SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
Wouldn't Jon alone represent both Ice and Fire in that theory?
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Lol. Every 10-20 pages someone comes in to bring this as if it was worldshocking news :D
Ahh, but only about every 50-60 pages does it comes with a side of broader "secret Targaryen" theory.
Which to be fair, the Tyrion one is newer...kinda. Mostly it is just a matter of collusion between that and his being on the almost non-existent list of nominees (as weak as they are) for third head.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
I like to think that the three heads of the dragon are Jon, Tyrion, and Dany. The three seemingly most important characters, the three most powerful houses in Westeros.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
Not enough hard evidence to point towards that, and if it is true, it's an incredibly stupid twist.
I like to think that the three heads of the dragon are Jon, Tyrion, and Dany. The three seemingly most important characters, the three most powerful houses in Westeros.
You can hardly say that those three are the "most important characters", and the Starks and Targaryens have no power in Westeros at all (at this point).
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
Wouldn't Jon alone represent both Ice and Fire in that theory?
Indeed, but of course there is the theory that Jon is actually the Azor Ahai reborn, not Stannis - that is why when Melisandre looks into the flames she only sees Jon Snow. One of the meisters also asks if Stannis' sword produces heat, like Azor Ahai's was meant to, but finds its only glows. Its quite conceivable that something could happen to Daenerys at some point in the next two books, and that Jon is the real 'hero' figure. But this is all speculation, I cannot wait for the next book!
On topic, last nights episode was good but Jeyne's death was really brutal and obviously not in the book, and also its 'Jamie Lannister sends his regards.' No idea why they changed it when the original phrase has many implications in the 'Lady Stoneheart' ark.
On June 05 2013 00:21 Broetchenholer wrote: WTF MAISIE! Don't make the fangirls hate you! They loved Robb so much!
YES MAISIE! DO make the fangirls hate you :D!
Makes me like her even more.
==
Regarding the Martells, I really don't think you can cut them out. Yeah they have had very little impact on the story thus far but you get the sense that they'll be instrumental later on given Arianne's current trajectory towards Aegon, possible fallout over Myrcella, and of course 5/8 of the sand snakes are off on some task of significance.
The whole Quentyn plot, however, doesn't seem like it will amount to much in the future. It was rather boring as well. They can probably lose him and his guards.
Greyjoys seem to be in a similar position. Victarion and Euron need to appear but I feel their stories can be trimmed down. Asha (or Yara -_-) is already in and doesn't do a whole lot as is, so she shouldn't be much of a problem to develop.
They can cut most of the Quentin and Aeron parts. The Aeron chapters are some of the most boring and pointless in the books. Otherwise, there's really no need to cut that much. Just enough so that books 4+5 are two seasons, even though book 5 is a little longer than book 3. Also, I'm guessing that one of the big battles that got pushed into book 6 will end up being episode 9 of the 6th season.
Assuming that GRRM finishes book 6 next year and it's big enough for 2 seasons, that gives him 4 years to finish book 7 without the show going ahead.
I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned.
Yep. I have a neat little theory about that:
Did any character die in their POV chapter? Afaik, no one.
Ned died in Arya's POV, iirc. Robb died in Cat's POV. Cat "died" in her own POV, but was resurrected. Brienne seemed to die in her own POV, but in the end lures Jamie into a trap, thus she somehow survived/was resurrected. Jon was stabbed/attacked in his own POV, so I bet he will survive/be resurrected by Melisandre/live through Ghost.
On June 05 2013 00:21 Broetchenholer wrote: WTF MAISIE! Don't make the fangirls hate you! They loved Robb so much!
YES MAISIE! DO make the fangirls hate you :D!
Makes me like her even more.
==
Regarding the Martells, I really don't think you can cut them out. Yeah they have had very little impact on the story thus far but you get the sense that they'll be instrumental later on given Arianne's current trajectory towards Aegon, possible fallout over Myrcella, and of course 5/8 of the sand snakes are off on some task of significance.
The whole Quentyn plot, however, doesn't seem like it will amount to much in the future. It was rather boring as well. They can probably lose him and his guards.
Greyjoys seem to be in a similar position. Victarion and Euron need to appear but I feel their stories can be trimmed down. Asha (or Yara -_-) is already in and doesn't do a whole lot as is, so she shouldn't be much of a problem to develop.
They can cut most of the Quentin and Aeron parts. The Aeron chapters are some of the most boring and pointless in the books. Otherwise, there's really no need to cut that much. Just enough so that books 4+5 are two seasons, even though book 5 is a little longer than book 3. Also, I'm guessing that one of the big battles that got pushed into book 6 will end up being episode 9 of the 6th season.
Assuming that GRRM finishes book 6 next year and it's big enough for 2 seasons, that gives him 4 years to finish book 7 without the show going ahead.
You're forgetting that the producers have already said that they're aiming for only 7 seasons, not 10-11 like you're saying.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
lol... Tyrion being a Targaryen makes tons of sense. There are plenty of hintbombs though out the story, especially in aDwD.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
lol... Tyrion being a Targaryen makes tons of sense. There are plenty of hintbombs though out the story, especially in aDwD.
Makes "tons" of sense? The only reason that it makes sense is because it doesn't directly contradict what is established. Just because it is theoretically possible doesn't mean it makes sense. It would be fucking God-awful writing if he turned out to be a Targaryen. It would be shoe-horning him into something that has nothing to do with the character's story up to this point.
If Tyrion is a Targaryen, Jon is a Targaryen and as Aegon VI/Little Griffon turned out to be a Targaryen, it would just be too much. Everyone and their mother would turn out to be a Targaryen...
The biggest argument of the Tyrion is a Targ theory is that Tywin keeps denying he is his son, from what I read. He also does the same to Jaime at least once and he also does treat Tyrion as his son in other ocasions. It really doesn't hold much ground. There are perfectly valid reasons for Tywin to despise Tyrion already.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
lol... Tyrion being a Targaryen makes tons of sense. There are plenty of hintbombs though out the story, especially in aDwD.
Makes "tons" of sense? The only way that it makes sense is because it doesn't directly contradict what is established. Just because it is theoretically possible doesn't mean it makes sense. It would be fucking God-awful writing if he turned out to be a Targaryen. It would be shoe-horning him into something that has nothing to do with the character's story up to this point.
How would it have nothing to do with his story? In the story he's said that he always felt like he was an outsider, shunned by his immediate family. He always imagined he was a lost Targaryen princeling riding off into the sunset on a dragon. His own father hated him and doesn't even believe he is his child but cannot prove it, so he is forced to allow him to carry the Lannister name and makes use of Tyrion, even if he does hate him. Red Wizards have stated that he will be right in the middle of all the action. There have been several instances that said that Tyrion is a little man that casts a HUGE shadow. On the wall, by Varys, and also by Moqorro. child of three There are three children in this series whose mothers have died during childbirth, two of which are front runners for Dragonriders. Coincidence? Well, we all know there are no coincidences in the world created by GRRM.
Tyrion being Tagaryen is by far one of the most farfetched theories in the book, and rather unbelievable. It seems more like something that Tyrion fans have concocted to make him more than he is. It's silly, because Tyrion is plenty already, without having a sudden "PLOT TWIST, Tyrion is secretly Dany's halfsister!" bullshit.
I saw a very recent interview in which both directors of the show were asked "How did it go when you met George the first time and how did you convince him?" And they basically said "Everything was very normal, he also asked us who Jon's mother is, and i think we got it right" So i actually think it's very likely that the theory about Jon Snow being half Targaryen is true.
I'll try to find a link to the video later if i have time.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
Wait, WHAT? That makes ZERO sense. How exactly would Tywin's wife getting raped on her wedding night lead to the birth of Tyrion the THIRD of Tywin's children? Or did people forget that Tyrion's birth led to the death of Tywin's wife?? Did Joanna birth Cersei and Jaimie from the grave then? What kind of monkey shit is this? It's not even theoretically possible.
On June 05 2013 03:41 Asol wrote: What about the theory that Jon is a Targaryen? His mom was Edds sister with Rhaegar being his father. He would've been conceived during the tournament that Rhaegar won. Edd was so incredibly dutiful / mindful of honour - it doesn't make sense that he would sire a bastard. Also there are 3 dragons, Aegon the conqueror had 3 drakes, 2 for his sisters and 1 for himself.
Daenerys has 3 dragons, 1 for herself and 2 for both of her brothers... Thus a song of Ice and Fire that Rhaegar mentioned, since Jon Targaryen would represent the Ice with Daenerys being the Fire. Together they could crush the White Walkers etc. Since Jon possibly died in the last book, if he's resurrected maybe he could be free of his oath to the Nights Watch?
A friend mentioned the theory about Tyrion also being a Targaryen, thoughts?
Jon being one is a pretty common theory nowadays. Tyrion being one makes no sense. Everyone and their mother knows exactly who his parents are; Tywin even hates Tyrion for "killing" his wife.
lol... Tyrion being a Targaryen makes tons of sense. There are plenty of hintbombs though out the story, especially in aDwD.
Makes "tons" of sense? The only way that it makes sense is because it doesn't directly contradict what is established. Just because it is theoretically possible doesn't mean it makes sense. It would be fucking God-awful writing if he turned out to be a Targaryen. It would be shoe-horning him into something that has nothing to do with the character's story up to this point.
How would it have nothing to do with his story? In the story he's said that he always felt like he was an outsider, shunned by his immediate family. He always imagined he was a lost Targaryen princeling riding off into the sunset on a dragon. His own father hated him and doesn't even believe he is his child but cannot prove it, so he is forced to allow him to carry the Lannister name and makes use of Tyrion, even if he does hate him. Red Wizards have stated that he will be right in the middle of all the action. There have been several instances that said that Tyrion is a little man that casts a HUGE shadow. On the wall, by Varys, and also by Moqorro. child of three There are three children in this series whose mothers have died during childbirth, two of which are front runners for Dragonriders. Coincidence? Well, we all know there are no coincidences in the world created by GRRM.
Basically it falls to: Tyrion will be one of the most important characters in the main conflict. The most important characters in the conflict must be Targs. Therefore Tyrion is a Targ.
It's completelly unnecessary if the main characters, dragon rides, etc. don't all have to be Targs, which they probally don't. There is basically nothing in the actual book that supports it, it's all about what people think should happen in the next books.
EPT
