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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
Zurich15361 Posts
On June 04 2013 22:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman, Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons. I don't see why they would cut either Dorne or the Greyjoys. Both are important enough (especially if this whole Targaryen plot from the Martells becomes more important in books 6 and 7). I think you guys are underestimating how much can be cut from books 4 and 5 to combine them into one season, especially if they get the green light for a couple more episodes (and fucking everyone and their mother is asking for more episodes per season already). Those books were pretty fucking dull, so I don't think it's impossible.
Maybe Greyjoys, as we don't know yet what is going to happen with Victarion.
Martells so far have been entirely useless. I mean the grand scheme of Doran was to keep peace with the Lannisters until Quentin can secure the dragons? This brilliant plan kind of failed when Quentin traveled over half the world only to get laughed at by Dany and then roasted by her dragons. GG great strat. At this point this entire story arc could just be cut without any impact on any of the other story lines.
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On June 04 2013 23:08 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 22:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman, Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons. I don't see why they would cut either Dorne or the Greyjoys. Both are important enough (especially if this whole Targaryen plot from the Martells becomes more important in books 6 and 7). I think you guys are underestimating how much can be cut from books 4 and 5 to combine them into one season, especially if they get the green light for a couple more episodes (and fucking everyone and their mother is asking for more episodes per season already). Those books were pretty fucking dull, so I don't think it's impossible. Maybe Greyjoys, as we don't know yet what is going to happen with Victarion. Martells so far have been entirely useless. I mean the grand scheme of Doran was to keep peace with the Lannisters until Quentin can secure the dragons? This brilliant plan kind of failed when Quentin traveled over half the world only to get laughed at by Dany and then roasted by her dragons. GG great strat. At this point this entire story arc could just be cut without any impact on any of the other story lines.
The only other thing I can think of is Myrcella, was she ever even introduced in the show?
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 04 2013 23:11 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:08 zatic wrote:On June 04 2013 22:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman, Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons. I don't see why they would cut either Dorne or the Greyjoys. Both are important enough (especially if this whole Targaryen plot from the Martells becomes more important in books 6 and 7). I think you guys are underestimating how much can be cut from books 4 and 5 to combine them into one season, especially if they get the green light for a couple more episodes (and fucking everyone and their mother is asking for more episodes per season already). Those books were pretty fucking dull, so I don't think it's impossible. Maybe Greyjoys, as we don't know yet what is going to happen with Victarion. Martells so far have been entirely useless. I mean the grand scheme of Doran was to keep peace with the Lannisters until Quentin can secure the dragons? This brilliant plan kind of failed when Quentin traveled over half the world only to get laughed at by Dany and then roasted by her dragons. GG great strat. At this point this entire story arc could just be cut without any impact on any of the other story lines. The only other thing I can think of is Myrcella, was she ever even introduced in the show?
Yeah but most viewers would only recognize her as part of Tyrion's little trick.
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On June 04 2013 23:11 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:08 zatic wrote:On June 04 2013 22:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman, Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons. I don't see why they would cut either Dorne or the Greyjoys. Both are important enough (especially if this whole Targaryen plot from the Martells becomes more important in books 6 and 7). I think you guys are underestimating how much can be cut from books 4 and 5 to combine them into one season, especially if they get the green light for a couple more episodes (and fucking everyone and their mother is asking for more episodes per season already). Those books were pretty fucking dull, so I don't think it's impossible. Maybe Greyjoys, as we don't know yet what is going to happen with Victarion. Martells so far have been entirely useless. I mean the grand scheme of Doran was to keep peace with the Lannisters until Quentin can secure the dragons? This brilliant plan kind of failed when Quentin traveled over half the world only to get laughed at by Dany and then roasted by her dragons. GG great strat. At this point this entire story arc could just be cut without any impact on any of the other story lines. The only other thing I can think of is Myrcella, was she ever even introduced in the show?
griffon should have to do with martell lore?
it's not only quentin but also his daughter Arianne who is supposed to marry Aegon. and the other sand vipers send to kings landing on their own mission
On June 04 2013 23:07 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:01 Yhamm wrote:On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra. I don't think anyone died while in its own POV (Brienne, Arya, etc), only when witnessed by someone else Cat died in her own POV chapter.
also: Brienne was hung in her own POV.
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France7248 Posts
On June 04 2013 23:07 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:01 Yhamm wrote:On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra. I don't think anyone died while in its own POV (Brienne, Arya, etc), only when witnessed by someone else Cat died in her own POV chapter.
but she is back 
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Zurich15361 Posts
I mean even in the books the Martells are useless. Literally the only thing they do (so far) to impact the rest of the story is cut off Myrcellas ear. If that was still on she could just return and everyone could forget about the sand people down South.
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I really expect they will do something meaningfull in the later books. It really makes little sense to introduce all of them just to roast one prince and cut off an ear. It will probally be related to Faegon's invasion.
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On June 04 2013 23:19 SKC wrote:
I really expect they will do something meaningfull in the later books. It really makes little sense to introduce all of them just to roast one prince and cut off an ear. It will probally be related to Faegon's invasion.
They're obviously going to be Aegon and/or Dany's supporters during the next war (or "war" if Dany can control her Dragons), but in the show they don't really need to be characters to do that. They can just say "oh and Dany/Aegon are gathering supporters in Dorne who we've always had tenuous relationships with" and leave it at that.
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On June 04 2013 23:21 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:19 SKC wrote:
I really expect they will do something meaningfull in the later books. It really makes little sense to introduce all of them just to roast one prince and cut off an ear. It will probally be related to Faegon's invasion. They're obviously going to be Aegon and/or Dany's supporters during the next war (or "war" if Dany can control her Dragons), but in the show they don't really need to be characters to do that. They can just say "oh and Dany/Aegon are gathering supporters in Dorne who we've always had tenuous relationships with" and leave it at that.
That depends if they will be unnamed footsoldiers or if they will actually be important characters in the war. The whole Sand Snakes deal can be reasonably big if Martin wants it to be.
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On June 04 2013 23:17 zatic wrote:
I mean even in the books the Martells are useless. Literally the only thing they do (so far) to impact the rest of the story is cut off Myrcellas ear. If that was still on she could just return and everyone could forget about the ragheads down South.
TWOW:
+ Show Spoiler +TWOW preview Arianne chapters reveal a clear road to higher influence for Dorne with a possible marriage between Aegon VI/Blackfyre and Arianne.
Other than that, they at least have to include Oberyn+paramour. The history of Dorne/allegiance to Targ/rivalry with Tyrell and their connected words need to be explained too. Plus Dornish culture is very different from Westerosi culture, which will be nice to see. And there are various passages that I would really like to see on screen. (Vengeance, justice, fire and blood.// I am not blind, nor deaf. I know that you all believe me weak, frightened, feeble. Your father knew me better. Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, Dangerous, Unpredictable. No man dared tread on him. I was the grass. Pleasant, complaisant, sweet-smelling, swaying with every breeze. Who fears to walk upon the grass? But it is the grass that hides the viper from his enemies and shelters him until he strikes. Your father and I worked more closely then you know.......)
Plus Sand Snakes can be influential in TWOW (with Tyene and Nymeria in KL for the Faith and the Small Council, Sarella possibly in Oldtown and Obara hunting Darkstar, I can't see all of those storylines coming to a halt.
I do think that in ADWD the Dornish have a bit too much emphasis, but I don't think they can be cut. Same goes for Greyjoys.
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On June 04 2013 22:56 zatic wrote:
I think my question was less if it was actually the Gods punishing them directly. I mean not even the Lord of Light does intervene directly, presumed he exists.
More like, will people in Westeros a generation from now point at the Freys for an example of a house that had angered the Gods by violating guest right, and as a result had many of their sons and grandsons getting killed.
I got the impression from reading that the Freys will be haunted forever from breaking the sacred guest right and I think it will end with the destruction of the Frey House. We will see in Winds of Winter.
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On June 04 2013 23:21 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:19 SKC wrote:
I really expect they will do something meaningfull in the later books. It really makes little sense to introduce all of them just to roast one prince and cut off an ear. It will probally be related to Faegon's invasion. They're obviously going to be Aegon and/or Dany's supporters during the next war (or "war" if Dany can control her Dragons), but in the show they don't really need to be characters to do that. They can just say "oh and Dany/Aegon are gathering supporters in Dorne who we've always had tenuous relationships with" and leave it at that.
While I think it's a pragmatic possibility, I think that would piss off so many book readers so hard that it's one of the things they won't do, lol.
FFFFFFF Let me expand on that
I think it's one of those things that that they will have to adapt a bit at the very least because of how much time GRRM has spent making those characters and because he says D&D respect his creation and such -- of course I could be wrong but yeah. I'm still slightly upset there wasn't a Bear vs. Amory Lorch scene, but that ship sailed in season 2, along with the house of the undying
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On June 04 2013 23:38 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 23:21 Requizen wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 SKC wrote:
I really expect they will do something meaningfull in the later books. It really makes little sense to introduce all of them just to roast one prince and cut off an ear. It will probally be related to Faegon's invasion. They're obviously going to be Aegon and/or Dany's supporters during the next war (or "war" if Dany can control her Dragons), but in the show they don't really need to be characters to do that. They can just say "oh and Dany/Aegon are gathering supporters in Dorne who we've always had tenuous relationships with" and leave it at that. While I think it's a pragmatic possibility, I think that would piss off so many book readers so hard that it's one of the things they won't do, lol. FFFFFFF Let me expand on that I think it's one of those things that that they will have to adapt a bit at the very least because of how much time GRRM has spent making those characters and because he says D&D respect his creation and such -- of course I could be wrong but yeah. I'm still slightly upset there wasn't a Bear vs. Amory Lorch scene, but that ship sailed in season 2, along with the house of the undying
House of the Undying was there, it was just dumb and different, like everything else of Dany in S2.
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WTF MAISIE! Don't make the fangirls hate you! They loved Robb so much!
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LOL, arya is such a troll :D
on a similar note, i wonder how long michelle fairly has to pretend that she's dead
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On June 05 2013 00:21 Broetchenholer wrote:
WTF MAISIE! Don't make the fangirls hate you! They loved Robb so much!
YES MAISIE! DO make the fangirls hate you :D!
Makes me like her even more.
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Regarding the Martells, I really don't think you can cut them out. Yeah they have had very little impact on the story thus far but you get the sense that they'll be instrumental later on given Arianne's current trajectory towards Aegon, possible fallout over Myrcella, and of course 5/8 of the sand snakes are off on some task of significance.
The whole Quentyn plot, however, doesn't seem like it will amount to much in the future. It was rather boring as well. They can probably lose him and his guards.
Greyjoys seem to be in a similar position. Victarion and Euron need to appear but I feel their stories can be trimmed down. Asha (or Yara -_-) is already in and doesn't do a whole lot as is, so she shouldn't be much of a problem to develop.
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I think Pate, Varamyr, Kevan, Quentyn (kinda, dies days later), Merrett and Maester Cressen all die in their POV chapters
Arya, Asha, Brienne, Tyrion, Jaime, Catelyn, Davos, Ned and few others had their share of "fake deaths"
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France7248 Posts
On June 05 2013 01:07 Zozo wrote:
I think Pate, Varamyr, Kevan, Quentyn (kinda, dies days later), Merrett and Maester Cressen all die in their POV chapters
Pate, Varamyr, Merret & Cressen are all Prologue
Kevan didn't die in his Prologue, so he had to die anyway 
I think they are different, not "real" POV
Quentyn as you say doesn't really die in his POV but we witness his death with Barristan's POV
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EPT
