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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 04 2013 13:04 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Well... I think the show portrays Cersei as a huge bitch pretty well. I will get pissed when the show will try to turn her to a likable character after season 5 (book 4 and 5). There seems to be readers that have sympathy for her, but one thing I know is I never will.
I, for one, would really like to see Cersei survive entire series in some at least half-decent condition. Woudln't mind 'happily ever after with Jaimie' too. But out of the list of impossible things to happen...
As far as RW is concerned there were two images that fell deep in my mind, that were omitted in the show. One has been pointed out here numerous times - drunk Greatjon fighting wit ha bench. The other, which would be difficult to depict but I am surprised noone brought it up - Cat remembering how much Ned loved her hair when they drag them to slit her throat.
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman,Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons.
They're kinda like Sauron and the witch king. Interestingly enough even their names.
And yeah he's a madman but that's the cool thing. Joffrey's a madman too but he's a pussy. Euron is a fucking badass about it.
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On June 04 2013 13:04 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Well... I think the show portrays Cersei as a huge bitch pretty well. I will get pissed when the show will try to turn her to a likable character after season 5 (book 4 and 5). There seems to be readers that have sympathy for her, but one thing I know is I never will.
I don't think the last 2 books made Cersei any more sympathetic, if anything once we got her POVs she turned out to be even more obnoxious than I though. Unless they rewrite her character there's little chance of her becoming a likable one.
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 04 2013 20:05 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 13:04 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Well... I think the show portrays Cersei as a huge bitch pretty well. I will get pissed when the show will try to turn her to a likable character after season 5 (book 4 and 5). There seems to be readers that have sympathy for her, but one thing I know is I never will. I don't think the last 2 books made Cersei any more sympathetic, if anything once we got her POVs she turned out to be even more obnoxious than I though. Unless they rewrite her character there's little chance of her becoming a likable one.
Agreed and they shouldn't do that. I mean, they might slowly run out of characters for viewers to sympathize with as much as they do with say Jon, Robb or Catelyn but Cersei is definitely not the right character to change in order to fill that hole.
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On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect?
You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that.
Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet.
But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it.
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On June 04 2013 20:05 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 13:04 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Well... I think the show portrays Cersei as a huge bitch pretty well. I will get pissed when the show will try to turn her to a likable character after season 5 (book 4 and 5). There seems to be readers that have sympathy for her, but one thing I know is I never will. I don't think the last 2 books made Cersei any more sympathetic, if anything once we got her POVs she turned out to be even more obnoxious than I though. Unless they rewrite her character there's little chance of her becoming a likable one.
hell, not only did she grow more annoying somehow, but we also came to realize just how utterly incompetent she is.
as for likeable characters - we still have motherfucking Davos
On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it.
I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned.
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On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned.
More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra.
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On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra.
Starting with Bran & Rickon, actually. 
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On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra.
not quite how I feel. I dunno about the english version, but in the hebrew translation it was pretty clear that Sandor hit Arya with the bluntside of his axe, so no fakeout there.
Jon 'died', but he'll come back to life via...well, red priestess powers/white walker jon/cosmic powers/what the fuck ever. It's also a loophole to get out of his 'black till I die' vow.
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Zurich15365 Posts
Question: Is it fair to say that after the RW the gods do punish the Freys for breaking the sacred guest right? If I remember correctly they start dying like flies after. Granted there is a lot of them, but I remember lots of them being killed later. Brotherhood gets a few, Manderly bakes them into pies, later they get dropped one by one in Winterfell, and at the very end they are sent into a Stannis / North tribe trap.
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not so much as 'the gods are after them' rather than Catelyn starts hunting them, and the rest of the North have wide contempt for them.
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On June 04 2013 21:01 zatic wrote:
Question: Is it fair to say that after the RW the gods do punish the Freys for breaking the sacred guest right? If I remember correctly they start dying like flies after. Granted there is a lot of them, but I remember lots of them being killed later. Brotherhood gets a few, Manderly bakes them into pies, later they get dropped one by one in Winterfell, and at the very end they are sent into a Stannis / North tribe trap.
Meh, I'd just call it revenge from people who have very good motives to do so. Then again Catelyn was brought back by the red god.
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On June 04 2013 21:01 zatic wrote:
Question: Is it fair to say that after the RW the gods do punish the Freys for breaking the sacred guest right? If I remember correctly they start dying like flies after. Granted there is a lot of them, but I remember lots of them being killed later. Brotherhood gets a few, Manderly bakes them into pies, later they get dropped one by one in Winterfell, and at the very end they are sent into a Stannis / North tribe trap.
I wouldn't say the Gods are behind it. The people in the North (and the rest of the Seven kingdoms for that matter) hold guest right sacred, so people who violate it are ridiculed and disgraced. After all, the north remembers and noone likes an oathbreaker/kin(g)slayer. Plus the Northerners are far less afraid of the Freys than the Boltons, which isn't surprising at all. The Freys do not excel at combat or cruelty.
Watched the episode last night with my friend, dayum. I wasn't prepared for the belly stabbing, fucking Lame Lothar. It was very well executed.
Now for E10: What will we see? Will there be a Lady Stoneheart? I think what we are guaranteed to see from the trailer are the Stark encampment and troops burning, the news from the Twins arriving at KL with Tyrion bringing the news to Sansa (my gut is already churning, poor girl), Bran Co.+Sam Co. arriving at Nightfort (and a story, maybe Rat Cook or Night's King?), Stannis getting advice from Davos/Mel, Joffrey getting his sharp lesson from Tywin and Jaime arriving at KL, Arya fucking Polliver(?) up and something with the dragons.
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On June 04 2013 19:21 PredY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 18:24 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Wait, doesn't Joffrey bite the dust next episode? Since they showed the scene with Stannis' three wishes I'm assuming we're gonna see both Joff and Balon die in the season finale. no, joffrey's wedding is gonna happen in first half of season 4 i assume
I'm convinced Joffrey's death will happen as the finale for season 3. There's been a lot of screen time surrounding Joffrey's wedding this season and it would fit right into the story. Also everyone who's completely heartbroken over the red wedding HAS to at least watch the finale before they decide if they want to give up forever, and nothing will be more satisfying than watching that little bitch die.
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Zurich15365 Posts
I think my question was less if it was actually the Gods punishing them directly. I mean not even the Lord of Light does intervene directly, presumed he exists.
More like, will people in Westeros a generation from now point at the Freys for an example of a house that had angered the Gods by violating guest right, and as a result had many of their sons and grandsons getting killed.
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On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman, Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons.
I don't see why they would cut either Dorne or the Greyjoys. Both are important enough (especially if this whole Targaryen plot from the Martells becomes more important in books 6 and 7).
I think you guys are underestimating how much can be cut from books 4 and 5 to combine them into one season, especially if they get the green light for a couple more episodes (and fucking everyone and their mother is asking for more episodes per season already). Those books were pretty fucking dull, so I don't think it's impossible.
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France7248 Posts
On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra.
I don't think anyone died while in its own POV (Brienne, Arya, etc), only when witnessed by someone else
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On June 04 2013 22:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 19:47 Bagi wrote:On June 04 2013 18:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 04 2013 17:48 Chocobo wrote:On June 04 2013 17:20 teapot wrote:
Especially as AFFC is a plodding bore.
Really, that Brienne "arc". haha. ADWD wasn't much better for me. I suppose it isn't impossible for them to combine books 4 and 5 into a single season... there is a LOT of fat to be trimmed, and a lot of multiple-chapter tasks that could be noticeably shortened. The time spent in Dorne could be kept to a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned they can write the rest of the Greyjoys out of the show.But I do think the simple length of the books will still necessitate a full season each, even when condensed. Another idea - perhaps season 4 can complete book 3 and take us into book 4... then season 5 finishes the rest of books 4 and 5. That might work out nicely for TV. Are you insane?! I've been looking forward to Euron ever since they announced the damn thing. Euron is the most badass motherfucker, we need him so badly to balance out all the boring Dani scenes to come. Euron is just a madman, Victarion however is pure badass. Anyway I think they are more likely to cut Dorne instead of the Greyjoys considering how the Greyjoys might play a huge part in controlling the dragons. I don't see why they would cut either Dorne or the Greyjoys. Both are important enough (especially if this whole Targaryen plot from the Martells becomes more important in books 6 and 7). I think you guys are underestimating how much can be cut from books 4 and 5 to combine them into one season, especially if they get the green light for a couple more episodes (and fucking everyone and their mother is asking for more episodes per season already). Those books were pretty fucking dull, so I don't think it's impossible.
If Dorne and the Greyjoys get cut, it's not going to be to smooth the plot, it's going to be because show watchers are incapable of keeping that many characters straight. The most common complaint about the show isn't the pacing or plot, it's the number of characters and that people forget them. That's why Loras is basically all of his brothers in one, and why we didn't get a huge number of people in BwB, Brave Companions, the Mountain's Men, etc. Dorne and the Greyjoys are a shit ton of side characters waiting to be forgotten. We'll likely get the Red Viper and Doran, then Euron and Victarion.
In fact, we might not even see Balon's death until they reintroduce him and Asha (who's been absent) and introduce Euron and Victarion, since most show viewers would have forgotten them.
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 04 2013 23:01 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra. I don't think anyone died while in its own POV (Brienne, Arya, etc), only when witnessed by someone else
Catelyn did.
Oh fake deaths you mean.
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On June 04 2013 23:01 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 20:52 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 20:42 hooahah wrote:On June 04 2013 20:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 04 2013 18:16 Chrispy wrote:On June 04 2013 16:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:I'm getting closer to the RW in my reread and I've come to a conclusion. If Robb, Catelyn, Theon, or Edmure hadn't fucked up so hard, just one of them, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. ~Robb breaking his betrothal. No chance Walder Frey would have gone through with it without this condition. ~Catelyn freeing the Kingslayer, leading to the Karstark treason and desertion. Tywin wouldn't want to risk Jaime either. ~Theon sacking Winterfell and leading the realm to believe Bran/Rickon dead. Huge loss of legitimacy to their cause in addition to potential bargaining chips for Frey negotiations that could have stayed "Late" Walder's hand. ~Edmure stopping Tywin from marching west. Each one of these fuck-ups contributed to the conditions necessary for the Lannister/Frey/Bolton plot to go through. The worst part about it is how much had to go wrong for it to happen the way it did. If they just had a little better luck and any one of those four scenarios didn't go wrong, the Red Wedding probably wouldn't have happened. It's just so fucking sad still.. + Show Spoiler +Also, on a side note, if they had been more like Stannis, they wouldn't have made those mistakes.
~Stannis wouldn't break the betrothal.
~Stannis wouldn't commit treason and free a prisoner of war.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king (by taking Winterfell, Theon disobeyed Balon). Not to mention Stannis isn't militarily incompetent.
~Stannis wouldn't disobey his king again. And again, Stannis isn't militarily incompetent. Stannis is the best and the true king of Westeros! And yeah, Robb really did fuck up hard but not quite as bad as Jon Snow did. When Snow got iced I was like, well bud what'd you expect? You ignored Melisandre's visions, Jon. Don't do that. Well, then there's the theories of how his death is only temporary, for he is the Prince that was Promised. But we'll see for ourselves come Winds of Winter. It's doubtful for me given his arc isn't quite complete yet. But yes, go team Stannis. The TV series has in general portrayed him in a comparatively more unsympathetic light (as there isn't as much room to develop him), but I have faith Season 4 will make up for it. I don't believe Jon is dead even for a split second. There's way too much plot riding on him, it's not like Robb/Ned. More or less. GRRM has been doing the fakedeath chapter closings far too often by now, starting with Ayra. I don't think anyone died while in its own POV (Brienne, Arya, etc), only when witnessed by someone else
Cat died in her own POV chapter.
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EPT
