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On May 05 2019 02:17 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:00 Orome wrote:On May 05 2019 01:36 babysimba wrote:On May 05 2019 01:31 Orome wrote:On May 05 2019 01:24 babysimba wrote:
Maybe did took a short break.
LGD is still theoretically the best team currently just like in TI8. Hopefully they can get a TI this year. FY and Maybe deserve it so much. I've supported LGD ever since they formed and fully agree they're the most impressive fundamentally, but I think it's a bit iffy to call them the best in the world when they've repeatedly gotten out-adapted when it matters most. Err... they were in consecutive finals during this period last year when there were patches every 2 weeks. Every other teams were struggling. Adaptability is the least of their concern. They come to every tournament prepared, that's never been their problem. The problem's always been maintaining their usual UB domination until the end of the tournament. Teams like Secret/Liquid/OG tend to do more adapting during tournaments and LGD has a tendency to fall apart when their preferred style of play for the tournament stops working for them. Again though I haven't watched dota in a bit, so maybe that's changed these days, idk. LGD changed their playstyle totally from group stages to playoffs in TI. OG played the same way entire tournament. LGD didn't lose because of strategy. They lost because of tactical mistakes. To put it badly, Ame threw 3 crucial games against OG including 1 in winners finals. It was probably due to stamina issues during the actual finals, but it was their fault to throw winners finals to begin with.
I disagree, but I'm sure we can both live with that.
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On May 05 2019 02:40 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:17 Pandemona wrote:Oh no Naga Siren, Bulba god don't do this to me xd On May 05 2019 02:17 PoulsenB wrote:
RTZ Naga <3 The old Rtc Naga sure, radiance manta lets go, but the new Naga is even worse to watch xd (as that naga playstyle is still bad to watch, but rtc is rtc ofc) Complexity draft looks good again to me, so much push its crazy. Radiance sucks on Naga and Illusion heroes in general, and Naga is changed, pretty much nobody plays her like that anymore for a reason. She is not the godlike split-pusher she once was, they pretty much go mass stats and fight, she is closer to CK/PL right now. Yes that is what i posted, rtc naga when it was radiance manta days woo woo, but now its build stats and go which is boring to me.
How is diffusal + stats fighting Naga style more boring than Naga that spends 90% of the game in jungle while pushing 3 lanes with immortal Illusions that last forever? What the actual fuck.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On May 05 2019 02:42 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:40 Pandemona wrote:On May 05 2019 02:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:17 Pandemona wrote:Oh no Naga Siren, Bulba god don't do this to me xd On May 05 2019 02:17 PoulsenB wrote:
RTZ Naga <3 The old Rtc Naga sure, radiance manta lets go, but the new Naga is even worse to watch xd (as that naga playstyle is still bad to watch, but rtc is rtc ofc) Complexity draft looks good again to me, so much push its crazy. Radiance sucks on Naga and Illusion heroes in general, and Naga is changed, pretty much nobody plays her like that anymore for a reason. She is not the godlike split-pusher she once was, they pretty much go mass stats and fight, she is closer to CK/PL right now. Yes that is what i posted, rtc naga when it was radiance manta days woo woo, but now its build stats and go which is boring to me. How is diffusal + stats fighting Naga style more boring than Naga that spends 90% of the game in jungle while pushing 3 lanes with immortal Illusions that last forever? What the actual fuck.
Because its a run at them hero, get stat items, run at enemy and rng on the rip tide animation. You dont press much, u can trap people but i mean it just aint fun for me. Playing as well, i prefer boots of travel radiance manta all day xd Just me.
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On May 05 2019 02:42 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:40 Pandemona wrote:On May 05 2019 02:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:17 Pandemona wrote:Oh no Naga Siren, Bulba god don't do this to me xd On May 05 2019 02:17 PoulsenB wrote:
RTZ Naga <3 The old Rtc Naga sure, radiance manta lets go, but the new Naga is even worse to watch xd (as that naga playstyle is still bad to watch, but rtc is rtc ofc) Complexity draft looks good again to me, so much push its crazy. Radiance sucks on Naga and Illusion heroes in general, and Naga is changed, pretty much nobody plays her like that anymore for a reason. She is not the godlike split-pusher she once was, they pretty much go mass stats and fight, she is closer to CK/PL right now. Yes that is what i posted, rtc naga when it was radiance manta days woo woo, but now its build stats and go which is boring to me. How is diffusal + stats fighting Naga style more boring than Naga that spends 90% of the game in jungle while pushing 3 lanes with immortal Illusions that last forever? What the actual fuck.
You have to admit there was a certain elegance to Meracle naga. That one game vs DK was a thing of beauty.
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On May 05 2019 02:50 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:42 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:40 Pandemona wrote:On May 05 2019 02:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:17 Pandemona wrote:Oh no Naga Siren, Bulba god don't do this to me xd On May 05 2019 02:17 PoulsenB wrote:
RTZ Naga <3 The old Rtc Naga sure, radiance manta lets go, but the new Naga is even worse to watch xd (as that naga playstyle is still bad to watch, but rtc is rtc ofc) Complexity draft looks good again to me, so much push its crazy. Radiance sucks on Naga and Illusion heroes in general, and Naga is changed, pretty much nobody plays her like that anymore for a reason. She is not the godlike split-pusher she once was, they pretty much go mass stats and fight, she is closer to CK/PL right now. Yes that is what i posted, rtc naga when it was radiance manta days woo woo, but now its build stats and go which is boring to me. How is diffusal + stats fighting Naga style more boring than Naga that spends 90% of the game in jungle while pushing 3 lanes with immortal Illusions that last forever? What the actual fuck. You have to admit there was a certain elegance to Meracle naga. That one game vs DK was a thing of beauty.
I mean from playing perspective old Naga definitely required more micro-management, but from viewer perspective I generally dislike illusion split-pushers so I can't call it more interesting than the current one.
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On May 05 2019 02:48 VGhost wrote:
coL is looking terrible.
As they have been ever since Kyle left. People can talk crap all they want, but when Kyle and Moo were in CoL, they were actually fighting for the second best NA team together with Forward Gaming, and were really solid tier 2, taking games off some good tier 1 teams. Nowadays they look like random NA pub stack.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Yeah doing illusion push every game like a certain team did...was boring and awful to watch and im glad it got nerfed.
Oh well, EG crushed the Cowboys! EG vs OG, offft. Lets go
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Illusions just changed from burning creeps and heroes from a foot away to sticking on to them and procing rip tide. Core gameplay of naga didn't really change except she can fight better with tankier stats and higher dps. Also much stronger in killing towers.
It's still 1 boring ass hero to spectate as long as that bullshit ultimate sleep still exists.
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Col got squished in this series, good stuff from EG 
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On May 05 2019 02:56 babysimba wrote:
Illusions just changed from burning creeps and heroes from a foot away to sticking on to them and procing rip tide. Core gameplay of naga didn't really change except she can fight better with tankier stats and higher dps. Also much stronger in killing towers.
It's still 1 boring ass hero to spectate as long as that bullshit ultimate sleep still exists.
But it did change, instead of splitting illusions all over the map and using Riptide, you just click one hero with like 3-4 of them and do nothing with yours. Of course you can always micro your illusions and do more, but generally the skill required to play Naga successfully went down.
I agree about the ult, it should've been changed long time ago to be more initiation friendly instead of get-out-of-jail-free-card.
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EG vs OG next, the "Fly vs Notail" crowd is going to be unbearable xD
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:07 PoulsenB wrote:
EG vs OG next, the "Fly vs Notail" crowd is going to be unbearable xD
The crowd of Minnie and Mickey Mouse? xD isn't any crowd yet i thought
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On May 05 2019 03:08 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 03:07 PoulsenB wrote:
EG vs OG next, the "Fly vs Notail" crowd is going to be unbearable xD The crowd of Minnie and Mickey Mouse? xD isn't any crowd yet i thought
I mean reddit and twitch chat lmao
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OG vs EG, let the drama begin
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On May 05 2019 02:45 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:42 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:40 Pandemona wrote:On May 05 2019 02:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:17 Pandemona wrote:Oh no Naga Siren, Bulba god don't do this to me xd On May 05 2019 02:17 PoulsenB wrote:
RTZ Naga <3 The old Rtc Naga sure, radiance manta lets go, but the new Naga is even worse to watch xd (as that naga playstyle is still bad to watch, but rtc is rtc ofc) Complexity draft looks good again to me, so much push its crazy. Radiance sucks on Naga and Illusion heroes in general, and Naga is changed, pretty much nobody plays her like that anymore for a reason. She is not the godlike split-pusher she once was, they pretty much go mass stats and fight, she is closer to CK/PL right now. Yes that is what i posted, rtc naga when it was radiance manta days woo woo, but now its build stats and go which is boring to me. How is diffusal + stats fighting Naga style more boring than Naga that spends 90% of the game in jungle while pushing 3 lanes with immortal Illusions that last forever? What the actual fuck. Because its a run at them hero, get stat items, run at enemy and rng on the rip tide animation. You dont press much, u can trap people but i mean it just aint fun for me. Playing as well, i prefer boots of travel radiance manta all day xd Just me.
don't see much logic in this, sorry. you'd prefer a hero that farms most of the way to minute 30 with an occasional R press, than a hero that can actually walk into the jungle and do something meaningful?
for discussion on the naga itself
i've looked into the hero before this tournament, especially with RTZ playing the hero in practice.
there is no faster carry hero right now both in farming and item timing.
it has flexible item timings after the initial 3x wraith band + manta. you can do diffusal vs medusa, you can go straight for bfly + skadi, you can skip bfly and build stats.
it does meepo levels of damage without the inherent downside.
it is one of the hardest counters to medusa from 20-30m and can win mid vs it.
it is basically a better spectre in some situations.
it allows a support (which in case the meta revolves around str-building supports with impact at 6) to take a lane at minute 5 while a level 4-5 naga with no levels in net goes to farm jungle. it farms at TB speeds with more reliability.
it is very mana efficient in doing so because of the cost of first skill being offset by natural regen and stats.
in the hands of a very efficient naga specialist, it is a very good hero and that's why we're seeing it picked starting day 1 of the event. otherwise it's not a good hero and i'd say only a small fraction of the pros can use it well currently.
i've played a heavy share of the old naga and i have to say this version of the hero is much harder to pull off correctly.
i'm not saying it's inherently hard, i am saying the potential is very high.
one of you is saying it's not difficult and you click 3/4 illusions on a hero. i disagree. you need to do more with your illusions to achieve the same effect as the old build with radiance.
if you want to cancel blink initiation, you have to preposition, control the illusions seperately, (typically two sets) and keep tabs on timers (lest downtime). because you have to constantly create illusions to farm, you also have to ship regen or use shrines often too. there is a lot of map movement in the new naga skillset that you didn't have to do previously.
there are just these tiny little nuances that most players won't pick up on. for example the illusions last ~25 with a 5s downtime. there are breakpoints (stats) at guaranteeing waves and jungle die before they run out all dependant on where you produce the illusions and how much time they spent walking there. with specific items you need to meet the wave ~70% @:50s to their base and wait a couple seconds before producing the illusions on top of the wave. doing so means you catch both spawns and etc.
all in all -it is- a very strong hero in the right hands, and i'm glad rtz is here to showcase that as i think he is probably the best player and one of the only players who can do so atm.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:17 nanaoei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2019 02:45 Pandemona wrote:On May 05 2019 02:42 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:40 Pandemona wrote:On May 05 2019 02:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 05 2019 02:17 Pandemona wrote:Oh no Naga Siren, Bulba god don't do this to me xd On May 05 2019 02:17 PoulsenB wrote:
RTZ Naga <3 The old Rtc Naga sure, radiance manta lets go, but the new Naga is even worse to watch xd (as that naga playstyle is still bad to watch, but rtc is rtc ofc) Complexity draft looks good again to me, so much push its crazy. Radiance sucks on Naga and Illusion heroes in general, and Naga is changed, pretty much nobody plays her like that anymore for a reason. She is not the godlike split-pusher she once was, they pretty much go mass stats and fight, she is closer to CK/PL right now. Yes that is what i posted, rtc naga when it was radiance manta days woo woo, but now its build stats and go which is boring to me. How is diffusal + stats fighting Naga style more boring than Naga that spends 90% of the game in jungle while pushing 3 lanes with immortal Illusions that last forever? What the actual fuck. Because its a run at them hero, get stat items, run at enemy and rng on the rip tide animation. You dont press much, u can trap people but i mean it just aint fun for me. Playing as well, i prefer boots of travel radiance manta all day xd Just me. don't see much logic in this, sorry. you'd prefer a hero that farms most of the way to minute 30 with an occasional R press, than a hero that can actually walk into the jungle and do something meaningful? for discussion on the naga itself i've looked into the hero before this tournament, especially with RTZ playing the hero in practice. there is no faster carry hero right now both in farming and item timing. it has flexible item timings after the initial 3x wraith band + manta. you can do diffusal vs medusa, you can go straight for bfly + skadi, you can skip bfly and build stats. it does meepo levels of damage without the inherent downside. it is one of the hardest counters to medusa from 20-30m and can win mid vs it. it is basically a better spectre in some situations. it allows a support (which in case the meta revolves around str-building supports with impact at 6) to take a lane at minute 5 while a level 4-5 naga with no levels in net goes to farm jungle. it farms at TB speeds with more reliability. it is very mana efficient in doing so because of the cost of first skill being offset by natural regen and stats. in the hands of a very efficient naga specialist, it is a very good hero and that's why we're seeing it picked starting day 1 of the event. otherwise it's not a good hero and i'd say only a small fraction of the pros can use it well currently. i've played a heavy share of the old naga and i have to say this version of the hero is much harder to pull off correctly. i'm not saying it's inherently hard, i am saying the potential is very high. there are just these tiny little nuances that most players won't pick up on. for example the illusions last ~25 with a 5s downtime. there are breakpoints (stats) at guaranteeing waves and jungle die before they run out all dependant on where you produce the illusions and how much time they spent walking there. with specific items you need to meet the wave ~70% @:50s to their base and wait a couple seconds before producing the illusions on top of the wave. doing so means you catch both spawns and etc.
Doesn't need to be logic when its an opinion does it? I prefer to play radiance manta naga and prefer to wtch Rtc on radiance manta naga. There is no right or wrong in this situation, i can be outweighted but its like football. Some people can watch a team park the bus and counter some call it anti football, but is no "rule set" on how you should play the game etc, just opinions :D
Sorry my opinion upset you though xd
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On May 05 2019 03:07 PoulsenB wrote:
EG vs OG next, the "Fly vs Notail" crowd is going to be unbearable xD
Little drama is fun. And the drama isn't too far behind the timeline as OG only won last year. The entire "we won so were right" thing that ceb said was just this year as well as crit's shouldbump wasn't too far off.
Well maybe there isn't really drama anymore but honestly VG vs LGD face alot which we usually know the results and EG vs OG never really face each other this season. OG is on the rise and EG is a pretty good team. Besides this is OG's first real test as their roster reshuffle back to the original members
So overall EG vs OG is the hyped matchup. So it is more really that VG vs LGD is more or less predictable and not as exciting as the other matchup
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On May 05 2019 02:58 PoulsenB wrote:Col got squished in this series, good stuff from EG
Good thing EG is going to get smashed next game then.
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EPT
