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While Fnatic & Vega should be favorites, it's also Day 1 of a new patch. Insanity can always happen.
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Is this part of Valves plan to make new patches in every tournaments. Maybe they can make next patches in break in finale after matche 2, just to see how adaptable players are.
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On April 13 2018 17:10 Sapaio wrote: Is this part of Valves plan to make new patches in every tournaments. Maybe they can make next patches in break in finale after matche 2, just to see how adaptable players are.
There's a bit of that, haha.
Though, realistically, in-tournament Metas move so fast, a patch barely matters.
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In unrelated news, it's good to see Sheever's hair finally starting to grow back after the Chemo. It's going to be a while before the original color returns, but it's still good to see she's recovering. The hair growth is one of the outward signs of it.
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I missed the draft. Did Dendi drafted again? Or did they finally change it?
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On April 13 2018 18:20 Racket wrote: I missed the draft. Did Dendi drafted again? Or did they finally change it?
They huddle around Dendi still, so yes?
I think the issue is more telling people "no" even if it's a comfort pick. Nahaz, oddly enough, brought up a point I made about FTM (though he mentioned Kinguin) where you go for a comfort pick over the optimal pick.
Though I'm less against the Lifestealer than the panel is. If you can get LS to the "High Damage Doom" phase, he can 1 vs 1 TB. Someone needs to build Halbred, though.
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The fat Kunkka is going to be a bigger worry for Na'Vi.
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12 min in, the pity clap for killing a 5 position support with a Roar.
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Fnatic might be farming too much.
Edit: General has the right idea to split-pushing, though the rest of the team should be rotating to get kills.
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Na`Vi is playing like they have no clue what their game plan is... not sure what to say, they have Disruptor, ET, Lina and Beastmaster and they are not getting any kills.
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On April 13 2018 18:48 Ramiz1989 wrote: Na`Vi is playing like they have no clue what their game plan is... not sure what to say, they have Disruptor, ET, Lina and Beastmaster and they are not getting any kills.
Agreed. They should be split-pushing and running gank squads into the jungle.
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Fnatic hasn't been splitting up that much to give NaVi upportunities from what I've seen. Fnatic's lineup is really good 5v5 but it's a bit weak in smaller skirmishes whereas NaVi's heroes excel in those. Also pushing was a bit tricky for Fnatic earlier because NaVi can pull the creeps so easily with ET, BM and Lina, so Fnatic just preferred to farm safely
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Adam is investing all he has on support items. Chinese position 6 style.
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Fnatic has the better 5 man, but they've left a T1 on the bottom up. And Na'Vi just stole a Rosh.
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Rofl at lifestealer slapping that tower.
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This Disruptor might get Aghs soon.
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That rosh sneak was really huge. Fnatic really wanted to make a big push with that. Fnatic's lineup is really quite poor when they are split up so when the game goes on it just gives NaVi more and more time to find good pickoffs. And NaVi cores can't be picked off easily
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Disruptor with Aghs, if he gets the Fnatic cores locked in, this game is over.
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ET Aghs is very underrated, I haven't seen anyone get it in the pro scene, and it is absolutely ridiculous against some heroes.
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Navi are outfarming them , but i'm not sure if they can handle the TB :D
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On April 13 2018 19:12 Ramiz1989 wrote: ET Aghs is very underrated, I haven't seen anyone get it in the pro scene, and it is absolutely ridiculous against some heroes.
Two Nullifiers, Disruptor & ET Aghs. Okay, that's Na'Vi's anti-TB strat, and works on Dark Willow.
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If Fnatic manages to hold for 10 minutes or so they might have some sort of a chance again in fights with hexes, last damage item on TB and maybe a rapier on Kunkka. For now it feels it's hard for them to start a fight. And quite hard to kill people even if NaVi engages
On April 13 2018 19:15 BlazingGlory wrote: Navi are outfarming them , but i'm not sure if they can handle the TB :D
For now the TB doesn't do that much damage. And he can't really hit the Naix through all the evasion
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LeBron keeps using ult on one hero, and out of all heroes it is always some support, I don't really know what is he doing, a well placed Static Storm wins the fight for them instantly, but he wasted like last 3 of them...
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I guess they don't need TB damage against Naix when Willow kills him
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The reason that Fnatic vs Na'Vi went so nuts the last time they played is because both teams are strategically incompetent in the late game.
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Naix is so strong this patch with all the attribute stats tweaks. 25% more hp and movespeed bonuses which is really important for melee heroes.
Well still not stronger than willow though
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LeBron is just really bad, that's 4th ulti completely misused. And Dark Willow is just really damn stupid.
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Willow is pure madness :D.
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Well Refresh blink is definitely something you don't see every day, that was a nice play by General.
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Willow is the only hero in dota that doesn't give a shit about gold leads.
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On April 13 2018 19:24 Ramiz1989 wrote: LeBron is just really bad, that's 4th ulti completely misused. And Dark Willow is just really damn stupid.
Agreed, he farms decently for a support, but he's worked really hard to throw this game for his team.
As for the game, Willow, Kunkka & TB are all BS late-game heroes. Whoever gets the jump can just win this.
Fnatic should never be in this position, and Na'Vi should have closed this game 25 minutes ago if they could pressure towers with some logic.
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Lol no AC against ET. TB destroyed in like 3 hits.
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Wow, if you actually use Static Storm even on just one hero that you are supposed to use it on, you instantly win the fight, WHO FUCKING KNEW?
...
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That TB just melted super fast lol. Was a bit weird positioning from Universe. Of course he was on the high ground but he ended up being alone without any support
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On April 13 2018 19:33 spudde123 wrote: That TB just melted super fast lol. Was a bit weird positioning from Universe. Of course he was on the high ground but he ended up being alone without any support He didn't expect them to come from that side, also if there was anyone there, he would just die together with Universe.
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So this kunkka currently has like 50% chance to deal a 2.7k damage armor piercing cleave.
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Yeah, I don't think this is winnable now for Na`Vi unless they completely outmaneuver the Fnatic... Kunkka with Divines in late game is just retarded.
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Navi is so scared of their own creeps lmao. Never risk go near them
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Fnatic still can't feel too comfortable when they go outside the base. This game might take a while still
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ROFL, this has to be the classic Envy game if I ever saw one, this shit is hilarious.
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50k gold lead and Fnatic still has chance to win. Nice heroes frog.
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That was a pretty badly executed fight by Fnatic. 343 completely wasting sleep and killing himself in the process, Kunkka isolated afterwards, etc
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We're on Game 1 of a new patch on LAN, and EE is attempting to break the game already.
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Ok so Fnatic are doing their best to not win this game or sth.
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ee just runs into 4 heroes. rofl
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Where you going Envy, the pit is not your base :D
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Envy dying in 1 second from 4 Lina hits because of ET aura. :')
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On April 13 2018 19:43 Ramiz1989 wrote: Envy dying in 1 second from 4 Lina hits because of ET aura. :')
And a Rapier.
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A TBB game again, what you doing Navi ;(
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Didn't Fnatic replace PLD with coach because of bad shoot calling in game. Only seem worse than ever.
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I like that NaVI have fun even during the draft!
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Does storm still suck after new patch, lets find out.
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Lyrical & Winter have to be hating whoever booked the casting for matches.
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Don't think Kiev is that bad of a city from what i have seen in videos.
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On April 13 2018 20:24 Sapaio wrote: Don't think Kiev is that bad of a city from what i have seen in videos.
this year's champions league will be there so it's a good city
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So, Doom is the Pangolier counter. Interesting!
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Great Storm game, and who's the idiot that left TB in the pool in the first phase?
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I more thought, that brood was a weird ban, to take tinker and leave Storm ...
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On April 13 2018 21:12 Geisterkarle wrote: I more thought, that brood was a weird ban, to take tinker and leave Storm ...
Storm isn't even on the map in the current Meta, and it's one of Abed's better heroes. It was a great Storm game and NaVi didn't see it. It happens.
Now, about banning Gyro over TB in the First Phase...
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3.5 hours in and only 2 games done, lol. Event Planners must hate EE at this point.
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So bad of Universe to use ult on the 2 heroes that were already caught in static storm. Swashbuckling with a javelin and shield crash on the 2 heroes will help burst them down much faster.
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Anyone remember the Manila Major era Secret? This feels really similar.
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Na'Vi with the anti-timing, again.
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They can't push against dusa pango puck, 3 of the best tower depushers.
Fnatic won this game with this defence.
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On April 13 2018 22:01 babysimba wrote: They can't push against dusa pango puck, 3 of the best tower depushers.
Fnatic won this game with this defence.
It's still Fnatic. That's saying too much.
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Dusa is a pretty stable hero. Pango and Puck just need to use dusa as an anchor to play around in teamfights. Can't think of any way Fnatic will lose this unless dusa gets caught way out of position and receive full damage of willow.
And there's still song for fail safe.
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Halbred & Nullifier. It's just a matter of who builds it for Na'Vi.
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On April 13 2018 22:08 babysimba wrote: Dusa is a pretty stable hero. Pango and Puck just need to use dusa as an anchor to play around in teamfights. Can't think of any way Fnatic will lose this unless dusa gets caught way out of position and receive full damage of willow.
And there's still song for fail safe.
This is still an Envy-lead team. Don't question the ability to throw. But the late-game items can lock down the Medusa.
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Lebron being bad is part of Na'Vi's problem.
Edit: Getting Break on EE means Fnatic has almost no damage.
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Even if one of these two somehow makes it to the international, they will just be punching bags for the rest.
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I really hope Vega is playing on point.
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Na'Vi has no item coordination, terrible high ground assault, terrible warding, but they know how to hit their skills really well. Can't do that when you're locked down because you walked into a blind high ground.
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This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Wtf 4 hours and 35 minutes to play a bo3 series, come on Fnatic & NAVI! What is this
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On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote: This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?
No, because both teams are bad.
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the crowd died with navi xD
@Pandemona a contest who throws harder ... Navi won
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote: This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason? No, because both teams are bad. Sadly the accurate summary
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On April 13 2018 22:35 its_a_me wrote: the crowd died with navi xD
@Pandemona a contest who throws harder ... Navi won Jesus lol! Oh well hopefully they wont meet again until final at best now.
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wtf is this interview? plz ukrain dont be such a bad loser!
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General was pretty bad game, was caught out of position and died. Cost them game.
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On April 13 2018 22:36 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote: This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason? No, because both teams are bad. Sadly the accurate summary
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3830552431
Look at Na'Vis item build.
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On April 13 2018 22:42 Sapaio wrote: General was pretty bad game, was caught out of position and died. Cost them game.
General was terrible all game, except for doing the dance.
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Late game "throws" are very lineup specific, even in EE teams. As Babysimba said, in this game the later engagements were very simple to play for Fnatic. Put Medusa in front and wait for the opportunity to do something with the other heroes. It makes playing very simple. Compare this to the first game where Fnatic had basically no initiation at all, and none of their heroes excelled in prolonged fights, so they had to hit their spells properly the first time around or they lost the fights.
On April 13 2018 22:44 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 22:36 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote: This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason? No, because both teams are bad. Sadly the accurate summary https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3830552431Look at Na'Vis item build.
What would you have bought?
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On April 13 2018 22:49 spudde123 wrote:Late game "throws" are very lineup specific, even in EE teams. As Babysimba said, in this game the later engagements were very simple to play for Fnatic. Put Medusa in front and wait for the opportunity to do something with the other heroes. It makes playing very simple. Compare this to the first game where Fnatic had basically no initiation at all, and none of their heroes excelled in prolonged fights, so they had to hit their spells properly the first time around or they lost the fights. Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 22:44 Taf the Ghost wrote:On April 13 2018 22:36 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote: This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason? No, because both teams are bad. Sadly the accurate summary https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3830552431Look at Na'Vis item build. What would you have bought?
Dendi & General's builds were okay, but they needed Pipe & Crimson on someone, Mech or Greaves would haven't been bad. Force Staff? General built like a pos 1 Leshrac, so someone needed to build all of the utility. Halbred to disable EE for 5 second. Oh, and a gem?
You can see how the Fnatic supports built, and especially Universe. That Abyssal was actually the game ender, where as Na'Vi was all building so they could make cool plays.
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Anyone hyped for this match-up ?
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On April 13 2018 23:07 BlazingGlory wrote:Anyone hyped for this match-up ? 
There should be a massive amount of killing, so that'll be fun.
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does sge even have a chance with flight delays and a sub
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vega def picking jakiro if it isnt banned
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On April 13 2018 23:18 nVme wrote: does sge even have a chance with flight delays and a sub
It can go two ways: 1) they get rolled because they're exhausted or 2) they play out of their minds because they aren't awake enough to know fear.
Seen it go both ways.
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SG laning is going to get destroyed with that first 3 heroes picked lol
Hmm might go other way now. All cores have extremely high killing potential during ganks.
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These SA teams. 1/10 they are like "cool they are getting there" , the rest "First game together as a team?"
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If Vega can win each game in under 22 min each, they can win a series in less time than Fnatic can win a game.
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World Class Rubick play can be so fun to watch.
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On April 13 2018 23:42 Taf the Ghost wrote: If Vega can win each game in under 22 min each, they can win a series in less time than Fnatic can win a game.
Seems like they need to concentrate on winning a single game first
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Has the high ground defense Meta started?
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wow sge impressive defense and coordination
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once lina gets a bloodthorn they would be able to get the bear easily
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Vega has almost no physical damage, they're going to need an Aghs on the bear.
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On April 14 2018 00:05 Taf the Ghost wrote: Has the high ground defense Meta started?
Vega just has a lineup that is practically completely melee range against MK, Lina etc. They also don't have a Batrider type hero that could really initiate and allow the other heroes to kill someone. I don't think it has much to do with any sort of meta but just the way these specific lineups interact. If Vega don't win with the advantage they get from their early pushing, their lineup isn't great against SG's one
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Bad lanes, but great team play by SG. Congrats on game 1.
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Next big offlaner is going to be centaur. One of the few initiator heroes that can not only shove in lanes fast but also scale extremely well. Stampede is also so good at saving team from disastrous teamfight when your team is not in position to take a proper fight.
Had like >70% winrate with him 3 months ago. But this patch just buff him more with the stats change and game slowed down a bit from laning phase.
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I think OD made a good point about SG in relation to the other South American teams. They play more as a team wheras the others try too hard to stand out on their own.
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Everyone has decided you need a Range Melee tower sieger.
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SG hit creeps really well. That's not an insult, they actually had more CS most of the laning phase in game 1 as well.
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am i the only one who is getting triggered by SK missing last hit?
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how did the fnatic vs navi go
why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes)
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On April 14 2018 01:09 goody153 wrote: how did the fnatic vs navi go
why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes) Jacky Mao. That's how.
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On April 14 2018 01:09 goody153 wrote: how did the fnatic vs navi go
why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes)
Because both teams are incompetent after 35 minutes, and I'm still not sure how Game 2 took so long when Abed was snowballing.
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ppd is going to break out the Treant this weekend, I hope, as this is actually pretty impressive how much work it does.
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Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed.
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On April 14 2018 01:12 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 01:09 goody153 wrote: how did the fnatic vs navi go
why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes) Because both teams are incompetent after 35 minutes, and I'm still not sure how Game 2 took so long when Abed was snowballing.
Because it's hard to push base against Tinker+Pango+AA. Fnatic wasn't in a terribly commanding position before 25min or so, which meant that NaVi had sidelane t2's up due to Tinker and Furion keeping the lanes out. Fnatic couldn't take more than 1 lane of rax on their following aegis push, and then due to the lineups they had to wait for the next aegis to end the game. The game really wasn't prolonged much more than it needed to
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United States15275 Posts
On April 14 2018 01:19 M.S.Bismarck wrote: Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed.
Yes, it's easy to abuse and requires too much resource commitment from the enemy team to effectively counter.
There should be a moratorium on Doom counterpicks against TB unless VP is running it.
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Treant also does well with spirit vessel since he wants to fight and it is great damage/heal. Though usually somebody else gets that, which means meteor hammer.
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All 4 of the first series went to 3 games, lol.
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On April 14 2018 01:35 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 01:19 M.S.Bismarck wrote: Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed. Yes, it's easy to abuse and requires too much resource commitment from the enemy team to effectively counter.
He also maxed Nature's Guise first. Is that the right build too?
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On April 14 2018 01:44 M.S.Bismarck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 01:35 CosmicSpiral wrote:On April 14 2018 01:19 M.S.Bismarck wrote: Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed. Yes, it's easy to abuse and requires too much resource commitment from the enemy team to effectively counter. He also maxed Nature's Guise first. Is that the right build too?
Haven't seen or played Treant much but you probably mostly want to pick the current Treant when you can be aggressive with him and set up kills and Nature's Guise scales very well with levels. Before the skill was changed Treant was more about abusing living armor, but these days it doesn't seem that big of a priority.
There probably are some games where you see that your killing opportunities really aren't there and it's better to start putting earlier points into living armor but when paired with heroes like Tiny and NS (which Vega had) Nature's Guise is really strong
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United States15275 Posts
Two more weeks of Firestorm working on Rosh zzzzz
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United States15275 Posts
This game could've been completely different if Slayer went for Blink over Force.
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This troll doesn't seem able to bash anything lol
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Rich Tusk buys a halbred? What a concept!
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Timber has heart ? Well it's not bad this game
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Feels like halberd/lotus over euls or blademail over euls will probably make Vega's life hell since troll is actually the one doing the damage.
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On April 14 2018 02:28 goody153 wrote: Timber has heart ? Well it's not bad this game Heart does keep getting better for Strength heroes. Now that Str gives magic resistance too, it's a lot of value on someone like Timber who can't really benefit from Satanic. Still doesn't help much against Troll and Silver Edge though.
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Timber missing the chain on the tree next to rosh and instead going halfway across the map to the dire woods with the talent
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This is over SG kinda blew it themselves
On April 14 2018 02:33 M.S.Bismarck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 02:28 goody153 wrote: Timber has heart ? Well it's not bad this game Heart does keep getting better for Strength heroes. Now that Str gives magic resistance too, it's a lot of value on someone like Timber who can't really benefit from Satanic. Still doesn't help much against Troll and Silver Edge though. Getting blademail or halberd might actually help against troll alot especially the really low bkb
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I guess one other thing to consider is Rubick's negative Null Field working against that magic res. Not sure how significant that is, but it is there.
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Interesting with two games in a row with treant first phase ban against vega.
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On April 14 2018 03:14 Yurie wrote: Interesting with two games in a row with treant first phase ban against vega.
FTM rolled VGJ.T with it yesterday. It's clearly a CIS special right now.
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Tsunami - This can't go 40-50 minutes, right? EE - Watch me!
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Pros trying their best to make icefrog nerf brood before TI
Think jakiro can win brood lane though with all those attack speed debuffs
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Wonder how this Brood vs Jakiro goes. Jakiro is such a dominating laner in early levels that he gets into quite a good lead at least
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ok jakiro is actually pretty ok against brood
dunno how that hero fares around level 5 and higher tho
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Oh Jakiro actually has enough aoe damage to kill the small spiderlings. Only the few big ones will survive.
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Jakiro's dominating laning phase seems to have been handled by Fnatic. Now that Fnatic helped the Brood out and the mid tower is down, Abed should be able to dominate the mid part of the map pretty well
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On April 14 2018 03:27 goody153 wrote: ok jakiro is actually pretty ok against brood
dunno how that hero fares around level 5 and higher tho
Not well.
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Jakiro and furion still pretty good at creating space at other lanes where brood isn't around.
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On April 14 2018 03:36 babysimba wrote: Jakiro and furion still pretty good at creating space at other lanes where brood isn't around.
TB is currently free farming and Fnatic is going to lose this game unless Vega botches a high ground push.
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This ward by Vega is very nice to catch the Brood. The nice part about Vega's lineup against Brood is that they push really fast so they don't really get into a situation where they can't get anything done on other lanes
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If it's Liquid, they will probably yolo and go high ground already instead of playing the slow death against TB.
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Fnatic is down in towers with a Broodmother draft. That sounds like the Fnatic I know.
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On April 14 2018 03:42 Taf the Ghost wrote: Fnatic is down in towers with a Broodmother draft. That sounds like the Fnatic I know.
Well it would be an achievement to be down on towers with Furion and Jakiro cores. Goes both ways lol
I think Fnatic still has a chance to take a pretty commanding fight with this BKB timing on Brood and the aegis. If they don't get it then it's likely too late
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Ageis + bkb timing on brood. Last chance for Fnatic to win game i believe
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Abed is farming so much that he is quite a threat even if the game goes a bit later.
Can't Fnatic kill the TB reasonably well with heartpiercer + Lion disables and Brood hitting him? Though they have to deal with SD save somehow
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Liquid should consider letting Matu play Jakiro. Feels like another cancer hero that he can play well.
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On April 14 2018 03:52 babysimba wrote: Liquid should consider letting Matu play Jakiro. Feels like another cancer hero that he can play well.
I'd say, "don't give them ideas", but it would be cool to see once.
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Good move by Vega, but now they're getting killed stupid.
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Broodmother game and a T1 lives to 40 minutes!
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They couldn't fight because their exorcism was down, but had no choice to buyback because towers were going down too fast.
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That was a pretty bad misjudgment top lane to try to turn it around. If it was a bit further away from the tower maybe the fight could have been okay, but it was so close that the other Fnatic heroes couldn't get a good jump.
Probably thought they could do it because of meta being down but the position was really bad
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At this rate, Valve is not even going to give SEA 2 TI qualifier slots
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Palanthimos has a pretty bad haircut, but good looking guy. A bit evil maybe, a young stavros blofeld (spelling)
Bring back PLD?
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In the first two matches today, the team that won game 1 lost the series. Happened 3 times in 4 opening matches. LOL.
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Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.
After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around
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I don't know what issues they have with PLD, but PLD is probably the few pos5 support in the scene that can roam really well. I mean that guy is the player that destroyed teams through solo roaming in MLG 4 years ago.
Fnatic had an interesting dynamic where they let PLD roam with pos5 farm priority, when DJ needs to play greedy yet static supports like shadow shaman or willow.
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On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote: Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.
After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around
EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.
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On April 14 2018 04:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote: Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.
After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.
And what would have been the timing there? That was what I was wondering about.
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On April 14 2018 04:17 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 04:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote: Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.
After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies. And what would have been the timing there? That was what I was wondering about.
Well, getting the mid T2 before 20ish minutes to start. Taking at least the bottom T1 before 40 minutes. This Fnatic team is terrible at the Objective side of "Objective-based Gaming", but the big thing was losing their mid T1 around 15 minutes. It killed any chance for a high ground push with the first Aegis, and maybe the second as well.
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Killing Abed twice around the Dire triangle was pretty good from Vega in that regard. If the Brood controls that area, smokes to kill the T2 and T1 bottom tower come pretty naturally. But if the Brood is dead and you have to regain the map control or you never get it back, it's much harder. It's pretty annoying to keep the side lanes out because the Brood doesn't want to move there and the DP wants to be involved in the plays the team makes and not sitting on a lane passively. If the Brood manages to posture aggressively, Vega can't move out to do any moves of their own because the Jakiro has to be sitting back dealing with it
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Yup. Jakiro also worked as a good natural counter, and they played it well. Vega knew they had to kill Abed a few times, did it, and won.
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Not sure how everyone on the panel and the commentary desk is so confident about Vega later on. Feels to me like the Void can become a pretty significant issue given that he has DP and Lina to add damage
The Nyx+Naix combo also isn't that threatening atm given that Naix wants to farm the radiance
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On April 14 2018 04:48 spudde123 wrote: Not sure how everyone on the panel and the commentary desk is so confident about Vega later on. Feels to me like the Void can become a pretty significant issue given that he has DP and Lina to add damage
Need a lot of net worth on all 3 cores before the really scary point for Fnatic's draft.
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Lina is the scary one to get out of control, though.
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On April 14 2018 04:52 Taf the Ghost wrote: Lina is the scary one to get out of control, though.
I think Naix and Nyx+AA should be quite good against Lina. But ofc Lina has a massive damage output if Fnatic manages to set her up. And I don't think Vega has the best answers to chrono, which was why I brought it up as a problem for them
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I guess the weakness of Fnatic's lineup is again that they are pretty weak in smaller groups compared to Vega, somewhat similarly as in g1 against NaVi. They constantly are pretty scared to keep the lanes pushed and can't take advantage of these aegises too well. Also makes successful smokes hard to do
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EE matching his love for chinese cartoons with his love for chinese bkbs
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These Nyx initiations are really good. Feels like it's too difficult for Fnatic to get a good jump themselves and Vega is doing a good job not giving any freebies
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The Jakiro is actually doing work and has been all game, it really should be noted.
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On April 14 2018 05:21 plasmidghost wrote: Fnatic was looking really solid with pieliedie, hopefully today's abysmal showings against tier 2-3 teams convinces them to use him again
EE's interview before this game was pretty weird in that regard. Felt to me like the situation isn't about them thinking about replacing him but that something happened with PLD that forced him to sit out for a while and they don't want to say what it actually was
This is just speculation of course, but anyway their official explanation about improving team cohesion or whatever seems made up, and the interview didn't give the impression that it was a straight up replacement either
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is the macropyre talent worth it? i feel like jakiro with the icepath talent and an octarine is near unbeatable
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The Jakiro really is annoying to deal with even really late. I underestimated it quite a bit in my mind
After the BKBs go out Fnatic is in big trouble in every fight
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Jakiro could probably cover the entire screen with 2 macropyres
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United States15275 Posts
On April 14 2018 05:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote: is the macropyre talent worth it? i feel like jakiro with the icepath talent and an octarine is near unbeatable
Vega has a lot of chain-stun already. Macropyre damage can be the deciding factor in these initiations.
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On April 14 2018 05:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote: is the macropyre talent worth it? i feel like jakiro with the icepath talent and an octarine is near unbeatable
Underlord's pit is supposed to lock them down. If they get them locked down, it's over.
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United States15275 Posts
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Adam's play feels super lackluster
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Universe
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On April 14 2018 05:38 CosmicSpiral wrote: What did I say?
Refresher Pure-dmg Macropyre for the win.
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On April 14 2018 05:38 CosmicSpiral wrote: What did I say?
my goodness gracious GREAT BALLS OF FIRE
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I feel like you ban jak and vega is lost thou
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SG was more prepared for Vega's drafts. Let that sink in.
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On April 14 2018 05:41 Mosoball wrote: I feel like you ban jak and vega is lost thou
It goes a lot harder for them.
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On April 14 2018 05:45 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 05:41 Mosoball wrote: I feel like you ban jak and vega is lost thou It goes a lot harder for them.
Yea you could see against SG they played terrible without having the Jakiro as their anchor. SG knew about the pick I guess
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No Day 3 thread yet, but at least Fnatic is the last series of the day.
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