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[StarLadder] Kiev Minor - Group Stage Day 2

Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments
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Normal
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-12 21:10:54
April 12 2018 21:10 GMT
#1

StarLadder


Friday, Apr 13 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)

(Wiki)StarLadder/i-League Invitational/5

Streams


StarLadder | StarLadder 2

Format

  • Eight teams are divided into two groups of four teams each where they play in a double-elimination (GSL) format.
  • All matches are played in a Bo3.
  • The top two teams from each group advance to the playoffs.

Teams!


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Fixtures & Results


Friday, Apr 13 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
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Friday, Apr 13 12:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
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Thursday, Apr 12 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Winners Match
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CSS: FO-nTTaX
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ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 13 2018 00:40 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 06:03 GMT
#3
While Fnatic & Vega should be favorites, it's also Day 1 of a new patch. Insanity can always happen.
Sapaio
Profile Joined October 2017
Denmark2037 Posts
April 13 2018 08:10 GMT
#4
Is this part of Valves plan to make new patches in every tournaments. Maybe they can make next patches in break in finale after matche 2, just to see how adaptable players are.
GO OG
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 08:25 GMT
#5
On April 13 2018 17:10 Sapaio wrote:
Is this part of Valves plan to make new patches in every tournaments. Maybe they can make next patches in break in finale after matche 2, just to see how adaptable players are.


There's a bit of that, haha.

Though, realistically, in-tournament Metas move so fast, a patch barely matters.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 08:55 GMT
#6
In unrelated news, it's good to see Sheever's hair finally starting to grow back after the Chemo. It's going to be a while before the original color returns, but it's still good to see she's recovering. The hair growth is one of the outward signs of it.
Racket
Profile Joined July 2013
3023 Posts
April 13 2018 09:20 GMT
#7
I missed the draft. Did Dendi drafted again? Or did they finally change it?
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 09:22 GMT
#8
On April 13 2018 18:20 Racket wrote:
I missed the draft. Did Dendi drafted again? Or did they finally change it?


They huddle around Dendi still, so yes?

I think the issue is more telling people "no" even if it's a comfort pick. Nahaz, oddly enough, brought up a point I made about FTM (though he mentioned Kinguin) where you go for a comfort pick over the optimal pick.

Though I'm less against the Lifestealer than the panel is. If you can get LS to the "High Damage Doom" phase, he can 1 vs 1 TB. Someone needs to build Halbred, though.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 09:30 GMT
#9
The fat Kunkka is going to be a bigger worry for Na'Vi.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 09:38 GMT
#10
12 min in, the pity clap for killing a 5 position support with a Roar.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 09:44:47
April 13 2018 09:41 GMT
#11
Fnatic might be farming too much.

Edit: General has the right idea to split-pushing, though the rest of the team should be rotating to get kills.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 09:48 GMT
#12
Na`Vi is playing like they have no clue what their game plan is... not sure what to say, they have Disruptor, ET, Lina and Beastmaster and they are not getting any kills.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 09:50 GMT
#13
On April 13 2018 18:48 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Na`Vi is playing like they have no clue what their game plan is... not sure what to say, they have Disruptor, ET, Lina and Beastmaster and they are not getting any kills.


Agreed. They should be split-pushing and running gank squads into the jungle.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 09:51 GMT
#14
Fnatic hasn't been splitting up that much to give NaVi upportunities from what I've seen. Fnatic's lineup is really good 5v5 but it's a bit weak in smaller skirmishes whereas NaVi's heroes excel in those. Also pushing was a bit tricky for Fnatic earlier because NaVi can pull the creeps so easily with ET, BM and Lina, so Fnatic just preferred to farm safely
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 09:54 GMT
#15
Adam is investing all he has on support items. Chinese position 6 style.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 09:58 GMT
#16
Fnatic has the better 5 man, but they've left a T1 on the bottom up. And Na'Vi just stole a Rosh.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 10:01 GMT
#17
Rofl at lifestealer slapping that tower.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:02 GMT
#18
This Disruptor might get Aghs soon.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 10:02 GMT
#19
That rosh sneak was really huge. Fnatic really wanted to make a big push with that. Fnatic's lineup is really quite poor when they are split up so when the game goes on it just gives NaVi more and more time to find good pickoffs. And NaVi cores can't be picked off easily
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:08 GMT
#20
Disruptor with Aghs, if he gets the Fnatic cores locked in, this game is over.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:12 GMT
#21
ET Aghs is very underrated, I haven't seen anyone get it in the pro scene, and it is absolutely ridiculous against some heroes.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 10:15 GMT
#22
Navi are outfarming them , but i'm not sure if they can handle the TB :D
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:15 GMT
#23
On April 13 2018 19:12 Ramiz1989 wrote:
ET Aghs is very underrated, I haven't seen anyone get it in the pro scene, and it is absolutely ridiculous against some heroes.


Two Nullifiers, Disruptor & ET Aghs. Okay, that's Na'Vi's anti-TB strat, and works on Dark Willow.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 10:17:35
April 13 2018 10:16 GMT
#24
If Fnatic manages to hold for 10 minutes or so they might have some sort of a chance again in fights with hexes, last damage item on TB and maybe a rapier on Kunkka. For now it feels it's hard for them to start a fight. And quite hard to kill people even if NaVi engages

On April 13 2018 19:15 BlazingGlory wrote:
Navi are outfarming them , but i'm not sure if they can handle the TB :D


For now the TB doesn't do that much damage. And he can't really hit the Naix through all the evasion
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 10:20 GMT
#25
Roar onto 3k naga?
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:20 GMT
#26
LeBron keeps using ult on one hero, and out of all heroes it is always some support, I don't really know what is he doing, a well placed Static Storm wins the fight for them instantly, but he wasted like last 3 of them...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 10:21 GMT
#27
I guess they don't need TB damage against Naix when Willow kills him
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:21 GMT
#28
The reason that Fnatic vs Na'Vi went so nuts the last time they played is because both teams are strategically incompetent in the late game.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 10:21 GMT
#29
Naix is so strong this patch with all the attribute stats tweaks. 25% more hp and movespeed bonuses which is really important for melee heroes.

Well still not stronger than willow though
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:24 GMT
#30
LeBron is just really bad, that's 4th ulti completely misused. And Dark Willow is just really damn stupid.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 10:24 GMT
#31
Willow is pure madness :D.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:27 GMT
#32
Well Refresh blink is definitely something you don't see every day, that was a nice play by General.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 10:28 GMT
#33
Willow is the only hero in dota that doesn't give a shit about gold leads.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:28 GMT
#34
On April 13 2018 19:24 Ramiz1989 wrote:
LeBron is just really bad, that's 4th ulti completely misused. And Dark Willow is just really damn stupid.


Agreed, he farms decently for a support, but he's worked really hard to throw this game for his team.

As for the game, Willow, Kunkka & TB are all BS late-game heroes. Whoever gets the jump can just win this.

Fnatic should never be in this position, and Na'Vi should have closed this game 25 minutes ago if they could pressure towers with some logic.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 10:31 GMT
#35
Lol no AC against ET. TB destroyed in like 3 hits.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:32 GMT
#36
Wow, if you actually use Static Storm even on just one hero that you are supposed to use it on, you instantly win the fight, WHO FUCKING KNEW?

...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 10:33 GMT
#37
That TB just melted super fast lol. Was a bit weird positioning from Universe. Of course he was on the high ground but he ended up being alone without any support
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:34 GMT
#38
On April 13 2018 19:33 spudde123 wrote:
That TB just melted super fast lol. Was a bit weird positioning from Universe. Of course he was on the high ground but he ended up being alone without any support

He didn't expect them to come from that side, also if there was anyone there, he would just die together with Universe.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 10:47:20
April 13 2018 10:35 GMT
#39
So this kunkka currently has like 50% chance to deal a 2.7k damage armor piercing cleave.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 10:35 GMT
#40
LOL the rapier cleave
Tegenaria
Profile Joined November 2011
France379 Posts
April 13 2018 10:35 GMT
#41
ROFL
Balance game xD
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
April 13 2018 10:36 GMT
#42
that reaction :D
hahaha
FTD
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:36 GMT
#43
Yeah, I don't think this is winnable now for Na`Vi unless they completely outmaneuver the Fnatic... Kunkka with Divines in late game is just retarded.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 10:37:36
April 13 2018 10:37 GMT
#44
Navi is so scared of their own creeps lmao. Never risk go near them
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 10:39 GMT
#45
Fnatic still can't feel too comfortable when they go outside the base. This game might take a while still
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:40 GMT
#46
ROFL, this has to be the classic Envy game if I ever saw one, this shit is hilarious.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 10:41 GMT
#47
50k gold lead and Fnatic still has chance to win. Nice heroes frog.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 10:41 GMT
#48
That was a pretty badly executed fight by Fnatic. 343 completely wasting sleep and killing himself in the process, Kunkka isolated afterwards, etc
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
April 13 2018 10:41 GMT
#49
casual 5 hero buyback
FTD
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:41 GMT
#50
We're on Game 1 of a new patch on LAN, and EE is attempting to break the game already.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 10:41 GMT
#51
Ok so Fnatic are doing their best to not win this game or sth.
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
April 13 2018 10:43 GMT
#52
ee just runs into 4 heroes. rofl
FTD
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 10:43 GMT
#53
Where you going Envy, the pit is not your base :D
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 13 2018 10:43 GMT
#54
Envy dying in 1 second from 4 Lina hits because of ET aura. :')
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 10:55 GMT
#55
On April 13 2018 19:43 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Envy dying in 1 second from 4 Lina hits because of ET aura. :')


And a Rapier.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 11:08 GMT
#56
A TBB game again, what you doing Navi ;(
Sapaio
Profile Joined October 2017
Denmark2037 Posts
April 13 2018 11:11 GMT
#57
Didn't Fnatic replace PLD with coach because of bad shoot calling in game. Only seem worse than ever.
GO OG
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
April 13 2018 11:12 GMT
#58
I like that NaVI have fun even during the draft!
There can only be one Geisterkarle
Sapaio
Profile Joined October 2017
Denmark2037 Posts
April 13 2018 11:15 GMT
#59
Does storm still suck after new patch, lets find out.
GO OG
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 11:15 GMT
#60
Lyrical & Winter have to be hating whoever booked the casting for matches.
Sapaio
Profile Joined October 2017
Denmark2037 Posts
April 13 2018 11:24 GMT
#61
Don't think Kiev is that bad of a city from what i have seen in videos.

GO OG
Vertical
Profile Joined July 2011
Indonesia4317 Posts
April 13 2018 11:29 GMT
#62
On April 13 2018 20:24 Sapaio wrote:
Don't think Kiev is that bad of a city from what i have seen in videos.


this year's champions league will be there
so it's a good city
-Terran-
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 11:55 GMT
#63
So, Doom is the Pangolier counter. Interesting!
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 11:59 GMT
#64
Great Storm game, and who's the idiot that left TB in the pool in the first phase?
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
April 13 2018 12:12 GMT
#65
I more thought, that brood was a weird ban, to take tinker and leave Storm ...
There can only be one Geisterkarle
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 12:15 GMT
#66
On April 13 2018 21:12 Geisterkarle wrote:
I more thought, that brood was a weird ban, to take tinker and leave Storm ...


Storm isn't even on the map in the current Meta, and it's one of Abed's better heroes. It was a great Storm game and NaVi didn't see it. It happens.

Now, about banning Gyro over TB in the First Phase...
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 12:33 GMT
#67
3.5 hours in and only 2 games done, lol. Event Planners must hate EE at this point.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 12:51:12
April 13 2018 12:50 GMT
#68
So bad of Universe to use ult on the 2 heroes that were already caught in static storm.
Swashbuckling with a javelin and shield crash on the 2 heroes will help burst them down much faster.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 12:55 GMT
#69
Anyone remember the Manila Major era Secret? This feels really similar.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:00 GMT
#70
Na'Vi with the anti-timing, again.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 13:01 GMT
#71
They can't push against dusa pango puck, 3 of the best tower depushers.

Fnatic won this game with this defence.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:04 GMT
#72
On April 13 2018 22:01 babysimba wrote:
They can't push against dusa pango puck, 3 of the best tower depushers.

Fnatic won this game with this defence.


It's still Fnatic. That's saying too much.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 13:10:21
April 13 2018 13:08 GMT
#73
Dusa is a pretty stable hero. Pango and Puck just need to use dusa as an anchor to play around in teamfights. Can't think of any way Fnatic will lose this unless dusa gets caught way out of position and receive full damage of willow.

And there's still song for fail safe.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:10 GMT
#74
Halbred & Nullifier. It's just a matter of who builds it for Na'Vi.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:11 GMT
#75
On April 13 2018 22:08 babysimba wrote:
Dusa is a pretty stable hero. Pango and Puck just need to use dusa as an anchor to play around in teamfights. Can't think of any way Fnatic will lose this unless dusa gets caught way out of position and receive full damage of willow.

And there's still song for fail safe.


This is still an Envy-lead team. Don't question the ability to throw. But the late-game items can lock down the Medusa.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 13:25:27
April 13 2018 13:20 GMT
#76
Lebron being bad is part of Na'Vi's problem.

Edit: Getting Break on EE means Fnatic has almost no damage.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 13:30 GMT
#77
Even if one of these two somehow makes it to the international, they will just be punching bags for the rest.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:31 GMT
#78
I really hope Vega is playing on point.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:32 GMT
#79
Na'Vi has no item coordination, terrible high ground assault, terrible warding, but they know how to hit their skills really well. Can't do that when you're locked down because you walked into a blind high ground.
267
Profile Joined December 2017
64 Posts
April 13 2018 13:33 GMT
#80
This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
April 13 2018 13:35 GMT
#81
Wtf 4 hours and 35 minutes to play a bo3 series, come on Fnatic & NAVI! What is this
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:35 GMT
#82
On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote:
This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?


No, because both teams are bad.
its_a_me
Profile Joined June 2016
Austria612 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 13:36:12
April 13 2018 13:35 GMT
#83
the crowd died with navi xD

@Pandemona
a contest who throws harder ... Navi won
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
April 13 2018 13:36 GMT
#84
On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote:
This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?


No, because both teams are bad.

Sadly the accurate summary
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
April 13 2018 13:37 GMT
#85
On April 13 2018 22:35 its_a_me wrote:
the crowd died with navi xD

@Pandemona
a contest who throws harder ... Navi won

Jesus lol! Oh well hopefully they wont meet again until final at best now.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
its_a_me
Profile Joined June 2016
Austria612 Posts
April 13 2018 13:38 GMT
#86
wtf is this interview? plz ukrain dont be such a bad loser!
Sapaio
Profile Joined October 2017
Denmark2037 Posts
April 13 2018 13:42 GMT
#87
General was pretty bad game, was caught out of position and died. Cost them game.
GO OG
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:44 GMT
#88
On April 13 2018 22:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote:
This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?


No, because both teams are bad.

Sadly the accurate summary


https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3830552431

Look at Na'Vis item build.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 13:44 GMT
#89
On April 13 2018 22:42 Sapaio wrote:
General was pretty bad game, was caught out of position and died. Cost them game.


General was terrible all game, except for doing the dance.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 13:52:03
April 13 2018 13:49 GMT
#90
Late game "throws" are very lineup specific, even in EE teams. As Babysimba said, in this game the later engagements were very simple to play for Fnatic. Put Medusa in front and wait for the opportunity to do something with the other heroes. It makes playing very simple. Compare this to the first game where Fnatic had basically no initiation at all, and none of their heroes excelled in prolonged fights, so they had to hit their spells properly the first time around or they lost the fights.

On April 13 2018 22:44 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2018 22:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote:
This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?


No, because both teams are bad.

Sadly the accurate summary


https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3830552431

Look at Na'Vis item build.


What would you have bought?
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 14:00 GMT
#91
On April 13 2018 22:49 spudde123 wrote:
Late game "throws" are very lineup specific, even in EE teams. As Babysimba said, in this game the later engagements were very simple to play for Fnatic. Put Medusa in front and wait for the opportunity to do something with the other heroes. It makes playing very simple. Compare this to the first game where Fnatic had basically no initiation at all, and none of their heroes excelled in prolonged fights, so they had to hit their spells properly the first time around or they lost the fights.

Show nested quote +
On April 13 2018 22:44 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On April 13 2018 22:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
On April 13 2018 22:35 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On April 13 2018 22:33 267 wrote:
This is starting to get silly... like can you stop randomly dying for no good reason?


No, because both teams are bad.

Sadly the accurate summary


https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3830552431

Look at Na'Vis item build.


What would you have bought?


Dendi & General's builds were okay, but they needed Pipe & Crimson on someone, Mech or Greaves would haven't been bad. Force Staff? General built like a pos 1 Leshrac, so someone needed to build all of the utility. Halbred to disable EE for 5 second. Oh, and a gem?

You can see how the Fnatic supports built, and especially Universe. That Abyssal was actually the game ender, where as Na'Vi was all building so they could make cool plays.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 14:07 GMT
#92
Anyone hyped for this match-up ?
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 14:09 GMT
#93
On April 13 2018 23:07 BlazingGlory wrote:
Anyone hyped for this match-up ?


There should be a massive amount of killing, so that'll be fun.
nVme
Profile Joined October 2010
952 Posts
April 13 2018 14:18 GMT
#94
does sge even have a chance with flight delays and a sub
nVme
Profile Joined October 2010
952 Posts
April 13 2018 14:18 GMT
#95
vega def picking jakiro if it isnt banned
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 14:21 GMT
#96
On April 13 2018 23:18 nVme wrote:
does sge even have a chance with flight delays and a sub


It can go two ways: 1) they get rolled because they're exhausted or 2) they play out of their minds because they aren't awake enough to know fear.

Seen it go both ways.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 14:30:56
April 13 2018 14:24 GMT
#97
SG laning is going to get destroyed with that first 3 heroes picked lol

Hmm might go other way now. All cores have extremely high killing potential during ganks.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria855 Posts
April 13 2018 14:41 GMT
#98
These SA teams. 1/10 they are like "cool they are getting there" , the rest "First game together as a team?"
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 14:42 GMT
#99
If Vega can win each game in under 22 min each, they can win a series in less time than Fnatic can win a game.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 14:46 GMT
#100
World Class Rubick play can be so fun to watch.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 15:05 GMT
#101
On April 13 2018 23:42 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If Vega can win each game in under 22 min each, they can win a series in less time than Fnatic can win a game.


Seems like they need to concentrate on winning a single game first
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 15:05 GMT
#102
Has the high ground defense Meta started?
nVme
Profile Joined October 2010
952 Posts
April 13 2018 15:05 GMT
#103
wow sge impressive defense and coordination
nVme
Profile Joined October 2010
952 Posts
April 13 2018 15:06 GMT
#104
once lina gets a bloodthorn they would be able to get the bear easily
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 15:08 GMT
#105
Vega has almost no physical damage, they're going to need an Aghs on the bear.
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 13 2018 15:14 GMT
#106
--- Nuked ---
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 15:16 GMT
#107
On April 14 2018 00:05 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Has the high ground defense Meta started?


Vega just has a lineup that is practically completely melee range against MK, Lina etc. They also don't have a Batrider type hero that could really initiate and allow the other heroes to kill someone. I don't think it has much to do with any sort of meta but just the way these specific lineups interact. If Vega don't win with the advantage they get from their early pushing, their lineup isn't great against SG's one
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 15:20 GMT
#108
Bad lanes, but great team play by SG. Congrats on game 1.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 15:39:50
April 13 2018 15:39 GMT
#109
Next big offlaner is going to be centaur. One of the few initiator heroes that can not only shove in lanes fast but also scale extremely well. Stampede is also so good at saving team from disastrous teamfight when your team is not in position to take a proper fight.

Had like >70% winrate with him 3 months ago. But this patch just buff him more with the stats change and game slowed down a bit from laning phase.
GOHF
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1864 Posts
April 13 2018 15:41 GMT
#110
I think OD made a good point about SG in relation to the other South American teams. They play more as a team wheras the others try too hard to stand out on their own.
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 15:45 GMT
#111
Everyone has decided you need a Range Melee tower sieger.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 15:54 GMT
#112
SG hit creeps really well. That's not an insult, they actually had more CS most of the laning phase in game 1 as well.
kkkkkkkkkk88
Profile Joined April 2018
5 Posts
April 13 2018 16:06 GMT
#113
am i the only one who is getting triggered by SK missing last hit?
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44251 Posts
April 13 2018 16:09 GMT
#114
how did the fnatic vs navi go

why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes)
this is a quote
GOHF
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1864 Posts
April 13 2018 16:10 GMT
#115
On April 14 2018 01:09 goody153 wrote:
how did the fnatic vs navi go

why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes)

Jacky Mao. That's how.
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 16:12 GMT
#116
On April 14 2018 01:09 goody153 wrote:
how did the fnatic vs navi go

why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes)


Because both teams are incompetent after 35 minutes, and I'm still not sure how Game 2 took so long when Abed was snowballing.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 16:14 GMT
#117
ppd is going to break out the Treant this weekend, I hope, as this is actually pretty impressive how much work it does.
GOHF
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1864 Posts
April 13 2018 16:19 GMT
#118
Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed.
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 16:25 GMT
#119
On April 14 2018 01:12 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 01:09 goody153 wrote:
how did the fnatic vs navi go

why the fuck do they have a ultra-lategame again(70 minutes)


Because both teams are incompetent after 35 minutes, and I'm still not sure how Game 2 took so long when Abed was snowballing.


Because it's hard to push base against Tinker+Pango+AA. Fnatic wasn't in a terribly commanding position before 25min or so, which meant that NaVi had sidelane t2's up due to Tinker and Furion keeping the lanes out. Fnatic couldn't take more than 1 lane of rax on their following aegis push, and then due to the lineups they had to wait for the next aegis to end the game. The game really wasn't prolonged much more than it needed to
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
April 13 2018 16:35 GMT
#120
On April 14 2018 01:19 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed.


Yes, it's easy to abuse and requires too much resource commitment from the enemy team to effectively counter.

There should be a moratorium on Doom counterpicks against TB unless VP is running it.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12077 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 16:39:00
April 13 2018 16:38 GMT
#121
Treant also does well with spirit vessel since he wants to fight and it is great damage/heal. Though usually somebody else gets that, which means meteor hammer.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 16:40 GMT
#122
All 4 of the first series went to 3 games, lol.
GOHF
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1864 Posts
April 13 2018 16:44 GMT
#123
On April 14 2018 01:35 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 01:19 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed.


Yes, it's easy to abuse and requires too much resource commitment from the enemy team to effectively counter.


He also maxed Nature's Guise first. Is that the right build too?
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 16:51 GMT
#124
On April 14 2018 01:44 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 01:35 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On April 14 2018 01:19 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Is Meteor Hammer the go to item on Treant now? I still feel lost on this hero ever since his move speed got nerfed.


Yes, it's easy to abuse and requires too much resource commitment from the enemy team to effectively counter.


He also maxed Nature's Guise first. Is that the right build too?


Haven't seen or played Treant much but you probably mostly want to pick the current Treant when you can be aggressive with him and set up kills and Nature's Guise scales very well with levels. Before the skill was changed Treant was more about abusing living armor, but these days it doesn't seem that big of a priority.

There probably are some games where you see that your killing opportunities really aren't there and it's better to start putting earlier points into living armor but when paired with heroes like Tiny and NS (which Vega had) Nature's Guise is really strong
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
April 13 2018 17:11 GMT
#125
Two more weeks of Firestorm working on Rosh zzzzz
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
April 13 2018 17:21 GMT
#126
This game could've been completely different if Slayer went for Blink over Force.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 17:21 GMT
#127
This troll doesn't seem able to bash anything lol
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 17:22 GMT
#128
Rich Tusk buys a halbred? What a concept!
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44251 Posts
April 13 2018 17:28 GMT
#129
Timber has heart ? Well it's not bad this game
this is a quote
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44251 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 17:32:26
April 13 2018 17:32 GMT
#130
Feels like halberd/lotus over euls or blademail over euls will probably make Vega's life hell since troll is actually the one doing the damage.
this is a quote
GOHF
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1864 Posts
April 13 2018 17:33 GMT
#131
On April 14 2018 02:28 goody153 wrote:
Timber has heart ? Well it's not bad this game

Heart does keep getting better for Strength heroes. Now that Str gives magic resistance too, it's a lot of value on someone like Timber who can't really benefit from Satanic. Still doesn't help much against Troll and Silver Edge though.
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 17:36:18
April 13 2018 17:34 GMT
#132
Timber missing the chain on the tree next to rosh and instead going halfway across the map to the dire woods with the talent
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44251 Posts
April 13 2018 17:36 GMT
#133
This is over SG kinda blew it themselves

On April 14 2018 02:33 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 02:28 goody153 wrote:
Timber has heart ? Well it's not bad this game

Heart does keep getting better for Strength heroes. Now that Str gives magic resistance too, it's a lot of value on someone like Timber who can't really benefit from Satanic. Still doesn't help much against Troll and Silver Edge though.

Getting blademail or halberd might actually help against troll alot especially the really low bkb
this is a quote
GOHF
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1864 Posts
April 13 2018 17:39 GMT
#134
I guess one other thing to consider is Rubick's negative Null Field working against that magic res. Not sure how significant that is, but it is there.
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
Chillander
Profile Joined September 2017
219 Posts
April 13 2018 18:00 GMT
#135
^ l33t post
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12077 Posts
April 13 2018 18:14 GMT
#136
Interesting with two games in a row with treant first phase ban against vega.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 18:20 GMT
#137
On April 14 2018 03:14 Yurie wrote:
Interesting with two games in a row with treant first phase ban against vega.


FTM rolled VGJ.T with it yesterday. It's clearly a CIS special right now.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 18:22 GMT
#138
Tsunami - This can't go 40-50 minutes, right?
EE - Watch me!
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 18:26:11
April 13 2018 18:24 GMT
#139
Pros trying their best to make icefrog nerf brood before TI

Think jakiro can win brood lane though with all those attack speed debuffs
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 18:26 GMT
#140
Wonder how this Brood vs Jakiro goes. Jakiro is such a dominating laner in early levels that he gets into quite a good lead at least
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44251 Posts
April 13 2018 18:27 GMT
#141
ok jakiro is actually pretty ok against brood

dunno how that hero fares around level 5 and higher tho
this is a quote
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 18:27 GMT
#142
Oh Jakiro actually has enough aoe damage to kill the small spiderlings. Only the few big ones will survive.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 18:33 GMT
#143
Jakiro's dominating laning phase seems to have been handled by Fnatic. Now that Fnatic helped the Brood out and the mid tower is down, Abed should be able to dominate the mid part of the map pretty well
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 18:34 GMT
#144
On April 14 2018 03:27 goody153 wrote:
ok jakiro is actually pretty ok against brood

dunno how that hero fares around level 5 and higher tho


Not well.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 18:36 GMT
#145
Jakiro and furion still pretty good at creating space at other lanes where brood isn't around.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 18:38 GMT
#146
On April 14 2018 03:36 babysimba wrote:
Jakiro and furion still pretty good at creating space at other lanes where brood isn't around.


TB is currently free farming and Fnatic is going to lose this game unless Vega botches a high ground push.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 18:38 GMT
#147
BROOD CHEESE DESTROYED.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 18:39 GMT
#148
This ward by Vega is very nice to catch the Brood. The nice part about Vega's lineup against Brood is that they push really fast so they don't really get into a situation where they can't get anything done on other lanes
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 18:40 GMT
#149
If it's Liquid, they will probably yolo and go high ground already instead of playing the slow death against TB.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 18:42 GMT
#150
Fnatic is down in towers with a Broodmother draft. That sounds like the Fnatic I know.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 18:45:47
April 13 2018 18:44 GMT
#151
On April 14 2018 03:42 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Fnatic is down in towers with a Broodmother draft. That sounds like the Fnatic I know.


Well it would be an achievement to be down on towers with Furion and Jakiro cores. Goes both ways lol

I think Fnatic still has a chance to take a pretty commanding fight with this BKB timing on Brood and the aegis. If they don't get it then it's likely too late
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 18:44 GMT
#152
Ageis + bkb timing on brood. Last chance for Fnatic to win game i believe
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 18:51:07
April 13 2018 18:50 GMT
#153
Abed is farming so much that he is quite a threat even if the game goes a bit later.

Can't Fnatic kill the TB reasonably well with heartpiercer + Lion disables and Brood hitting him? Though they have to deal with SD save somehow
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 18:52 GMT
#154
Liquid should consider letting Matu play Jakiro. Feels like another cancer hero that he can play well.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 18:54 GMT
#155
On April 14 2018 03:52 babysimba wrote:
Liquid should consider letting Matu play Jakiro. Feels like another cancer hero that he can play well.


I'd say, "don't give them ideas", but it would be cool to see once.
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 13 2018 19:02 GMT
#156
--- Nuked ---
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:03 GMT
#157
Good move by Vega, but now they're getting killed stupid.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:04 GMT
#158
Broodmother game and a T1 lives to 40 minutes!
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 19:04 GMT
#159
They couldn't fight because their exorcism was down, but had no choice to buyback because towers were going down too fast.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 19:04 GMT
#160
That was a pretty bad misjudgment top lane to try to turn it around. If it was a bit further away from the tower maybe the fight could have been okay, but it was so close that the other Fnatic heroes couldn't get a good jump.

Probably thought they could do it because of meta being down but the position was really bad
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 19:07 GMT
#161
At this rate, Valve is not even going to give SEA 2 TI qualifier slots
Chillander
Profile Joined September 2017
219 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 19:09:19
April 13 2018 19:08 GMT
#162
Palanthimos has a pretty bad haircut, but good looking guy. A bit evil maybe, a young stavros blofeld (spelling)

Bring back PLD?
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:08 GMT
#163
In the first two matches today, the team that won game 1 lost the series. Happened 3 times in 4 opening matches. LOL.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 19:11 GMT
#164
Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.

After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 19:14 GMT
#165
I don't know what issues they have with PLD, but PLD is probably the few pos5 support in the scene that can roam really well. I mean that guy is the player that destroyed teams through solo roaming in MLG 4 years ago.

Fnatic had an interesting dynamic where they let PLD roam with pos5 farm priority, when DJ needs to play greedy yet static supports like shadow shaman or willow.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:15 GMT
#166
On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote:
Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.

After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around


EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 19:17:50
April 13 2018 19:17 GMT
#167
On April 14 2018 04:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote:
Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.

After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around


EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.


And what would have been the timing there? That was what I was wondering about.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:23 GMT
#168
On April 14 2018 04:17 spudde123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 04:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote:
Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.

After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around


EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.


And what would have been the timing there? That was what I was wondering about.


Well, getting the mid T2 before 20ish minutes to start. Taking at least the bottom T1 before 40 minutes. This Fnatic team is terrible at the Objective side of "Objective-based Gaming", but the big thing was losing their mid T1 around 15 minutes. It killed any chance for a high ground push with the first Aegis, and maybe the second as well.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:25 GMT
#169
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3829506426

See this game from Optic yesterday for what a clinical Brood game looks like. 33 took the Mid T1 at 8 min, T2 at 10 min and the Mid T3 at 16 min.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 19:29:49
April 13 2018 19:27 GMT
#170
Killing Abed twice around the Dire triangle was pretty good from Vega in that regard. If the Brood controls that area, smokes to kill the T2 and T1 bottom tower come pretty naturally. But if the Brood is dead and you have to regain the map control or you never get it back, it's much harder. It's pretty annoying to keep the side lanes out because the Brood doesn't want to move there and the DP wants to be involved in the plays the team makes and not sitting on a lane passively. If the Brood manages to posture aggressively, Vega can't move out to do any moves of their own because the Jakiro has to be sitting back dealing with it
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:33 GMT
#171
Yup. Jakiro also worked as a good natural counter, and they played it well. Vega knew they had to kill Abed a few times, did it, and won.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 19:50:49
April 13 2018 19:48 GMT
#172
Not sure how everyone on the panel and the commentary desk is so confident about Vega later on. Feels to me like the Void can become a pretty significant issue given that he has DP and Lina to add damage

The Nyx+Naix combo also isn't that threatening atm given that Naix wants to farm the radiance
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:50 GMT
#173
On April 14 2018 04:48 spudde123 wrote:
Not sure how everyone on the panel and the commentary desk is so confident about Vega later on. Feels to me like the Void can become a pretty significant issue given that he has DP and Lina to add damage


Need a lot of net worth on all 3 cores before the really scary point for Fnatic's draft.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 19:52 GMT
#174
Lina is the scary one to get out of control, though.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 19:54 GMT
#175
On April 14 2018 04:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Lina is the scary one to get out of control, though.


I think Naix and Nyx+AA should be quite good against Lina. But ofc Lina has a massive damage output if Fnatic manages to set her up. And I don't think Vega has the best answers to chrono, which was why I brought it up as a problem for them
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 20:07 GMT
#176
I guess the weakness of Fnatic's lineup is again that they are pretty weak in smaller groups compared to Vega, somewhat similarly as in g1 against NaVi. They constantly are pretty scared to keep the lanes pushed and can't take advantage of these aegises too well. Also makes successful smokes hard to do
Achaian
Profile Joined April 2015
United States3369 Posts
April 13 2018 20:17 GMT
#177
EE matching his love for chinese cartoons with his love for chinese bkbs
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 20:21:35
April 13 2018 20:21 GMT
#178
--- Nuked ---
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
April 13 2018 20:21 GMT
#179
These Nyx initiations are really good. Feels like it's too difficult for Fnatic to get a good jump themselves and Vega is doing a good job not giving any freebies
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 20:25 GMT
#180
The Jakiro is actually doing work and has been all game, it really should be noted.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 20:31:27
April 13 2018 20:27 GMT
#181
On April 14 2018 05:21 plasmidghost wrote:
Fnatic was looking really solid with pieliedie, hopefully today's abysmal showings against tier 2-3 teams convinces them to use him again


EE's interview before this game was pretty weird in that regard. Felt to me like the situation isn't about them thinking about replacing him but that something happened with PLD that forced him to sit out for a while and they don't want to say what it actually was

This is just speculation of course, but anyway their official explanation about improving team cohesion or whatever seems made up, and the interview didn't give the impression that it was a straight up replacement either
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
April 13 2018 20:31 GMT
#182
is the macropyre talent worth it?
i feel like jakiro with the icepath talent and an octarine is near unbeatable
FTD
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 20:35:52
April 13 2018 20:35 GMT
#183
The Jakiro really is annoying to deal with even really late. I underestimated it quite a bit in my mind

After the BKBs go out Fnatic is in big trouble in every fight
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 13 2018 20:35 GMT
#184
Jakiro could probably cover the entire screen with 2 macropyres
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
April 13 2018 20:36 GMT
#185
On April 14 2018 05:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
is the macropyre talent worth it?
i feel like jakiro with the icepath talent and an octarine is near unbeatable


Vega has a lot of chain-stun already. Macropyre damage can be the deciding factor in these initiations.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 20:36 GMT
#186
On April 14 2018 05:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
is the macropyre talent worth it?
i feel like jakiro with the icepath talent and an octarine is near unbeatable


Underlord's pit is supposed to lock them down. If they get them locked down, it's over.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
April 13 2018 20:38 GMT
#187
What did I say?
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Mosoball
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland686 Posts
April 13 2018 20:38 GMT
#188
Adam's play feels super lackluster
Nyan
Profile Joined April 2015
Germany1931 Posts
April 13 2018 20:39 GMT
#189
Universe
?=・ェ・=) oʞǝu (^=˃ᆺ˂) oʞǝu (=xェx=) oʞǝu (=^-ω-^=) ( ⓛ ω ⓛ *) oʞǝu (ㅇㅅㅇ❀) oʞǝu (=ↀωↀ=)✧ oʞǝu (=・ェ・=?
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 20:39 GMT
#190
On April 14 2018 05:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
What did I say?


Refresher Pure-dmg Macropyre for the win.
Achaian
Profile Joined April 2015
United States3369 Posts
April 13 2018 20:40 GMT
#191
On April 14 2018 05:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
What did I say?


my goodness gracious GREAT BALLS OF FIRE
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 13 2018 20:41 GMT
#192
--- Nuked ---
Mosoball
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland686 Posts
April 13 2018 20:41 GMT
#193
I feel like you ban jak and vega is lost thou
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 20:44 GMT
#194
SG was more prepared for Vega's drafts. Let that sink in.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 13 2018 20:45 GMT
#195
On April 14 2018 05:41 Mosoball wrote:
I feel like you ban jak and vega is lost thou


It goes a lot harder for them.
Mosoball
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland686 Posts
April 13 2018 21:24 GMT
#196
On April 14 2018 05:45 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 05:41 Mosoball wrote:
I feel like you ban jak and vega is lost thou


It goes a lot harder for them.


Yea you could see against SG they played terrible without having the Jakiro as their anchor. SG knew about the pick I guess
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
April 14 2018 07:34 GMT
#197
No Day 3 thread yet, but at least Fnatic is the last series of the day.
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