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On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now.
I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions.
It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Azarkon keeps confusing EG for "American", how Chinese of him.
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Why are they not American?
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On July 15 2016 07:19 lolfail9001 wrote:
Azarkon keeps confusing EG for "American", how Chinese of him.
Hey 3 Americans on secret, 2 on coL, 1 on DC and TNC, while Europe has no player at the West of Germany, I want a home team 
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On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million.
Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore.
While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level.
Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series.
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On July 15 2016 07:29 MetalMercury wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million. Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore. While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level. Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series.
Yet I think the best teams have won all of them, except one.
2011: Natus Vincere was the best team, no question
2012: The best Chinese team won, and they were ahead this tournament, so again not much question
2013: Alliance was the best team, no question
2014: we can argue that Newbee wasn't the best team
2015: PPD's team was the best all year, the only other argument being Secret, which had a personal issue break the team
In this case, we can also make the argument that we already know who will win, else be a very high favorite, in 2016.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On July 15 2016 07:24 Azarkon wrote:
Why are they not American?
they are American. But American dota is not EG.
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If wings pick drow 3-th game im rooting for them to lose every game they play for the next year!
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Ban Drow next game Navi, 2-1, let's do this.
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On July 15 2016 07:34 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:29 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million. Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore. While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level. Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series. Yet I think the best teams have won all of them, except one. 2011: Natus Vincere was the best team, no question 2012: The best Chinese team won, and they were ahead this tournament, so again not much question 2013: Alliance was the best team, no question 2014: we can argue that Newbee wasn't the best team 2015: PPD's team; at best an argument can be made for Secret
I would argue that LGD was better than iG at TI 2 personally, but I can understand your point. That said, even if you accept that 3 out of 5 were the best, that's still only a success rate of 60% if you're looking for the best team.
All of this is a long way of saying that while we can be pretty certain of the teams that will challenge for the title at TI, we cannot know them all ahead of time for sure (CDEC last year, Orange at TI 3) and even if we knew all of them there is a reasonable chance that any of them could end up champion, and there is at least one Chinese team (and potentially two) in this group of teams.
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On July 15 2016 07:39 SatsuinoHado wrote:
If wings pick drow 3-th game im rooting for them to lose every game they play for the next year!
Drow is first pick/ban in China, it worked both games, losing because of their own mistakes in game 1. I guess they'll pick it again unfortunately.
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On July 15 2016 07:39 MetalMercury wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:34 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:29 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million. Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore. While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level. Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series. Yet I think the best teams have won all of them, except one. 2011: Natus Vincere was the best team, no question 2012: The best Chinese team won, and they were ahead this tournament, so again not much question 2013: Alliance was the best team, no question 2014: we can argue that Newbee wasn't the best team 2015: PPD's team; at best an argument can be made for Secret I would argue that LGD was better than iG at TI 2 personally, but I can understand your point. That said, even if you accept that 3 out of 5 were the best, that's still only a success rate of 60% if you're looking for the best team. All of this is a long way of saying that while we can be pretty certain of the teams that will challenge for the title at TI, we cannot know them all ahead of time for sure (CDEC last year, Orange at TI 3) and even if we knew all of them there is a reasonable chance that any of them could end up champion, and there is at least one Chinese team (and potentially two) in this group of teams.
I think it says a lot that no team has won the international without being one of the two top teams of the year, except for the year in which Newbee won. I'd say the rest were all won by one of the two favorites going in. Yes, a team that is not known has gotten into the final, but has never won it.
So while favorites can lose, and not favorites can go far, one still has to believe that the two best teams going into this year's international are both Western, and that the team that wins will be between them. Based on past results, I'd say China winning will be around 20% at best, but in case Newbee does it, that'd be the second time that they've gone against the rule, and might show that Newbee is the one team that we cannot judge using results before the international.
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Damn still hasn't banned drow.
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On July 15 2016 07:46 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:39 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:34 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:29 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million. Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore. While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level. Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series. Yet I think the best teams have won all of them, except one. 2011: Natus Vincere was the best team, no question 2012: The best Chinese team won, and they were ahead this tournament, so again not much question 2013: Alliance was the best team, no question 2014: we can argue that Newbee wasn't the best team 2015: PPD's team; at best an argument can be made for Secret I would argue that LGD was better than iG at TI 2 personally, but I can understand your point. That said, even if you accept that 3 out of 5 were the best, that's still only a success rate of 60% if you're looking for the best team. All of this is a long way of saying that while we can be pretty certain of the teams that will challenge for the title at TI, we cannot know them all ahead of time for sure (CDEC last year, Orange at TI 3) and even if we knew all of them there is a reasonable chance that any of them could end up champion, and there is at least one Chinese team (and potentially two) in this group of teams. I think it says a lot that no team has won the international without being one of the two top teams of the year, except for the year in which Newbee won. I'd say 4 out of 5 international tournaments were won by one of the two favorites going in. Yes, a team that is not known has gotten into the final, but has never won it. So while favorites can lose, and not favorites can go far, one still has to believe that the two best teams going into this year's international are both Western, and that the team that wins will be between them. Based on past results, I'd say China winning will be around 20% at best.
Newbee winning was not just a lucky peak in but this year was dominated by Chinese with DK/VG/newbee/iG being a solid top4, each being the top1 for a maximum of 3 or 4 weeks before another team would take this position. It jsut happened newbee were the top1 team during TI. They even won the following big 500K$ tourney after TI despite having started their RPG slump.
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On July 15 2016 07:39 MetalMercury wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:34 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:29 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million. Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore. While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level. Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series. Yet I think the best teams have won all of them, except one. 2011: Natus Vincere was the best team, no question 2012: The best Chinese team won, and they were ahead this tournament, so again not much question 2013: Alliance was the best team, no question 2014: we can argue that Newbee wasn't the best team 2015: PPD's team; at best an argument can be made for Secret I would argue that LGD was better than iG at TI 2 personally, but I can understand your point. That said, even if you accept that 3 out of 5 were the best, that's still only a success rate of 60% if you're looking for the best team. All of this is a long way of saying that while we can be pretty certain of the teams that will challenge for the title at TI, we cannot know them all ahead of time for sure (CDEC last year, Orange at TI 3) and even if we knew all of them there is a reasonable chance that any of them could end up champion, and there is at least one Chinese team (and potentially two) in this group of teams.
And the game has changed a lot in the last year, if you look at majors as pseudo TI it's pretty clear that form before the event is hardly as good at predicting the winner as it was before. Nobody expected OG to win the month before Frankfurt, nor Secret before Shangai.
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On July 15 2016 07:55 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 07:39 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:34 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:29 MetalMercury wrote:On July 15 2016 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 07:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 15 2016 06:59 Azarkon wrote:On July 15 2016 06:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
If you watched Nanyang, you'd know that there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about China at TI6. They've got 3 weeks to get their coordination fixed, as none of the top Tier non-Chinese teams are going to be that inconsistent. We're not looking at "Shanghai-level" bad, but what we saw of the top teams wasn't that good. The way I see it, the West has higher quality teams at the top; as such when they start practicing hard with the lower teams, it's a lot easier to improve as a region, because the lower teams learn very fast from practicing against them. This is why the region with the best teams, even in case all their other teams suck, can be called the best region. For example, I think America was a lot worse back when PPD's team was doing bad; now that PPD's team has started making a come back, the rest of the American teams are also improving and should be competitive in the international though they won't place above PPD's team. I'll be honest about this: I think China's biggest problem has been the fall of CIS Dota. 1-2 CIS Teams + Clown9 missing from tournaments means that the top-tier Chinese teams don't get free victories like they used to get. There's a whole lot less throwing in these tournaments. Granted, Alliance & Na'Vi are both at TI6, but VG.R, Wings & (potentially) Ehome are also really "throw-y" right now. I think the fall of Russia Dota specifically has a lot to do with the fact that Western European and American teams have simply improve, so you can't say that them not being there is the problem with China, rather that the problem with China is also the problem of Russia: the rise of Western European and American teams, and that we're simply seeing the effect in other regions. It's been a long time since Western Europe + America have lost a tournament worth over one million. Yeah but that sample size is pretty small. It's only six tournaments (2015 DAC, TI 5, and then 3 majors), and a Chinese team got second in two of them and two teams from China got 3rd and 4th at Manila. Plus, some of those are so far in history that they aren't really relevant anymore. While I think you are really underrating Newbee as a team, I do agree with you that I think China is unlikely to have a shot of winning outside of Newbee. I'd put LGD on the same tier with Team Secret, Fnatic, and MVP as teams that should do well but really kinda cap out at 4th place at best given what we've seen so far and I also don't think Wings or VG.R are top level. Remember, it's all probabilities. Just because a team isn't the best doesn't mean they can't win the international. In fact, it's very unlikely that the best team wins the tournament with the shear number of teams competing and the randomness of a best of 3 series. Yet I think the best teams have won all of them, except one. 2011: Natus Vincere was the best team, no question 2012: The best Chinese team won, and they were ahead this tournament, so again not much question 2013: Alliance was the best team, no question 2014: we can argue that Newbee wasn't the best team 2015: PPD's team; at best an argument can be made for Secret I would argue that LGD was better than iG at TI 2 personally, but I can understand your point. That said, even if you accept that 3 out of 5 were the best, that's still only a success rate of 60% if you're looking for the best team. All of this is a long way of saying that while we can be pretty certain of the teams that will challenge for the title at TI, we cannot know them all ahead of time for sure (CDEC last year, Orange at TI 3) and even if we knew all of them there is a reasonable chance that any of them could end up champion, and there is at least one Chinese team (and potentially two) in this group of teams. And the game has changed a lot in the last year, if you look at majors as pseudo TI it's pretty clear that form before the event is hardly as good at predicting the winner as it was before. Nobody expected OG to win the month before Frankfurt, nor Secret before Shangai.
Yeah, add a rather fresh .88 + a letter a patch and who know who will come up with something unexpected, like CDEC's playstyle at TI5 or OG at Frankfurt (they were one dimensional with their dual defensive supports at this event, now they're monsters).
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EPT
