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[TI4] Phase 1 - Wild Card - Page 149

Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
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Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7593 Posts
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2961
Well then....if MVP play like they did vs VP they have my vote but Liquid looking pretty solid.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 20:10:35
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2962
On July 09 2014 05:06 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 05:05 KristofferAG wrote:
On July 09 2014 05:04 stuchiu wrote:
On July 09 2014 05:02 FiWiFaKi wrote:
On July 09 2014 05:01 stuchiu wrote:
On July 09 2014 05:01 FiWiFaKi wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:59 stuchiu wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:58 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:56 FiWiFaKi wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[quote]

Arrow over Titan is laughable.


Calculations based on previous results, ELO's, and all that fun stuff. Doesn't take into account some teams performing better/worse on LAN's etc.


I'm not even taking into account LANs. Arrow has looked really shaky in the last few weeks.


This reminds me of that time when everyone from EU kept telling me ForGG would beat Mvp because aligulac said it was 80% favorable for ForGG or some shit.


Well Mvp had a 20% chance of winning. Not necessarily that Aligulac was wrong.


But Aligulac was wrong.


Why was Aligulac wrong? Aligulac didn't say that Mvp can't win. It's all statistics and probability.


For rating EU/NA/SEA players equally to KR players and thus creating ELO farming situations making all cross regional predictions useless, but because of the general indolence of the populace, no one bothers to remember that and take it as an all knowing authority.

Blindly trusting a prediction that is based solely on former results and disregarding a lot of other factors like regional separation of players is just dumb.


You can't necessarily trust it, you have to look for sources of error. But just because the player with a 20% chance to win according to aligulac won, doesn't mean Aligulac was flawed.


I'd argue that prediction was flawed. It's like predicting KingKong would smash Stork because he's higher on the list as he has a better ELO than Stork.
Moderator
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2963
Poll: Recommend CIS vs. Liquid Game 2?

Yes (10)
 
45%

If you have time (2)
 
9%

No (10)
 
45%

22 total votes

Your vote: Recommend CIS vs. Liquid Game 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): If you have time
(Vote): No


Poll: Recommend CIS vs. Liquid Game 3?

Yes (16)
 
67%

If you have time (5)
 
21%

No (3)
 
13%

24 total votes

Your vote: Recommend CIS vs. Liquid Game 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): If you have time
(Vote): No

ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Valhalla44
Profile Joined May 2010
Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2964
On July 09 2014 05:07 BurningSera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 05:06 AciD_DotA wrote:
So who's picking Liquid over MVP in the final? It's hard to judge from both of these series since it's been so one-sided, but both teams like pretty even right now.


just dropped like 1$ value on Liquid, MVP played like a shit and won. Liquid actually looks good.


To be honest MVP impressed me more because even if bad laning stage, they comeback through team fights which is very impressive.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2965
EZ4ENCE
jntkflow
Profile Joined August 2011
United States337 Posts
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2966
CIS played that slow-shit trash 4p1 style that clueless nerds were praising as "perfect, disciplined play".

In reality, they were just another tier2 team that could not find themselves a real style. Well played by Liquid in taking out the representatives of an vastly overrated region.
trifecta
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6795 Posts
July 08 2014 20:10 GMT
#2967
On July 09 2014 05:09 Vallelol wrote:
SO disappointed with the production quality so far


TI4 still in beta. never forget
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 20:11:50
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2968
On July 09 2014 05:09 Lucumo wrote:
Meh, sad games, sad ending. Go MVP, please crush them

the fuck man

On July 09 2014 05:10 Valhalla44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 05:07 BurningSera wrote:
On July 09 2014 05:06 AciD_DotA wrote:
So who's picking Liquid over MVP in the final? It's hard to judge from both of these series since it's been so one-sided, but both teams like pretty even right now.


just dropped like 1$ value on Liquid, MVP played like a shit and won. Liquid actually looks good.


To be honest MVP impressed me more because even if bad laning stage, they comeback through team fights which is very impressive.

felt more like VP playing really terrible
:)
Flacracker
Profile Joined February 2014
1116 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2969
On TL and not wanting TL to win. Traitors everywhere.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2970
This play-in was always gonna be hard to watch for me. Huge Black fan, but I badly want liquid to succeed and of course I'd love for a korean team to partake in the real tournament since I really do care about the improvement of the Korean scene. Glad that VP lost though, although even then the G/AA storylines are saddening.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2971
On July 09 2014 05:10 jntkflow wrote:
CIS played that slow-shit trash 4p1 style that clueless nerds were praising as "perfect, disciplined play".

In reality, they were just another tier2 team that could not find themselves a real style. Well played by Liquid in taking out the representatives of an vastly overrated region.

Hey Azarkon
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 20:13:06
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2972
On July 09 2014 05:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 05:03 Count9 wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:56 Count9 wrote:
On July 09 2014 04:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Simulation for odds from: http://2p.com/7512627_1/The-International-4-Predictions-by-noxville.htm


Chance of each team being one of the “Top 10”:

DK 99.98%
iG 99.96%
Newbee 99.94%
EG 98.46%
Empire 91.67%
VG 83.99%
Alliance 79.87%
mousesports 77.62%
Arrow 57.34%
LGD 47.70%
Titan 42.75%
Fnatic 42.21%
C9 41.52%
Na'Vi 31.10%
Wildcard* 5.32%
Na'Vi.US 0.57%

That looks like a really really really awful monte carlo simulation. Weird since datdota does good work.


Honestly it looks quite good to me based on what we've seen. LGD is pretty low since they haven't been good for very long, Navi has been bad... What do you disagree with?

Only 1 mil iterations. Half of the teams have a 0.00% chance of winning in a monte carlo. 16 min runtime that was I/O bound. All of those are sketchy as hell. With monte carlo you want to run as long as you can that's reasonable. If it was a 16 min runtime I have no idea why they didn't run it way longer. Similarly, Empire > Alliance feels like their decay factor on ELO is either non-existant or really low. W/e, just stats, but I think they should've chosen a different simulation or run this one with different parameters/longer (see: the guy who ran he WCS simulation a season ago. Almost every one had a chance, no matter how small it was. That's more expected from a good simulation)


1 million iterations for a 16 man round robin is A LOT. You need more iterations when you have 10 tournaments to worry about.

And 0.00% seems reasonable for a team like Navi.US. I'd give 200/1 odds if someone wanted to be bet that Navi.US will win TI4.

It's not one team has a 0% win chance, half of the teams have a 0.00% chance. If that doesn't set off red flags for a monte carlo I don't know what will. Even with the unique bracket/pool system, that's absurd. Look at the world cup simulations, even the worse teams sometimes get 1/100 of a %, half would be simply a bad simulation. 1 mil is not a lot, it's ok. But when you have parameters that can change placings dramatically like ELO time window, ELO decay factor, and probably an arbitrary weight for all those things + head to head % you really need as many runs as you can get or just 1 mil runs with differing parameters to see which parameter favors which team. This feels like a lazy "we coded a simulation, here you go."
Shymon
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States620 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2973
yeah really, most tournies have put this too shame production wise so far. hopefully it picks up for the main event.
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2974
if we lose to the koreans we would be the laughing stock starting today until ti5
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2975
On July 09 2014 05:10 trifecta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 05:09 Vallelol wrote:
SO disappointed with the production quality so far


TI4 still in beta. never forget


This is basically alpha
Valhalla44
Profile Joined May 2010
Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
July 08 2014 20:11 GMT
#2976
On July 09 2014 05:10 jntkflow wrote:
CIS played that slow-shit trash 4p1 style that clueless nerds were praising as "perfect, disciplined play".

In reality, they were just another tier2 team that could not find themselves a real style. Well played by Liquid in taking out the representatives of an vastly overrated region.


China overrated. mmmmm wheres that gif not sure if serious or just hater.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
July 08 2014 20:12 GMT
#2977
whos the first and third guy from the left again?
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
July 08 2014 20:12 GMT
#2978
On July 09 2014 05:11 Flacracker wrote:
On TL and not wanting TL to win. Traitors everywhere.

Lol like that's relevant
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
July 08 2014 20:12 GMT
#2979
[image loading]

Time to bring in a ringer.
Moderator
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 08 2014 20:12 GMT
#2980
Poll: Head?

Team Liquid (11)
 
73%

MVP Phoenix (4)
 
27%

15 total votes

Your vote: Head?

(Vote): MVP Phoenix
(Vote): Team Liquid


Poll: Heart?

Team Liquid (9)
 
56%

MVP Phoenix (7)
 
44%

16 total votes

Your vote: Heart?

(Vote): MVP Phoenix
(Vote): Team Liquid

ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
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