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[D]Toxic Players
I'm having trouble dealing with the toxic and silent players in the game and could use some advice on finding a better playing experience.
I've played about 40 hours so far. At first I thought it was bad luck getting so many bm teammates but it's been consistent. It's worn me down honestly, I'm losing heart a little!
Basically, 3/4 games nobody will talk or work together, or just act rudely in various ways. Very lonely. 1/4 games we get 1+ toxic monsters. 1/10 are socially pleasant, in my 'mere' 40 hours experience anyway.
My Current "Solutions"
1- Git Gud. I don't seem to suck enough any more to be the target of the 'noob' insults, but it doesn't stop other kinds of rudeness. I'm sure however that when I rank up a little this cycle will repeat...
2- Find non-jerks. I added a few guys who seemed not too bad, but (lol) they've been the worst overall- just directed at others, not me. He spent an entire game yelling at a guy who said it was his first game ever, telling him he was useless, to quit, etc. At least he likes me... lol!
3- Try forums, find polite teammates there? Anyone else just starting out?
4- Other? Can you recommend anything? I'd honestly rather play with people who are awful at the game if they would just play nice.
tldr: What is your strategy for making the social aspect of your team games pleasant? How do you deal with strings of 5-10 games where everyone is toxic or silent?
Note: I wasn't sure where to post this. I think strategy is best since nobody can get better at the game if they haven't figured out how to deal with other players. I feel that it has to part of your playing strategy, no?
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Imo, when you are at mediocre mmr and not in a party :
1) Never play AP, that is were the assholes are at in mediocre mmr, play CD or CM (more team oriented atmosphere);
2) Its better to not complain, to teach or flame after an event. Only thing you accomplish is making them as angry or annoyed as you are. Nothing productive will come out of that, except from you being reported for communication abuse;
3) tryharding vocally below 5k mmr is stupid, most play dota to have fun and dont really care alot about their mm-rank;
4) dont flame itembuilds, if it truly makes you angry just silently report the motherfucker, that'll teach him;
5) There are enough coreplayers at mediocre mmr but almost never enough supportplayers. Just pick or ask for a support that can easily find some gold like crystal maiden and ward whole game solo if you have too without bitching about it, gold is an overrated resource in mediocre mmr anyway. Besides that playing support can be alot more fun then playing a core, alot more active approach to the game.
Dont bitch and try to have some fun, you are in the scrubzone and not EE yet.
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I find that being polite myself is a good start. And that adding "My Bad!" to the chat wheel cuts down the flaming further. And that, if someone flames me for being polite or admitting my mistakes, the best thing I can do is not respond.
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What is your strategy for making the social aspect of your team games pleasant? How do you deal with strings of 5-10 games where everyone is toxic or silent?
In my games since i play SEA server normally i'd have 2-4 toxic players every game. I just ignore the shit they say to me or anyone. The best solution so far is that you don't respond to the rude people since usually it makes you lose focus of the game just mute them. Just mute them if they get annoying and they become unbearable and it's affecting your plays. After muting pinging works really well for communication.
You can also try to always put a positive attitude and stuff.
Even I myself can get really toxic at times when i'm having a bad day or if the enemy team constantly BM's but if not i usually just mute those who are toxic.
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I'm normally just nice to random pubs and it seems to work out, when I duo queue I find my friends get much more upset with our pubs than I do just because I don't get upset when they do silly game losing things. lol Just try to enjoy yourself and hope for the best 
Also try to stack with as many people as possible that don't get angry every single game. It helps a lot xD
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On May 31 2015 01:10 govie wrote:
Imo, when you are at mediocre mmr and not in a party :
1) Never play AP, that is were the assholes are at in mediocre mmr, play CD or CM (more team oriented atmosphere);
I would agree with this, but you can still win decently in AP, you just have to be prepared for more dumbasses and n00bs in AP at lower mmr.
2) Its better to not complain, to teach or flame after an event. Only thing you accomplish is making them as angry or annoyed as you are. Nothing productive will come out of that, except from you being reported for communication abuse;
Flame? No. Teach or point things out? Yes, absolutely. The biggest problem down at lower mmrs is that they are egotistical and conceited, usually not intelligent enough to realize they're playing with a much higher mmr smurf or something. Its only much later they wonder how you got so rich or so huge while all you do is shake your head knowing full well how you did it was basically ignoring their stupid ideas and playing the game how you know it has to (this only works if you're really higher than them though, otherwise you just will throw the game). If you don't always have coaching mentalities, you'll never improve yourself. If they are actually ready to get out of 2k-3k shit, they will listen and follow you rather than lash out defensive of their bad habits.
3) tryharding vocally below 5k mmr is stupid, most play dota to have fun and dont really care alot about their mm-rank;
Holy shit you actually used that word as an derogatory term. Look man, the instant you use "tryhard" as an insult, it puts you in a certain category of people. A very inferior category of people at that. If you are in ranked, everyone is trying to get better and win more games. "tryhard" means someone is stupid enough to try to use "haha you put forth effort into improvement and take things seriously" to put you down. This is a quality that is to be revered and vastly commended. Discouraging people from trying at things has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Lowbies and n00bs will never understand that "tryhards" are the ones who will always be better than them while they stay forever at 2k. More people need to be "tryhard" and then maybe they would suck so bad. However, most all who think "tryhard" is a bad thing will never be smart enough to ever be anything close to good. Their own mentality is too inferior to achieve such results.
4) dont flame itembuilds, if it truly makes you angry just silently report the motherfucker, that'll teach him;
This fits into the same thing as #2. Its your DUTY as a superior player or one on the right path to improvement to play coach and teacher unless they are clearly not listening or are too stupid to follow obvious advice. In which case, mute the entire team and play cores. If you really belong at a higher mmr, your winrate will still be 80% or more. It always is for me.
5) There are enough coreplayers at mediocre mmr but almost never enough supportplayers. Just pick or ask for a support that can easily find some gold like crystal maiden and ward whole game solo if you have too without bitching about it, gold is an overrated resource in mediocre mmr anyway. Besides that playing support can be alot more fun then playing a core, alot more active approach to the game.
Dont bitch and try to have some fun, you are in the scrubzone and not EE yet.
There's a lot of 5k+ players who would disagree with that point of view. All our trials and facts from our latest tests suggest a severe imbalance in how the game gauges performances between cores and supports. The reason these tests were even done is because most supports in 5k+ have had to endure a terrible ordeal just to push their ratings up that high on supports alone in solo qeue. 5k+ mmr smurfs with cores and ignoring trolls/inferior players spouting crap? They'll have 80-90% winrates. A 5k+ suppport mmr smurf doing incredibly well will only manage a 55%-65% winrate even though they definitely don't belong down there. The quality of your cores is everything. Supporting a dumbass gets you nowhere.
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On May 31 2015 03:00 sCCrooked wrote:
A 5k+ suppport mmr smurf doing incredibly well will only manage a 55%-65% winrate even though they definitely don't belong down there. The quality of your cores is everything. Supporting a dumbass gets you nowhere.
You're underestimating good supports imo.
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On May 31 2015 04:00 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2015 03:00 sCCrooked wrote:
A 5k+ suppport mmr smurf doing incredibly well will only manage a 55%-65% winrate even though they definitely don't belong down there. The quality of your cores is everything. Supporting a dumbass gets you nowhere. You're underestimating good supports imo.
I agree. A good support has something like 5000% more impact than a bad support. Between avoiding feeds, ganking for your teammates, and placing good wards, a good support has way more impact than most people give credit for.
On the topic of dealing with 'toxic' players, what I do is I mute the entire enemy team from the loading screen, and then instantly mute anybody who flames, or talks in a way that makes me feel depressed, angry, or another negative emotion. Tbh communication isn't necessary in most pubs, aside from pings. This is because you can play off of what your teammates are doing just from the minimap, so you can see if they're grouping or spreading out or going for a gank or w/e.
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It's as simple as the One-Strike Policy. Give everyone only one chance to piss you off. The moment a transgression occurs immediately mute that bitch, you can communicate by pings or chat wheel messages well enough.
I'm also the kind of guy who gets EXTREMELY pissed off when enemies say "ez" after a game, so if I'm losing really badly or if I feel like I'm going to lose against an enemy who has proven to be incredibly talkative or annoying during the game, I will mute them before they push into the base. Really there's pretty much no need to talk to enemies anyways unless you are negotiating for a pause.
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On May 31 2015 01:10 govie wrote:
Imo, when you are at mediocre mmr and not in a party :
1) Never play AP, that is were the assholes are at in mediocre mmr, play CD or CM (more team oriented atmosphere);
2) Its better to not complain, to teach or flame after an event. Only thing you accomplish is making them as angry or annoyed as you are. Nothing productive will come out of that, except from you being reported for communication abuse;
3) tryharding vocally below 5k mmr is stupid, most play dota to have fun and dont really care alot about their mm-rank;
4) dont flame itembuilds, if it truly makes you angry just silently report the motherfucker, that'll teach him;
5) There are enough coreplayers at mediocre mmr but almost never enough supportplayers. Just pick or ask for a support that can easily find some gold like crystal maiden and ward whole game solo if you have too without bitching about it, gold is an overrated resource in mediocre mmr anyway. Besides that playing support can be alot more fun then playing a core, alot more active approach to the game.
Dont bitch and try to have some fun, you are in the scrubzone and not EE yet.
"Never play AP" is stupid. CD and CM take tremendous time to find a match and always have risks of rating discrepancy since there are few players queuing. Your sense of improvement will also be heavily skewed.
On May 31 2015 02:37 ChunderBoy wrote:
grow a thick skin This is the soundest advice. If you get flamed just mute, report (even if you have 0 reports left as it gives you the illusion of control), and let out a sigh "oh well" after the game.
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There is something to be said about growing a thick skin. It is probably the best advice; although, it is pretty absurd that the community is so toxic that this is a necessary requirement to play.
Do you have any real life friends who play? It can be nice to have someone to bitch about other players with who you know already. I almost never play unranked all pick without someone I know and enjoy playing with in the group.
The other option is to stay positive. If you are positive, you can help the players on your team stay more positive. It doesn't always work, though.
Also, there is the option to just mute them. Not the best for teamwork, but sometimes it is necessary.
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On May 31 2015 08:45 soanparlell wrote:
There is something to be said about growing a thick skin. It is probably the best advice; although, it is pretty absurd that the community is so toxic that this is a necessary requirement to play.
When the 2 guys who are 500 mmr lower than everyone else in the game insta lock mid and carry and lose both lanes then you spend the next 40 minutes of your life losing it's hard to stay positive.
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A bad support can just as easily lose mid or safelane if he does stupid things like getting solo killed while trying to secure a rune, giving a free kill to the enemy mid, or leeching xp and screwing up creep equilibrium in the safelane.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On May 31 2015 02:37 ChunderBoy wrote:
grow a thick skin
Best advice in the thread.
It's tough but if you want to get in the "winning mindset" you'll have to. There are some recent blogs that highlight the concept of how to rise thru the ranks in pubs, and very little of it discusses your personal mechanical abilities - it is very psychological. Both for yourself and how you interact with your team.
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You'll likely see a lot of games before you see a raise in the quality of your games.
As for your very own improvement, there's a pretty big learning curve for you yet as imo, 40 hours is barely anything.
You'll begin to notice that playing a certain style and cooperating with said toxic players usually makes a better game overall even if you don't enjoy it at first.
If you read the Climbing the Ladder final edit on liquiddota, there's some good information to explain the learning process for players in this game. If you find you can't cooperate or bend to players with bad or selfish ideas, you just gotta keep looking for better gaming friends.
Don't be presumptuous about rules or playstyles. Constantly improve in all facets. Keep playing, go.
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If you are new, just don't respond but don't mute them either. Some advice can be good or bad, but you probably won't have enough game knowledge to judge, so just keep an open mind. Mute if they are purely retarded though.
Learning the game will probably be the funnest phase of your dota life IMO. I had the same experience even though I played dota1 before but stopped for like >5 years. Everything including items and heroes changed so much.
Your improvement is hugely dependent on you instead of teammates. Play every roles/heroes and learn everything about the game. Just enjoy.
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I'm sorry but when someone plays 2-16 with questionable plays all game long and then curses me in 1 little mistake I made after covering up his ass all that time just makes me really angry.
You get 72 LH in 10 min and miss a deny? "Wow you definitely must be a retarded better go play lol." LOL.
This is why I mostly mute everyone.
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You need to ask yourself what youre trying to get out of Dota. If you want to have fun, or just play casually, then I would suggest finding yourself some friends who are nice or to play unranked where people are less toxic.
If you're trying to improve at the game in a competative sense, or what to improve your MMR, then you really need to make sure that's what youre focussing on. Toxicity is something that all players need to deal with, so you can take it upon yourself to take it as a challenge rather than a burden.
alternatively you can just mute everyone, shrug.
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Many will tell you you are the problem, but that could very well be nonsense or the truth. The only way for you to deal with this sea of variability is to handle some shit, namely your own shit.
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On May 31 2015 01:10 govie wrote:
Imo, when you are at mediocre mmr and not in a party :
1) Never play AP, that is were the assholes are at in mediocre mmr, play CD or CM (more team oriented atmosphere);
2) Its better to not complain, to teach or flame after an event. Only thing you accomplish is making them as angry or annoyed as you are. Nothing productive will come out of that, except from you being reported for communication abuse;
3) tryharding vocally below 5k mmr is stupid, most play dota to have fun and dont really care alot about their mm-rank;
4) dont flame itembuilds, if it truly makes you angry just silently report the motherfucker, that'll teach him;
5) There are enough coreplayers at mediocre mmr but almost never enough supportplayers. Just pick or ask for a support that can easily find some gold like crystal maiden and ward whole game solo if you have too without bitching about it, gold is an overrated resource in mediocre mmr anyway. Besides that playing support can be alot more fun then playing a core, alot more active approach to the game.
Dont bitch and try to have some fun, you are in the scrubzone and not EE yet.
CM is a joke. You get captains who scream 'I AM THE CAPTAIN' if you make a request/suggestion, pick themselves a mid hero and then feed when somebody else takes the hero they wanted. This is not even rare. Also tryhards are really toxic in their own right, and despite apparently wanting to win they are the first to rage and blame.
Playing support is the worst, because you are sacrificing yourself for other players and they will still treat you like dirt.
Just accept that 50% of the community is beyond redemption and ignore them, then be the positivity that you want to see in your games. It will make a difference. Not enough to win you every winnable game, but enough to make the game more enjoyable. I had a game today with a WK who fed in lane, blamed his support (who actually played well throughout the game) and then fed himself 15 times and spent all his money on couriers to feed some more. Raging doesn't help in this situation; encourage the players who are not being cancerous and do your best. If your teammate is feeding it just makes it more of a challenge - which isn't so bad. We won that game 4v6.
Also I have many thousands of hours played and I still get called a noob so I don't think you're out of the woods yet .
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Open the console,
Type dota_chat_mute_all x
voice_enable x
Substitute x for 1 when you are just playing solo pubs and need no flaming to ruin your games, or
substitute x for 0 back again when you feel the need to "make plays" with your teammates or when playing with friends who don't flame.
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SoCal8910 Posts
yeah honestly if someone is just being an asshole the easiest thing to do is mute and carry about your life.
there's nothing you can do, so just play the best you know you can without that noise in the back of your head 
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I've actually almost never had to deal with bm from the enemy team, it's always teammates.
I remember this from Left 4 Dead. Back then, you were allowed to leave a game or kick somebody mid-game. Solved so many problems, let you actually get a fun team going. You know, a team you want to play with- good AND pleasant
Now, in dota, that person owns a small part of the your next hour. Of course, you're the one to get punished if you were to try to leave the situation. I guess there's some horrible all random mode you have to play then with other toxics :p
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow?
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there's a misconception about the "mute all chat" checkbox (and the corresponding console command, dota_chat_mute_all x)... it doesn't mute just enemy chat, it mutes literally ALL chat, including from your own team and yourself... if you check it you'll still see chatwheel and pings and hear voice but you won't see any chat (you can type and you won't see it pop up yourself but it'll still send)
and yes the idea is to just not care "somehow"... focus on your own play and trying to win the game, if the game is truly lost and you're on a support, you can multitask or something...
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All pick is cancerous. Captain's draft is all I played in ranked when it was available and now I play exclusively captains. 50% of the time I'm solo queue the rest of the time im 2/3 man q'd. Captain's isn't necessarily cancer free, but if you care about winning and are interested in "pro doto" then you should be playing captains. The people playing all pick are not playing for the same reason as you and most of the time it will be frustrating even when you are winning.
Be as nice as you can and mute bads immediately. Make a suggestion once and let it go. You're not teaching anyone how to play if they dont want to be taught.
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On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow?
Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people?
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow?
well yeah it all boils down to not caring. how you get to that is up to you. u can mute ur teammates so that u have nothing to care about. or u can just grow a thick skin.
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I'd suggest not mute all from the beginning since you can miss opportunity to have good games. Sometimes chat works well.
Majority of the games, toxic players are there from the beginning and you can understand even at the picking phase. I mute those guys fast(like "we lost", "why did you pick that idiot" etc..). Then sometimes people get too excited and douchey, I mute them afterwards.
Yesterday I mute a guy who tries to command my skill build because he saw pros do the otherwise. He defend himself by "giving advice" but it was extremely annoying to comment on some build without looking at how the game proceeds. I was dist and level the nuke because i have to fend of the opponent wr to create space to roam around and I develop little trust to full teamwork and level full glimpse later. He didn't show any attention to our lane etc.. and I didn't pay any attention to his pro instincts.
Single mute is your friend, also Dota remembers them and they stay in mute forever.
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SoCal8910 Posts
yeah I mean if I had muted everyone from the start, I wouldn't have met several of the people I talk to and play with regularly.
but if someone is being a douche, especially if you don't already have a thick skin, you gotta mute them..the game just isn't fun that way and tilting can result!
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On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people?
The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way.
Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out.
Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them.
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even if you have a thick skin people constantly bitching and whining can still distract you and throw you off your game, so nothing else to do other than mute.
but its stupid you cant mute chat wheel stuff and pings. seeing > Good game. Well played. as soon as the slightest thing doesnt go our way is just as annoying as typed out flame
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SoCal8910 Posts
dunno I think that you sorta need to change your thinking when it comes to the good game well played stuff.
if you view it as someone being a douche then ofc its gonna drag you down. but if you view it as someone just fucking around and being an asshat..then its funny.
IMO the best way to win games in lower brackets is to psychologically damage the enemy team so spamming ggwp or typing to them is actually hilarious and definitely wins games.
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On June 02 2015 22:24 ThePianoDentist wrote:
even if you have a thick skin people constantly bitching and whining can still distract you and throw you off your game, so nothing else to do other than mute.
but its stupid you cant mute chat wheel stuff and pings. seeing > Good game. Well played. as soon as the slightest thing doesnt go our way is just as annoying as typed out flame
If you are really affected by an occasional chat wheel stuff and getting tilted out of it, you really need to grow a slightly thicker skin. I mean life is hard you know.
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Doesn't you muting them in game also mute the chat wheel? Pings still work and is useful most of the time.
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On June 03 2015 00:30 Yurie wrote:
Doesn't you muting them in game also mute the chat wheel? Pings still work and is useful most of the time.
I'm pretty sure that yes, it does mute the chat wheel, as somebody who often mutes everybody.
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I just try to be a reasonable person. Don't bother flaming back, and if they are persistent, just mute them, because taking time to respond takes from your game. It ruins your positioning, you miss last hits, you don't get to focus. You talking back to a salty person kind of adds fuel; because now he is more interested in a pissing contest, and will continue to flame. Not good if he is your carry. I don't automute everyone but I mean there's only so much you can do.
Most importantly, just remember it's a game, and you shouldn't let random people over the internet bother you so much.
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1) Positivity at the start of the game certainly helps, greeting people at the start, be ready to be helpful etc.
2) On the thick skin: Never answer a flame or attack, it's not worth ever unless you get flamed for not using a certain skill and you can just ping out your ability and tell the person it has cd or some other hard facts. 9/10 flame wars start because troublemakers start looking for trouble and someone starts defending themselves.
3) Mute troublemakers, or defend the people they are attacking if your other guys seem nice and you might get 4 people together to make them shut up. Most troublemakers cant deal at all with people they dont recognize as throwing the game telling them that they are doing everything to loose the game (ruining the team). If you get attacked by a person more than once within 5 minutes mute them.
4) Making friends is big. I have started to send send friend requests to everyone in every game who doesnt flame in a hard game or seems nice in a good game. Makes friendships a bit less deep, but sorts assholes automatically out. In 5-stacks people rarely flame their own team. You might have to deal with 5-man tryhard stacks (combo picker, global lineups, three counter lanes) all the time, but that's mostly preferable.
On a side note: I play super tryhard ingame, but ap just isnt cm and I dont expect everyone to pick great combos and lane counters instead of a hero they like. CM is for me the tryhard draft mode, not ap. I only expect the last two picks to give us a 3:2 core to support ratio if i play ap.
5) I agree to the dont teach people point somewhat. If someone asks or you have a good out of the box advice, sure nothing wrong with recommending. But crying over spilled milk never helps and is usually atrocious for the team's atmosphere.
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I can offer a few suggestions:
- a bit of casual chat during picks or when bad things happen seems to preempt a lot of bad behavior, guessing because people then feel less anonymous
- be quick to ignore people; personally I do it on the first nasty comment in most cases
- try an alternate server: there seem to be some server-time combinations that are really bad. For example, western europe is way better than eastern us for me, although it does suck to have a poorer connection
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
dont queue eu on a friday/saturday night, the number of drunk (probably russians) is problematic
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On June 03 2015 07:42 Gimpb wrote:
I can offer a few suggestions:
...- a bit of casual chat during picks or when bad things happen seems to preempt a lot of bad behavior, guessing because people then feel less anonymous...
I think this is a good suggestion. In the same vein i also agree with the notion of seeking out your teammates' habits if you know you're more than likely to tilt as the game starts becoming unwinnable.
Of course, this is more from a supporting role but can apply to anybody.
It comes in steps as you figure out where they like to default to farming. You generally see their item progression in terms of how quickly and what choices they're making. If nothing else, you figure out what not to do if you're ever in a similar position.
but generally there are some good ideas to take away from watching other people play. This is if you don't end up watching replays as those are time commitments in their own right.
When you're tilting you start making mistakes and get called out on them, even if many mistakes are coming out from everybody else. A lot of scapegoating occurs and the affordance of cores mattering more in relation to the outcome of a fight usually means the other players jump sides and start flaming you the same too.
So yes, in a lot of ways, your right to defend yourself or to make better claims depends on you having the play to back it up.
In a lot of cases even in the outside world, people who sound very confident and are very assertive become very believable even if what they're actually saying has little to no merit. This is what will happen when players think their opinions are stronger or matter more. At the same time, having absolutely no leadership on a team can be just as bad.
I'm not saying that people who talk a lot are leaders and playmakers. In a game with very little communication they're providing for your team the only words that are visible to read, so in a sense they have a monopoly on your teammates' attention. You had the ability to do the very same.
I think the general idea that many people here are trying to communicate is that if your team is chaotic, it often means you have to take up the leadership role and make something happen.. whether it be amends to the way your team has been playing, calming down the typing, or making sure everybody knows their role in an upcoming teamfight.
Same idea applies while you're in critically losing condition in a game. You are likely to be losing sooner or later, so why not pick a solid strategy and try to make something happen?
Hoping for the other team to make terrible mistakes vs. forcing them to play out of comfort and capitalizing on their mistakes.
Before you build a solid base of game sense and your own precognitions, any whine or flaming a player provides can have merit. That is, merit in the sense that you learn these players are hard to play around and be teammates to in certain situations.
Just read between the lines and make actual sense out of the unnecessary flaming.
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On June 02 2015 22:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people? The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way. Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out. Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them.
Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team.
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On June 03 2015 09:25 gaijindash wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2015 22:20 Plansix wrote:On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people? The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way. Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out. Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them. Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team.
I agree with that. The main problem a lot of players have is that they feed the negative behavior. Telling a player they are bad isn't going to make them improve or make you play any better. The OP seems to be expecting more communication than is really necessary in Dota. Mine boils down to "lets murder this fool," at max.
I think the OP's main problem is that he is looking for people to "work together". The easiest way to handle that is to simply go to your team mates and work with them. A lot of players make the mistake trying to dictate the course of the game and then assuming the other players don't want to.
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On June 03 2015 22:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:25 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 22:20 Plansix wrote:On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people? The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way. Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out. Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them. Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team. I agree with that. The main problem a lot of players have is that they feed the negative behavior. Telling a player they are bad isn't going to make them improve or make you play any better. The OP seems to be expecting more communication than is really necessary in Dota. Mine boils down to "lets murder this fool," at max. I think the OP's main problem is that he is looking for people to "work together". The easiest way to handle that is to simply go to your team mates and work with them. A lot of players make the mistake trying to dictate the course of the game and then assuming the other players don't want to.
The key has an always will be realistic expectations and problem solving. If its realistic to expect a certain level of cooperation and achievable without too much effort then do it, if not find other solutions
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Ty for ideas so far.
Some of you mentioned Captains mode. What's the most basic skill/knowledge set needed to not be a burden in that mode?
I'm only semi-competent with Warlock and Sven so far for example, I think I'm supposed to be semi-competent with 6 heroes from a few roles. Yes? No?
some replies:
I think the OP's main problem is that he is looking for people to "work together". The easiest way to handle that is to simply go to your team mates and work with them.
This is interesting. Can you elaborate? What if the "team" isn't together, or isn't doing anything useful?
an aside: reminds me of a duo-queue game the other day with my friend:
The "follow the biggest jerk" strategy my bud came up with: find the guy who cannot work together to save his life, Rambo with bm, and stick to him like glue until everyone joins you two. Won a few games like that...
I think that's how those psycho warlords get into power in Mad Max and Walking Dead
I can offer a few suggestions:
...- a bit of casual chat during picks or when bad things happen seems to preempt a lot of bad behavior, guessing because people then feel less anonymous...
I found this was great advice when I played L4D. In dota though, only 1/3 games can I get any reply whatsoever. I don't get it. It's like playing with bots man. Is it a low mmr thing?
Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team.
Good advice, but please don't assume so much based on somebody checking a forum for help after getting frustrated online
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On June 04 2015 01:52 HewTheTitan wrote:
Some of you mentioned Captains mode. What's the most basic skill/knowledge set needed to not be a burden in that mode?
Be prepared for a lot more shit people in low mmr cm. If you aren't captain, its almost certainly gg because the chances of you running into a competent captain at 2k-3k is about as good as you winning millions in the lottery. Also there will be a lot of people who will either leave, troll, feed, etc if they are given a hero they didn't want or just because they didn't get to be captain. The only thing you can do is hope none of these scenarios befall you and know a good bit about team composition and drafting orders.
I'm only semi-competent with Warlock and Sven so far for example, I think I'm supposed to be semi-competent with 6 heroes from a few roles. Yes? No?
I would not recommend a static number of heroes to be aiming for because any higher level player approached the game with the idea that they would need to have 100% all heroes and abilities memorized and be able to play at a high level of skill with at least all but maybe 10. If you really want to perform well at this game, one of the first things that has to disappear is the unfamiliarity with heroes. All heroes. You can't skip or be lazy about that step if you want wins. This is easily remedied with playtime, however and will occur as you play the game more.
This is interesting. Can you elaborate? What if the "team" isn't together, or isn't doing anything useful?
Then you should be farming and getting bigger. Can't do anything useful with the team because they're all spread out being lowbie retards? Then do something useful like getting more levels and items yourself as fast as you can because you should realize if they are often incapable of being in a position to actually defend or push, you are going to have to drive the ship.
I found this was great advice when I played L4D. In dota though, only 1/3 games can I get any reply whatsoever. I don't get it. It's like playing with bots man. Is it a low mmr thing?
It is. If they don't respond its an almost guaranteed "I am shit and too stupid to know it" sign in 99.999999% of cases. Either a native too dumb to communicate a lot in a team game, or a foreigner who was too stupid to pick a language they speak or in a region they can play in without huge lag. Above 4k and especially on my accounts way past 5k close to 6k+ level play, I find it can almost be difficult to follow what's happening, there's so much discussion and chat going on. More communication, better teamwork from better players who realize such a thing is needed. At higher levels, you might even have to ask "cut the chatter, we have a teamfight to do!"
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Ive made no conclusions that you havent led me to
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If your MMR is really low, like sub 3k, I would suggest just working on fundamentals and playing with friends. Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically.
As you rise in MMR you will encounter more people who actually give a shit. This will mean people will be more precise and obnoxious with their criticism, but it will also mean people will want to win more as they understand how the game works, which means they will appreciate communication. I am at a point where I will get at least 2 other people on my team who I can start talking to and when I do get massive dicks on my team, they will usually have some justification for acting that way (shitty lanes, dumb play, etc), rather then just flaming out of the gate.
Hope you figure something out.
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Don't do captain's mode and stick with all pick to learn the game and to avoid noob traps such as AR, CM, CD, RD and especially Single Draft (SD). Play with friends or make friends. Play Ranked matchmaking and work your way up without worrying about number.
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On June 04 2015 18:40 Surprise.820 wrote:
Don't do captain's mode and stick with all pick to learn the game and to avoid noob traps such as CM, CD, RD and especially Single Draft. Play with friends or make friends. Play Ranked matchmaking and work your way up without worrying about number.
I definitely agree with this. At the level of play you're currently at the amount of games you can put in is the thing that will benefit you the most. Besides your concerns about your limited hero pool the sheer time spent waiting for picks/bans in CM would be the biggest disadvantage. Also people tend to be very toxic in CM as well in my experience since everyone will blaim the captain if things are not going well and there's always that one guy who can't drop the fact that he didn't get to play his favourite hero this time either.
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It's often a trope that people go into CM thinking it'll be better than All Pick but it just isn't and the problem with your ranking is that you might not be good enough to rise (attitudes of playerbase aside.)
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I wouldn't totally write off RD or CD. If your in the mood to be forced to try a new hero, its pretty good. Also the people in RD and CD are often more friend from my experience. They know they are not going to get to play their hero of choice and are ok with filling a role.
Not a great mode for refining your skills with a hero, but great for getting your feet wet and not being screamed at.
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RD or CD is where I retreat when games are obnoxiously bad i.e. TI4 emulating Mek pushes from Dooms, Enigmas, Chens, Razors, Death Prophets etc. Even 6.83 had decent hero variety + a mid game.
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On June 04 2015 11:24 sCCrooked wrote:
Be prepared for a lot more shit people in low mmr cm. If you aren't captain, its almost certainly gg because the chances of you running into a competent captain at 2k-3k is about as good as you winning millions in the lottery. Also there will be a lot of people who will either leave, troll, feed, etc if they are given a hero they didn't want or just because they didn't get to be captain.
My experiences in low mmr -cm are less stark than you describe. Mainly:
1) If a player gives a list of 5 or so heroes they want to play, the captain will usually oblige them.
2) Both teams are unlikely to have a good captain (although the 55% rule applies against you here). The 'good' outcome is a captain who listens to his teammates, which is also the common case at the floor of the 2k bracket. Behavior may vary at the ceiling, though, as you also get players on the way down from the 3k bracket who think they know better than the players on their way up.
3) The 55% rule applies to trolls, as always; don't troll yourself and the trolling will generally work in your favor.
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Is there some channel or group you can go to find people to play with? I know sc2 TL has a practice partners thread every season.
Above 4k and especially on my accounts way past 5k close to 6k+ level play, I find it can almost be difficult to follow what's happening, there's so much discussion and chat going on.
Really? Every time I try to talk to somebody about it, they say there's no point in pub games. That's encouraging!
Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically.
I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I guess what I'm asking is: "what's a good role to use to get out of this low mmr swamp, while actually getting better?" (edit: what lane too? Mid seems fought-over)
Ive made no conclusions that you havent led me to
You're really going to troll somebody who's started a thread for help dealing with trolling? You better be wearing a monocle with all that class 
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On June 05 2015 01:03 HewTheTitan wrote:Show nested quote +Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically. I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I remember going through this particular bracket. The solution I settled on was Vengeful Spirit, a support who can role-swap to a farming carry or position 3 utility hero if the lane falls out so that she gets the last hits.
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On June 05 2015 01:03 HewTheTitan wrote:
I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I guess what I'm asking is: "what's a good role to use to get out of this low mmr swamp, while actually getting better?" (edit: what lane too? Mid seems fought-over)
2 cents, I tend to believe every player has a distinct play style where he/she shines and blindly going mid doesn't cut every time. Whenever I want to increase my mmr (sometimes i play clowny , experimental, i lost mmr), I try my go to heroes, roles and try to pick according to composition of the game. For a few weeks, jungle ursa alone nets me about 200+ mmr by itself because people doesn't know how to answer and even in some games people try to deal with and I overcome vast majority of those by simple efficient jungling and good rotations.
I.e going full mid without committing a specific hero doesn't work for me. I don't play mid if I don't have to so playing a jungler, roamer or a disrupting offlane suits better to me. Also I counter pick a lot at those times.
I mean training mid will work eventually because you'll get better eventually and you have tools like xp,farm, control etc.. but I don't think it is the only way.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On June 05 2015 01:30 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 01:03 HewTheTitan wrote:Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically. I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice? I remember going through this particular bracket. The solution I settled on was Vengeful Spirit, a support who can role-swap to a farming carry or position 3 utility hero if the lane falls out so that she gets the last hits.
i did the same thing w/ venge. it got to the point where i was able to safe lane carry if my team didn't have a safelaner.
this is good for many reasons..you learn to play the hero in and out in addition to supporting your team which is usually what your team needs.
just recognize that as a support you will likely get little recognition for what you do to help win the game.
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What do you do when you get everyone talking, everyone picks roles/lanes, then 3 change their minds 2 minutes into the game, go mid, and won't leave, then they start insulting everyone so you have to mute them all?
If I leave the game I get LPQ or whatever it's called, probably reported. If I stay, I lose an hour of my life. What an insult to injury. It makes you want to quit playing pretty darn fast man...
Sorry, had a bad (5ish) games, I think I'm venting, but I'm THIS close to quitting mobas. It's been 56 hours of this, according to steam.
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if you're not having fun why keep playing? there are other fun games/activities.
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On June 05 2015 00:37 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 11:24 sCCrooked wrote:
Be prepared for a lot more shit people in low mmr cm. If you aren't captain, its almost certainly gg because the chances of you running into a competent captain at 2k-3k is about as good as you winning millions in the lottery. Also there will be a lot of people who will either leave, troll, feed, etc if they are given a hero they didn't want or just because they didn't get to be captain. My experiences in low mmr -cm are less stark than you describe. Mainly: 1) If a player gives a list of 5 or so heroes they want to play, the captain will usually oblige them. 2) Both teams are unlikely to have a good captain (although the 55% rule applies against you here). The 'good' outcome is a captain who listens to his teammates, which is also the common case at the floor of the 2k bracket. Behavior may vary at the ceiling, though, as you also get players on the way down from the 3k bracket who think they know better than the players on their way up. 3) The 55% rule applies to trolls, as always; don't troll yourself and the trolling will generally work in your favor.
I would also agree with some of this, but I'm trying to prepare him for terrible shitty sub-4k CM situations that no doubt will happen at some point eventually in his climb. Probably a high enough % its something you have to factor in when making a decision to go CM.
Hewthetitan wrote:
I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I guess what I'm asking is: "what's a good role to use to get out of this low mmr swamp, while actually getting better?" (edit: what lane too? Mid seems fought-over
As some have already suggested, play a 3 or 4 if you want to go the supp route. You need to pick heroes that are not just supporty, but also can semi-carry like Windranger, Lina, Vengeful, etc so if you truly are capable of playing at higher levels, you can fully manifest an advantage you can run with to victory.
What do you do when you get everyone talking, everyone picks roles, then 3 go mid and won't leave, then they start insulting everyone so you have to mute them all?
This kind of scenario hasn't happened to me in a while but it has before and it is exactly why I only play 1 of 4 things in a pub. Solo offlane core snowballer. Solo jungle core snowballer. Solo mid (but as you said, its contested or claimed often) snowballer. Main position 1 safelane carry (Not often, as I often have a lane partner who sucks or tries to steal farm).
It seems narrow-minded, but its just what works for me. My best and most-played heroes are all gankers/cores/junglers and I am able to most fully exploit advantages and create map action where and when I need to in order to create more wins when using those types. You should do whatever is this equivalent for you (if its supports making huge teamfights that you guys constantly win happen, do that). I simply can farm fast and survive at a level that 3kers can't compete with. Sometimes instead you have to be a rat at a level 3kers aren't expecting. Sometimes you have to gank so hard 3kers will feed you like 10 support lives because they have no map awareness. You just have to find whatever advantage you can make, and then exploit the crap out of it. If you start snowballing, don't stop the avalanche!
Also, you might want to ease up on gaijindash. He is the writer for an article that very much parallels what you are writing about in this thread and can offer some good pointers I'm sure.
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It's just people that take the games very seriously. Flaming doesn't bother me much and you can always mute them, however never talk back as it gets much worse and affects everyone on the team. I have a much bigger problem with people that give up after dying one time, that happenes in like half my games and it's almost always the mid player.
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You're really going to troll somebody who's started a thread for help dealing with trolling? You better be wearing a monocle with all that class
You know I wrote a response to explain myself but I'm not going to bother. Good luck with your problem.
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On June 05 2015 05:05 HighTimeDotA wrote:
if you're not having fun why keep playing? there are other fun games/activities.
this.
I won't hesitate to abandon a game (as long as I'm not playing with anyone I know) if the game starts feeling like it won't be worth my time. in fact, I'm sure while my teammates will be pissed off, at least I saved them 30 mins or so of their time.
Very rarely have had to do this thankfully, but there'll always be games where everything goes to shit so fast.
I have a hundred other games on my steam library to play if I choose to play and I haven't even finished half of them, so might as well just play them if dota isn't being worth my time.
In fact there's plenty of things to do outside of playing games anyway.
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Buy force staff. At least that way you can get back at them in-game.
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EPT
