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[Hero] Lifestealer - Page 6

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Zenotha
Profile Joined June 2016
Singapore2 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 17:56:27
June 02 2016 16:21 GMT
#101
On June 03 2016 00:40 Comeh wrote:

It gives one hit every 5 seconds, which equates to like 20 AS, and LS already has a lot of AS from rage and armlet, but the whole implication is that of course you'll be going S&Y. Movement speed is the most valuable statistic on this hero, especially considering how kiteable he is.


looking at it as one hit every 5 seconds is a common trap many people fall into when evaluating the item. how often do you actually get to hit one hero for 5 seconds uninterrupted?

the correct way to look at it is - how many hits can you usually get on a target before they get a chance to use any kiting skills or whatever?

armlet+echo comes online around 13-15 min, which is usually when one of the initiators on your team get blink or something. how many hits can you normally get in during a infest-crush? infest-call? etc etc.

if you could get in 4 hits on that slark normally in the stun duration, and echo sabre lets you get in one more hit, it is equivalent to giving you a 25% increase in damage when trying to burst people. if you could only have got in 3 hits, it is equivalent to 33% more damage.

building the follow up damage to maintain this burst is important - deso which amplifies feast, and daedalus which also can crit on feast. With these two sources of damage as follow up you ensure that your burst is always sufficient that ghosts/forces/etc will not be able to help people due to just how utterly fast they die.

once your damage threshold exceeds a certain level kiting isnt an issue as they basically die before they can do anything, and start most fights one hero down. blink/force are situational if you don't have infest targets but that is usually not the case.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 17:02:58
June 02 2016 16:54 GMT
#102
lots of people don't actually click on heroes to check their damage potential, or have an accurate guesstimate until they themsleves try out right clicking someone with a right-click hero like lifestealer. that's an experience thing, if you're really into it, you can do the real-time mathing during game and have good understanding of situations, or a better understanding of what items fit during that timeline.

by saying that i'm not addressing the echo sabre item on LS, but rather that when ganking or doing engagements most people just associate certain heroes with small or large health pools/low or high armor, and feel it from there--all relative to where and how fast your item progression has been.

then, you further itemize. we had a 6k player in this thread who clearly shows that he gets away with it just fine. he itemizes further damage and takes advantage of it. you could try and ask him why he prefers it over other options yourself.

however, you don't need somebody to convince you, just play with it and see how it feels.


anyway
here's some basic situational stuff just to throw it out there.
-sometimes you do not immediately open wounds a target that you're on. they can manta or dispel it off immediately and you're stuck hoping for sange procs while you chase. i mean at least the echo sabre is a guaranteed slow.

-so as you say there's a kiting issue and you've got limited number of attacks per fight. i am sure some people build echo sabre for that reason whether as a snowball item or not. double feast/open wounds heal off of double armlet hit with minus armor or crit is and can be insanity value.

-sometimes you only need those first three or four hits to get that initial kill. it leaves you with different options like S&Y would. maybe you don't have to rage at the start, maybe you don't open wounds. maybe sometimes we're not thinking about making use of the ability 5 seconds down the line, but that the first hits increase your chances of doing something you wouldn't normally have, like again, not having to blow your entire load (spells).

i mean hello, mr.S&Y (Era) built manta on lifestealer, with nothing to dispel.
no need to think it's bullshit. it's just a solid option that may not be for the way you play LS.

edit: alright i did not refresh for zenotha's newest post before composing mine. lol.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 18:30:45
June 02 2016 18:25 GMT
#103
im just gonna say everytime i get echo sabre i do considerably worse than when i get sny and lose
for fighting build armlet midas sny deso is rly solid
against svens and maybe dks u wud want mjollnir/mkb instead of deso for more dmg
i wud like to try treads over phase like i used to but i dont think it wud make much of a difference
also ure strong enough early with just armlet, so i just get midas to make sure ill get everything else fast enough to start 2-3 shotting supports
ac/deso feels too important to have coz its how u end the game thru rosh and buildings...
getting too many mid game items usually traps u
thing is sny vs echo doesnt make too much of a difference in like < 7.5k pubs coz lifestealer is broken anyway
but in scrims/officials/high avg mmr games you start feeling the difference
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
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