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On January 31 2013 14:47 packrat386 wrote:
I feel like hopefully popular opinion can help me settle a consistent disagreement I have with a friend of mine.
Is it worth it to play hard support in pub games? I watch professional games and the positon 5 hero (kotl or CM or rubick or something) always has essentially no items in their inventory.They might end the game wit something like treads, magic wand, and a bracer. But, thats because they're constantly buying wards, using sentries to clear other wards, saving for buyback etc. but is that how one ought to play i a pub game?
On one hand I read support guides that are like "don't steal last hits, carry needs them" "don't farm a bunch of persona items, you're going to die 14.5 times anyway" "wards should ALWAYS be on buyout", This seems to indicate to me that even in pub games my job when playing position 5 heroes is to spend all of my gold for the team.
On the other hand, almost every guide I read is like, it would be nice if you could get a mek, forcestaff, sheepstick and aghs on lich. That and there is a mindset that every hero is better with farm and low level pub carries are unreliable (i.e. take their last hits, you need them too).
I tend to be of the opinion that supports ought to be spending all their gold on wards/dust/smoke etc, but I would love to get some slightly more expert opinions on this.
Thanks in advance
I'd go for hard support if I'm playing with a 3+ stack of people I know and trust to be decent players. If not, even then I don't play Lina hard carry, because that hero is supposed to support the carries, and I would expect that from another player that picked support. But I wouldn't recomend playing the position 5 on your solo queue.
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On February 01 2013 13:58 Ratch! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:47 packrat386 wrote:
I feel like hopefully popular opinion can help me settle a consistent disagreement I have with a friend of mine.
Is it worth it to play hard support in pub games? I watch professional games and the positon 5 hero (kotl or CM or rubick or something) always has essentially no items in their inventory.They might end the game wit something like treads, magic wand, and a bracer. But, thats because they're constantly buying wards, using sentries to clear other wards, saving for buyback etc. but is that how one ought to play i a pub game?
On one hand I read support guides that are like "don't steal last hits, carry needs them" "don't farm a bunch of persona items, you're going to die 14.5 times anyway" "wards should ALWAYS be on buyout", This seems to indicate to me that even in pub games my job when playing position 5 heroes is to spend all of my gold for the team.
On the other hand, almost every guide I read is like, it would be nice if you could get a mek, forcestaff, sheepstick and aghs on lich. That and there is a mindset that every hero is better with farm and low level pub carries are unreliable (i.e. take their last hits, you need them too).
I tend to be of the opinion that supports ought to be spending all their gold on wards/dust/smoke etc, but I would love to get some slightly more expert opinions on this.
Thanks in advance I'd go for hard support if I'm playing with a 3+ stack of people I know and trust to be decent players. If not, even then I don't play Lina hard carry, because that hero is supposed to support the carries, and I would expect that from another player that picked support. But I wouldn't recomend playing the position 5 on your solo queue.
When u get higher in MM and that is preaty top then yea ur can play a hard 5 position wards all game. I actually think ive hit the low bottom of very high MM, because i alwais get a 5th postion support in everygame that buys everything (even in ar matches)
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On February 01 2013 13:58 Ratch! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:47 packrat386 wrote:
I feel like hopefully popular opinion can help me settle a consistent disagreement I have with a friend of mine.
Is it worth it to play hard support in pub games? I watch professional games and the positon 5 hero (kotl or CM or rubick or something) always has essentially no items in their inventory.They might end the game wit something like treads, magic wand, and a bracer. But, thats because they're constantly buying wards, using sentries to clear other wards, saving for buyback etc. but is that how one ought to play i a pub game?
On one hand I read support guides that are like "don't steal last hits, carry needs them" "don't farm a bunch of persona items, you're going to die 14.5 times anyway" "wards should ALWAYS be on buyout", This seems to indicate to me that even in pub games my job when playing position 5 heroes is to spend all of my gold for the team.
On the other hand, almost every guide I read is like, it would be nice if you could get a mek, forcestaff, sheepstick and aghs on lich. That and there is a mindset that every hero is better with farm and low level pub carries are unreliable (i.e. take their last hits, you need them too).
I tend to be of the opinion that supports ought to be spending all their gold on wards/dust/smoke etc, but I would love to get some slightly more expert opinions on this.
Thanks in advance I'd go for hard support if I'm playing with a 3+ stack of people I know and trust to be decent players. If not, even then I don't play Lina hard carry, because that hero is supposed to support the carries, and I would expect that from another player that picked support. But I wouldn't recomend playing the position 5 on your solo queue.
I wouldn't recommend it either but end of the day just play what you like. If you're in 'normal' bracket though I wouldn't bother too much with warding unless the other team ganks often. And yea low level pub carries can't last hit for shit if they're just 'playing for fun' so just pay abit of attention to whether he seem to be hitting his last hits. If your lane partner is missing horribly just get them for yourself. Fuck that nub shit.
I feel its responsibility of the 5 hero to get wards/dust/smoke when they're needed though. Good luck trying to get people to coordinate to smoke though lol.
As for dewarding you often times don't need to other than to deward them blocking creep spawn in safelane because most players are selfish and won't buy wards. In the lower skill brackets anyway. It really grinds my gears to have no wards on map when I'm not the support. Fucking bitches always be like, after blah blah item when they're not even halfway there. I shall stop before more QQ comes out.
For dewarding the creep spawn, I usually leave ~200 of my starting gold after buying starting items. I buy sentry if i need to deward the creep spawn. Otherwise I just use it for early game items.
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I play a decent amount of support and kinda enjoy it. However, I think support is a two men game and it can be really frustrating if the other guy isn't cooperating or if you're playing dual lanes. As a support there simply isn't much you can do on your own so you have to stick together, but when you do work together you can have a devastating effect on the game.
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saw on a stream that a cosmetic item got a level up and sth like a title (think it was "menacng")
it was no special item, it was the 100-pro bottle for juggernaut.
so how does this lvling work (can i see the current xp somewhere?) and what does it do?
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
'Strange items' keep track of certain things. Examples would be Invoker's 'number of Sunstrike kills', or Furion's 'number of treants created', or Juggernaut's 'number of Omnislashes'. Whenever they hit a certain number (20, 50, 100, 1000, etc) they upgrade a level, giving them a fancy name like 'Super duper 100-pro bottle'. I'm not exactly sure what names they use since I don't keep track of this. They also have no implication on the game whatsoever.
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The only way to get items with that modifier is to open chests, it is worth noting. (Or trading)
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So this might be obvious but I'm pretty drunk and just thought of this - Why isn't Invoker used as support? I know obviously he does better with farm and levels, but honestly, what hero doesn't do better with that. Like Rubick for example, obviously he does well with levels and items, but he's also used as support a lot
Considering he has potentially 10 spells, bonus movement speed, and bonus regen without any items at all (not to mention cold snap at level 2 seems super strong for early-game for in a trilane or dual lane or for ganking, then things like tornado, emp, deafening blast, chaos meteor is great for teamfights)
So why isn't he used as support at all?
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A support has to be able to function without levels or experience. Invoker can't even cast a spell until he reaches level 2 so you're going to get dominated in lane and be able to do nothing about it.
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I suppose not being able to do anything at level 1 does hurt, but you could easily trade lasthits in a safe lane 2v1 situation or something if you have Quas first anyway. And even heroes like CM and Rubick become much stronger at level 2 anyway, so is it really THAT much of an inconvenience to not be able to do much until level 2? It seems like later in the game he would be pretty strong after a few levels as support.
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If you could actually make it to the late game it might be viable. If they don't have a way to be aggressive early I suppose it might work, but even then you're taking a huge risk. Rubick and CM get stronger as they level up, but they also offer a very strong level 1. Invoker offers nothing at level 1. He has no spell and his auto attack damage is one of the lowest in the game. He won't be able to trade hits with anyone. The only thing he has going for him is that he has 600 range and a nice animation.
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Is it intentional that SFs death ult doesn't apply the debuff?
Haven't tested in DotA1 so not sure if it's meant to be like that.
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On February 02 2013 20:48 Unleashing wrote:
Is it intentional that SFs death ult doesn't apply the debuff?
Haven't tested in DotA1 so not sure if it's meant to be like that.
Isn't his 'death ult' just a fancy death animation to show his collected souls fly away? It doesn't do damage or debuff.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On February 02 2013 21:46 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:48 Unleashing wrote:
Is it intentional that SFs death ult doesn't apply the debuff?
Haven't tested in DotA1 so not sure if it's meant to be like that. Isn't his 'death ult' just a fancy death animation to show his collected souls fly away? It doesn't do damage or debuff.
You're a tad bit out of date mate. On death, sf automatically casts his ult with half the souls he had.
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On February 02 2013 21:46 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:48 Unleashing wrote:
Is it intentional that SFs death ult doesn't apply the debuff?
Haven't tested in DotA1 so not sure if it's meant to be like that. Isn't his 'death ult' just a fancy death animation to show his collected souls fly away? It doesn't do damage or debuff.
Wat.
It DOES do damage, it uses half his current souls to do a requiem that does damage. But it currently does not apply the debuff which to me, it should, seeing that the description is:
"• Upon death half the amount of souls are released and do their own Requiem of Souls."
The damage currently works, but it doesn't apply a debuff, which is why my question is: Is it meant to?
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On February 02 2013 21:46 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:48 Unleashing wrote:
Is it intentional that SFs death ult doesn't apply the debuff?
Haven't tested in DotA1 so not sure if it's meant to be like that. Isn't his 'death ult' just a fancy death animation to show his collected souls fly away? It doesn't do damage or debuff.
You're really not up to date. When SF dies now, he does a half soul ulti(the amount he loses)
The debuf thing needs testing
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When I upgrade stats by using the hotkey, does it automatically pick my primary stat?
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each point in stats boosts every stat by 2
so you get 2 str 2 agi 2 int always
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On February 03 2013 01:08 Nausea wrote:
When I upgrade stats by using the hotkey, does it automatically pick my primary stat?
Stat upgrade gives +2 to all stats, you can't choose.
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On February 03 2013 01:10 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 01:08 Nausea wrote:
When I upgrade stats by using the hotkey, does it automatically pick my primary stat? Stat upgrade gives +2 to all stats, you can't choose.
Ah, ok. Thank you
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EPT
