EPTIf you find yourself needing to go QB first to last hit creeps, it's really goes back to #1 where you are neglecting your mechanics and relying on a bad crutch.
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
If you find yourself needing to go QB first to last hit creeps, it's really goes back to #1 where you are neglecting your mechanics and relying on a bad crutch. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 13 2013 02:51 Qbek wrote: Being able to push is part of lane control thou, which means "the lane does what you want it to do". Pretty much if you're going to push though, the first time you'd do it is with the first siege wave, so you shouldn't start QB still, and then buy it then. On January 13 2013 02:53 ZerG~LegenD wrote: I open QB on some hard-laners just to be able to cut into the woods and get free experience. Somewhat gimmicky but works great almost all of the time. This is nice in some scenarios, but 90% of pub safe lanes actually suck at picking engagements and you can actually just straight up win the lane with real starting items, without the need to hide out. | ||
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
On January 13 2013 02:51 Qbek wrote: Being able to push is part of lane control thou, which means "the lane does what you want it to do". I meant it in the sense that if you have a free farm lane and your team wants to push, getting a quelling blade is not going to make a major significant impact anyways in the early game. You'd be able to push regardless as free farm lanes are usually situations where it's a 2v1 or 3v1. Occasionally it may be 1v1, but in that case a stout shield is more likely to help you dominate if you are already at an advantage in the matchup. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On January 13 2013 02:53 ZerG~LegenD wrote: I open QB on some hard-laners just to be able to cut into the woods and get free experience. Somewhat gimmicky but works great almost all of the time. demon just used tangos in his infamous tidehunter games | ||
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
Edit: Stout Shield isn't as valuable if you aren't the primary farmer of the lane and won't be contesting for last hits. It's perfectly fine to skip Stout Shield/QB to get more regen if you are playing a 4th/5th position melee (E.g Earthshaker, Sandking, Sven etc.) Although that extra money will probably be spent on courier/wards. | ||
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MeLlamoSatan
United States136 Posts
https://dotabuff.com/matches/97814431 That said, we started great. First blood and second blood early from some team-roaming. And I feel like we got a few ganks to keep us in it. Then the team fights came and we folded really hard. I know we probably lost in the drafting stages here, but what kind of heroes should we have taken once their team started looking very push heavy? I know we played poorly, but any general ideas we should've incorporated when we saw a team built like this? Any counters or heroes who will put up a good stand. Maybe Shadow Shaman instead of venge and a carry who can get online pretty quickly, maybe luna or something? | ||
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Marimokkori
United States306 Posts
On January 12 2013 15:48 LazyFailKid wrote: I dont know what your hotkeys are but mine are 1-6 so i'll use those as an example. So you select the units you want then press CTRL-1 to bind them to group 1, now whenever I press 1 those units get selected. That's pretty much all their is to it lol So it is similar to SC, they just don't allow an option to bind other can control? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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MeLlamoSatan
United States136 Posts
As far as laning: they went trilane: nyx/rubick/dk bottom safelane dp mid kotl suicide lane solo How should we, ultimately, lane against them for the start? NS mid. So Magnus, in order to prepare to the pushing needed to not get blink, but arcane for sustaining power. I get that. Skewer can initiate if it needs. VS, instead of buying mech and playing a supporty 4 role, should have, instead probably got something for more sustain and ganking power (tranquil/treads and maybe something else?) NS's build was just bad. and AM's farm was slow, largely due to no stout/PMS and poor laning. Wands are just good (I usually get them, not sure why I didn't honestly.). | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
Vengeful should not really have a slippers of agility, and shouldn't really be the one going for mek. Disruptor would be a much better mek carrier. You have two urns. NS is a great urn carrier. NS should not be going for a dagon. Overall last hitting was just extremely poor and does not lead into a good mid/late game. Honestly, focus on improving your mechanics and so on before focusing on fickle things like laning strategies and pushing strategies. It's the Dota equivalent to SC's 'build workers and don't get supply blocked' core, improve that and you will improve far more than you will if you fuss about with fancy build orders and so on. | ||
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Rodberd
Germany531 Posts
from the effects, the user should be totally immune to dmg, right? i saw merlini play lion just a few mins ago, i play that hero as well since some days. merlini went into phaseboots, i usually prefer arcanes. i know lion could drain the mana from range creeps, heros etc pp but in pubs the people never keep the ranges alive so i cant leech. whats your advice here? keep arcane or go into phaseboots and try to get a spike+drain combo and such to keep the mana high? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
Generally as support Lion you will indeed be going for arcanes instead of phase. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 13 2013 04:19 MeLlamoSatan wrote: Let me pick your brain, if you don't mind. As far as laning: they went trilane: nyx/rubick/dk bottom safelane dp mid kotl suicide lane solo How should we, ultimately, lane against them for the start? NS mid. So Magnus, in order to prepare to the pushing needed to not get blink, but arcane for sustaining power. I get that. Skewer can initiate if it needs. VS, instead of buying mech and playing a supporty 4 role, should have, instead probably got something for more sustain and ganking power (tranquil/treads and maybe something else?) NS's build was just bad. and AM's farm was slow, largely due to no stout/PMS and poor laning. Wands are just good (I usually get them, not sure why I didn't honestly.). Without any knowledge of the enemy team this should be the initial lane setup: KotL vs Thrall VS AM DP vs NS Nyx Rubick DK vs Magnus My first question when I looked at dotabuff was "How did they lane this?" and then I expected them to lane it 2/1/2 with Kotl/Nyx as their offlane. Why? Because a solo KotL should stay at 0 xp if he decides to go to lane against Thrall/VS/AM. One of the supports (usually VS) can zone him out of xp range, Thrall can pull and get farmed. If KotL managed to get XP early on, you played the trilane badly. Magnus vs Nyx/Rubick/DK should look similar. Did your Magnus try to ward their pulls? If not, big fault. If the enemy trilane fucks up and lets the creeps push (quite common, trilanes are hard), he should enjoy the free xp. If they DO their job properly and zone him off/keep creepcontrol it's jungle time for him. NS vs DP is a matchup the NS (like 90% of his matchups) loses initially but wins back by ganking and mapcontrol during the first night. NS (+VS/Thrall)has to carry the midgame tempo until Magnus and later on AM can do their duties properly. In an ideal situation the enemy kotl gets no xp and the enemy team is forced to either send him to jungle or send Nyx/Rubick to help out. tl;dr: Play hardlanes/suicide lanes better. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 13 2013 05:08 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I like how you expect the kotl to have zero experience, but also expect the other team to suck and give the magnus exp. In practice, playing a perfect trilane like that is near impossible. You should judge how well you're doing on how farmed/leveled your offlaner is compared to theirs. Keep in mind magnus is going to need more farm to do his job than kotl as his initiation sucks until he has a blink. I expect them to do everything to keep the KotL at zero xp while also doing everything possible to get Magnus XP. By trying both you exploit the mistakes in the enemies play. Just because the enemy KotL might be too dumb to ward your pulls / the enemy team might be too dumb to sentry your block ward doesn't mean you have to go into the game expecting the same to happen to your side. Preparation is key. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 13 2013 04:33 Rodberd wrote: would a combo of BKB + ghost-scepter work? from the effects, the user should be totally immune to dmg, right? Ghost Form is a magical buff. BKB-ing removes Ghost Form/prevents it from being applied. On January 13 2013 04:33 Rodberd wrote: i saw merlini play lion just a few mins ago, i play that hero as well since some days. merlini went into phaseboots, i usually prefer arcanes. i know lion could drain the mana from range creeps, heros etc pp but in pubs the people never keep the ranges alive so i cant leech. whats your advice here? keep arcane or go into phaseboots and try to get a spike+drain combo and such to keep the mana high? If you're going to go boots other than Arcanes, I'd rather have Tread's than Phase. You're going to get Blink/Force for your initiation/mobility, so you don't need Phase for it. | ||
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