• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:43
CEST 15:43
KST 22:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War995.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Server Blocker 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released Bot on ladder Rollback Netcode in Brood War ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs Dreams 2026-10-15 ASL 22 Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10372 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1129

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1254 Next
Rawr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Sweden624 Posts
July 27 2015 23:19 GMT
#22561
Other heroes that you can jungle with that most people don't really expect to be jungling is sand king, cm, or kotl. Enigma is also very strong in pub games. With sand king and kotl, you stack all the camps, with cm you can alternate between lane and jungle.

People love to jungle carries, but it is very annoying to play mid or hard carry with a farming jungler. If you really want to jungle, play a support!
Joo Se-Hyuk
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-27 23:53:38
July 27 2015 23:52 GMT
#22562
cm has to (smoke) gank to justify her existence, she doesn't jungle with enough speed to get levels and gold from the jungle appropriately

jungle kotl wants to have 0 presence until like a 15-16 minute aghs, so you better be damn sure your lanes arent gonna lose and report you before then. you also need another support willing to roam as the hard 5 to keep up wards and such. and study aui/febby appropriately because you have to cut specific trees, it's dire only, and if you miss stacks and have a late aghs or something you're just that much more reported.
posting on liquid sites in current year
xAdra
Profile Joined July 2012
Singapore1858 Posts
July 28 2015 01:27 GMT
#22563
Can some mid players/captains please enlighten me-
Who exactly does the Razor v QoP matchup favor?

I saw a debate of whether Secret drafting Razor to fight Mushi's QoP was a stupid idea. There are people on both sides of the argument but I haven't seen any concrete arguments other than the usual reddit crap ("i dont think u understand this matchup noob")

I've played this matchup before on the side of Razor and I lost badly- but then again I'm a shit mid player and a shit razor player so I need someone good to tell me
rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
July 28 2015 01:37 GMT
#22564
Off the top of my head, QoP seems like she can do fine vs Razor. Better attack range than Razor, helps her stay out of trouble (more difficult to get a good Link on), and she can blink out of trouble too if things get dicey.

Seems like a matchup that Razor will have a lot of trouble in.

I don't really play mid though so take this with a grain of salt.
"Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!"
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
July 28 2015 03:39 GMT
#22565
Looking at datdota for 6.84 I count:

8 games where razor's team wins
10 games where qop's team wins
9 games with razor and qop on the same team

I have no idea how many of those games they are matched against each other in lane.

Seems to fit with my intuition that the matchup is pretty even though.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
July 28 2015 08:19 GMT
#22566
Sounds like a matchup that should be relatively even, maybe slightly qop favored if no one gets help. Razor shouldn't take too much damage, staying out of range of scream and bottle crowing. Qop doesn't like to shadow strike razor too much once he gets a few levels in unstable current either. She can't blink in to scream unless she's confident of bursting because of link.

At 6 though, qop gets a kill opportunity, so razor has to watch her mana and play safer.
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
July 28 2015 16:26 GMT
#22567
Just a noob here.
Is there a support that can work well in most compositions and not really easy to counter pick?
Lich seems to have good impact on the game under most circumstances.
Vengeful scales well but seems to have a hard time having an impact against illusion based heroes?
Verniy
Profile Joined May 2015
Canada3360 Posts
July 28 2015 17:46 GMT
#22568
On July 29 2015 01:26 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Just a noob here.
Is there a support that can work well in most compositions and not really easy to counter pick?
Lich seems to have good impact on the game under most circumstances.
Vengeful scales well but seems to have a hard time having an impact against illusion based heroes?
Lion is great since he offers a ton of lockdown, but his depush is weak.
Witch Doctor can do absurd damage in teamfights if the enemy team ignores him or lacks disables.
Omniknight is a bit weaker in lane since he's a melee hero, but the amount of sustain he provides and the impact a well-timed Repel/Guardian Angel can have is huge.
Heaven's Halberd is the most criminally underbought item in Dota. Together we can stop this.
GentleDrill
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom672 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-29 01:56:26
July 29 2015 01:53 GMT
#22569
Witch Doctor is my personal favourite because he's really great at supporting your dumbfuck carry in lane. His attack range, attack animation, projectile speed, and base damage are fantastic, you can go on the offense with Cask and defense with Voodoo Restoration. With Lion and Omni you don't have such consistent lane presence, and you're kind of all in on either offense or defense with either one of them. It can really suck to be stuck in a semi passive poke war against an annoying dual offlane as a Lion, or if you're futilely chasing for kills as an Omni, whereas a Witch Doctor can do well in both situations.

The fact that he transitions well into teamfights is icing on the cake.
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2840 Posts
July 29 2015 02:11 GMT
#22570
On July 29 2015 01:26 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Just a noob here.
Is there a support that can work well in most compositions and not really easy to counter pick?
Lich seems to have good impact on the game under most circumstances.
Vengeful scales well but seems to have a hard time having an impact against illusion based heroes?


CM, Lion, Shadow Shaman, Shadow Demon, Witch Doctor, Rubick, Winter Wyvern, ... any of your basic ranged intel supports are good in most lineups and most situations. Supports getting counterpicked is not a thing that realistically happens often because supports aren't usually worth counterpicking, and working well inside any lineup is something that most typical support heroes do naturally.

What it comes down to is a whole lot of your impact as a support player comes directly from your play, rather than your hero pick.
Retgery
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1229 Posts
July 29 2015 04:30 GMT
#22571
Why don't teams ever buy multiple flying couriers?
Fall down 7 times, stand up 8.
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
July 29 2015 04:45 GMT
#22572
On July 29 2015 13:30 Retgery wrote:
Why don't teams ever buy multiple flying couriers?

they do, ice3 likes to do it in long games; misery likes to do it in long games
posting on liquid sites in current year
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 29 2015 04:48 GMT
#22573
Before there was a 3 minute CD on the recipe you would occasionally see double bottle crows from the start basically.
Jisira
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
470 Posts
July 29 2015 07:33 GMT
#22574
On July 28 2015 10:27 xAdra wrote:
Can some mid players/captains please enlighten me-
Who exactly does the Razor v QoP matchup favor?

I saw a debate of whether Secret drafting Razor to fight Mushi's QoP was a stupid idea. There are people on both sides of the argument but I haven't seen any concrete arguments other than the usual reddit crap ("i dont think u understand this matchup noob")

I've played this matchup before on the side of Razor and I lost badly- but then again I'm a shit mid player and a shit razor player so I need someone good to tell me

Razor has his strength against;
- heroes with lower MS than him
- heroes with low mobility (can't break link)
- heroes that have to lane within 900 radius from him

QoP has the same movement speed as Razor, she can always break link, her range plus Razor's range is a total of 1025 range, Razor cannot kite her if she goes aggressively on him and he has to rely on farming the lane instead of doing what the hero is good at.

I personally think Razor against QoP is an underwhelming pick in terms of laning. Razor is quite static and as long as QoP can crow between 4-6 min runes she nukes the wave and gets free roaming potential after 5:30 when Razor still has very little impact.
parkin
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
1091 Posts
July 29 2015 10:29 GMT
#22575
is there a way to disable pets like the armadillo? They are visual clutters and i do not want to see them.
mostly harmless
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3274 Posts
July 29 2015 15:45 GMT
#22576
On July 29 2015 01:26 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Just a noob here.
Is there a support that can work well in most compositions and not really easy to counter pick?
Lich seems to have good impact on the game under most circumstances.
Vengeful scales well but seems to have a hard time having an impact against illusion based heroes?

If you want an allrounder who's good vs illu heroes go Lion, he has two illu gimp spells. CM is pretty much the definition of an allrounder. I'm spamming WW atm a bit, she's awesome most of the time and a lot of fun. Visage is a pretty good allrounder as well. ES is a bad lane controller, but aside from that amazing.
low gravity, yes-yes!
HUMMAN
Profile Joined July 2015
Turkey61 Posts
July 30 2015 21:09 GMT
#22577
what happens when tech/or a hero with bloodstone suicides while graved?
Hello!
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
July 30 2015 22:04 GMT
#22578
On July 31 2015 06:09 HUMMAN wrote:
what happens when tech/or a hero with bloodstone suicides while graved?

they die?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Verniy
Profile Joined May 2015
Canada3360 Posts
July 30 2015 22:25 GMT
#22579
On July 31 2015 06:09 HUMMAN wrote:
what happens when tech/or a hero with bloodstone suicides while graved?

Grave only prevents dying due to lethal damage. Suicides are a kill order, so they kill you without technically dealing damage.
Heaven's Halberd is the most criminally underbought item in Dota. Together we can stop this.
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
July 31 2015 01:23 GMT
#22580
I recall a website that allowed you to select your team and your opponent's team and it would show you which team would win statistically, but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone recall what site it was?
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Prev 1 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1254 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Qualifier
20:00
Not-Summer Championship Qual
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 243
Codebar 24
ProTech5
BRAT_OK 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 18600
Shuttle 9114
Britney 3588
Bisu 2121
Jaedong 1145
Horang2 1087
firebathero 352
Mini 320
EffOrt 263
Hyuk 240
[ Show more ]
Snow 209
Soma 187
Zeus 170
Light 161
Last 154
Leta 122
ggaemo 98
Mind 73
Mong 64
Pusan 60
hero 47
ToSsGirL 47
Hyun 39
Creator 37
Noble 36
Bishop 31
Bale 25
JYJ 20
Shinee 20
zelot 19
Yoon 17
sSak 16
Terrorterran 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Sacsri 14
yabsab 14
NotJumperer 10
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7669
Dendi780
XaKoH 426
420jenkins174
syndereN159
Counter-Strike
fl0m1985
olofmeister1246
Heroes of the Storm
Lowko385
Other Games
singsing1993
B2W.Neo800
hiko726
crisheroes215
Khaldor142
Liquid`VortiX141
DeMusliM135
mouzStarbuck105
QueenE32
Hui .10
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 89
• Adnapsc2 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 939
League of Legends
• Nemesis897
Upcoming Events
OSC
9h 17m
Online Event
21h 17m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 13h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
1d 20h
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.