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You will be matched against players of similar capabilities (after maybe 1-2 feeling out matches which might not be that close but I'm sure you can persevere) so I wouldn't worry too much.
Heroes that are "not a hard carry or hard support" generally fall into the initiator or jungler categories (or both) since those are the heroes that have middling farm priority in general (need items but not as badly as carries do). So you'd be looking at heroes like axe, tidehunter, batrider, etc. Keep in mind that these heroes have a lot of responsibility in other ways than warding or farming. There are no "low-responsibility" roles in dota.
Most initiating heroes have a pretty fixed item progression anyway.
axe: tranquils, blink, blademail, aghs seems to be the most common. Not 100% perfect but u can't go too far wrong.
tide: arcanes, blink, shiva's, refresher. Should do you fine
batrider: tranquils, blink, force, then its a bit w/e but euls/bkb/refresher.
If none of those are interesting to you, then you could stick to windrunner who does fine in literally any role although her itemization can be more complex which you weren't looking for. Zeus plays decently in multiple roles too.
I mean ur question is really complex but you can just pick any hero and take him to whatever role u want and just do the same thing over and over again and you'll learn eventually. The real key is to INSTA MUTE anybody who complains/rages/flames. They don't know SHIT they are SHIT ignore them. You just do you, you aren't here to deal with idiots complaining that you are doing something they don't like, you are here to play a game and to enjoy urself.
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On March 28 2015 00:59 Sn0_Man wrote:
You will be matched against players of similar capabilities (after maybe 1-2 feeling out matches which might not be that close but I'm sure you can persevere) so I wouldn't worry too much.
Heroes that are "not a hard carry or hard support" generally fall into the initiator or jungler categories (or both) since those are the heroes that have middling farm priority in general (need items but not as badly as carries do). So you'd be looking at heroes like axe, tidehunter, batrider, etc. Keep in mind that these heroes have a lot of responsibility in other ways than warding or farming. There are no "low-responsibility" roles in dota.
Most initiating heroes have a pretty fixed item progression anyway.
axe: tranquils, blink, blademail, aghs seems to be the most common. Not 100% perfect but u can't go too far wrong.
tide: arcanes, blink, shiva's, refresher. Should do you fine
batrider: tranquils, blink, force, then its a bit w/e but euls/bkb/refresher.
If none of those are interesting to you, then you could stick to windrunner who does fine in literally any role although her itemization can be more complex which you weren't looking for. Zeus plays decently in multiple roles too.
I mean ur question is really complex but you can just pick any hero and take him to whatever role u want and just do the same thing over and over again and you'll learn eventually. The real key is to INSTA MUTE anybody who complains/rages/flames. They don't know SHIT they are SHIT ignore them. You just do you, you aren't here to deal with idiots complaining that you are doing something they don't like, you are here to play a game and to enjoy urself.
Thanks for the answer.
I really like the semi-carry concept, strong in early-mid game, but does not become too irrelevant in late game, if the game goes well (at least this is what I perceive semi-carries are).
The thing I want to learn most is, what should I do at a given situation? Where should I be on the map in a given state? When to push, when to run like hell? General game sense I think. I can learn what items to get later but if I'm at 2km wrong side of the map my items won't mean much.
I like Windrunner very much. But even when I'm having a good game myself (don't get killed, get a couple of kills, be where I am needed when I'm needed), sometimes I feel like I'm too irrelevant. Like my team can kick me out of the game and play 4v5 and nothing much will change. I don't know if I should try to get better playing with her or pick a more direct hero.
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Lich might be a good choice. He's a support but really has a pretty fixed item build and isn't complex to play. Standard starting stuff - wards or courier, tango, salve, Ring of Protection. First point in E. Always use it and keep it on cool down. Max Q first. Item progression - Tranquil boots, Mek, Aghs. Great hero for learning the flow of games. Often you can be useful just by getting off a great ult even if you die in the process.
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On March 28 2015 01:50 BoZiffer wrote:
Lich might be a good choice. He's a support but really has a pretty fixed item build and isn't complex to play. Standard starting stuff - wards or courier, tango, salve, Ring of Protection. First point in E. Always use it and keep it on cool down. Max Q first. Item progression - Tranquil boots, Mek, Aghs. Great hero for learning the flow of games. Often you can be useful just by getting off a great ult even if you die in the process.
Which position is ok for Lich, if lane setup is 2-1-2? Bots lane in 2-1-2 formation all the time so I don't have any experience on solo offlane etc.
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United States47024 Posts
Lich is actually better in 2-1-2 because he's best as a dual lane support offlane or mid (though you'll never get 2-2-1 in pubs). He's situationally ok as a safe lane support to win a safe lane 2v2, but it's pretty much pointless to use him in a 3v1.
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I like Windrunner very much. But even when I'm having a good game myself (don't get killed, get a couple of kills, be where I am needed when I'm needed), sometimes I feel like I'm too irrelevant. Like my team can kick me out of the game and play 4v5 and nothing much will change. I don't know if I should try to get better playing with her or pick a more direct hero.
I feel like WR is notorious for this (or maybe just when I play her) actually and it's part of her designed weakness maybe. She snowballs well in some sense, but at the same time things can be tricky with her. For me the key things with WR staying relevant is keeping up with farm, identifying tower kill opportunities (late game WR is one of the fastest tower killers in the game, though only a mediocre pusher), and just nailing the shackles at the right moment.
Uh though maybe if you want something that's not hard support, but not a hard carry or presumably mid you may enjoy greedy supports. Something like Witch Doctor, Sand King (a bit of finesse in getting off the ulty, but that's it) or Ogre Magi could work for you. All of them are supports that stay relevant late game and have pretty standard item builds. Lion could be good as well.
Also don't use the standard built in guides. Anytime you play a hero load the user made guide that's in the format of "6.83 - Standard <HERO NAME> Build (lane)". the (lane) ending may not exist for some heroes.
Personally I don't like Lich as a starting hero. You need a really good eye for the enemy positioning, he has no hard disable nor high dmg output (outside of ult), and it's hard for newbies to remember to ice armor. A newbie lich that throws out a 0 bounce ult and 1 blast in combat is completely worthless. Meanwhile even a crappy ogre magi that gets off Ignite + Fireblast has accomplished something reasonable in a fight. though there are no truly easy heroes. Without being ranged being a good lane support is much harder.
In general too you are partially reliant on a team with AoE disables or and/or an enemy team with low mobility/disjoints/illusions.
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People are less predictable then bots but they also make more misstakes just dont be afraid to mute the flamers. Engaging in needless discussions is never helpful for your dota.
From the heroes you listed and from your criterias id say start out with playing some zeus and necro. Neither hero will ever be irrelevant at any part of the game but can also carry a game on their own if you are doing well. Or just chill around in the background and placing some wards and clutch ults if the game is rough.
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On March 28 2015 01:44 mantequilla wrote:
The thing I want to learn most is, what should I do at a given situation? Where should I be on the map in a given state? When to push, when to run like hell? General game sense I think. I can learn what items to get later but if I'm at 2km wrong side of the map my items won't mean much.
Since a lot of other people have touched on your first paragraph, let me talk about the second. That really just comes from playing the game itself and there is no substitute for actual experience. It'll take time to feel out, so don't be afraid to make mistakes. The best players in the game are the best because they push their limits as far as they can. You need to figure that out on your own, especially because there really isn't a straight forward guide to anything like that. In general you can get pretty far though if you just do the basics. Stick with your team, push together and defend together; avoid diving if it's not a sure kill, take objectives first; and think about where your enemy could be and the threat that each enemy hero presents to you.
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On March 28 2015 01:44 mantequilla wrote:
The thing I want to learn most is, what should I do at a given situation? Where should I be on the map in a given state? When to push, when to run like hell? General game sense I think. I can learn what items to get later but if I'm at 2km wrong side of the map my items won't mean much.
There are two items that help a ton with that problem, and they're both cheap.
A Town Portal Scroll means if you figure out you're on the wrong side of the map, you're only on the wrong side of the map for three seconds.
An observer ward, placed on the enemy's most obvious approach to wherever you are, usually gives you more than three seconds of warning.
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When would I want to pick OD mid? When I first started getting into Dota 2 he was very common but now less so...
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On March 29 2015 00:34 BoZiffer wrote:
When would I want to pick OD mid? When I first started getting into Dota 2 he was very common but now less so...
To me he feels a bit like SF but without the ability to recover and farm as well but If he does well in mid it snowballs way harder. I pick OD vs mana reliant mids and teams with mostly strength and agi heroes. Due to meta meaning that the only mid hero that relies a lot on mana now being SF, Slark, and lina (but dat range) OD kinda gets shit on.
Also after Veil Aghs and Blink/SB what do you get on a mid Veno. So far I get Butterfly and Satanic but game is usually decided by then.
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I don't see how you count SF among those.
All he needs is enough max mana to Raze twice or even once and he can get something out of the lane. It's not like you can kill him or stop him getting levels and his bottle, and if you can't do that to an SF he's going to get farm. You might slow his early tempo a bit but he can recover from that.
Lina doesn't even need to interact with you ever if she doesn't want to once she has a couple levels in Slave. And she has high enough int that I don't think you're realistically going to be able to lower her max mana pool enough to prevent her from using both her regular nukes.
Mostly I find you just end up going up against Sniper these days which is not a matchup OD wins.
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manta breaks static link or no?
while at it, what about PL dopple ganger?
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No manta doesn't break. Neither does PL dopple ganger and you can see the real one when they are back (unless it unranges and then it breaks from that).
Not even brewmaster split breaks static link
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^woah, what happens when brewmaster splits then? which one gets linked?
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Brewmaster is hidden along with Earth remnant I believe so the link stays with the Earth Remnant, but I believe the Earth remnant doesn't lose damage as it's not really him getting damage drained.
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whats a general rule to follow regarding hero vision? is it as simple as, if i can see him, he can see me? (if nothing else is giving me vision)
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The thing about hero vision is that there is no simple rule. If you can see another hero and it's daytime, I suppose it is generally safe to assume that they can see you unless they are named batrider or nightstalker.
If you can see another hero and it's nighttime, well. They can see you unless you are bounty, luna, night stalker, slark or sniper in which case they may not be able to see you, unless they are also one of the above. Bounty and sniper only have 1000 night vision though, while the others have 1800.
Also lycan has 1800 night vision while ulted. Winter wyvern has 1200 night vision when using artic burn.
Basically it's complicated =\
Oh, and I'm also assuming you don't have flying vision because you're fireflying batrider, night stalker at night with aghs, KotL during the day with aghs, winter wyvern using artic burn, or a cheeky rubick who stole one of those spells.
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Can you see your own CS in game? There are a bunch of similar questions online but about allied CS.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On March 30 2015 16:43 Quochobao wrote:
Can you see your own CS in game? There are a bunch of similar questions online but about allied CS.
your own cs should be at the bottom right of your screen (maybe top right depending on your resolution). you can't see allied cs ingame
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EPT
