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On August 24 2014 11:51 TheYango wrote:
There's like zero reason to start 2x Gauntlet. You're going to start Stout or bottle rush most of the time, and most conceivable advantages of a double gauntlet start are outdone by one of those two.
HoD sucks on NS. The creep can't keep up with your nighttime MS, so even if you got it early enough, it would only slow your ganks down. You don't farm stacks well, so it's farming function doesn't help you, and Vladimir is overall better for you because Satanic isn't a high priority.
Alright, so provided you go with either stout or bottle, you have around 120 less hp, so 885 which is still quite high 4 mins in. I still think NS is not that terrible of a hero under the right circumstances.
Point taken about the HoD, but I think I'll still play around it more to provide better feedback.
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i think NS would be great in the right setup. for example if you run an aggro trilane vs def trilane ns would be great to cleanup and 4man the tower at the first night. the good think about ns ganks is that they are super reliable even if the lane doesnt initiate. alot of other good gankers rely heavily on skillshots or dagger except maybe zeus and a couple other nukers. with ns you get a beefier frontline.
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On September 12 2014 08:30 clickrush wrote:
i think NS would be great in the right setup. for example if you run an aggro trilane vs def trilane ns would be great to cleanup and 4man the tower at the first night. the good think about ns ganks is that they are super reliable even if the lane doesnt initiate. alot of other good gankers rely heavily on skillshots or dagger except maybe zeus and a couple other nukers. with ns you get a beefier frontline.
I never liked trilane NS because of how it affects his exp.
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He was referring mid NS ganking the tri vs tri i think 
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On September 12 2014 14:38 icystorage wrote:He was referring mid NS ganking the tri vs tri i think
Ahhh :D
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On September 12 2014 08:30 clickrush wrote:
i think NS would be great in the right setup. for example if you run an aggro trilane vs def trilane ns would be great to cleanup and 4man the tower at the first night. the good think about ns ganks is that they are super reliable even if the lane doesnt initiate. alot of other good gankers rely heavily on skillshots or dagger except maybe zeus and a couple other nukers. with ns you get a beefier frontline.
He can get a few kills and a tower but then what? Hes gonna leave mid and his tower is going to take heavy damage. If hes against krob its gonna die. Then daytime comes around and you're basically playing 4v5 because half of your skills dont work.
I just finished NS for the every hero challenge. I got 3-4 kills every first night doing exactly what you suggest (dual lanes, not an aggro tri though). Usually took the tower too. Then we got over run because NS doesnt do very well against the krob skywrath doom void razor team I always find myself up against.
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ns is decent against splitpushers and very good against gankers
so pretty bad right now
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he actually rapes tinker if caught pushing a lane
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On September 12 2014 19:41 icystorage wrote:
he actually rapes tinker if caught pushing a lane
TBH, its not that good until he gets an aghs.
And even then...unless tinker was super shut down (how?) ....he can't really kill tinker without a lot of help due to shift queue blink.
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the window is when he has bots no blink though after that then idk
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United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2014 14:38 icystorage wrote:He was referring mid NS ganking the tri vs tri i think
He's not a bad aggressive trilane hero either, but it works only really because if you win an aggressive trilane, you're just pretty much always way ahead. It's basically just high base stats + strong low-level nuke that make him work--not really anything special.
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If dual lanes came back he could be good in aggro dual lanes as well. A Night Stalker that is ahead in a 2v2 is still a scary Night Stalker. Also good about him is that there are a lot of heroes you can pair with him to give you some really scary lanes.
Funny enough (at 3.5k MMR) I had Bane/Night Stalker lane and completely crushed a Lich/VS/Spectre trilane. This is pretty low level though so take it with a grain of salt.
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I really wish that the next patch gives him a buff, I miss so much seeing him.
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Well, the patch did buff him. Anyone had a chance to play him yet? The increased HitN and super buffed Darkness duration means he should be an absolute terror for a longer time early game. Probably ridiculously hard for enemy supports to contest runes at night since it results in a free kill for him. Basically looks like he should be mid at all costs with the addition of a bounty rune to help experience gaps.
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United States15275 Posts
While he did receive buffs, I would say he was nerfed by the patch overall. Most of the design changes work against his primary purpose and the gold/XP changes make it even harder to thread the needle between intelligent ganking and overextension.
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Okay, I was theorycrafting a bit last night and decided to take another look at Refresher Orb on Night Stalker. In theory the item seems to be one of the better items that he can get after his core, but I wanted to test the numbers before doing anything conclusive. Arguably, now with the buff to Hunter in the Night NS is even more reliant on night time to fight in the late game as he loses 90 attack speed now if he fights in daylight.
For the test I took a level 16 Night Stalker and gave him a Refresher Orb. I would use Darkness/RFO every time they came off cooldown starting right at the 4 minute mark in the game. I believe taht this is the best way to get maximum darkness time, but if I am incorrect please feel free to correct me.
Doing the test this way you can extend the night from 4 minutes long (starting at 4:00) to 18 and a half minutes (ending at around 22:30) with Darkness coming off cooldown just around the time day breaks again (and refresher shorty after that). I feel like the second part has to be mentioned because if you end up with no Darkness during daylight you are giving the enemy team a large window of opportunity where your hero is considerably weak.
I want to try it in a match, but as of right now I think that RFO is probably the best third item that a NS can get. I don't believe that any other item will give him as much as RFO.
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United States47024 Posts
You actually could get a lot longer of a continuous night before the night timing change.
The thing is that Night Stalker simply doesn't need that long of a night. 40s downtime on rank 3 Darkness is simply good enough. It's shorter than BKB CD, and it's shorter than most other medium-long CD ults, so from a practical standpoint, you can't use more Darkness uptime more effectively than that.
RFO adds virtually nothing to your combat power. It only extends the length of your combat strength advantage of night time. However, this is essentially based on the premise that buying 5k worth of items that actually directly benefit your combat strength would not impact fight outcomes--and that it would simply be better to add to the duration. In close games, this is rarely the case--you want to make yourself stronger during your strong timings, rather than sacrificing 5k worth of items that directly benefit your combat ability to make that temporal period of strength last longer.
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Yeah thats what I found even playing around with it in a bot match. that gold sink really made him hit like cotton candy after I got it. I'm sure there is some build/team that could use it (even just for vision difference) but as a normal build I found it a bit lacking.
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What do you consider core for him? Armlet and Basher?
If I'm not farming well I actually consider getting SnY to a good idea and not be useless during the day.
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United States47024 Posts
BKB is the only major item I'd really consider core, and even then, WHEN you get it varies a ton from game to game.
Everything else is situational.
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EPT
