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On August 11 2016 13:53 DucK- wrote:
Wouldn't switch any player from this team. Its different from last year. Aui had to go because he was a burden in terms of play style. Zai gives PPD options for drafts, since he plays io and enchant. They still can't run Chen well though, ppd is bad at it and doesn't farm.
Hmm actually I would swap zai sumail and universe for 3 more fears. Best and most versatile player around. Can't do 5 fears cuz he sucks at drafting though.
Most Chens (especially the Artstyle variety) are run as 3/4 hybrid jungler into Semi-core. ppd always plays a hard-5. That makes Chen less valuable, as a scaling mid-game hero, but EG still won both games they played it. And ppd looked fine on the hero.
I'll type up stuff about today's games against Ehome as I come down from the event, but the first point I want to make.
Mirana is really powerful right now for a few reasons. 1) Farms fast, with Aghs. 2) Double Starstorm is a brutal amount of damage from 15-25 minutes in the game. 3) Moonlight Shadow is a massive re-engage tool.
The weakness of Mirana is that she's pretty squishy until about 35 minutes in. Really needs 2 defensive items to be hard to burst down. But removing Moonlight Shadow makes the mid-game a whole lot harder, as teams have been abusing it all TI long. But EG rolled out the counter against LGD in game 1 during the group stages.
I give you: Sentry Ward Gaming.
Game 1: EG is Radiant, Ehome is Dire. EG has Mirana.
In a 75 minute game, EG placed 26 wards & bought 0 dust.
Ehome placed 24 wards & used 0 dusts (though bought 2).
Game 2: EG is Dire, Ehome is Radiant. Ehome has Mirana (as a first pick, which was really smart from them).
In a 38 minute game, EG placed 16 wards (while buying 32) & 4 dust (6 purchased).
That's how you counter mid-game Mirana. Your supports always have sentries & dust. Those extra 2-3 kills don't net you much gold, but they stall item progression so badly for heroes during the mid-game that most teams can't come back.
Game 1 against LGD will still be better, though, since ppd & Zai managed to lay an entire chain of wards from their bottom tier 2 all the way to LGD's base. (LGD was Dire).
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On August 11 2016 14:10 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 13:53 DucK- wrote:
Wouldn't switch any player from this team. Its different from last year. Aui had to go because he was a burden in terms of play style. Zai gives PPD options for drafts, since he plays io and enchant. They still can't run Chen well though, ppd is bad at it and doesn't farm.
Hmm actually I would swap zai sumail and universe for 3 more fears. Best and most versatile player around. Can't do 5 fears cuz he sucks at drafting though. ppd is pretty good at chen, maybe not the best but def good enough to make it work when it's a good draft choice.
Not really. Very basic Chen control. Enough to win games via clear draft wins. Not enough to dominate early mid game like artstyle does. And that's a problem when drafts are even. You end up having PPD on a hero that only contributes mek + rank 2 hand of god. Meanwhile artstyle would have ancients pushing, and maybe an ac + force on top of it.
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On August 11 2016 14:46 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 13:53 DucK- wrote:
Wouldn't switch any player from this team. Its different from last year. Aui had to go because he was a burden in terms of play style. Zai gives PPD options for drafts, since he plays io and enchant. They still can't run Chen well though, ppd is bad at it and doesn't farm.
Hmm actually I would swap zai sumail and universe for 3 more fears. Best and most versatile player around. Can't do 5 fears cuz he sucks at drafting though. Most Chens (especially the Artstyle variety) are run as 3/4 hybrid jungler into Semi-core. ppd always plays a hard-5. That makes Chen less valuable, as a scaling mid-game hero, but EG still won both games they played it. And ppd looked fine on the hero. I'll type up stuff about today's games against Ehome as I come down from the event, but the first point I want to make. Mirana is really powerful right now for a few reasons. 1) Farms fast, with Aghs. 2) Double Starstorm is a brutal amount of damage from 15-25 minutes in the game. 3) Moonlight Shadow is a massive re-engage tool. The weakness of Mirana is that she's pretty squishy until about 35 minutes in. Really needs 2 defensive items to be hard to burst down. But removing Moonlight Shadow makes the mid-game a whole lot harder, as teams have been abusing it all TI long. But EG rolled out the counter against LGD in game 1 during the group stages. I give you: Sentry Ward Gaming. Game 1: EG is Radiant, Ehome is Dire. EG has Mirana. In a 75 minute game, EG placed 26 wards & bought 0 dust. Ehome placed 24 wards & used 0 dusts (though bought 2). Game 2: EG is Dire, Ehome is Radiant. Ehome has Mirana (as a first pick, which was really smart from them). In a 38 minute game, EG placed 16 wards (while buying 32) & 4 dust (6 purchased). That's how you counter mid-game Mirana. Your supports always have sentries & dust. Those extra 2-3 kills don't net you much gold, but they stall item progression so badly for heroes during the mid-game that most teams can't come back. Game 1 against LGD will still be better, though, since ppd & Zai managed to lay an entire chain of wards from their bottom tier 2 all the way to LGD's base. (LGD was Dire).
Yea I get that be plays the hero as a 5. That works when you have a draft win, but when its even you wonder why pick this hero at all. PPD Chen does not take control of the game or help his team dominate the early game. He won navi because navi navi had nothing against their neutral assisted push. Plus he got totally shit on by artstyle enchant. They won escape without PPD helping out much in lanes. They almost won alliance with PPD not ganking much as well.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On August 11 2016 13:44 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Pandemona, I hope you were able to sleep after that, haha.
Haha i ended up falling asleep 6am uk time which was about 1hour after it finished xD
Holy moly!
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On August 11 2016 16:39 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 13:44 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Pandemona, I hope you were able to sleep after that, haha. Haha i ended up falling asleep 6am uk time which was about 1hour after it finished xD Holy moly!
Haha, well, at least some sleep.
Highlights of game 1.
The only way EG was still in that game is due to Ehome being bad at hitting towers. It's fascinating just how much damage EG could output the entire game, and that doesn't take into account what the AA could do. (They actually missed a number of Axe Calls into AA Ice Blast setups.)
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That win gave EG all the confidence in the world. Kind of like the game vs LGD at last TI.
I'm glad that EG really did get the [A] late game loss out of their system and turn it into a huge victory.
Game 2 was a nice out draft (imo) when LaNm went for the Earth Spirit, and PPD went for hard to kill cores with nice defensive supports. I think Ehome was also banking on being able to pick up the ogre 2nd phase.
The only way EG was still in that game is due to Ehome being bad at hitting towers. It's fascinating just how much damage EG could output the entire game, and that doesn't take into account what the AA could do. (They actually missed a number of Axe Calls into AA Ice Blast setups.)
I felt like PPD missed a bunch of Ice Blasts that game. Also, that seems to be how Timbersaw is balanced, great on the map except when hitting buildings. You don't expect when drafting a Juggernaut and Warlock with Refresher Aghs with an Ogre bloodlust to be bad at hitting buildings.
Anyone else surprised at how little PPD has picked Dark Seer for Universe? Edit: PPD has not picked Dark Seer yet.
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I think it's mostly a matter of void > dark seer 
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On August 11 2016 21:35 Gaial wrote:That win gave EG all the confidence in the world. Kind of like the game vs LGD at last TI. I'm glad that EG really did get the [A] late game loss out of their system and turn it into a huge victory. Game 2 was a nice out draft (imo) when LaNm went for the Earth Spirit, and PPD went for hard to kill cores with nice defensive supports. I think Ehome was also banking on being able to pick up the ogre 2nd phase. Show nested quote +The only way EG was still in that game is due to Ehome being bad at hitting towers. It's fascinating just how much damage EG could output the entire game, and that doesn't take into account what the AA could do. (They actually missed a number of Axe Calls into AA Ice Blast setups.) I felt like PPD missed a bunch of Ice Blasts that game. Also, that seems to be how Timbersaw is balanced, great on the map except when hitting buildings. You don't expect when drafting a Juggernaut and Warlock with Refresher Aghs with an Ogre bloodlust to be bad at hitting buildings. Anyone else surprised at how little PPD has picked Dark Seer for Universe? Edit: PPD has not picked Dark Seer yet.
Fear actually dragged several heroes out of it with the call. But Ehome was pretty good at splitting & dodging all game.
Truthfully, most of game 1 really came down to how bad Juggernaut was in the draft. All of Ehome's gold lead throughout the game was negated because EG could easily blow up the Jugg. He was normally 3rd on Net Worth the entire game, but he was pretty much useless. So a 20k gold lead means little when he can be erased from fights instantly. And he + golems were there to hit towers. But as we saw in both Bottom Rax holds, he was easily dealt with by EG.
EG's ability to erase ~15-20k of Net Worth and 5k of Exp (with Aegis) from a fight instantly means that their 20k/20k deficit didn't actually exist. The game actually is more fascinating the more you analyze it. And the one time that net worth was useful was the fight in the Dire Secret shop, where old chicken got the Abyssal off on Sumail.
There also hasn't been enough notice that Fear was playing offlane and Universe was playing carry that game, to the point that Universe was surprised to be playing carry Void. (Said in his interview with Kaci.) But Axe was their counter to Warlock, as Call really messes up the Golems. It needs to be noted just how much work Fear got done with so little farm and being the sacrifice to initiate all game. (At 14 deaths, Fear was 4 clear of anyone else in the game.)
Oh, and, in this meta, Void is just a lot better than Dark Seer. They need some damage coming from the offlane (notice the currently popular ones, as batrider can lay down good Damage over Time in a team fight), and Dark Seer really just doesn't offer enough. He's the ultimate utility offlaner (and can always find farm), but right now he just falls off too much in the late-game. Same issue with Beastmaster right now. A 20k net worth beast master is of little difference from a 10k one. (Axe has the same issue, which is why Fear being so low didn't matter much. Sure, you'd like more defensive items, but 85% of the utility is acquired with 3 items.)
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Today is the day then, what is PPDs master tactics plan to beat Wings. In the group games we were picking Huskar, we were also freely allowed IO too. Wonder if he has a plan with any curve balls or if he still stick with the magic 4 of; Shadow Demon - Faceless Void - Mirana - Axe combos.
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I think EG will not let Wings have Sand King, and Wings will not let EG have Wisp.
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Im sure PPD will snag any of the ones u mention, Mirana, Void and SD are priority picks imo.
IO and Batrider are also first phase pick material.
My personal fav hero for EG atm is Void with Mirana on a good second place. They play so well around the Chrono, and Universe are delivering good chronos 9/10 times it feels, total boss 
Sumail has such a good understanding of Mirana atm, he knows exactly how far he can go with her in almost any instance of the game, varies his items for every game to what the team needs and enemy heroes he's against.
SD is just rly strong atm, and Zai is starting to beast it up with the hero with clutch saves and realy nice farm.
Hoping for some special tactics tho, but I am expecting more of the same from PPD, with those 3 heroes being his main prio.
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On August 13 2016 00:17 Atoissen wrote:Im sure PPD will snag any of the ones u mention, Mirana, Void and SD are priority picks imo. IO and Batrider are also first phase pick material. My personal fav hero for EG atm is Void with Mirana on a good second place. They play so well around the Chrono, and Universe are delivering good chronos 9/10 times it feels, total boss Sumail has such a good understanding of Mirana atm, he knows exactly how far he can go with her in almost any instance of the game, varies his items for every game to what the team needs and enemy heroes he's against. SD is just rly strong atm, and Zai is starting to beast it up with the hero with clutch saves and realy nice farm. Hoping for some special tactics tho, but I am expecting more of the same from PPD, with those 3 heroes being his main prio.
Universe has been amazing on Void since last year.
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Can we even beat DC tomorrow? EG was so outplayed today. Got to admit, Fear didn't have his greatest day as AM today.
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It is not that EG played bad today i think, but that Wings drafts so that the midgame is unstoppable. I think tomorrows games will be exciting.
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I'm doubtful of the EG repeat tomorrow. EG's draft was super clueless vs wings, if we can even outdraft DC. I think TI5 was a lot more predictable, this meta you can get surprised 10 different ways at each step.
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I would say EG picking wisp was a surprise so who know if there are more pocket strats.
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I would expect ppd to show up with better drafting tomorrow than today, but it will be a major challenge to get past DC and then Wings.
And I am entirely okay with that. Being able to get into shape as one of the few consistent elite teams again in such a short space of time is an accomplishment all on its own. Even if it turns out EG lack the breadth or depth to beat Wings in a Bo5 now, there is plenty of time to build on that for the future.
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On August 13 2016 15:56 HaXxorIzed wrote:
I would expect ppd to show up with better drafting tomorrow than today, but it will be a major challenge to get past DC and then Wings.
And I am entirely okay with that. Being able to get into shape as one of the few consistent elite teams again in such a short space of time is an accomplishment all on its own. Even if it turns out EG lack the breadth or depth to beat Wings in a Bo5 now, there is plenty of time to build on that for the future.
I wish I was more optimistic when it comes to the team being stable and not wanting to just disband after TI. Their game against Wings seemed off. EG confidence is that they can outlane and have a strong spike in the early game, but in these heavy team fight lines ups, it just takes key pick offs from the cores for wings to just snowball and knock down your towers. It reminds me how old EG use to play.
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To be fair, the primary factors behind the year of lineup changes (Aui, Arteezy) appear to no longer be a problem, and by problem I mean gone forever. Universe did also leave, but I daresay Secret's ... "performance" with him has burned that bridge, especially if they keep their cores.
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You could say the same about EG losing to CDEC last year in the UB Finals. In Game 2 of that series, EG got destroyed in 20 minutes, and that was when they were on the top of their game. I wouldn't count them out, they have a fair shot of repeat.
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EPT
