EPTEvil Geniuses Discussion - Page 121
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
ppd + Universe have now placed at least 3rd in 6 of the last 7 Valve-sponsered events. (TI4, DAC, TI5, Frankfurt, Shanghai and TI6.) That's easily the best duo paring in Dota history. I was concerned that they would lose to DC going into today. Not because EG lost to Wings, but that DC had simply found a groove and w33ha had found his Shanghai form again. You win a Valve event by at least 1 of your players reaching that "next level". EG is insanely consistent, which is why they keep getting here, but that last little edge isn't something you can just "produce". (Think the New England Patriots right now. They're *always* in the title discussion, regardless of the roster because of their Coach & QB.) But you need some breaks to go your way in every tournament, and it simply didn't this time. There's also the subtle issue that ppd's hard-5 approach really fell out of favor at the end of this meta. And I think the ~2 months of practicing together started to show up when things got super detailed at the end of a TI. Their coordination couldn't quite find that "next level" as often. Congrats to Wings & DC, who both had a hell of a tournament and earned their placings. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
On August 14 2016 13:47 Taf the Ghost wrote: It was a great tournament. I'd have liked them to win, but you can't say that 3rd place at TI is a bad result. Especially after the first roster Shuffle going towards Manila. So the Open Qualifier risk most definitely paid off. ppd + Universe have now placed at least 3rd in 6 of the last 7 Valve-sponsered events. (TI4, DAC, TI5, Frankfurt, Shanghai and TI6.) That's easily the best duo paring in Dota history. I was concerned that they would lose to DC going into today. Not because EG lost to Wings, but that DC had simply found a groove and w33ha had found his Shanghai form again. You win a Valve event by at least 1 of your players reaching that "next level". EG is insanely consistent, which is why they keep getting here, but that last little edge isn't something you can just "produce". (Think the New England Patriots right now. They're *always* in the title discussion, regardless of the roster because of their Coach & QB.) But you need some breaks to go your way in every tournament, and it simply didn't this time. There's also the subtle issue that ppd's hard-5 approach really fell out of favor at the end of this meta. And I think the ~2 months of practicing together started to show up when things got super detailed at the end of a TI. Their coordination couldn't quite find that "next level" as often. Congrats to Wings & DC, who both had a hell of a tournament and earned their placings. I remember PPD once mention about the habit of winning in high stakes tournaments. They just came out of a crushing 2-0 from Wings to play a high spirited DC team who was crushing their way out of the LB's. I was a little disappointed in their panic base race decision makings, like you said there coordination still seemed a bit off. | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
I'd say 3rd is pretty good. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
I'm not so sure that this team will be stable. Remember that when Universe left charlie said lines had been crossed again (insinuating ppd keeps crossing them) and he believed it was unsolvable this time. Universe of course came back, but I think that was a business decision by him and EG to win some money this year because they knew short-term they would be able to do really well. I think with TI ending, Universe and maybe Zai will be leaving, maybe not as a unit. TI ending is the ultimate new chapter chance for players, and from the last drama (uni/rtz) it seems ppd mmay have burnt too many bridges. | ||
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
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Anamorph
236 Posts
On August 14 2016 18:24 lolnoty wrote: RE: roster changes I'm not so sure that this team will be stable. Remember that when Universe left charlie said lines had been crossed again (insinuating ppd keeps crossing them) and he believed it was unsolvable this time. Universe of course came back, but I think that was a business decision by him and EG to win some money this year because they knew short-term they would be able to do really well. I think with TI ending, Universe and maybe Zai will be leaving, maybe not as a unit. TI ending is the ultimate new chapter chance for players, and from the last drama (uni/rtz) it seems ppd mmay have burnt too many bridges. Do you really think after the secret experience he will leave the team? As a player he will reflect what happened, because his performance on secret was not even near world class. He played bad, even in the laning phase! PPD looks like he is able to enable universe, other captains cant. Why should he leave? From what I remember he is one of the best earning players in the world when it comes to tourney winnings, and its mainly EG, EG, EG he had that success. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
On August 14 2016 21:34 Anamorph wrote: Do you really think after the secret experience he will leave the team? As a player he will reflect what happened, because his performance on secret was not even near world class. He played bad, even in the laning phase! PPD looks like he is able to enable universe, other captains cant. Why should he leave? From what I remember he is one of the best earning players in the world when it comes to tourney winnings, and its mainly EG, EG, EG he had that success. It's completely different to have a few months to get comfortable with a team vs a year+. IMO they aren't even comparable. I see Universe as unhappy, but swallowed pride to make some money because he didn't think it would be possible to get to form on Secret in that timeframe. Now there's the chance to change teams and have a year to get in form, AND there's going to be a half-dozen high end teams looking to change things up. IMO this is a huge incentive if he really doesn't think he can work with PPD if lines keep getting crossed. EG is consistent, but I don't think PPD has the same draw of invincibility he did as a captain in 2014/2015. Universe said in an interview that his main goal is solidifying himself as GOAT, and I think that could mean venturing to a new team in hopes of exceeding EG. Zai similarly saw EG as having a lower cieling of greatness at the end of 2014 when he left EG, and I don't know if his mind has changed either. He also wasn't content staying at 4 position. Fear, Universe, and Zai are all potential changes imo. Fear from retirement if his ~cryptic tweets~ come true. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
On August 14 2016 18:24 lolnoty wrote: RE: roster changes I'm not so sure that this team will be stable. Remember that when Universe left charlie said lines had been crossed again (insinuating ppd keeps crossing them) and he believed it was unsolvable this time. Universe of course came back, but I think that was a business decision by him and EG to win some money this year because they knew short-term they would be able to do really well. I think with TI ending, Universe and maybe Zai will be leaving, maybe not as a unit. TI ending is the ultimate new chapter chance for players, and from the last drama (uni/rtz) it seems ppd mmay have burnt too many bridges. I mean if Universe stayed for a business decision then he should remain in EG as you can see his experiment with Secret was a disaster. | ||
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Beyonder01
Canada44 Posts
Would also be nice to have a loser bracket finals bo5 and a Finals bo5 too. I know this might be a logistical issue as would have to have them on separate days. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On August 15 2016 03:08 Beyonder01 wrote: Really wish EG had another crack at Wings... more than likely would have lost but I think it would have been a better finals. Would also be nice to have a loser bracket finals bo5 and a Finals bo5 too. I know this might be a logistical issue as would have to have them on separate days. Two Bo5s in a day is a bit too much for a team. Especially at the intensity level that TI is. | ||
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pyrocumulus
United States65 Posts
BibleThump User was warned for using Twitch Emotes | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
Big questions are if Fear's arm is good enough to hold up for another year. I don't see him walking away from top 3 money at any Valve event unless the injury regresses in a major way though. And maybe Zai might consider Secret but it seems more like he'd stay with EG. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On August 16 2016 05:47 hariooo wrote: EG was a single good teamfight way from the turning the narrative 180 in the LB. They lost one very closely contested bo3 to a team on a hotstreak and another bo3 to a team no one else at TI was able to figure out after group stage. This was a better result than most people hoped for before TI. It only looks worse because they had a great first 4 days of the tournament and looked to have a real shot of winning. Big questions are if Fear's arm is good enough to hold up for another year. I don't see him walking away from top 3 money at any Valve event unless the injury regresses in a major way though. And maybe Zai might consider Secret but it seems more like he'd stay with EG. Top-level Dota really turns on very small things. The Warding Wars between ppd & pld at Frankfurt & Shanghai Majors really were the differences between the teams. This is why a player has to reach their "peak" skill to truly get you over the hump at these big tournaments. I've mentioned before how MVP.P peaked at DotaPit. Their style fit that meta & their were executing it perfectly. (i.e. Forev kept surviving fights with 50 hp or less, then they could reengage after ultimates were down.) You normally don't see that type of peak at a weekend tournament, but it happens. To win in the late-stages of TI requires playing at the highest of levels. What is normally a "good day" in most other tournaments can just look bad at TI because the last few times have run the gauntlet so much. You also need things to break your way. Wings' drafting approach was always going to be a problem, but their team-fight coordination coming around is what let them win TI. (They were pretty much a meme-push/lane dominating team for the last 3 months. They just did it with every draft.) As for Fear, he's said he's been fine for a while. It's really just a matter of what position he's wanted to play. Remember, when RTZ & Universe left, he didn't switch back to Carry then. Though I think he works better with Sumail than anyone else they could find. Part of me feels like this next shuffle in the Western scene is going to leave a lot of weaker teams, meaning the stronger ones won't show up until after the Fall Major shuffle. | ||
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ChickenDieAlive
699 Posts
On August 15 2016 15:56 pyrocumulus wrote: https://twitter.com/SumaaaaiL/status/764582343147331584 BibleThump User was warned for using Twitch Emotes The boy is growing up. ;D | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
On August 23 2016 10:53 Chewbacca. wrote: Alex Garfield is out apparently. Alex out, old man and captain out, big changes are coming. | ||
emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On August 23 2016 12:04 5-s wrote: Alex out, old man and captain out, big changes are coming. huh? | ||
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