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On May 11 2018 11:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 10:15 sunrazgriz wrote:
i think 2 weeks is yoo short
wonder the frog will update patch at the middle of TI First Tuesday of every Month would be better. 2 weeks means there's always a new meta, but it always means "there's always a new meta".
Totally agreed, I'd much prefer once per month over patches every 2 weeks.
@teams: Since this nerf basically replaces the old bounties with free towers ever 5 mins for the team with mapcontrol I'm pretty sure we are going to see even more early fighting and pushing. Mapcontrol was always good, but not this level of good.
On the flipside early roamers like Earthspirit, Slardar, SB, NS and Tusk are probably dead in the water. They still can win the laning stage, but if they don't they are really bad. Ench can still offlane or offlane sup, so she's less affected, but it limits her options by a lot.
My prediction is that push drafts with a mapcontrol hero like Nyx are going to be the hot shit.
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I was expecting biweekly balance changes to be small and corrective if it looked like the meta was starting to stagnate around certain heros/items. In the past we've had cancerous heros take over the meta for months and that was a problem.
Instead it feels like Valve is using world as a test server and just trying completely random shit every two weeks.
I hope that whatever Icefrog is learning from this chaos makes future versions better, because TBH the recent patches have been absolute shitshows.
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On May 12 2018 09:37 6911750021 wrote:
I was expecting biweekly balance changes to be small and corrective if it looked like the meta was starting to stagnate around certain heros/items. In the past we've had cancerous heros take over the meta for months and that was a problem.
Instead it feels like Valve is using world as a test server and just trying completely random shit every two weeks.
I hope that whatever Icefrog is learning from this chaos makes future versions better, because TBH the recent patches have been absolute shitshows.
I don't think the changes themselves have been too bad, only thing spoiling the game is the pace with which the patches are coming out. I think we have had hero spell tweaks twice and environment tweaks twice in the last 2 months. That is way too fast if you actually expect people to explore all the possibilities the changes brought.
Also Valve's intention of using this new patching system to spice up tourneys (as per my POV) instead of trying to give its players a better game to play was pathetic and disgusting considering the amount of money and fame this game has already given them.
Reasons for my POV : Last 2 majors had patches released mid-way (or I guess previous day for DAC) that added new heroes to CM mode (I mean, seriously..???), and the other changes were pretty huge also. If you remember, the patches with comparatively insignificant changes (like the one playing with the buyback formula) came out when there were no pro tourneys happening. Also Valve hasn't made any real effort to improve pub play since this new system came out (actually made it more toxic with the riki change). They buffed zeus and spectre who were owning pubs anyway. Alchemist was already dumpster tier; they are still nerfing him.
Edit : I am aware of Valve's announcement regarding no patch release mid major. Still mentioning this because I did not expect this sad attempt from Valve to get money in return of cheap thrills using Dota.
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edit: first hypothesis is that this is
Wisp / Furion / Chen / KotL / Veno patch (LIQUIDS N VP PATCH)
i think this will prove true, so far KG upsets are just because they arent facing these global heroes just yet
i think this is a deathball patch which i very much dislike, games over just by choking the map, kinda not about back and forth dota, i think this is true, we just havent seen this meta evolve properly yet
we get to watch teams getting strangled slowly but surely
which is kinda painful to watch (not back and forth)
standing by my opinion that Wisp / Morph are two very ridiculous heroes
Wisp for a team that knows how to play it, i think is at the VERY TOP of winrate when they get it
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^do you have some numbers for the wisp? I agree with your estimation of morph, but imo wisp's buff last patch were much more minor than many people make them out to be, considering that his spirits are that much worse now. So I don't think a lot has changed for the hero.
To boot the bounty rune change is a double-edged sword since Io was one of the few sups that actually went bottle.
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https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta Wisp is near the top in win rates now in Divine. It used to be far below so might climb a bit more before fully stable. I do my part for keeping treant there. :p
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i duno i just feel this patch is gonna evolve more and more in favour of
organized teams with tempo routines for the bounties and the lane shoving
which maybe is liquid/vp? but i dont know.. not sure, the routines though,
just a very quick read from the obvious things of this patch
(dominating the ancient stacks, the runes too)
only me alone as a insignificant doto spectato, i dont like routines, but me as mid in pubs is quite enjoying it though..
additional routines in dota competitive also feels abit.. well..
its abit nicer (in previous patch) to see guys like DJ roam around taking bounties every 2 minutes and making his solo plays and his team relying on him.
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On May 12 2018 19:36 Yurie wrote:https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta Wisp is near the top in win rates now in Divine. It used to be far below so might climb a bit more before fully stable. I do my part for keeping treant there. :p
Thanks, was more wondering about the pro scene since we don't see him a lot there. But it's true that top MMR brackets are good for predicting where the meta is going.
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yea morph.. visage.. io
games ive watched.. im pretty sure they have 60%/70%+ win rate when picked..
whenever they are picked
maybe just because them pickers have been good teams (liquid , vp , secret won their 1 game vs KG in this tourney with visage , lgd with morph too )
even 70%+ winrate sounds not too farfetched honestly
also fnatic picked these when they run hot earlier
optic played it to mastery
vgjs did it aswel
hmm.
games that they lost, they didnt get these heroes, pretty sure thats what ive been seeing
secret won with their visage game,.. then they didnt pick these, and then lose.. maybe jz coincidence
(maybe that one game where Miracle's morph got shut down early by Doom vs LGD, but then morph still had 80%+ winrate easy atleast when played by both Liquid n LGD)
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enough of the dumb bounty runes and shrines shit. the tactical benefits of shrines before tier 3 goes down is cool, but not worth what it's done to the game. it's been nerfed to hell since inception anyway, it was a bad idea since inception, just remove the last of it
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On May 13 2018 23:41 deadmau wrote:
enough of the dumb bounty runes and shrines shit. the tactical benefits of shrines before tier 3 goes down is cool, but not worth what it's done to the game. it's been nerfed to hell since inception anyway, it was a bad idea since inception, just remove the last of it
while they are at it they could also get rid of mangoes. i cant take seeing everybody running around with 3 of them
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Hello dota, i am registering only to say
when i play public games
when i lose... its very hard to comeback, defending gives them more gold... (they get more gold killing me, the losing team, then i do, killing them)
and they have buybacks... and is like 20 minutes of pointless fights with comeback gold giving so little (maybe 1x400 gold more than the enemy get in a 4-2 death scenario), while they 4 bounty rune equals some 4x100x5(?) team gold..
when i win, the exact opposite.. seems the game is very much in my control, i can half ass a win
i do not enjoy this patch
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Not the fault of this patch alone, the game has been heading in this direction since 6.82/6.83 era.
Everything sacrificed in the name of watchability, spectators awed by the spectacular dmg and teamfights. Instead of balancing the games for the pro-scene, Icefrog chooses to cater to the lower tiers. Don't think that is ever a smart decision. Many said introducing comebacks and the penchant for handing out freebies for the baddies would create unintended consequences for the pro-scene and it did...
Mids and Offlaners can barely stand out anymore. Why don't players like RTZ and Sumail or any mechanically dominant players shine off mechanics alone anymore? They can't because all the freebie gimmicks.
I can hop into a game, play blindfold, smash my face at the keyboard, and you know what? There's a good chance I'm going to do something right, because everything is a spammy engagement now anyway, just hit your damn spells on cooldown and you'll probably hit something. Every game is the same anyway, you're gonna land shit whether you're good or not.
You can't dictate the game anymore. There's no danger of a Pushing team getting outdrafted by a surprise Gank style lineup. There's no Teamfight draft getting countered by a Push draft. Everything is spammy teamfight. Just no room to choose what you want to do on the map anymore. The game has been forcing you to play a certain way bit by bit, patch by patch till we have what we have now. I don't see it stopping because whoever is behind patching shows no interest in taking the game in the right direction. Zero danger 1 player on the enemy team can carry the game by himself anymore, at least there used to be a danger, and no you couldn't do this every game.
Hell the fucking last bit of skill left in the game was your drafting ability, now we have coaches....can this game any more nerf ball? Is there any skill left once could possibly have in order to set themselves apart other than fractions of a second landing spells? What decision making left is there in the game?
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i am done with dota2. i have a life and i dont want to commit my time to figure out the new shits every time i turn off my computer.
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pubwise
some weird vibes from this patch
not sure wat
games seems to slow down at 20 mins mark, and whichever team is winning by then
will strangle the other team by bounty runes.. and keep hoard bountry runes
base kills dont give much
farm and runes gives most gold
kills give you very meager gold advantage
especially low in terms of comeback.. teamfights seem to give half or even less gold than contesting the runes / waves
this is a mindset heavy new routine, taxes the freedom of a single player very much..
not just about kills and the big teamfights anymore.. cant lock my mind to the killing to farm mentality
its no longer about the important fight warmupp
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me personally i want the 2mins bounty runes much more, or atleast the patch long time before this
2mins bounty rune seems so proper n nice...
diluting the important points from 5 mins to 2 mins seems to be the usual play for less significance (a good thing) in the already too many important things in dota match, why this case its the other way around T-T
pub opinion only here tho
yes about losing winning... waiting 4x5mins (enemy team gathering runes while winning) for so many games feelsbadman
maybe i just need time to adapt..
positive thinking, maybe ill grow to love it again after 2 months 
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dat NP support by puppey
in IG vs Secret game 2
he snapped atleast
10 bounty runes by those teles, i think alot more,
thats 10++ x5x50/80/120/150+ gold
seems a very huge indirect BUFF to NP, an already very strong hero, even though they lost the game, i think alot of teams is gonna replicate this, those bounties worth ALOT more than winning teamfights, even when secret kept losing 5v5s, their gold keeps leading, an extra death in teamfight is 400x1 worth of gold, while puppey kept snap grabbing the bounties for alot more gold than that.
nnot sure if this is intended, but this is some huge impact buff, i dont think teams realize yet how broken this thing is, its like EZ bonus teamwipe wins, picking an already super strong hero gets a guaranteed huge teamgold boost, those global mobility/presence heroes are already strong before this.
honestly im very much against this 5 mins team bounty thing.. 2mins used to be for good 4position players
(a single player)
to get the spotlight
one of the ways me as competitive dota spectator to enjoy games, is enjoy the 4 positions playmaking and snapping his own personal bounty runes, now its kindof a team thing, i kinda get forced to view the game in a different angle,
, now its for winning/losing games mysteriously(?) it seems, its an extra routine that happens to be very important (teamwipe gold), burdened onto individuals, in a boring way of snapping runes, in an already very busy game, theres already too much to do, this just becomes a very mysterious reason for gold leads.
but ive talked too much already hahaha :D
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never a fan of the new bounty rune system when it came out, hate it even more now
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Felt like the game slowly turning into huge comeback mechanic. Buyback has little repercussion in mid game now.
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One person said there is no way to come back, other person said the game is come back mechanic. They talked about same patch. We are lucky that Frogo balance the patches and not someone else. The game seems in the best shape ever, with every patch.
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EPT
