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Merlini retires from DotA

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-14 02:55:17
February 13 2018 22:10 GMT
#1




I have no further intents to cast/analyze Dota 2. I have decided that at this juncture in my life, casting does not align with what I want from my future. I am a bit sad, but we must keep forward facing. Big thanks to all who have supported me, especially when times were tough!

Additional answers: -I have unfortunately rescinded my decision to attend GESC. -Stream will be intermittent, if at all. -No, I don't have a secret job at Valve.


A very sad day indeed.

Ben followed up his tweets with some further thoughts and details.

Follow up:

I’ve had to consider my options for a while now, and I have to look out for my future. Everything was going great while I was casting. I loved seeing my friends, and I loved Dota. That was enough to make me happy. But as you age older and older, priorities start to shift. Dreams start to fade, realizations start to set in, and responsibilities mount.

Let’s start out simple. I’d love a dog, but I can’t take care of it. I travel too much, and it would be supremely unfair to get a pet. So what? Just don’t get a pet. Problem solved.

And then a bit more complex. What if talent starts undercutting other talent and I get paid less, despite Dota increasing in popularity and mounting prize pools? What if organizers start saying, “hey, we’re going to cut your rates in half.” What power do I have to say no? I *can* say no, but then I’m not making any money. The opportunity cost of me not going is huge. I can maybe stream in the meantime, or do some amateur casts, but that’s only a temporary solution for a paltry paycheck. And this is tier 1 talent, mind you. If I have little leverage, imagine the leverage of some others. Anyways, if one or two of the tier 1 talent is missing at an event, the organizer isn’t going to take a hit. They know that, and they realize they have more leverage, and hence can fiddle with rates as they wish. I’m at someone else’s mercy despite being at the top of the field.

I always try my best to stay in touch with the game, know the teams/players, watch tournaments, and peruse some stats before I talk about the teams. I try not to talk smack about organizers. I’m almost never late. I keep my word. I played plenty of Dota. I’m reliable, and I’m honest. Simply put, I do my job. There’s a bit of room for improvement (learn more heroes, do more research on t2/t3 teams, etc.), but job-wise, I’m close to the ceiling. So I have to look for other avenues for growth. Am I skilled enough to play competitive? Clearly not. Do I want to make YouTube videos about Dota? The market is not sustainable for me, I tried. Do I want to actively engage and promote sponsors for more income? I have morals that prevent me from selling products that I don’t like or use myself. Do I want to accrue a ton of subs and stream full-time? I never shilled for subs because my soul hurts asking other people for money. Do I want to become a variety analyst/caster? No. Dota is my game. Other games piddle away in comparison. Is Dota going to be alive in 5 years? Probably, but it’s not guaranteed. I struggled to find ways to grow, and concluded that casting was only a temporary thing for me.

And then even heavier issues. What about when I get married? Do I want to see my wife/kids half the month and live out of a hotel the other half? What if I want to purchase a modest house at some point. Can I take on a mortgage in good faith that I’m going to have steady income for 20-30 years? Am I actually going to be able to pay that off? My parents are getting old, and their health is slowly, but surely failing. Can I take care of them? Do I have money to do that? Do I even have the time to take care of them before they pass away? Am I going to regret the choices that I've made in life when I'm in mourning when they eventually leave this earth? They've sacrificed a lot for me. For reference, shortly after my grandfather died, I reasoned with myself, "He gave up his life and his home...so I could be unhappy working ridiculously long hours at a job I don't love." I quit that week and started doing something that I liked (Dota).

It's not that I didn’t enjoy casting, or that I don’t like Dota anymore. It is an amazing game that has captivated most of my time for roughly 13 years. But it sucks not having a goal. It feels very empty to not strive for something better. I became more concerned with smaller things. Trivial things impacted me more. I'm a bit ashamed and disappointed in myself, but I had my emotions flare in Dota a while ago, something that hasn't happened for many, many games. And looking back at it, it was because I was overly concerned with the small stuff. Why? Because I had no big picture for my career. I had no professional goals. Half my college friends are doctors, and the other half are successful software developers. They are surrounded by peers that push them, teach them, and help them grow. I need that in my life. At some point in 2017 it hit me that some people looked up to me, and it was a sudden, strange shock, of "What am I doing?" I never really focused on what other people thought, I just tried to do the best that I could. But when I actually took a step back and looked around, it was a little surreal to see how unaware I was and how my aspirations had languished.


www.reddit.com
LiquidDota Staff
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
February 13 2018 22:18 GMT
#2
Merlini is a smart guy. He probably saw the writing on the wall.
High Risk Low Reward
PlayerofDota
Profile Joined May 2017
29 Posts
February 13 2018 23:26 GMT
#3
Well I mean there are like what 20 casters these days, almost everyone can be an "analyst", even in terms of hosts there are 4-5 people now, there used to be James and Bruno, but with so many casters and analysts and stuff, he wasn't going to be invited in all of them, like he used to and getting invited in 1 out of 5 there is not enough money there.

Also a lot of the people work so hard just to get invited to TI so they can make a proper salary, which was solid, but nothing major, seemed to be around 10k for hosts, 7-10k for tier 1 casters, 3-5k for tier 2 casters and co-hosts and even smaller for non English casters and hosts.

So if you live in say Russia or Romania or Mexico or Argentina or Peru and you earn say 4k US dollars that is enough money to get you through most of the year, plus you earn some money on the side and its a good salary, but if you live in the USA, Britain, Canada, Germany, etc... its basically enough money to get you through for like 3 months.

So with the average salary in the USA being around 40k us dollars, he would need to cast/analyze like 3/4 of the events to earn close, but bellow that amount and with work getting scarcer due to so many people getting into it, he decided to end it.

I mean he could work at a walmart or McDonalds and earn more or same amount of money as he would do through Dota 2 in terms of casting and being an analyst.

There is a lot of money right now, but only for players and its also favored a lot towards the established and already successful players, because qualification spots are few and far between and its hard to get within the money spots.
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-13 23:27:56
February 13 2018 23:27 GMT
#4
good luck to you bro! the game is so hard to follow lately, with frequent changes, i don't blame you one bit for wanting to dedicate time to something more fulfilling
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-13 23:33:09
February 13 2018 23:29 GMT
#5
also i would dare to say that, with a following of fans that you can reach out to, now might be a good time to go into some sort of business venture, if that's a thing

like, i'm sure fans would want to support you into the future, if given the opportunity
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-13 23:51:39
February 13 2018 23:43 GMT
#6
I feel like the time to have started a side project to turn into a business was a while ago. He's 30 and I'm sure there's some existential dread that comes along with that territory, it certainly did with me. He's an incredibly smart person with a degree from a world class university. I'm positive he could get a 6+ figure salary without batting and eye. Many of his peers have gotten married, it won't be long until they start cranking out children, it's a weird time. I'm sure he wants a level of stability so he can start on a similar chapter of his life and esports doesn't provide long term stability. I really wish he could stay around forever, but all things must come to an end unfortunately. He touched a lot of people and I'll miss him greatly, he helped so many of us understand this game we love on a deeper level. And, whether he knows it or not, left us better people. There's a Zeus shaped hole left behind.

<3
LiquidDota Staff
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 14 2018 02:01 GMT
#7
On February 14 2018 07:18 Spicy_Curry wrote:
Merlini is a smart guy. He probably saw the writing on the wall.

None of these Esports will last forever. They will always be at the whim of the publisher/IP holder and no one is making moves to have them exist any longer than that.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
February 14 2018 02:48 GMT
#8
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/7xd39i/merlini_i_have_no_further_intents_to_castanalyze/du7lrm1/

Merlini's further thoughts.
Papercappu
Profile Joined July 2015
Canada2210 Posts
February 14 2018 03:37 GMT
#9
On February 14 2018 08:26 PlayerofDota wrote:
Well I mean there are like what 20 casters these days, almost everyone can be an "analyst", even in terms of hosts there are 4-5 people now, there used to be James and Bruno, but with so many casters and analysts and stuff, he wasn't going to be invited in all of them, like he used to and getting invited in 1 out of 5 there is not enough money there.

Also a lot of the people work so hard just to get invited to TI so they can make a proper salary, which was solid, but nothing major, seemed to be around 10k for hosts, 7-10k for tier 1 casters, 3-5k for tier 2 casters and co-hosts and even smaller for non English casters and hosts.

So if you live in say Russia or Romania or Mexico or Argentina or Peru and you earn say 4k US dollars that is enough money to get you through most of the year, plus you earn some money on the side and its a good salary, but if you live in the USA, Britain, Canada, Germany, etc... its basically enough money to get you through for like 3 months.

So with the average salary in the USA being around 40k us dollars, he would need to cast/analyze like 3/4 of the events to earn close, but bellow that amount and with work getting scarcer due to so many people getting into it, he decided to end it.

I mean he could work at a walmart or McDonalds and earn more or same amount of money as he would do through Dota 2 in terms of casting and being an analyst.

There is a lot of money right now, but only for players and its also favored a lot towards the established and already successful players, because qualification spots are few and far between and its hard to get within the money spots.

no idea where you pulled this number from. most casters said they got paid more at TI than all event combine. so your number doesn't add up
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
February 14 2018 03:39 GMT
#10
LD stated in one of the reddit threads that BTS pays $15-35 per game cast, so if you go full time you can make $30,000-75,000 a year off of doing that. Just adding the numbers since he provided them.
LiquidDota Staff
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2623 Posts
February 14 2018 04:05 GMT
#11
Bye Merlini! Good things won't last forever, thanks for the work you gave us. Glad it was good for you and worked while it did.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3261 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-14 04:33:56
February 14 2018 04:21 GMT
#12
A big loss Merlini was always an enrichment for any panel.
That being said I can understand his decision and can't really argue against his logic. It's a shame though.

On February 14 2018 08:26 PlayerofDota wrote:
Well I mean there are like what 20 casters these days, almost everyone can be an "analyst", even in terms of hosts there are 4-5 people now, there used to be James and Bruno, but with so many casters and analysts and stuff, he wasn't going to be invited in all of them, like he used to and getting invited in 1 out of 5 there is not enough money there.
...

Honestly I don't agree at all. Just recently saw SLI Invitation 4, which was hosted by Sheever and for which Pyrionflax was put into an analyst slot. And you know, I like em both, they seem like nice friendly people and they always create a nice friendly atmosphere. But neither is adept at drafting.

Throw 2 analysts at that Panel and you are fine. Merlini, Cap, Blitz, Winter, Purge or pro players like Synd or PPD are all great. Fogged and Sunsfan are decent too. But that's pretty much it.
They added a single one (or ODPixel on occasion), but the way it usually works is that the analysts call picks they think might work and discuss why they could/won't work. But they can't really discuss that with Pyrion or Sheever because neither can judge a draft.

And I really don't want to bash Sheever or Pyrion, it's the tournament organizer who often just put casters into the analyst spot when it's not what they are good at.
low gravity, yes-yes!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
February 14 2018 07:27 GMT
#13
On February 14 2018 12:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
LD stated in one of the reddit threads that BTS pays $15-35 per game cast, so if you go full time you can make $30,000-75,000 a year off of doing that. Just adding the numbers since he provided them.


so let's say you make 30 per cast. 30000 / 30 = 1000 games.

That's about 3 games a day. I don't know on average if you could get 3 games a day. Each game is about an hour, with more or less the intro and the transition. So you're basically earning 20 dollars / hour, a part-time, close to minimum wage job.

I don't see that being sustainable yeah
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 14 2018 07:44 GMT
#14
On February 14 2018 16:27 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2018 12:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
LD stated in one of the reddit threads that BTS pays $15-35 per game cast, so if you go full time you can make $30,000-75,000 a year off of doing that. Just adding the numbers since he provided them.


so let's say you make 30 per cast. 30000 / 30 = 1000 games.

That's about 3 games a day. I don't know on average if you could get 3 games a day. Each game is about an hour, with more or less the intro and the transition. So you're basically earning 20 dollars / hour, a part-time, close to minimum wage job.

I don't see that being sustainable yeah

Minimum wage in the US is actually technically about a 1/3 of that, but obviously most states are higher and some (like California) are much closer.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
February 14 2018 08:50 GMT
#15
On February 14 2018 16:27 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2018 12:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
LD stated in one of the reddit threads that BTS pays $15-35 per game cast, so if you go full time you can make $30,000-75,000 a year off of doing that. Just adding the numbers since he provided them.


so let's say you make 30 per cast. 30000 / 30 = 1000 games.

That's about 3 games a day. I don't know on average if you could get 3 games a day. Each game is about an hour, with more or less the intro and the transition. So you're basically earning 20 dollars / hour, a part-time, close to minimum wage job.

I don't see that being sustainable yeah


I see these types of comments all too frequently on /r/dota2, even though there's never any source cited to support the claim.

I'm not sure what you consider "very little money", but for the record, we currently pay anywhere from $15-35 per game, per caster for online qualifier coverage. Rates are standardized, and the reason why you don't see more T1 casters casting qualifiers is largely due to their interest + availability, not our willingness to pay them.

That works out to anywhere from $30k - 70k per year for someone doing it full-time, which is a pretty decent in most parts of the world.


Going by LD's post of per game I'd assume that's per game, not series. So a 3 game series would pay 45-105, most casters do a few Bo3 series a day.

To make the same 30-75k range you'd need to make $15-37.50 an hour fulltime, 40 hours a week. 30K a year anywhere besides the coasts is a pretty alright living, it's not great but you'd be doing better than most folks. Anything above that is gravy. Most gamers live a super cheap lifestyle anyway, your hobby is your job, you don't have to commute or buy gas. $30k for a gamer life will get you pretty far in most of the country. Cap was talking earlier on stream, it's still a better time than ever to be a caster as far as getting money goes. It's just the long term prospects that have to be worried about.
LiquidDota Staff
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10665 Posts
February 14 2018 08:51 GMT
#16
Casting plus streaming is definitely more than sustainable. Merlini just looking to bigger, brighter things. He’s a smart man.

I’m gonna miss his casting. One of the very few I enjoyed and I don’t think I’m even that critical when it comes to caster preference.
Skol
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
February 14 2018 09:01 GMT
#17
On February 14 2018 17:51 Emnjay808 wrote:
Casting plus streaming is definitely more than sustainable. Merlini just looking to bigger, brighter things. He’s a smart man.

I’m gonna miss his casting. One of the very few I enjoyed and I don’t think I’m even that critical when it comes to caster preference.


Definitely, and I feel like Merlini could have done very well if he whored himself out a bit like most twitch streamers do for donations. But that's not the kind of person he is. He thanked people who donated but there was never much fanfaire, he never kind of prodded people along for them in ways most streamers do to maximize profit.

I really do hope that once he gets settled into his new life he comes back to streaming semi regularly.
LiquidDota Staff
MasterBayShawn
Profile Joined November 2017
Philippines12 Posts
February 14 2018 10:07 GMT
#18
Damn. This is a very huge loss for the Dota2 community. I just hope that this wont cause the game to go downhill. I feel like most of the old guards are probably starting to evaluate their future right now. Coming from a guy who's been on the industry for 13 years, his decision will deal a huge impact on other Dota personalities.

Anyway, I really hope that this guy will find success on whatever he wants to do now. He seems to be a very smart guy.

I guess we all can't run from heaven/responsibilities.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
February 14 2018 11:31 GMT
#19
Seems like a natural progression for some people to take a step back, especially when there's not a huge monetary reward in it for them and traveling around all the time can get quite tiresome. There's quite a lot of money in the dota scene but most of it goes to the top players. People can still play the game for fun and enjoy the big finals or events in general, but it's quite different to do it for a living.

I think Basskip would be a great replacement for what Merlini provides. Not sure how much time he is looking to put into casting/working at events but he has been great everywhere he has been in imo.
Merany
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France890 Posts
February 14 2018 12:19 GMT
#20
I'll miss your casting, you were one of my favorites out there but I believe you've made the absolute correct decision for the long term. I wish you the best!
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