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On January 20 2012 23:00 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 19:45 lozarian wrote:On January 20 2012 08:47 Klonere wrote:
I got into DoTA2 beta thanks to Bumblebee (<3) giving away beta keys on Twitter. I have watched Demon's and Dendi's stream quite a bit beforehand which really peaked my interest in the game. However I have never ever played any MOBA's beyond a few rounds of SOTIS in SC2 where I was affected by various substances.
I have no idea what I am doing, tried a few games with bots with Sniper using on of the guides on playdota but feel so out of my depth. Anywhere I should start, in terms of heros, guides etc etc? Leoric, with his newly buffed ulti, fat arse, and soul ring in the game, is what I tend to recommend. Hit me up on steam (lozarian) and I'll play some with you. Playing sniper is a sure fire way not to make friends and influence people. A farm dependant, positional dependant, squishy as fuck carry is a bad bad choice for a newbie. You will be in the wrong place ALL THE TIME as a new player, playing something that dies when breathed on is not a good plan. Hah, this. When I first played HoN, my first experience was watching some pro(testie) rip face with flint(sniper). So what do I do when I load up HoN the first time but select sniper and go mid.......vs pudge. I didn't even know how pudge worked......Lets just say my team was slightly upset with me by the 7 minute mark. Who to play and not to play. DO NOT PLAY AGILITY CARRIES, URSA IN PARTICULAR. DO NOT PLAY INVIS HEROES. DO NOT PLAY INTELLIGENCE NUKERS(heroes with multiple AoE abilities that you will need to know when and how to use). Who to play. Most strength heroes not named earth shaker, tiny, pudge, and doom bringer. Sven is a good pick. An easy(and great) to land stun, good team buff, and an easy to use ulti. Leoric(Skeleton King) is another great pick. Passive life steal, revive ulti, and a point and ckick stun. Very forgiving. Lich, Lion, and Witch doctor are all decent intelligence/stunner/team fight heroes that have fairly easy abilities to use, and don't need tons of farm.
Yep essentially the same with me, I was watching SK.Link (I think) play Sniper and rape with it so I was all over that. Needless to say I found myself getting way out of position getting killed even in bot games. I tried Doom Bringer before and really liked him, I'll learn him and Leoric to start then.
A few questions:
- How important is it to have a solid item/skill build down? Should I be learning them off like a Starcraft build?
- Is the matchmaking as good as Bnet 2.0? I probably won't touch it until I am super comfortable with 3 or so hero's offline, knowing the reputation that the community has for flaming noobs (not that I blame then, it being a team game)
Thanks a million for the help and answers <3 TL community!
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Short answer - not very, long answer - for the first 2 minutes, maybe. Past that, not so much. You know how in sc you have an opener, and then the shit hits the fan and everything can go to pot? Dota's "openers" start somewhere around when the first player picks a hero, and ends somewhere around when you find out what the lane setup is. Usually before.
The game is so reactionary and knowledge based that having a set idea is bad. Having a game plan - "I'm going to expand a lot and have mutas and ultras" is good, having a specific build "15 hatch 14 pool etc. Etc." is not.
It's more important to know what not to do, than what to specifically get. I mean, I almost always on silencer max glances and aura with a dash of stats, and go boots -> vitality booster -> treads -> more things. This is because it fits my game plan of "win my lane, get a bit tanker, decide what to do from there"
To steal a quote - "no campaign plan survives first contact with the enemy" - moltke.
In dota you are being fucked with from the first 30 seconds of the game. It is far more important to have a general idea, then work on your knowledge, THEN think about items. Until then, just ask whoever what you should head for next.
Skill builds are often less flexible, and when they are it's generally a matter of preference, occasionally a matter of laning. Rule of thumb : escape mechanism or disable first, then nukes, then scaling abilities. (It's a very big thumb)
No idea if matchmaking works or not, I do know that there s rarely a game thus far where I have been challenge in a lane, and I have 220 games under my belt at the moment.
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On January 20 2012 08:01 ahswtini wrote:
Speaking of soundsets, Ursa sounds terrifying in dota2
About that, Did you hear the Bane sounds they have on youtube ?
The guy is crazy as you you can be. Scary.
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On January 21 2012 01:08 Klonere wrote:
- How important is it to have a solid item/skill build down? Should I be learning them off like a Starcraft build?
- Is the matchmaking as good as Bnet 2.0? I probably won't touch it until I am super comfortable with 3 or so hero's offline, knowing the reputation that the community has for flaming noobs (not that I blame then, it being a team game)
Thanks a million for the help and answers <3 TL community!
A somewhat decent item/skill build is important, but most of the item and skill builds are fairly intuitive. E.g. if you play Lina, you pick the two spells that deals damage and not the spell that gives you an attack and move speed buff when you cast spells.
I don't have extensive knowledge of the matchmaking mechanics, but I do know that good players get placed in games containing a fair amount of bad players quite often. The matchmaking seems to priorize the balance of the teams over the relative skill level of the players in the game. That means that you can get placed in games with good players even if you're still a beginner.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Definitely don't learn skill item builds by heart. Rather try to think what each item and skill does for you and what you pick it for and then make the skill and item builds on the fly, depending on the heroes in the game, your position, how well you are doing etc. As for matchmaking, I haven't got a clue how it works.
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I don't suggest thinking about builds yourself if you're new, just follow the Chinese builds. Heck, even if you're experienced you should probably use the Chinese builds (be careful to observe why/when/how they use it though).
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On January 21 2012 04:21 Pseudoku wrote:
I don't suggest thinking about builds yourself if you're new, just follow the Chinese builds. Heck, even if you're experienced you should probably use the Chinese builds (be careful to observe why/when/how they use it though).
I think that's kinda the point. Don't just make a list and follow a build blindly, try to think about what you are doing, why you need those items and in what situations. Then you may even change things up if you find something you like. It's not like every one has the same builds in pro level or that low level pubs require the same things that chinese dota does.
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1010 Posts
some general things about a build do tend to remain the same no matter what
at level 3 you generally want a level 2 skill
if you don't have a level 2 skill at level 3 then you better have a level 3 skill at level 5
and at level 7 you want to have a level 4 skill
it is almost universally a bad idea to have all level 2 skills and a level 1 ultimate at level 7 for example
A good example of that is if i'm playing bounty hunter, i might get wind walk level 1, then jinada level 2, then shuriken from levels 3-5 so i have a level 3 shuriken when i am level 5, even though i didn't have level 2 shuriken at level 3
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Matchmaking works quite well from my experience. If you get near the top after winning a fair bit then you suddenly start having people like Loda and so on in your games. Only real downside to the system is that it wants to start games too fast instead of trying to limit the skill ranges more. So you can get somebody with a 70% win rate after 200 games along with somebody that has a 50% win rate and is probably 20% lower in mmr.
You don't get a total beginner nearer the higher tiers of games.
I basically feel the MM does the following, matches high skilled, matches mid skilled/new and matches low skilled. Three tiers due to how quickly the search range expands.
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Do you ever use the recommendation system? I seem to remember to report more people than recommend, though the overall count still isn't that far between them. I try to remember to use it to give whatever benefits it will have later on to players that deserve it.
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On January 21 2012 06:05 NeonFlare wrote:
Do you ever use the recommendation system? I seem to remember to report more people than recommend, though the overall count still isn't that far between them. I try to remember to use it to give whatever benefits it will have later on to players that deserve it.
I don't but I think people should. It makes no sense to focus on the negativity and not praise the good things ;P
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On January 21 2012 06:05 NeonFlare wrote:
Do you ever use the recommendation system? I seem to remember to report more people than recommend, though the overall count still isn't that far between them. I try to remember to use it to give whatever benefits it will have later on to players that deserve it.
No, I never remember to. It would be better if it was easier to acces at the score screen, as it is now I rarely remember about those features.
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On January 21 2012 06:45 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 06:05 NeonFlare wrote:
Do you ever use the recommendation system? I seem to remember to report more people than recommend, though the overall count still isn't that far between them. I try to remember to use it to give whatever benefits it will have later on to players that deserve it. No, I never remember to. It would be better if it was easier to acces at the score screen, as it is now I rarely remember about those features.
Agreed, its something you just forget to do, including it in the post game screen would make it so much easier.
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On January 21 2012 05:18 BeanerBurrito wrote:
some general things about a build do tend to remain the same no matter what
at level 3 you generally want a level 2 skill
if you don't have a level 2 skill at level 3 then you better have a level 3 skill at level 5
and at level 7 you want to have a level 4 skill
it is almost universally a bad idea to have all level 2 skills and a level 1 ultimate at level 7 for example
A good example of that is if i'm playing bounty hunter, i might get wind walk level 1, then jinada level 2, then shuriken from levels 3-5 so i have a level 3 shuriken when i am level 5, even though i didn't have level 2 shuriken at level 3
every game calls for different strategy / build orders / item choices.
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I can't decide which game is more depressing. Starcraft 2 where i just get frustrated with myself, or Dota2 where i get frustrated with every idiot i play with.
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Oh God, Russians should have their own server. It's really frustrating to play with them.
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On January 21 2012 16:31 Invoker wrote:
Oh God, Russians should have their own server. It's really frustrating to play with them.
Theyre even on US server sometimes too, lol... i have no idea why.
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On January 21 2012 16:43 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 16:31 Invoker wrote:
Oh God, Russians should have their own server. It's really frustrating to play with them.
Theyre even on US server sometimes too, lol... i have no idea why.
its dota, russians are everywhere :O
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On January 21 2012 16:31 Invoker wrote:
Oh God, Russians should have their own server. It's really frustrating to play with them.
This.
My thought process ingame
Russian on my team - Loss
Russian on enemy team - Win
2 Russians on my team, 1 Russian on enemy team - Loss
etc...
I think I've met about 5 Russians in Dota2 who weren't actively throwing the game. >_> I just don't get why.
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I played with a russian spirit breaker earlier today, who only charged people who were behind like 3 towers and pinged constantly and yelled in russian when we didnt tower dive past multiple towers to help him. After asking him multiple times to speak english he responded "Fuck yau Fucking fagget, okey?" Then left the match.
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EPT
