On May 15 2012 00:19 myopia wrote: linken's on morphling: generally good, situationally good, or generally bad?
I've been skipping it by going tranqs,aquila,manta with mixed results.
IMO its generally good. It gives stats and hp, which is obviously great on morph and allow you to keep more points in agi without really feeling the pain of low hp. It gives mana regen, which is required for him to farm effectively (waving from camp to camp/clearing creep waves) and keep high mana for escaping. And obviously the spell block is good too. Edit: also, if morph's low range is hindering you, then build skadi - its almost a necessity to control team fights, especially if you aren't going shotgun morph.
situationally good, depending on the other team really. if you go tranq aquila you WILL need a BKB in most situations, always keep that in mind. if you need it sooner than later you can just go yasha BKB then complete manta. unless you are really in trouble but by then you shouldnt have been considering linkens anyway
Just curious, but when going said builds, how do you deal with the fact that you almost never feel like you have enough mana to constantly keep up farming (obviously ring of aquila helps a little...) - or is this more of a early/midgame oriented build designed to maximize kills at that point of the game? (at which point, I almost feel like shotgun morph is a little more situated to be built around...?)
On May 15 2012 00:19 myopia wrote: linken's on morphling: generally good, situationally good, or generally bad?
I've been skipping it by going tranqs,aquila,manta with mixed results.
IMO its generally good. It gives stats and hp, which is obviously great on morph and allow you to keep more points in agi without really feeling the pain of low hp. It gives mana regen, which is required for him to farm effectively (waving from camp to camp/clearing creep waves) and keep high mana for escaping. And obviously the spell block is good too. Edit: also, if morph's low range is hindering you, then build skadi - its almost a necessity to control team fights, especially if you aren't going shotgun morph.
situationally good, depending on the other team really. if you go tranq aquila you WILL need a BKB in most situations, always keep that in mind. if you need it sooner than later you can just go yasha BKB then complete manta. unless you are really in trouble but by then you shouldnt have been considering linkens anyway
Just curious, but when going said builds, how do you deal with the fact that you almost never feel like you have enough mana to constantly keep up farming (obviously ring of aquila helps a little...) - or is this more of a early/midgame oriented build designed to maximize kills at that point of the game? (at which point, I almost feel like shotgun morph is a little more situated to be built around...?)
no its a farmers build at its very core. don't use waveform to farm, or bottle crow if you really must. people have farmed without perseverance anyway
the old standard morphling has always gotten RoB, and RoA is a natural progression from RoB on ranged agility heroes, its just a wraith band more. People usually go treads on morphling then get HP regen with either a bottle or RoH. treads are more apt for early/mid game fight but it's such a mediocre item now that tranquil is incredibly viable on a lot of heroes that need the regen, it allows core items to be built much more quickly since its a cheap item and it replaces the job of ring of health. not to mention it can be disassembled
i'm actually using it a lot on certain heroes like clinkz and weaver
On May 15 2012 00:19 myopia wrote: linken's on morphling: generally good, situationally good, or generally bad?
I've been skipping it by going tranqs,aquila,manta with mixed results.
IMO its generally good. It gives stats and hp, which is obviously great on morph and allow you to keep more points in agi without really feeling the pain of low hp. It gives mana regen, which is required for him to farm effectively (waving from camp to camp/clearing creep waves) and keep high mana for escaping. And obviously the spell block is good too. Edit: also, if morph's low range is hindering you, then build skadi - its almost a necessity to control team fights, especially if you aren't going shotgun morph.
situationally good, depending on the other team really. if you go tranq aquila you WILL need a BKB in most situations, always keep that in mind. if you need it sooner than later you can just go yasha BKB then complete manta. unless you are really in trouble but by then you shouldnt have been considering linkens anyway
Just curious, but when going said builds, how do you deal with the fact that you almost never feel like you have enough mana to constantly keep up farming (obviously ring of aquila helps a little...) - or is this more of a early/midgame oriented build designed to maximize kills at that point of the game? (at which point, I almost feel like shotgun morph is a little more situated to be built around...?)
no its a farmers build at its very core. don't use waveform to farm, or bottle crow if you really must. people have farmed without perseverance anyway
the old standard morphling has always gotten RoB, and RoA is a natural progression from RoB on ranged agility heroes, its just a wraith band more. People usually go treads on morphling then get HP regen with either a bottle or RoH. treads are more apt for early/mid game fight but it's such a mediocre item now that tranquil is incredibly viable on a lot of heroes that need the regen, it allows core items to be built much more quickly since its a cheap item and it replaces the job of ring of health. not to mention it can be disassembled
Hrm, interesting... I just figured that utilizing waveform was just such a quick way of farming jungle camps (when lanes are pushed) that I found it really boosting my GPM when I was able to use it without much consequence (and more stats are always nice :D).
That being said, I might go ahead and try playing this style the next time I try morphling out. What core items do you usually stick with when building this style - manta/bkb? What extensions from this?
A bit late, but some points about the SF discussion:
- YaphetS' Phase+Janggo build originated from before 6.73. With the introduction of Ring of Aquila, there are options for other builds with similarly cost-effective buildup that don't commit to Janggo. - YaphetS and other Chinese SF players all admit to early Dagger being a pub item. It's a fun item for showing off superior micro, but in competitive games it's not a "safe" choice. In serious games, even someone with YaphetS' micro will put it off until his 3rd or 4th major item.
On May 15 2012 01:04 paschl wrote: If you activate it it gives as much attackspeed as a gloves of haste, and a little less than the movementspeedbonus of active phase boots. The stats are nice but for the same price you can get an ogre axe for the bkb and boots of elvenskin for your yasha. or you save 400 more and get the ultimate orb. It is a good item with a nice build up, im not trying to deny that but on a SF you should get more than enough farm to make you sell the janggo because your inventory is full. I just think its not viable if youre the main damage dealer. If youre not or youre aiming at an early finish its a good buy.
Janggo won't get sold until your 3rd item after BKB+Manta. You can fit Phase+Janggo+BKB+Manta+Wand+TP. Your most likely options would be Butterfly, Satanic, or Blink. If you're getting Blink, it's probably because you're trying to show off and it doesn't matter. Janggo is stronger than naked Eaglehorn or HotD, so you don't need to sell it until you actually have the completed Butterfly or Satanic on hand. By the time you've got that much gold worth of items, it's definitely had time to be a worthwhile item.
On May 15 2012 00:19 myopia wrote: linken's on morphling: generally good, situationally good, or generally bad?
I've been skipping it by going tranqs,aquila,manta with mixed results.
IMO its generally good. It gives stats and hp, which is obviously great on morph and allow you to keep more points in agi without really feeling the pain of low hp. It gives mana regen, which is required for him to farm effectively (waving from camp to camp/clearing creep waves) and keep high mana for escaping. And obviously the spell block is good too. Edit: also, if morph's low range is hindering you, then build skadi - its almost a necessity to control team fights, especially if you aren't going shotgun morph.
situationally good, depending on the other team really. if you go tranq aquila you WILL need a BKB in most situations, always keep that in mind. if you need it sooner than later you can just go yasha BKB then complete manta. unless you are really in trouble but by then you shouldnt have been considering linkens anyway
Just curious, but when going said builds, how do you deal with the fact that you almost never feel like you have enough mana to constantly keep up farming (obviously ring of aquila helps a little...) - or is this more of a early/midgame oriented build designed to maximize kills at that point of the game? (at which point, I almost feel like shotgun morph is a little more situated to be built around...?)
no its a farmers build at its very core. don't use waveform to farm, or bottle crow if you really must. people have farmed without perseverance anyway
the old standard morphling has always gotten RoB, and RoA is a natural progression from RoB on ranged agility heroes, its just a wraith band more. People usually go treads on morphling then get HP regen with either a bottle or RoH. treads are more apt for early/mid game fight but it's such a mediocre item now that tranquil is incredibly viable on a lot of heroes that need the regen, it allows core items to be built much more quickly since its a cheap item and it replaces the job of ring of health. not to mention it can be disassembled
Hrm, interesting... I just figured that utilizing waveform was just such a quick way of farming jungle camps that I found it really boosting my GPM when I was able to use it without much consequence (and more stats are always nice :D).
That being said, I might go ahead and try playing this style the next time I try morphling out. What core items do you usually stick with when building this style - manta/bkb? What extensions from this?
you really have to look at the game and see what you need, but tranquil isn't that much different from the old standard morphling simply because... big shocker! you can morph stats!
in reality this is actually a big reason its very much viable, because morphling is so loose with them stats. other than that if you skip linkens you will probably need a bkb, unless you're streamrolling so hard you cant get owned by spells etc.
there are really no extensions from that build that is really any different. one advantage with linkens is that it is an item you dont need to activate, which really helps a lot with split pushing, but that's about the only important caveat with not going linkens i think
On May 15 2012 00:19 myopia wrote: linken's on morphling: generally good, situationally good, or generally bad?
I've been skipping it by going tranqs,aquila,manta with mixed results.
IMO its generally good. It gives stats and hp, which is obviously great on morph and allow you to keep more points in agi without really feeling the pain of low hp. It gives mana regen, which is required for him to farm effectively (waving from camp to camp/clearing creep waves) and keep high mana for escaping. And obviously the spell block is good too. Edit: also, if morph's low range is hindering you, then build skadi - its almost a necessity to control team fights, especially if you aren't going shotgun morph.
situationally good, depending on the other team really. if you go tranq aquila you WILL need a BKB in most situations, always keep that in mind. if you need it sooner than later you can just go yasha BKB then complete manta. unless you are really in trouble but by then you shouldnt have been considering linkens anyway
Just curious, but when going said builds, how do you deal with the fact that you almost never feel like you have enough mana to constantly keep up farming (obviously ring of aquila helps a little...) - or is this more of a early/midgame oriented build designed to maximize kills at that point of the game? (at which point, I almost feel like shotgun morph is a little more situated to be built around...?)
no its a farmers build at its very core. don't use waveform to farm, or bottle crow if you really must. people have farmed without perseverance anyway
the old standard morphling has always gotten RoB, and RoA is a natural progression from RoB on ranged agility heroes, its just a wraith band more. People usually go treads on morphling then get HP regen with either a bottle or RoH. treads are more apt for early/mid game fight but it's such a mediocre item now that tranquil is incredibly viable on a lot of heroes that need the regen, it allows core items to be built much more quickly since its a cheap item and it replaces the job of ring of health. not to mention it can be disassembled
Hrm, interesting... I just figured that utilizing waveform was just such a quick way of farming jungle camps (when lanes are pushed) that I found it really boosting my GPM when I was able to use it without much consequence (and more stats are always nice :D).
That being said, I might go ahead and try playing this style the next time I try morphling out. What core items do you usually stick with when building this style - manta/bkb? What extensions from this?
Well I love shotgun - I 'get by' with just tranquila for regen to save all that gold for faster manta and eblade. Then it's standard stuff like bkb,skadi,butterfly,satanic.
On May 15 2012 02:14 cecek wrote: Ok, so is it just me or is Chilling touch (AA's third) the most underrated skill in all of Dota? Sure, his other two skills are more important to max, but people very often take stats over it later, which I think is a terrible waste. On level 4 with ideal circumstances it does 1750 magic damage in a teamfight. And it shouldn't be even too hard to set up, you just need to make sure all your allies get the buff sometime before the teamfight breaks out and then make sure all your five heroes do 5 attacks to the enemy heroes. Thoughts on that one? I feel that hardly anyone knows what exactly the spell even does, and they even bother finding out.
I do think some team will find a use for this, but what you described above is far from the ideal teamfight. The ideal teamfight nowadays is your team right clicking a tower, and running away when tp's come in. In a push metagame common to European / American dota, getting 5 right clicks in is difficult.
in reality 1750 damage in a teamfight, all spread out, isn't actually as good as you think, and this is speaking in ideal terms. for example, ideally qop's scream of pain does 1500 damage (to all possible heroes, 5) with a 7 second cooldown. of course not everybodys going to be in the aoe, but the same goes for chilling touch, which has a very high cooldown, you arent always going to hit heroes, gives a 15% as slow, and is non bursty. ideally, if all 5 heroes attack a single hero at once thats a 350 damage nuke. not too shabby, but seeing how unideal fights are played out i'd rather take stats over it.
another problem is that not all heroes are actually very good at autoattacking in teamfights
On May 15 2012 02:14 cecek wrote: Ok, so is it just me or is Chilling touch (AA's third) the most underrated skill in all of Dota? Sure, his other two skills are more important to max, but people very often take stats over it later, which I think is a terrible waste. On level 4 with ideal circumstances it does 1750 magic damage in a teamfight. And it shouldn't be even too hard to set up, you just need to make sure all your allies get the buff sometime before the teamfight breaks out and then make sure all your five heroes do 5 attacks to the enemy heroes. Thoughts on that one? I feel that hardly anyone knows what exactly the spell even does, and they even bother finding out.
I do think some team will find a use for this, but what you described above is far from the ideal teamfight. The ideal teamfight nowadays is your team right clicking a tower, and running away when tp's come in. In a push metagame common to European / American dota, getting 5 right clicks in is difficult.
in reality 1750 damage in a teamfight, all spread out, isn't actually as good as you think, and this is speaking in ideal terms. for example, ideally qop's scream of pain does 1500 damage (to all possible heroes, 5) with a 7 second cooldown. of course not everybodys going to be in the aoe, but the same goes for chilling touch, which has a very high cooldown, you arent always going to hit heroes, gives a 15% as slow, and is non bursty. ideally, if all 5 heroes attack a single hero at once thats a 350 damage nuke. not too shabby, but seeing how unideal fights are played out i'd rather take stats over it.
another problem is that not all heroes are actually very good at autoattacking in teamfights
Still you'd think you'd eventually pick it up, maybe starting at 14/15 or so.
Necrolyte one and the Invoker one (and the Juggernaut apocalypseslash) are the ones I like. The rest are just kind of "meh." I'd enjoy the Pudge hooking a blinking AM more but I've seen a slew of hooks from Butcher Chuan.
Prejudice.. I just stacked 5 games with russians I met in a pub and they were actually all very nice and we sort of stomped but one game. One even gave me a Cs:Go invite. Guess there is a lesson there about having an open mind :D
On May 15 2012 05:14 Erandorr wrote: Prejudice.. I just stacked 5 games with russians I met in a pub and they were actually all very nice and we sort of stomped but one game. One even gave me a Cs:Go invite. Guess there is a lesson there about having an open mind :D
you see, the russian you meet arent real russians... This is RUSSIAN we are talking about man, spy and shit you know?
on a more serious note: people on top 50 wins( http://stats.dota2.be/top50 ) are mostly faggots... play with them a ton and have most of them muted... jezzzzz
EPT
