EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 344
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On April 06 2012 19:49 cilinder007 wrote: Spectre really isnt a very strong 1v1 hero, she is an aoe presence in teamfights, baisicly untill you get radi+heart its hard to go against anyone with equal farm Yea i guess a free relic in damage and a big damage mitigation skill ontop of good stat-gain for her role makes her a bad 1v1 hero. She might not be the best 1v1, but saying that she's not strong 1v1 is not true. Even with just PB and Vanguard she will still be dishing out a lot of damage on heroes with equal farm and be able to soak up a ton as well. 50 pure damage is a lot pre-30 minutes. | ||
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On April 06 2012 20:10 Unleashing wrote: Yea i guess a free relic in damage and a big damage mitigation skill ontop of good stat-gain for her role makes her a bad 1v1 hero. She might not be the best 1v1, but saying that she's not strong 1v1 is not true. Even with just PB and Vanguard she will still be dishing out a lot of damage on heroes with equal farm and be able to soak up a ton as well. 50 pure damage is a lot pre-30 minutes. thank you everyone. also, phase over treads? is that consensus (like treads on AM) or is it a playstyle/situational thing? | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On April 06 2012 20:10 Unleashing wrote: Yea i guess a free relic in damage and a big damage mitigation skill ontop of good stat-gain for her role makes her a bad 1v1 hero. She might not be the best 1v1, but saying that she's not strong 1v1 is not true. Even with just PB and Vanguard she will still be dishing out a lot of damage on heroes with equal farm and be able to soak up a ton as well. 50 pure damage is a lot pre-30 minutes. so either you're not leveling dagger or you're talking about a lvl 16+ spectre at which point she should have at least a radiance and at that point other carries have quite some items themselves and they also hurt, but it doesnt really matter since you will almost never be in a situation like that | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On April 06 2012 20:36 cilinder007 wrote: so either you're not leveling dagger or you're talking about a lvl 16+ spectre at which point she should have at least a radiance and at that point other carries have quite some items themselves and they also hurt, but it doesnt really matter since you will almost never be in a situation like that Let me quote you. "Spectre really isnt a very strong 1v1 hero" This doesn't specify WHEN in the game, merely states that she's a not very strong 1v1 hero. Also, i skill desolate og dispersion but dagger over both. I have maxed dagger and desolate before i get level 2 ult. Spectre hurts 1v1 the second she has desolate. She might not be as good as others 1v1 before she gets some items, but saying she's not very strong is to me, incorrect. Also phase works with your dagger trail -> nobrainer that you go phase. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
On April 06 2012 20:49 Unleashing wrote: Let me quote you. "Spectre really isnt a very strong 1v1 hero" This doesn't specify WHEN in the game, merely states that she's a not very strong 1v1 hero. Also, i skill desolate og dispersion but dagger over both. I have maxed dagger and desolate before i get level 2 ult. Spectre hurts 1v1 the second she has desolate. She might not be as good as others 1v1 before she gets some items, but saying she's not very strong is to me, incorrect. Also phase works with your dagger trail -> nobrainer that you go phase. The dagger already gives you phase from the trail... so it's not really a nobrainer to go phase. Especially since ptreads will also increase desolate dps. I find ptreads more versatile for spectre, as it can give you the extra mana to cast one last dagger/ulti or the extra hp to survive. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
By using dagger with the terrain to your advantage, most heroes can't catch up to spectre anyway. Phase gives higher dps early but PTreads gives higher dps late game. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On April 06 2012 21:14 Pseudoku wrote: The dagger already gives you phase from the trail... so it's not really a nobrainer to go phase. Especially since ptreads will also increase desolate dps. I find ptreads more versatile for spectre, as it can give you the extra mana to cast one last dagger/ulti or the extra hp to survive. It's not the phase you want it's the movespeed, it lets you stick to a target and kill them without them having any chance of escaping. So yes, it is a no-brainer. You'll be moving at a good 450+ speed in fights, which i probably don't have to say is VERY useful. Especially because spectre barely uses any spells which means she does not dispel the movespeed effect from the boots. If spectre gets slowed or stunned, catching up to even a daggered target isn't always easy, with phaseboots on the other hand, it is. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
On April 06 2012 21:24 Unleashing wrote: It's not the phase you want it's the movespeed, it lets you stick to a target and kill them without them having any chance of escaping. So yes, it is a no-brainer. You'll be moving at a good 450+ speed in fights, which i probably don't have to say is VERY useful. Especially because spectre barely uses any spells which means she does not dispel the movespeed effect from the boots. If spectre gets slowed or stunned, catching up to even a daggered target isn't always easy, with phaseboots on the other hand, it is. Here's an example of ptreads spectre from EHOME 2010 (Dota v6.67c): http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227821 The dagger already slows the enemy by 18% and speeds spectre by 18% so I don't find it necessary to get phase boots. Ptreads is even more useful when you get diffusal too (which also massively slows the target, making phase unnecessary). | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On April 06 2012 21:14 Pseudoku wrote: The dagger already gives you phase from the trail... so it's not really a nobrainer to go phase. Especially since ptreads will also increase desolate dps. I find ptreads more versatile for spectre, as it can give you the extra mana to cast one last dagger/ulti or the extra hp to survive. I prefer treads by habit, but competitive play switched to phase boots on chasing melee heroes a few versions ago, when they reduced melee collision size then increased it again. They go phase on NS, for example, and you wouldn't think he needed the movement speed. Then again, with spectre and other radiance carries out of the metagame due to the early push strats, maybe power treads would make you a little more relevant in early team fights. Mirana players have switched from phase (mobility strat) to treads. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
FYI, attack speed does very little for practical DPS early and mid-game, it might boost theoretical DPS, but in practice you'll be auto attacking -> running -> auto attacking -> running -> auto attacking -> running since very few times will you be standing still just wacking on someone unless your team has heavy CC. And the two of you might disagree, but phase is the most common pick-up, and is what is seen in 90% of the cases on competitive spectre games. And using a 6.67 game as an example is a pretty bad example, that is 7 versions ago, plenty of things have changed. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
On April 06 2012 21:33 igotmyown wrote: I prefer treads by habit, but competitive play switched to phase boots on chasing melee heroes a few versions ago, when they reduced melee collision size then increased it again. They go phase on NS, for example, and you wouldn't think he needed the movement speed. Then again, with spectre and other radiance carries out of the metagame due to the early push strats, maybe power treads would make you a little more relevant in early team fights. Mirana players have switched from phase (mobility strat) to treads. NS doesn't have a natural phase ability so he can be blocked. Meanwhile spectre's dagger gives her phase. Plus NS has his ATK speed bonus at night which is very powerful combined with Phase early to mid game. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On April 06 2012 21:37 Pseudoku wrote: NS doesn't have a natural phase ability so he can be blocked. Meanwhile spectre's dagger gives her phase. Plus NS has his ATK speed bonus at night which is very powerful combined with Phase early to mid game. Often you're trying to clean up more than one enemy. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 06 2012 21:57 Firebolt145 wrote: Another reason I go treads is because I don't go any other HP items so need the str from treads. Why would you not go other HP items on Spectre. | ||
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