EPToh man, sing is so fun to watch.. dat tiny. ^_^
General Discussion - Page 156
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crms
United States11933 Posts
oh man, sing is so fun to watch.. dat tiny. ^_^ | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On February 27 2012 05:44 TheYango wrote: 5 bans per team is fine. Valve just needs to decide when they want to add the 5th ban. Bans aren't supposed to be able to take out all the strong heroes. The game would get stale that way too if you absolutely never saw Furion or Invoker get played. Indeed, you want enough strong heroes to remain in the pool so that the advantage of picking a strong hero first pick gets balanced out by the ability to pick two slightly weaker, but still very strong heroes 2nd pick (e.g. first pick Invoker, respond with Windrunner + DK). Ideally you never have "must-ban" heroes, but that's hard to get to, so the first-ban phase should cover that at least, and have some ban slots remaining. As far as the complete DotA 1 pool, there are two heroes that might be considered "must-ban" (Batrider and Lycanthrope are banned maybe 2/3 of the time), and there are about 5-6 other strong heroes that get each get banned about 1/3 of the time. You don't need your ban slots to be able to cover all of these heroes. Also note that adding new heroes to the pool will make some of the current "must-bans" less game-breaking. NS and AM probably won't be worth bans with the full hero pool in place (unless you're playing against Panda.Mu). well go back to any tournament games before The International... Shadow demon and invoker are always banned... I mean if that happen, why dont we just remove them from competitive play? There were cases where 2 teams agree to ban heroes out side of the system so they could create more interesting game play. In the end it come down to game balance but its impossible to make everything balance in a moba/dota genres games. I think increasing the ban count in CM will result much more interesting strategy with unseen heroes coming into play. Or we could implement a new format different from -cm such as each team draft a 20 heroes out of the pool and ban 5 from each other's pool. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 27 2012 06:35 NB wrote: well go back to any tournament games before The International... Shadow demon and invoker are always banned... I mean if that happen, why dont we just remove them from competitive play? There were cases where 2 teams agree to ban heroes out side of the system so they could create more interesting game play. Shadow Demon is an example of why we SHOULDN'T do this--because banning within competitive play is very often driven by *perceptions* of how strong heroes are, and by certain aspects of how the game is played, rather than by some absolute agreement that the hero is too strong. Consider that over the span of a few months (in fact a few months played on the exact same patch), Shadow Demon went from being near perma-ban, to being almost never played. Likewise Lycanthrope went from being a pretty good pick to being near perma-ban. Arbitrary rules such as removing the heroes entirely from -CM cannot respond fluidly to changes in how the game is played. On February 27 2012 06:35 NB wrote: In the end it come down to game balance but its impossible to make everything balance in a moba/dota genres games. I think increasing the ban count in CM will result much more interesting strategy with unseen heroes coming into play. Or we could implement a new format different from -cm such as each team draft a 20 heroes out of the pool and ban 5 from each other's pool. There's a tradeoff here that you're ignoring. Strong heroes put pressure on how the game is drafted, but in and of themselves are generally interesting heroes to spectate. You don't want to see Invoker played every game, but you also don't want to deny yourself the opportunity to watch masterful Invoker usage from players such as 430, Dendi, and Bulba. You want bans to encourage diversity, but you also don't want that diversity to come at the cost of losing the opportunity to see genuinely interesting heroes played. And I would say that DotA 1 is hardly stagnant, and we don't need to make that sacrifice. Throughout 6.72, we saw plenty of interesting strategies and uncommon heroes. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
On February 27 2012 07:16 TheYango wrote: Shadow Demon is an example of why we SHOULDN'T do this--because banning within competitive play is very often driven by *perceptions* of how strong heroes are, and by certain aspects of how the game is played, rather than by some absolute agreement that the hero is too strong. Consider that over the span of a few months (in fact a few months played on the exact same patch), Shadow Demon went from being near perma-ban, to being almost never played. Likewise Lycanthrope went from being a pretty good pick to being near perma-ban. Arbitrary rules such as removing the heroes entirely from -CM cannot respond fluidly to changes in how the game is played. There's a tradeoff here that you're ignoring. Strong heroes put pressure on how the game is drafted, but in and of themselves are generally interesting heroes to spectate. You don't want to see Invoker played every game, but you also don't want to deny yourself the opportunity to watch masterful Invoker usage from players such as 430, Dendi, and Bulba. You want bans to encourage diversity, but you also don't want that diversity to come at the cost of losing the opportunity to see genuinely interesting heroes played. And I would say that DotA 1 is hardly stagnant, and we don't need to make that sacrifice. Throughout 6.72, we saw plenty of interesting strategies and uncommon heroes. Ferrari's invoker play is quite orgasmic. You are quite right Yango. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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gosuMalicE
Canada676 Posts
On February 27 2012 06:35 NB wrote: well go back to any tournament games before The International... Shadow demon and invoker are always banned... I mean if that happen, why dont we just remove them from competitive play? There were cases where 2 teams agree to ban heroes out side of the system so they could create more interesting game play. In the end it come down to game balance but its impossible to make everything balance in a moba/dota genres games. I think increasing the ban count in CM will result much more interesting strategy with unseen heroes coming into play. Or we could implement a new format different from -cm such as each team draft a 20 heroes out of the pool and ban 5 from each other's pool. There is a mode sort of like that already, captains draft, there is a radom pool of like ~24 heros and the captains take turns banning and picking from that. Hope it makes it to dota 2 soon. | ||
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EZjijy
United States1039 Posts
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
On February 27 2012 10:34 EZjijy wrote: How do I get my items setup like synderen? If you're talking about grid view, just go into a game and click the grid icon at the top right of the shop. | ||
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DevilTheory
Australia14 Posts
On February 27 2012 08:30 gosuMalicE wrote: There is a mode sort of like that already, captains draft, there is a radom pool of like ~24 heros and the captains take turns banning and picking from that. Hope it makes it to dota 2 soon. Yeah, I reckon captains draft would be awesome. Really makes the captains think on their feet. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
On February 27 2012 11:20 noD wrote: Anyone knows that is "Dota 2 test" that appeared on my steam ? All new patches are released to the Test Server instead of the Main server to clear bugs. Therefore you can play all new heroes on the test server. | ||
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On February 27 2012 05:05 rabidch wrote: it's to be aggressive with ganking and pushing. the team doesnt really need the mana if they can get kills and towers into fast arcane boots and teamfight items @ no arcane aura and stats s&y is just some russian thing, i still think its incredibly inefficient if you asked me for the kind of slow it gives--the only consolation is that it goes through bkb. and they tried as hard as they could to throw that game without losing with the courier dying, repeated suicidal teamfights, and that kamikaze attack into radiant fountain. anyway teams have to beat na'vi at laning first before they can actually beat them straight up The Yasha makes very little sense to me, yeah, but there's logic behind getting the Sange. It's roughly 7 gold per HP compared to Vanguard's 8.9. So it's a bit more efficient if you're just interested in raw HP; too, it's also more HP - 304 to 250. If you want bulk up a bit, and you're ok with forgoing the regen, then Sange is better than Vanguard. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
Also sometime enemy creep HP bar change color to green which make my AI cant attack them and i have to manually target. anyone know why? ~_~ oh yeah and sometime model goes underground too... kinda hard to see | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
On February 27 2012 06:17 crms wrote: singsing does it again... rofl. oh man, sing is so fun to watch.. dat tiny. ^_^ I miss his stream  | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
On February 27 2012 15:56 NB wrote: hmmm im having trouble with post lag... some enemy heroes model just disappear which result i cant target/attack/see them... I dont see them on mini map either... Also sometime enemy creep HP bar change color to green which make my AI cant attack them and i have to manually target. anyone know why? ~_~ oh yeah and sometime model goes underground too... kinda hard to see goes away if you restart the game | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
or just reconnect | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
You act like he died, he still streams lol, doesn't he? | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh39/Kaddilicious/dota2-20120228-015945.png) SF buys rapier > proceeds to lose it in 30s, enemy doesn't notice > Pudge takes it and put it stash some people... :| | ||
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kaztah
Norway1221 Posts
On February 28 2012 03:04 DoNotDisturb wrote: Just had a game where we almost got pushed to death early, and shadowfiend and possibly Pudge were trying to throw the game or something. + Show Spoiler + SF buys rapier > proceeds to lose it in 30s, enemy doesn't notice > Pudge takes it and put it stash some people... :| If the guy just loses it in 30 seconds, you're better off just having it in pudges stash. Less risky that way and about the only way he can prevent the SF from throwing it away. | ||
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