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On February 22 2012 19:54 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 19:50 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 19:47 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:45 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 19:33 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:26 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 19:13 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:02 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 18:43 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 18:39 cilinder007 wrote:
[quote]
riki goes mom in competitive games sometimes, just not phase boots MoM is never a good idea unless you're winning by a huge amount or you need to take a risk. :/ I've seen competitive voids throw the game by getting a MoM, any half decent team will focus you for a second and watch you die. MoM works ocasionally if you're chasing or can make sure they wont leave your smoke. I've been playing DotA2 for quite a while and all my games are in the 'high' skill level and my team-mates don't make stupid items anymore and everybody kind of knows what they're doing. Gondars geting deso over battlefury and the likes. My games are also in the "high" skill level, and they're filled with idiots. Today our Broodmother who got a 35 min orchid(first item after ring of aquilius or w/e its called) was bitching that our alchemist got a BKB, "WOW ALCHEMIST GETTING BKB... WAY TO BUILD LIKE A FUCKING TANK AND BE USELESS". Also battlefury isn't a bad item on gondar if you are farming really well. *sigh* Orchid is a great first item on brood. But that is a quite late orchid. And if BKB was his first item it indeed was very stupid since he is naturally tanky trough his stat-gain and ult and building some armor makes him fairly beefy already. Also, let's see. Battlefury makes your farming better while deso let's you gank a lot better. A hero with a built in ability that gives him more gold trough ganking and killing than he can get trough jungling + his team in the area gest a boost of gold too almost making killing a hero like killing a tower for your entire team. He is best built as a killing machine over a farm-machine, there are other carries that scale better with the farm build since they're not the ganking monsters gondar is. Getting a medallion + deso let's you gank 10 times more effeciently than a BF does. And in some situations i'd argue that an orchid is the best item for him to get first, against certain line-ups. I think you're misunderstanding me. Orchid should have been his first pick up, I was bitching because it took him over 35the mins in a free farm lane to get it. Also bkb wasn't alchemists first item he already had radiance and maybe vanguard(can't remember). Also im not saying battlefury is the best item for gondar, im saying its definitely a viable item on himk especially in pubs. Depending on your enemies, your alchemist might have been quite stupid then. Alchemist has really really bad base-armor and if he built zero armor items the BKB would maybe save him from magic damage but not any kind of physical attacks. An assault cuirass is very core on alchemist for that very reason, fixes his armor problems. But I don't know, your MMR might not be high enough yet then, i don't meet those kind of idiots anymore and i haven't for quite some time. My teammates know what they're doing and so does my enemies. The only physical damage dealer on their team was morph. And I don't really see how picking up a bkb 40 mins into the game on alchemist is bad. If they had that much magic damage a pipe would indeed help your team a lot more and help you survive magic damage all the time instead of eventually only 5 seconds and it'll help all of your team. Rofl dude im not even talking to u anymore. U just keep trying to prove that it was somehow the alchemists fault and he was building wrong. We already had a pipe on pugna What? No i am not. I'm just saying that BKB is not really that most effecient item on alchemist. I didn't say it was your alchs fault or that he was building wrong. I'm saying it's not the most effecient item, there's a big difference. And if you already had a pipe a hood should be all he needed. I didn't say brood did the right thing because a 20 minute orchid is to be expected of a brood with the farming potential. She obviously has no place to blame anybody since she was playing incredibly bad. And obviously you are talking to me since you're quoting me. :/
I don't understand anything you are trying to say. I haven't been trying to argue that bkb was the best item choice, in fact that has nothing to do with it. Here let's start over: hi, I am pissed because of the amount of retards who are in my games.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On February 22 2012 19:59 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 19:54 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:50 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 19:47 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:45 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 19:33 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:26 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 19:13 Unleashing wrote:On February 22 2012 19:02 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 22 2012 18:43 Unleashing wrote:
[quote]
MoM is never a good idea unless you're winning by a huge amount or you need to take a risk. :/
I've seen competitive voids throw the game by getting a MoM, any half decent team will focus you for a second and watch you die.
MoM works ocasionally if you're chasing or can make sure they wont leave your smoke.
I've been playing DotA2 for quite a while and all my games are in the 'high' skill level and my team-mates don't make stupid items anymore and everybody kind of knows what they're doing.
Gondars geting deso over battlefury and the likes. My games are also in the "high" skill level, and they're filled with idiots. Today our Broodmother who got a 35 min orchid(first item after ring of aquilius or w/e its called) was bitching that our alchemist got a BKB, "WOW ALCHEMIST GETTING BKB... WAY TO BUILD LIKE A FUCKING TANK AND BE USELESS". Also battlefury isn't a bad item on gondar if you are farming really well. *sigh* Orchid is a great first item on brood. But that is a quite late orchid. And if BKB was his first item it indeed was very stupid since he is naturally tanky trough his stat-gain and ult and building some armor makes him fairly beefy already. Also, let's see. Battlefury makes your farming better while deso let's you gank a lot better. A hero with a built in ability that gives him more gold trough ganking and killing than he can get trough jungling + his team in the area gest a boost of gold too almost making killing a hero like killing a tower for your entire team. He is best built as a killing machine over a farm-machine, there are other carries that scale better with the farm build since they're not the ganking monsters gondar is. Getting a medallion + deso let's you gank 10 times more effeciently than a BF does. And in some situations i'd argue that an orchid is the best item for him to get first, against certain line-ups. I think you're misunderstanding me. Orchid should have been his first pick up, I was bitching because it took him over 35the mins in a free farm lane to get it. Also bkb wasn't alchemists first item he already had radiance and maybe vanguard(can't remember). Also im not saying battlefury is the best item for gondar, im saying its definitely a viable item on himk especially in pubs. Depending on your enemies, your alchemist might have been quite stupid then. Alchemist has really really bad base-armor and if he built zero armor items the BKB would maybe save him from magic damage but not any kind of physical attacks. An assault cuirass is very core on alchemist for that very reason, fixes his armor problems. But I don't know, your MMR might not be high enough yet then, i don't meet those kind of idiots anymore and i haven't for quite some time. My teammates know what they're doing and so does my enemies. The only physical damage dealer on their team was morph. And I don't really see how picking up a bkb 40 mins into the game on alchemist is bad. If they had that much magic damage a pipe would indeed help your team a lot more and help you survive magic damage all the time instead of eventually only 5 seconds and it'll help all of your team. Rofl dude im not even talking to u anymore. U just keep trying to prove that it was somehow the alchemists fault and he was building wrong. We already had a pipe on pugna What? No i am not. I'm just saying that BKB is not really that most effecient item on alchemist. I didn't say it was your alchs fault or that he was building wrong. I'm saying it's not the most effecient item, there's a big difference. And if you already had a pipe a hood should be all he needed. I didn't say brood did the right thing because a 20 minute orchid is to be expected of a brood with the farming potential. She obviously has no place to blame anybody since she was playing incredibly bad. And obviously you are talking to me since you're quoting me. :/ I don't understand anything you are trying to say. I haven't been trying to argue that bkb was the best item choice, in fact that has nothing to do with it. Here let's start over: hi, I am pissed because of the amount of retards who are in my games.
Phil, I had a game last night where a Weaver only had boots all game, and was sitting on 3.5k almost constantly, before dying because he just had to rush that radiance....
Still didn't have it after 40 mins
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On February 22 2012 19:59 PHILtheTANK wrote: Here let's start over: hi, I am pissed because of the amount of retards who are in my games.
The funny thing about DotA is that the retards are saying the same thing.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On February 22 2012 15:30 PHILtheTANK wrote:
U know what pisses me off? People who go mask of madness on faceless void, especially when the game isn't going well. I honestly think thats like the worst often used item choice in the game.
When a game's not going well MoM is a "bad" choice if the opposition has a ton of AoE damage or is consistently focusing Void. Of course, since you haven't said that I'm not going to assume it. If either aforementioned case is indeed what happened (though you seem to be generalizing), then yes, MoM is a bad choice.
Just simply saying "MoM is a bad item on Void" is silly. It's quite the item for turning things around and it doesn't matter whether MoM is the first item or not. Whether Void gets a damage item (Battle Fury all the rage) first and then gets MoM or goes MoM first, the intent is to Hail Mary--land a good chrono and the increase in damage taken doesn't matter. It's definitely not like Chronosphere is an ultimate that can turn a fight around by itself.
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Aghanim refresher void all day errday.
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On February 22 2012 16:08 ggahSoO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 15:30 PHILtheTANK wrote:
U know what pisses me off? People who go mask of madness on faceless void, especially when the game isn't going well. I honestly think thats like the worst often used item choice in the game. Boots+no regen first would like to have a word with you
I would argue MoM is even worse than boots with no regen.... at least if he has a babysitter he might not fail miserably. With the Mask of Madness setup....I don't particularly trust pubs to be able to gauge when they can safely enter combat, and use it effectively without getting murdered instantly. Half the Voids I see, use their chrono on ONE person in an attempt to snipe a kill. That being said , as Flamewheel said - it's not a bad item, it has its time and place.
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I always thought MoM was a core item for Void TT
And I love getting vanguard on my str heroes TT
I knew I was a noob, but this thread confirms it TT
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Mom is a good item in some situations as Void but overal I really dislike it, its 2.2k gold which is pretty much a Yasha, I much prefer to get Manta on Void, MoM makes him such a glass cannon, and if they have decent CC then you practically useless before you get BKB
its pretty good if you get BKB tho.
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On February 23 2012 00:34 Kipsate wrote:
Mom is a good item in some situations as Void but overal I really dislike it, its 2.2k gold which is pretty much a Yasha, I much prefer to get Manta on Void, MoM makes him such a glass cannon, and if they have decent CC then you practically useless before you get BKB
its pretty good if you get BKB tho.
Well MoM on Void basically means you relying on getting a good chrono then dealing a ton of damage in that space. So I think it doesn't really make him a glass cannon in the sense that it's for a specific purpose and if you can do what you need to do to make it work I think it's fine.
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On February 22 2012 18:50 jfourz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 18:39 cilinder007 wrote:On February 22 2012 18:12 jfourz wrote:
played with a riki today who went 0-12 and had phase + basher + mom @ 45 min
"riki why don't you get agi items?" asks a team mate
"my passive makes me do enough dmg already, i know what im doing"
uninstalled dota 2 on the spot riki goes mom in competitive games sometimes, just not phase boots dendi's tide goes maelstrom in competitive games sometimes do you see why that is a stupid thing to say
ftfy, or maybe I'm not watching enough 'competitive games'
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
IIRC manta on void used to create illusions that would 'fake' bash, IE the target would get a bashed debuff but wouldn't actually be stunned, and as a result your real void would not be able to get a bash through. That may have been fixed long ago though.
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On February 23 2012 02:39 Firebolt145 wrote:
IIRC manta on void used to create illusions that would 'fake' bash, IE the target would get a bashed debuff but wouldn't actually be stunned, and as a result your real void would not be able to get a bash through. That may have been fixed long ago though.
Yes, a real bash after the fake bash would extend the fake bash, doing nothing, while a fake bash after the real bash would extend the real bash. Since you have 2 illusions, the chance of getting fake bashes is bigger than real bashes. It was something like that, I'm not really sure on the details as well, but I definatelly remember there were some weirds mechanics involved with illusions and bash. I have no idea if they replicated it on Dota 2 or even if it was fixed or affected all kinds of bashes in WC3 dota.
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this thread has been officially
FLAMEWHEELED
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On February 23 2012 01:30 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 18:50 jfourz wrote:On February 22 2012 18:39 cilinder007 wrote:On February 22 2012 18:12 jfourz wrote:
played with a riki today who went 0-12 and had phase + basher + mom @ 45 min
"riki why don't you get agi items?" asks a team mate
"my passive makes me do enough dmg already, i know what im doing"
uninstalled dota 2 on the spot riki goes mom in competitive games sometimes, just not phase boots dendi's tide goes maelstrom in competitive games sometimes do you see why that is a stupid thing to say ftfy, or maybe I'm not watching enough 'competitive games'
The fuck? When has Dendi even PLAYED Tide in a competitive game, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gone Maelstrom on it, if it was a pub then thats a different story..
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On February 23 2012 03:47 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 01:30 DoNotDisturb wrote:On February 22 2012 18:50 jfourz wrote:On February 22 2012 18:39 cilinder007 wrote:On February 22 2012 18:12 jfourz wrote:
played with a riki today who went 0-12 and had phase + basher + mom @ 45 min
"riki why don't you get agi items?" asks a team mate
"my passive makes me do enough dmg already, i know what im doing"
uninstalled dota 2 on the spot riki goes mom in competitive games sometimes, just not phase boots dendi's tide goes maelstrom in competitive games sometimes do you see why that is a stupid thing to say ftfy, or maybe I'm not watching enough 'competitive games' The fuck? When has Dendi even PLAYED Tide in a competitive game, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gone Maelstrom on it, if it was a pub then thats a different story..
Yip Dendi played Tide and got a malestrom. Can't remember what game but might have been infused cup.
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On February 23 2012 03:51 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 03:47 Zlasher wrote:On February 23 2012 01:30 DoNotDisturb wrote:On February 22 2012 18:50 jfourz wrote:On February 22 2012 18:39 cilinder007 wrote:On February 22 2012 18:12 jfourz wrote:
played with a riki today who went 0-12 and had phase + basher + mom @ 45 min
"riki why don't you get agi items?" asks a team mate
"my passive makes me do enough dmg already, i know what im doing"
uninstalled dota 2 on the spot riki goes mom in competitive games sometimes, just not phase boots dendi's tide goes maelstrom in competitive games sometimes do you see why that is a stupid thing to say ftfy, or maybe I'm not watching enough 'competitive games' The fuck? When has Dendi even PLAYED Tide in a competitive game, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gone Maelstrom on it, if it was a pub then thats a different story.. Yip Dendi played Tide and got a malestrom. Can't remember what game but might have been infused cup.
Yeah it was infused cup iirc, he went treads urn maelstrom blink MoM
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United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:58 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 03:51 Numy wrote:On February 23 2012 03:47 Zlasher wrote:On February 23 2012 01:30 DoNotDisturb wrote:On February 22 2012 18:50 jfourz wrote:On February 22 2012 18:39 cilinder007 wrote:On February 22 2012 18:12 jfourz wrote:
played with a riki today who went 0-12 and had phase + basher + mom @ 45 min
"riki why don't you get agi items?" asks a team mate
"my passive makes me do enough dmg already, i know what im doing"
uninstalled dota 2 on the spot riki goes mom in competitive games sometimes, just not phase boots dendi's tide goes maelstrom in competitive games sometimes do you see why that is a stupid thing to say ftfy, or maybe I'm not watching enough 'competitive games' The fuck? When has Dendi even PLAYED Tide in a competitive game, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gone Maelstrom on it, if it was a pub then thats a different story.. Yip Dendi played Tide and got a malestrom. Can't remember what game but might have been infused cup. Yeah it was infused cup iirc, he went treads urn maelstrom blink MoM
Does it count as "competitive" when it's Na'vi stomping inferior teams?
Not much competition in that.
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United States7481 Posts
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every time i see maelstorm i cant help but remember the vid of alchemist solo roshan with 5 mael and MoM xD
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EPT
