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On February 08 2012 16:44 Font wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 16:28 Shikyo wrote:On February 08 2012 10:17 debasers wrote:On February 08 2012 08:20 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 08 2012 07:09 Sm3agol wrote:On February 08 2012 06:45 Hoban wrote:
My mistake with my lich carry game was going dagons. Our team had 3 carries on it, I was kind of hoping they would help kill people after I insta-gibbed the invoker. Next time I go 35-5 as lich, im getting a god damn desolater and ac. I totally agree though, frost armor is mega broken/most amazing ability ever. I don't always support but when I do it is either lich or WR.
On a side note, I hate people at my MMR calling enchantress a support. They act like I am their personal heal bitch. It is mega fun to pick her against a chen though. Chen comes to gank? Steal centaur, stun him, sproink him to death. All the success I am having with the gingers (enchantress and windrunner) makes me thing I too have no soul.
I think an initiator is a good pick for solo MM. Just tell your team "hey guys, im sand king. When I ult in and wreck them, follow me". Want a good initiator? Choose enigma. Not only do you then not have to worry about laning with an idiot, but you also get to initiate by dropping an ulti on (often) 3+ people in team fights. Man I randomed Enigma for the first time last night and it was just terrible. I think I would have enjoyed it if my teammates weren't so terrible. Even with me trying to gank all the time they lost the lanes so bad, except for our solo lane BM who just farmed and never helped in teamfights. We at one point got down by like 18-3 with all 3 kills being me solo killing people with the eidolons. I kept getting blackhole on 4 people, but would just get swapped or stunned because I didn't have time to farm bkb and our omni would never repel me. I personally think the best thing to play in solo queue pubs, is a tanky str carry like SK or DK(assuming you have a decent chance to farm). I still lose games playing solo mid when im 23-2 as Tiny and 15-1 as sand king. And then I lose games playing stupid carries like Riki even when i go 28-4 and shit, because people never help. I prefer to just play a tanky unkillable carry. To my experience DK is actually an awful hero to get in pubs Playing as DK in pubs awful? You max E first and you can get farmed no matter how retarded your team is, can even solo mid np, and after you hit lvl 16 you just 1v5 the pubs no matter what. One of the safest picks. That is a terrible way to approach this game... but keep it up, I destroy people alike you all day everyday. DK is a decent hero but you need a team... you cant 1v5, only hero that can 1v5 is spectre and maybe void if you get a good ult and you have 20k items
dk can easly 1v5 in pubs, takes coordination and burst dmg to take him down and pubs dont have that, you need items ofcourse but getting fat is not that hard in pub games and spectre takes faaar too long to farm up to be able to 1v5
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This whole 'work in pubs' crap needs to stop, and it will stop once more people join the beta and the matchmaking gets better and better. While pubs will always be different to scrims the days of 'rd pros only' where 80% of the players are indistinguishable from 'ap noobs only' are over. With a proper matchmaking system the top 2% of players only ever play the other top 2% of players. Better players will always rise to the top regardless of if they're playing a carry or a ganker or a pusher or support or any hero at all.
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On February 08 2012 18:02 AndyJay wrote:
This whole 'work in pubs' crap needs to stop, and it will stop once more people join the beta and the matchmaking gets better and better. While pubs will always be different to scrims the days of 'rd pros only' where 80% of the players are indistinguishable from 'ap noobs only' are over. With a proper matchmaking system the top 2% of players only ever play the other top 2% of players. Better players will always rise to the top regardless of if they're playing a carry or a ganker or a pusher or support or any hero at all.
The "works in pubs" crap will never stop because pubs are still pubs. Things will always work in them that wont work in scrims or w/e u wanna call them, and vice versa. Even in the "top 2% of players" there will be huge disparity and out of that range even more disparity. You could get great teammates or terrible ones even with decent matchmaking, and its a fact you'll have to live with.
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Enchantress is awesome, not sure how you find hex doesn't give you survivability, since most things are dead before it wears off. I'd definitely go for hex after your agha, either that or orchid, but I love orchid more than is healthy. Most int/survivability items are a good shout - I quite like necrobook on her, especially after the buff. Can even be a viable rush - before agha, any strong int who farms hard can reliably do that and make a massive impact.
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On February 08 2012 17:29 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 16:44 Font wrote:On February 08 2012 16:28 Shikyo wrote:On February 08 2012 10:17 debasers wrote:On February 08 2012 08:20 PHILtheTANK wrote:On February 08 2012 07:09 Sm3agol wrote:On February 08 2012 06:45 Hoban wrote:
My mistake with my lich carry game was going dagons. Our team had 3 carries on it, I was kind of hoping they would help kill people after I insta-gibbed the invoker. Next time I go 35-5 as lich, im getting a god damn desolater and ac. I totally agree though, frost armor is mega broken/most amazing ability ever. I don't always support but when I do it is either lich or WR.
On a side note, I hate people at my MMR calling enchantress a support. They act like I am their personal heal bitch. It is mega fun to pick her against a chen though. Chen comes to gank? Steal centaur, stun him, sproink him to death. All the success I am having with the gingers (enchantress and windrunner) makes me thing I too have no soul.
I think an initiator is a good pick for solo MM. Just tell your team "hey guys, im sand king. When I ult in and wreck them, follow me". Want a good initiator? Choose enigma. Not only do you then not have to worry about laning with an idiot, but you also get to initiate by dropping an ulti on (often) 3+ people in team fights. Man I randomed Enigma for the first time last night and it was just terrible. I think I would have enjoyed it if my teammates weren't so terrible. Even with me trying to gank all the time they lost the lanes so bad, except for our solo lane BM who just farmed and never helped in teamfights. We at one point got down by like 18-3 with all 3 kills being me solo killing people with the eidolons. I kept getting blackhole on 4 people, but would just get swapped or stunned because I didn't have time to farm bkb and our omni would never repel me. I personally think the best thing to play in solo queue pubs, is a tanky str carry like SK or DK(assuming you have a decent chance to farm). I still lose games playing solo mid when im 23-2 as Tiny and 15-1 as sand king. And then I lose games playing stupid carries like Riki even when i go 28-4 and shit, because people never help. I prefer to just play a tanky unkillable carry. To my experience DK is actually an awful hero to get in pubs Playing as DK in pubs awful? You max E first and you can get farmed no matter how retarded your team is, can even solo mid np, and after you hit lvl 16 you just 1v5 the pubs no matter what. One of the safest picks. That is a terrible way to approach this game... but keep it up, I destroy people alike you all day everyday. DK is a decent hero but you need a team... you cant 1v5, only hero that can 1v5 is spectre and maybe void if you get a good ult and you have 20k items dk can easly 1v5 in pubs, takes coordination and burst dmg to take him down and pubs dont have that, you need items ofcourse but getting fat is not that hard in pub games and spectre takes faaar too long to farm up to be able to 1v5
In my experience, dk most certainly cannot 1 v 5 in pubs without a ridiculous amount of items. He just does not have the dps, even with dragon form, unless you are multiple levels above all of your opponents, and anyone can pub stomp that. His E is super good, especially in the laning phase vs newbies, but it doesn't really help him much vs the burst you get in ganks and such. Playing dk and carrying hard wih no help requires more items than a void/AM/spectre/etc. He just doesn't have enough damage reduction or escapes to let him 1 v 5.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2012 18:02 AndyJay wrote:
This whole 'work in pubs' crap needs to stop, and it will stop once more people join the beta and the matchmaking gets better and better. While pubs will always be different to scrims the days of 'rd pros only' where 80% of the players are indistinguishable from 'ap noobs only' are over. With a proper matchmaking system the top 2% of players only ever play the other top 2% of players. Better players will always rise to the top regardless of if they're playing a carry or a ganker or a pusher or support or any hero at all.
"Works in pubs" is a distinction that's made even by top level Chinese players. It's not about how good the level of individual skill is--the top levels of Chinese pub play are as good as pro play with regard to the fundamentals--it's about the fact that certain heroes have certain assumptions and requirements they put on your teammates and require a certain level of coordination (e.g. hard carries with weaker laning require strong babysitting), and needing all those factors to come together, even when everyone in your game is very good, won't let you win as often. It's also not about the lack of matchmaking, because ladders in all regions have had rudimentary matchmaking/rating for a long time now.
You could play Spectre perfectly, but if the game simply doesn't reach the point where you actually have control of the game, you still won't be able to carry. You could be Shadowfiend mid, and if the enemy supports carry smokes and roam/constantly look for ganks on you, even if you play perfectly in response to it and never get caught, but your development will still never pick up--meaning that even if you play well, you simply don't have enough control to carry the game, and you'll still be relying on your teammates to take advantage of their lanes being 2v1.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Speaking of pubheroes, while not the greatest pubhero(esp if you solo Q as it can't really carry the game) Broodmother is so much fun in pubs.
because people don't know how to handle you
at all.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2012 17:29 cilinder007 wrote:
dk can easly 1v5 in pubs, takes coordination and burst dmg to take him down and pubs dont have that, you need items ofcourse but getting fat is not that hard in pub games and spectre takes faaar too long to farm up to be able to 1v5
In pub games you're not looking to pick a hero that can 1v5. Most of the 1v5-capable hard carries give up too much in regard to other things that you have to be able to accomplish in pubs.
There are 3 marks of a good pub hero:
1) Strong in lane
2) Strong solo-killing and ganking power
3) Strong late-game damage output
You need all three of these traits to take control of the game, push the tempo of the game forward, and maintain control of the game-flow all the way to the end. Dragon Knight's weakness in pubs is on the 2nd point. He's strong in lane, and has strong damage output when farmed, but he can't get solo-kills that easily. You need to use your ultimate to even have a chance to stun people in lots of solo situations, and if Breath+Stun+2-3 autoattacks doesn't kill them, you simply don't have a way to chase a kill down, even if there's nobody remotely capable of saving your target.
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On February 08 2012 17:07 Hoban wrote:
Been playing Enchantress all day long (9 games under my belt so far woop woop) and now I turn to the brilliant minds of TL subforum Dota 2 for guidance and advice. First off, the goods. I have only gotten to jungle her once (I practiced in empty games beforehand) and I am generally getting ~lvl 8 and 2k gold at the 8 min mark which seems decent to low. I open clarity, tangoes, 3x mantle. I make sure to stack if it is later than X:45 but I have not been micro-awesome enough yet to stack 2 camps at once. I skill depending on the situation but it is generally W/E/E/W/E/R/E/Q/W/Q/Q/R/Q/W ect ect. I like getting 2nd level in enchantment before picking up Q because it seems to be the difference between getting that last Impetus off in a gank.
Laning. She cannot die unless I am careless when my whispies are down. I have done solo lanes against CM/Jugg, double stunners, 3 person ganked, all of it and come out alive. It is quite ridiculous how hard she is to kill. I'm not really comfortable with her mid yet but for side lanes (generally 1v2) I go E/Q/E/Q/E/R/W/W then max Q then W take R blah blah. Q allows you to harass like a bambi out of hell. With proper mana conservation, you can push someone out of lane at level 6 ez pz. I like to start regen/2 str/2 twigs and get str treads and a bracer asap. After that, it is very hard to be bursted which is really the only way to die at this stage of the game.
Item build: Treads/Bracer/Force Staff/Aghanims
so this has been my core every game (sometimes I get a basilus but I don't feel I need it that much...idk)
After this...I have no fucking idea. It generally depends on the game but sometimes I go for sheep stick, other times I grab a reaver for the hp. I want to try linkens. I feel like getting an ultimate orb after Aghanims then building linkens will be exactly what this deer-lady needs to not be brutally murdered. It is like 260hp or something, nice stats (yay attack speed) mana regen (fuck yea impetus!). Once she gets Aghanims she does crazy damage so a linkens seems like a good fit. I don't really like sheep stick at all. It gives less health and doesn't save your life as often. I am open to other ideas though. Maybe a heart but that seems a little cheesy. I could see bloodstone being a nice pick. No damage stats just HP/Mana which is amazing for those sustained fights.
But yea, any enchantress stuff I would love to hear.
if you truly want to get good at enchantress... stop laning, 1 level in enchant for jungle, 1 in untouchable touch at level 4 and max out your heal(ofc get impetus)
starting build should be a basilius ring, with either 2 clarity or if you are truly awesome a smoke.
all this talk about pubs amuses me, this is not League of Legends, dota is a game of teamwork, you cannot win the game single handedly, saying otherwise is completely ludicrous. Also saying that pubs dont have burst damage is mind buggling because of how stupid such a statement implies.
You have to get this pub idea out of your head and this 1v5 idea off this planet or to any decent dota player, you will remain a pub till the day you leave us.
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Oh necrobook is a great idea! I am still working on my unit control but it would definitely help for pushing. I will try Necro -> Aghanims (skipping force) -> hex. I have never really used Necrobook before so this will be interesting.
And what is it about intense 4v5's, they always seem to bring out my best skills. It is fun trying to win from an underdog position.
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necrobook is indeed a great idea but a forcestaff first would be a better idea, it would help you gank and force staff helps you save teamates and is just a well rounded team oriented item, necrobook after that is a great idea tho.
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And if noone else from your team gets it, i would always go meka first
if you truly want to get good at enchantress... stop laning, 1 level in enchant for jungle, 1 in untouchable touch at level 4 and max out your heal(ofc get impetus)
Nah max enchant first and dont take untouchable until 10
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On February 08 2012 22:33 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 17:29 cilinder007 wrote:
dk can easly 1v5 in pubs, takes coordination and burst dmg to take him down and pubs dont have that, you need items ofcourse but getting fat is not that hard in pub games and spectre takes faaar too long to farm up to be able to 1v5 In pub games you're not looking to pick a hero that can 1v5. Most of the 1v5-capable hard carries give up too much in regard to other things that you have to be able to accomplish in pubs. There are 3 marks of a good pub hero: 1) Strong in lane 2) Strong solo-killing and ganking power 3) Strong late-game damage output You need all three of these traits to take control of the game, push the tempo of the game forward, and maintain control of the game-flow all the way to the end. Dragon Knight's weakness in pubs is on the 2nd point. He's strong in lane, and has strong damage output when farmed, but he can't get solo-kills that easily. You need to use your ultimate to even have a chance to stun people in lots of solo situations, and if Breath+Stun+2-3 autoattacks doesn't kill them, you simply don't have a way to chase a kill down, even if there's nobody remotely capable of saving your target.
Not just to you, but I'm mostly talking about low-level pubs where you mostly see 5 hardcarries or just some completely nonsensical stuff. Of course you can play proper roling after you get to the point where people know how to pick. Like in LoL even at 1200 elo which is pretty much really bad people always pick proper teamcombinations and you very rarely see those stupid picks.
I don't think solo ganking is THAT crucial as usually if you go to a lane and ping a few times, the Earthshaker is going to understand that he indeed should stun. When they don't understand is at the really lower level, when you indeed will be well of with DK as he lanes really well, gets farmed really well, and with 200ck at 30min when highest in the enemy team is 60 is going to do exceptionally well. Again, this is mostly for winning the games you should.
When you get to the MMR levels where you always have multiple people warding and counterwarding and mid knowing how to gank, you can obviously just fill in the roles, though I still don't really like supporting. In my opinion a heavy ganker/pusher like Shadow Shaman would do best there.
On February 08 2012 22:53 Font wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 17:07 Hoban wrote:
Been playing Enchantress all day long (9 games under my belt so far woop woop) and now I turn to the brilliant minds of TL subforum Dota 2 for guidance and advice. First off, the goods. I have only gotten to jungle her once (I practiced in empty games beforehand) and I am generally getting ~lvl 8 and 2k gold at the 8 min mark which seems decent to low. I open clarity, tangoes, 3x mantle. I make sure to stack if it is later than X:45 but I have not been micro-awesome enough yet to stack 2 camps at once. I skill depending on the situation but it is generally W/E/E/W/E/R/E/Q/W/Q/Q/R/Q/W ect ect. I like getting 2nd level in enchantment before picking up Q because it seems to be the difference between getting that last Impetus off in a gank.
Laning. She cannot die unless I am careless when my whispies are down. I have done solo lanes against CM/Jugg, double stunners, 3 person ganked, all of it and come out alive. It is quite ridiculous how hard she is to kill. I'm not really comfortable with her mid yet but for side lanes (generally 1v2) I go E/Q/E/Q/E/R/W/W then max Q then W take R blah blah. Q allows you to harass like a bambi out of hell. With proper mana conservation, you can push someone out of lane at level 6 ez pz. I like to start regen/2 str/2 twigs and get str treads and a bracer asap. After that, it is very hard to be bursted which is really the only way to die at this stage of the game.
Item build: Treads/Bracer/Force Staff/Aghanims
so this has been my core every game (sometimes I get a basilus but I don't feel I need it that much...idk)
After this...I have no fucking idea. It generally depends on the game but sometimes I go for sheep stick, other times I grab a reaver for the hp. I want to try linkens. I feel like getting an ultimate orb after Aghanims then building linkens will be exactly what this deer-lady needs to not be brutally murdered. It is like 260hp or something, nice stats (yay attack speed) mana regen (fuck yea impetus!). Once she gets Aghanims she does crazy damage so a linkens seems like a good fit. I don't really like sheep stick at all. It gives less health and doesn't save your life as often. I am open to other ideas though. Maybe a heart but that seems a little cheesy. I could see bloodstone being a nice pick. No damage stats just HP/Mana which is amazing for those sustained fights.
But yea, any enchantress stuff I would love to hear. if you truly want to get good at enchantress... stop laning, 1 level in enchant for jungle, 1 in untouchable touch at level 4 and max out your heal(ofc get impetus) starting build should be a basilius ring, with either 2 clarity or if you are truly awesome a smoke. all this talk about pubs amuses me, this is not League of Legends, dota is a game of teamwork, you cannot win the game single handedly, saying otherwise is completely ludicrous. Also saying that pubs dont have burst damage is mind buggling because of how stupid such a statement implies. You have to get this pub idea out of your head and this 1v5 idea off this planet or to any decent dota player, you will remain a pub till the day you leave us.
By the way that's kind of annoying as in especially LoL it's impossible to win 1v5 because even a brainless enemy team knows if you're 15-0 and your team fails they all just focus and dive you in battles and you can't do anything, there's no way to avoid disables there and Exhaust just ruins all carries from 1v5ing, wheres in DotA2 if you're really farmed and with a BKB you can actually 1v5 much much better. So saying this isn't League of Legends implying you can even try to 1v5 there just proves you don't know much about that game.
And again this obviously is just for games where you're significantly better than the 9 other players.
Oh but now an unrelated question, why do all DKs keep lvl 1 ulti until lvl 16 in all situations? I mean, I understand it generally is allright, but even in PRO games where the enemies have a heavy pushing lineup the DK still keeps the ulti at level 1 when Enigma and Prophet are pushing with mass creeps, I mean it just doesn't make any sense... wouldn't it be much simpler to just level the ulti up to level 2 to help defend from the creepwaves with the splash damage? The corruption is mostly good for pushing towers, and I don't think I've ever seen that come to effect in those games where the opponents are the ones constantly pushing all 3 lanes.
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On February 08 2012 23:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 22:33 TheYango wrote:On February 08 2012 17:29 cilinder007 wrote:
dk can easly 1v5 in pubs, takes coordination and burst dmg to take him down and pubs dont have that, you need items ofcourse but getting fat is not that hard in pub games and spectre takes faaar too long to farm up to be able to 1v5 In pub games you're not looking to pick a hero that can 1v5. Most of the 1v5-capable hard carries give up too much in regard to other things that you have to be able to accomplish in pubs. There are 3 marks of a good pub hero: 1) Strong in lane 2) Strong solo-killing and ganking power 3) Strong late-game damage output You need all three of these traits to take control of the game, push the tempo of the game forward, and maintain control of the game-flow all the way to the end. Dragon Knight's weakness in pubs is on the 2nd point. He's strong in lane, and has strong damage output when farmed, but he can't get solo-kills that easily. You need to use your ultimate to even have a chance to stun people in lots of solo situations, and if Breath+Stun+2-3 autoattacks doesn't kill them, you simply don't have a way to chase a kill down, even if there's nobody remotely capable of saving your target. Not just to you, but I'm mostly talking about low-level pubs where you mostly see 5 hardcarries or just some completely nonsensical stuff. Of course you can play proper roling after you get to the point where people know how to pick. Like in LoL even at 1200 elo which is pretty much really bad people always pick proper teamcombinations and you very rarely see those stupid picks. I don't think solo ganking is THAT crucial as usually if you go to a lane and ping a few times, the Earthshaker is going to understand that he indeed should stun. When they don't understand is at the really lower level, when you indeed will be well of with DK as he lanes really well, gets farmed really well, and with 200ck at 30min when highest in the enemy team is 60 is going to do exceptionally well. Again, this is mostly for winning the games you should. When you get to the MMR levels where you always have multiple people warding and counterwarding and mid knowing how to gank, you can obviously just fill in the roles, though I still don't really like supporting. In my opinion a heavy ganker/pusher like Shadow Shaman would do best there. Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 22:53 Font wrote:On February 08 2012 17:07 Hoban wrote:
Been playing Enchantress all day long (9 games under my belt so far woop woop) and now I turn to the brilliant minds of TL subforum Dota 2 for guidance and advice. First off, the goods. I have only gotten to jungle her once (I practiced in empty games beforehand) and I am generally getting ~lvl 8 and 2k gold at the 8 min mark which seems decent to low. I open clarity, tangoes, 3x mantle. I make sure to stack if it is later than X:45 but I have not been micro-awesome enough yet to stack 2 camps at once. I skill depending on the situation but it is generally W/E/E/W/E/R/E/Q/W/Q/Q/R/Q/W ect ect. I like getting 2nd level in enchantment before picking up Q because it seems to be the difference between getting that last Impetus off in a gank.
Laning. She cannot die unless I am careless when my whispies are down. I have done solo lanes against CM/Jugg, double stunners, 3 person ganked, all of it and come out alive. It is quite ridiculous how hard she is to kill. I'm not really comfortable with her mid yet but for side lanes (generally 1v2) I go E/Q/E/Q/E/R/W/W then max Q then W take R blah blah. Q allows you to harass like a bambi out of hell. With proper mana conservation, you can push someone out of lane at level 6 ez pz. I like to start regen/2 str/2 twigs and get str treads and a bracer asap. After that, it is very hard to be bursted which is really the only way to die at this stage of the game.
Item build: Treads/Bracer/Force Staff/Aghanims
so this has been my core every game (sometimes I get a basilus but I don't feel I need it that much...idk)
After this...I have no fucking idea. It generally depends on the game but sometimes I go for sheep stick, other times I grab a reaver for the hp. I want to try linkens. I feel like getting an ultimate orb after Aghanims then building linkens will be exactly what this deer-lady needs to not be brutally murdered. It is like 260hp or something, nice stats (yay attack speed) mana regen (fuck yea impetus!). Once she gets Aghanims she does crazy damage so a linkens seems like a good fit. I don't really like sheep stick at all. It gives less health and doesn't save your life as often. I am open to other ideas though. Maybe a heart but that seems a little cheesy. I could see bloodstone being a nice pick. No damage stats just HP/Mana which is amazing for those sustained fights.
But yea, any enchantress stuff I would love to hear. if you truly want to get good at enchantress... stop laning, 1 level in enchant for jungle, 1 in untouchable touch at level 4 and max out your heal(ofc get impetus) starting build should be a basilius ring, with either 2 clarity or if you are truly awesome a smoke. all this talk about pubs amuses me, this is not League of Legends, dota is a game of teamwork, you cannot win the game single handedly, saying otherwise is completely ludicrous. Also saying that pubs dont have burst damage is mind buggling because of how stupid such a statement implies. You have to get this pub idea out of your head and this 1v5 idea off this planet or to any decent dota player, you will remain a pub till the day you leave us. By the way that's kind of annoying as in especially LoL it's impossible to win 1v5 because even a brainless enemy team knows if you're 15-0 and your team fails they all just focus and dive you in battles and you can't do anything, there's no way to avoid disables there and Exhaust just ruins all carries from 1v5ing, wheres in DotA2 if you're really farmed and with a BKB you can actually 1v5 much much better. So saying this isn't League of Legends implying you can even try to 1v5 there just proves you don't know much about that game. And again this obviously is just for games where you're significantly better than the 9 other players. Oh but now an unrelated question, why do all DKs keep lvl 1 ulti until lvl 16 in all situations? I mean, I understand it generally is allright, but even in PRO games where the enemies have a heavy pushing lineup the DK still keeps the ulti at level 1 when Enigma and Prophet are pushing with mass creeps, I mean it just doesn't make any sense... wouldn't it be much simpler to just level the ulti up to level 2 to help defend from the creepwaves with the splash damage? The corruption is mostly good for pushing towers, and I don't think I've ever seen that come to effect in those games where the opponents are the ones constantly pushing all 3 lanes.
DK's attack and damage sucks until later on. You can also solo push towers keeping it at level 1. Level 2 gives nothing except ability to take on ancient stacks sooner.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:24 Shikyo wrote:
Oh but now an unrelated question, why do all DKs keep lvl 1 ulti until lvl 16 in all situations? I mean, I understand it generally is allright, but even in PRO games where the enemies have a heavy pushing lineup the DK still keeps the ulti at level 1 when Enigma and Prophet are pushing with mass creeps, I mean it just doesn't make any sense... wouldn't it be much simpler to just level the ulti up to level 2 to help defend from the creepwaves with the splash damage? The corruption is mostly good for pushing towers, and I don't think I've ever seen that come to effect in those games where the opponents are the ones constantly pushing all 3 lanes.
You skill it when you need it. Don't blindly get ult at 11, look for if you really need the AoE for something. Defensively Red Dragon doesn't really do that much for you that Breathe Fire + someone else's AoE doesn't already do to clear creep waves. You get Red to clear a big ancient stack or if you have a teamfight that's really suited to the AoE damage. Otherwise, Green has noticeably better single-target damage.
I'll note that I think Chinese DKs often end up getting Red Dragon earlier than Europeans do, for some reason (I've see Burning and Zhou popping Red Dragon at like levels 13-14, or even just taking it straight up at 11).
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On February 08 2012 23:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 22:33 TheYango wrote:On February 08 2012 17:29 cilinder007 wrote:
dk can easly 1v5 in pubs, takes coordination and burst dmg to take him down and pubs dont have that, you need items ofcourse but getting fat is not that hard in pub games and spectre takes faaar too long to farm up to be able to 1v5 In pub games you're not looking to pick a hero that can 1v5. Most of the 1v5-capable hard carries give up too much in regard to other things that you have to be able to accomplish in pubs. There are 3 marks of a good pub hero: 1) Strong in lane 2) Strong solo-killing and ganking power 3) Strong late-game damage output You need all three of these traits to take control of the game, push the tempo of the game forward, and maintain control of the game-flow all the way to the end. Dragon Knight's weakness in pubs is on the 2nd point. He's strong in lane, and has strong damage output when farmed, but he can't get solo-kills that easily. You need to use your ultimate to even have a chance to stun people in lots of solo situations, and if Breath+Stun+2-3 autoattacks doesn't kill them, you simply don't have a way to chase a kill down, even if there's nobody remotely capable of saving your target. Not just to you, but I'm mostly talking about low-level pubs where you mostly see 5 hardcarries or just some completely nonsensical stuff. Of course you can play proper roling after you get to the point where people know how to pick. Like in LoL even at 1200 elo which is pretty much really bad people always pick proper teamcombinations and you very rarely see those stupid picks. I don't think solo ganking is THAT crucial as usually if you go to a lane and ping a few times, the Earthshaker is going to understand that he indeed should stun. When they don't understand is at the really lower level, when you indeed will be well of with DK as he lanes really well, gets farmed really well, and with 200ck at 30min when highest in the enemy team is 60 is going to do exceptionally well. Again, this is mostly for winning the games you should. When you get to the MMR levels where you always have multiple people warding and counterwarding and mid knowing how to gank, you can obviously just fill in the roles, though I still don't really like supporting. In my opinion a heavy ganker/pusher like Shadow Shaman would do best there. Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 22:53 Font wrote:On February 08 2012 17:07 Hoban wrote:
Been playing Enchantress all day long (9 games under my belt so far woop woop) and now I turn to the brilliant minds of TL subforum Dota 2 for guidance and advice. First off, the goods. I have only gotten to jungle her once (I practiced in empty games beforehand) and I am generally getting ~lvl 8 and 2k gold at the 8 min mark which seems decent to low. I open clarity, tangoes, 3x mantle. I make sure to stack if it is later than X:45 but I have not been micro-awesome enough yet to stack 2 camps at once. I skill depending on the situation but it is generally W/E/E/W/E/R/E/Q/W/Q/Q/R/Q/W ect ect. I like getting 2nd level in enchantment before picking up Q because it seems to be the difference between getting that last Impetus off in a gank.
Laning. She cannot die unless I am careless when my whispies are down. I have done solo lanes against CM/Jugg, double stunners, 3 person ganked, all of it and come out alive. It is quite ridiculous how hard she is to kill. I'm not really comfortable with her mid yet but for side lanes (generally 1v2) I go E/Q/E/Q/E/R/W/W then max Q then W take R blah blah. Q allows you to harass like a bambi out of hell. With proper mana conservation, you can push someone out of lane at level 6 ez pz. I like to start regen/2 str/2 twigs and get str treads and a bracer asap. After that, it is very hard to be bursted which is really the only way to die at this stage of the game.
Item build: Treads/Bracer/Force Staff/Aghanims
so this has been my core every game (sometimes I get a basilus but I don't feel I need it that much...idk)
After this...I have no fucking idea. It generally depends on the game but sometimes I go for sheep stick, other times I grab a reaver for the hp. I want to try linkens. I feel like getting an ultimate orb after Aghanims then building linkens will be exactly what this deer-lady needs to not be brutally murdered. It is like 260hp or something, nice stats (yay attack speed) mana regen (fuck yea impetus!). Once she gets Aghanims she does crazy damage so a linkens seems like a good fit. I don't really like sheep stick at all. It gives less health and doesn't save your life as often. I am open to other ideas though. Maybe a heart but that seems a little cheesy. I could see bloodstone being a nice pick. No damage stats just HP/Mana which is amazing for those sustained fights.
But yea, any enchantress stuff I would love to hear. if you truly want to get good at enchantress... stop laning, 1 level in enchant for jungle, 1 in untouchable touch at level 4 and max out your heal(ofc get impetus) starting build should be a basilius ring, with either 2 clarity or if you are truly awesome a smoke. all this talk about pubs amuses me, this is not League of Legends, dota is a game of teamwork, you cannot win the game single handedly, saying otherwise is completely ludicrous. Also saying that pubs dont have burst damage is mind buggling because of how stupid such a statement implies. You have to get this pub idea out of your head and this 1v5 idea off this planet or to any decent dota player, you will remain a pub till the day you leave us. By the way that's kind of annoying as in especially LoL it's impossible to win 1v5 because even a brainless enemy team knows if you're 15-0 and your team fails they all just focus and dive you in battles and you can't do anything, there's no way to avoid disables there and Exhaust just ruins all carries from 1v5ing, wheres in DotA2 if you're really farmed and with a BKB you can actually 1v5 much much better. So saying this isn't League of Legends implying you can even try to 1v5 there just proves you don't know much about that game. And again this obviously is just for games where you're significantly better than the 9 other players. Oh but now an unrelated question, why do all DKs keep lvl 1 ulti until lvl 16 in all situations? I mean, I understand it generally is allright, but even in PRO games where the enemies have a heavy pushing lineup the DK still keeps the ulti at level 1 when Enigma and Prophet are pushing with mass creeps, I mean it just doesn't make any sense... wouldn't it be much simpler to just level the ulti up to level 2 to help defend from the creepwaves with the splash damage? The corruption is mostly good for pushing towers, and I don't think I've ever seen that come to effect in those games where the opponents are the ones constantly pushing all 3 lanes.
the concept of 1v5 for dota is stupid, you just cant, the problem is that you think you are 1v5 but you dont get that ur support are actually doing something in the background, you see them die and you thnik wow they suck when in fact you should at it from a different point of view aka, the damage on that support is damage you wont receive. I just dont understand how people still think they are playing 1v5 when they see their support doing stuff in the background wether is pop a mek or a force staff or a blink or a pipe.
for ur second question there is a simple answer, dk has fire breath which negates any push because he has another teamate on his team that can take the other half of the creep's hp away, he keeps the first dragon form because it destroys tower at an incredible rate.
also when you use dragon form 2, you are walking in range of auto atack which makes you vulnerable to a swap or any kind of initiation, all in all the fire breath is plenty of aoe damage to deal with any kind of push
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Perhaps completly unrelated right now but does anyone feel like some things dont have the same oomph in dota 2?the game is amazing and I like most if not all of the models and sounds(especially tidehunter) but still I find some stuff to be meh
Dagon, it looks so weird and it doesnt have a good sound I feel aswell as mjolnir/maelstrom, however I do think that this might be better because lightning all the things would be bad for spectatorship value and might clutter teamfights(see HoN for example)
Both Kunka and Omniknight, now I know they can't copy directly but there was something about Omni wearing a fucking hammer with 2 hands and slamming face aswell as Kunka with his giant sword, awesome hat and cape.
now he is just a meh captain or something.
troll batrider right now just feels like he is a rapist on a bat or something.
ow yeah and Storm spirit is no longer a panda but I said that so many times already, still I have come to terms with the mexican due to his awesome voice acting.
thats just personal preference though.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:34 Kipsate wrote:
Perhaps completly unrelated right now but does anyone feel like some things dont have the same oomph in dota 2?the game is amazing and I like most if not all of the models and sounds(especially tidehunter) but still I find some stuff to be meh
Dagon, it looks so weird and it doesnt have a good sound I feel aswell as mjolnir/maelstrom, however I do think that this might be better because lightning all the things would be bad for spectatorship value and might clutter teamfights(see HoN for example)
Both Kunka and Omniknight, now I know they can't copy directly but there was something about Omni wearing a fucking hammer with 2 hands and slamming face aswell as Kunka with his giant sword, awesome hat and cape.
now he is just a meh captain or something.
troll batrider right now just feels like he is a rapist on a bat or something.
ow yeah and Storm spirit is no longer a panda but I said that so many times already, still I have come to terms with the mexican due to his awesome voice acting.
thats just personal preference though.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again:
SHADOWFIEND...Y U NO PIMP STRIDE
Seriously though, Shadowfiend's model/animations were way cooler in DotA 1.
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On February 09 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 00:34 Kipsate wrote:
Perhaps completly unrelated right now but does anyone feel like some things dont have the same oomph in dota 2?the game is amazing and I like most if not all of the models and sounds(especially tidehunter) but still I find some stuff to be meh
Dagon, it looks so weird and it doesnt have a good sound I feel aswell as mjolnir/maelstrom, however I do think that this might be better because lightning all the things would be bad for spectatorship value and might clutter teamfights(see HoN for example)
Both Kunka and Omniknight, now I know they can't copy directly but there was something about Omni wearing a fucking hammer with 2 hands and slamming face aswell as Kunka with his giant sword, awesome hat and cape.
now he is just a meh captain or something.
troll batrider right now just feels like he is a rapist on a bat or something.
ow yeah and Storm spirit is no longer a panda but I said that so many times already, still I have come to terms with the mexican due to his awesome voice acting.
thats just personal preference though. I've said this before, and I'll say it again: SHADOWFIEND...Y U NO PIMP STRIDE Seriously though, Shadowfiend's model/animations were way cooler in DotA 1.
sf has the swagger but he walks retardedly with his arms up which valve likes on a lot of models (sf, enigma, morphling, invoker) which previously always had their arms down when walking. i put in a suggestion for this but i dont think they really bothered with it, maybe if more people just spammed it they'd do something about it. same thing with two handed weapons.
dagon and chain lightning missing the awesome crashing sound they used to have. same with neutral creeps and necro books, all or nearly silent spell effects. theres a lot of good sounds missing from the game that could add a lot, unfortunately seems like valve has priorities on other things
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On February 09 2012 00:34 Kipsate wrote:...
Dagon, it looks so weird and it doesnt have a good sound I feel aswell as mjolnir/maelstrom, however I do think that this might be better because lightning all the things would be bad for spectatorship value and might clutter teamfights(see HoN for example)...
HoN is not as cluttered in team fights as non-players seem to be believe. It's simply ignorance and prejudice: any dota-game simply takes getting used to.
In fact, HoN is currently far better spectator-wise than Dota and Dota2 are. HoN has a much better spectator interface for both the casters and the people watching. This allows the observers to get a better sense of what is going on in the game.
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