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On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy.
Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around.
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On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around.
Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8.
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On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8.
Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar.
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On August 28 2013 01:09 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8. Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar.
I don't think he was the reason they fell into it. And also 4p1 doesn't mean your 4 suck while 1 farms, its a twisted misconception. Normal 4p1 means that 4 rapes while 1 farms, and Sylar has nothing to do with them sucking all lanes. If anything, he was the one saving their sorry asses, after they completely failed laning every game.
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On August 28 2013 01:09 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8. Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar.
that is grossly inaccurate. their style was rather unique in that they didn't put too much effort into their early game and rather won by not losing. they played the defend until your opponent commits a major mistake game perfected like no other team in the world. the problem is that the really good teams don't commit those mistakes anymore and can now actually use their early advantages to win over LGD whereas a couple months ago no one was able to.
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On August 28 2013 01:47 treeqt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:09 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8. Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar. that is grossly inaccurate. their style was rather unique in that they didn't put too much effort into their early game and rather won by not losing. they played the defend until your opponent commits a major mistake game perfected like no other team in the world. the problem is that the really good teams don't commit those mistakes anymore and can now actually use their early advantages to win over LGD whereas a couple months ago no one was able to.
They picked lineups for teamfighting late game, with 1 core. How is that not 4p1? 4p1 can have different faces. It can be passive (in that the 4 defend, the 1 finds farm, then they midgame 5 man doto). It can be active, in that the 4 keep engaging the enemy, trying their best to clash in such a way that it doesn't become a 4v5, or it can be purely 4v5 that creates space for the 1.
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On August 28 2013 01:25 renfree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:09 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8. Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar. I don't think he was the reason they fell into it. And also 4p1 doesn't mean your 4 suck while 1 farms, its a twisted misconception. Normal 4p1 means that 4 rapes while 1 farms, and Sylar has nothing to do with them sucking all lanes. If anything, he was the one saving their sorry asses, after they completely failed laning every game.
Seriously, this. For example, Na'vi vs. LGD Game 2 in the group stage was 100% a 4p1 strat. Everyone but XBOCT was running around killing people top while XBOCT just freefarmed on the other side of the map because LGD had to devote their entire team to stand a chance against Na'vi's 4.
I'm too lazy to look up drafts and replays but I'm pretty sure that Na'vi's Pudge drafts are always actually 4p1.
Edit: Also, @Caladbolg: you said "the usual 4p1" implying that's how 4p1 is usually played, which I think is the source of the disagreement.
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On August 28 2013 01:50 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:47 treeqt wrote:On August 28 2013 01:09 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8. Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar. that is grossly inaccurate. their style was rather unique in that they didn't put too much effort into their early game and rather won by not losing. they played the defend until your opponent commits a major mistake game perfected like no other team in the world. the problem is that the really good teams don't commit those mistakes anymore and can now actually use their early advantages to win over LGD whereas a couple months ago no one was able to. They picked lineups for teamfighting late game, with 1 core. How is that not 4p1? 4p1 can have different faces. It can be passive (in that the 4 defend, the 1 finds farm, then they midgame 5 man doto). It can be active, in that the 4 keep engaging the enemy, trying their best to clash in such a way that it doesn't become a 4v5, or it can be purely 4v5 that creates space for the 1.
The 4 are supposed to be fighting mid and in rare cases early game.
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Just watch most of NaVi games when they clearly run 1 core compared to how the Chinese do it. It is different.
LGD and DK strats evolve around their carry, Sylar and Burning. NaVi doesn't. NaVi has never evolved around Hvost, Hvost came when Puppey called for him to come, otherwise he free farms. Hvost is an excellent laner and farmer, something that constantly gets over looked, something Tobi always points out.
LGD and DK 4p1 is very clearly 4p1. NaVi is aggression, and if allowed they will 4v5, if they know they need Hvost, he will come. That is the difference. They don't give up laning stage, LGD and DK seems to not care.
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lgd.cn is one of the strongest defensive teams in the world.
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Sanya12364 Posts
defensive 4p1 is generally 4 defending the high ground while 1 farms or 4 defending the farmer. 5 man pushing end-game.
ganking 4p1 is 4 gankers and 1 farmer, and 5-man gank/push in the end game.
pushing 4p1 is midgame 5 man push with the 1 taking point position on the push.
4p1 looks very different depending on the mid-game strategy but has the carry as the focal point.
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On August 28 2013 04:33 Kuroeeah wrote:
lgd.cn is one of the strongest defensive teams in the world.
There is no team better at playing the defensive style than LGD.cn. Its just not an optimal strategy in the current meta.
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Not to be that guy but shouldn't we get back to talking about drama and making up roster changes that are TOTALLY happening?
New Liquid roster:
Kaipi - Support (So they can talk the whole time)
EG - Carry (Only plays Tiny. For the throws...)
Dignitas - Offlane (Only farms the whole game)
Complexity - Support (buys only smoke)
Quantic - Mid (draws funny shapes on the map the whole game)
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On August 28 2013 05:02 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Not to be that guy but shouldn't we get back to talking about drama and making up roster changes that are TOTALLY happening?
New Liquid roster:
Kaipi - Support (So they can talk the whole time)
EG - Carry (Only plays Tiny. For the throws...)
Dignitas - Offlane (Only farms the whole game)
Complexity - Support (buys only smoke)
Quantic - Mid (draws funny shapes on the map the whole game)
Wat?
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On August 28 2013 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 05:02 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Not to be that guy but shouldn't we get back to talking about drama and making up roster changes that are TOTALLY happening?
New Liquid roster:
Kaipi - Support (So they can talk the whole time)
EG - Carry (Only plays Tiny. For the throws...)
Dignitas - Offlane (Only farms the whole game)
Complexity - Support (buys only smoke)
Quantic - Mid (draws funny shapes on the map the whole game)
Wat?
Its a lame joke of Liquid's new roster being made up of "USA" teams based on what they are "know" for.
""
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Hows Quantic a USA team? 3 frenchmen and 2 CIS players lol.
Also probably disbanded >_>
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On August 28 2013 01:09 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:24 renfree wrote:On August 28 2013 00:12 Caladbolg wrote:On August 28 2013 00:04 fluidin wrote:On August 27 2013 18:07 Lodasrecedinhairline wrote:
Nothing against Iceiceice but I don't think he's at the same level as Mushi(aka every team wants him) just yet. However he seems to think he is judging from his attitude when he talked about the Chinese teams and their recruitment/shuffling. If Orange really approached him and he turned them down, I really don't see him in any top dota teams anytime soon. He's too arrogant and picky as a free agent. zenith had at least as much potential as orange, so i can see why ice3 doesn't want to join an orange without mushi. why join a team that is definitely a step down from his previous team now that mushi is absent? if mushi were still around, i could definitely see iceiceice joining orange though, whether to replace ohy or kyxy. Iceiceice to LGD! Would break them out of that conservative playstyle they had when Sylar was around. Like it was Sylar, who made them pick trash lanes and not xiao8. Of course I wasn't blaming Sylar, but with him they fell into the usual 4 protect 1 playstyle simply because he was Sylar.
LGD with xiao8 mid = midgame rapemachine.
LGD wit yao mid = slowly die playing Mahjong while Sylar tries to rescue what he can.
...it just so happens that they decided to make people like Yango and me sad and pick Magnus 24/7 which resulted in Yao mid. :<
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On August 28 2013 05:09 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hows Quantic a USA team? 3 frenchmen and 2 CIS players lol.
Also probably disbanded >_>
Go back in history, quantic used to be an NA team with korok universe 1437 brax and paintitgold
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On August 28 2013 05:02 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Not to be that guy but shouldn't we get back to talking about drama and making up roster changes that are TOTALLY happening?
New Liquid roster:
Kaipi - Support (So they can talk the whole time)
EG - Carry (Only plays Tiny. For the throws...)
Dignitas - Offlane (Only farms the whole game)
Complexity - Support (buys only smoke)
Quantic - Mid (draws funny shapes on the map the whole game)
What does this even mean
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Team ACER is going to recruit a dota team, IMO should be added to the board on the front page because these guys just signed innovation and they are willing to sponsor pretty heavily
TEAM ACER roster:
none yet
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EPT
