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First thought: Were they high on something when they decided those Roshan changes?
Second thought: Pretty much this -
On October 18 2013 17:38 Velr wrote:People talking about Bloodseeker in Pubs seem to forget one thing: - Riki is no longer revealed out of Permanent Invisibility when he casts spells or uses items Dagon-Riki just got legit (  )
In addition I really like the rescaling on Meepo. The frustrating part I found with Meepo was the difficulty of getting a second Meepo. Once you have two you can really get started but until then you're extremely vulnerable.
That's a hell of a nerf to jungling.
And finally...bottle change should largely kill the absurd obsession in pubs with bottle-first (random aside). For which I am thankful.
Edit:
On October 18 2013 15:31 hacklebeast wrote:I used to think that, but if you make it disassembleable, you are really only buffing timber saw.
Vanguard is bad on ranged heroes. 20 damage block isn't enough, especially considering that you probably didn't start with the stout shield, so you are paying for it at the X min mark.
So what melee heroes want items made from vit+ring? They would be melee heroes that want bloodstone (just timbersaw) and heroes that want a combination of heart/atos and pipe/linkens/bfury/refresher (hood and pipe are rolled into one). No melee wants atos. The heroes that can use refresher + heart (tide, ds, and mag i guess?) all want a blink dagger first, not be making a vanguard in preparations for items they will have at the 50 min mark if they are lucky (except dark seer, who just has better stuff to get anyway). And any hero that is going for bfury just wants to rush the bfury, not make a vanguard first.
So that leaves heart+pipe or linkens. Who wants that? DK? Doom? There may be some extreme cases where melee carries can want to super tank in the late game, but they are such a small percentage compared to tsaw who goes bloodstone every game. And there are some exceptions to the logic above, like vanguard sometimes not being the worst thing ever on viper/razer/od, or an AM who is willing to delay a bfury by 1100 gold to have vanguard first. But again, they are all such nitch cases compared to tsaw.
So those are my thoughts on it. Vanguard isn't disasebleable because tsaw doesn't need to be harder to kill
edit: now that i think about it, ax would fall under that category because he legitimately wants vanguard and heart. i guess pipe/hood wouldn't be bad on him
I think you're overlooking the fact that builds are likely to change. And massively overestimating the need to get naked Battlefury (as opposed to after some other small stuff to keep you in lane).
Any Battlefury-capable carry will likely have stout and get RoH first for sustaining their farm. If they're taking a lot of harrass in lane then a casual early booster is sometimes extremely desirable to increase survivability. Being able to freely do that, get a vanguard out of it and then later disassemble that vanguard into your actual items is huge. Vanguard also provides early fighting capability, so something like an Antimage wouldn't be totally helpless until Battlefury + 2 items or thereabouts.
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On October 18 2013 18:45 -Celestial- wrote:
And finally...bottle change should largely kill the absurd obsession in pubs with bottle-first (random aside). For which I am thankful.
It won't, because starting gold has been increased as well. You can still buy bottle at game start.
If anything, people will probably start bottle first more because they cbf'd waiting for the walking courier to deliver it.
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Thunderhammer reigns supreme, lightning so good now daym
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On October 18 2013 18:54 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 18:45 -Celestial- wrote:
And finally...bottle change should largely kill the absurd obsession in pubs with bottle-first (random aside). For which I am thankful. It won't, because starting gold has been increased as well. You can still buy bottle at game start. If anything, people will probably start bottle first more because they cbf'd waiting for the walking courier to deliver it.
Starting gold is 625, bottle is 650
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Flying Courier
- Cannot be purchased until 3 minutes after creeps spawn
Did icefrog really think this shit over? Anything delivered mid in the first 3 minutes is a free courier kill for a prophet or any support camping behind the lane.
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Spectre
- You can now continuously use Reality on your illusions
Hahahaha this, this right here will make spectre a mobility king. Even in big teamfights, a well placed spectre ulti will mean you can go from fighting supporters in the back, to going straight to the other carry. Unless illusions are destroyed of course, but this makes for lulzys. Or just going to bottom of map, just to head straight to top :D:D:D
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On October 18 2013 07:21 BallinWitStalin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 07:17 Pegas wrote:
To quote someone :
For the idiots who are crying now, you wanted change, you got it:
Stale trilane meta is destroyed(You want stale metas, head to LoL)
Regen Pooling and Bottle-Crowing nerfed(into the ground, now rune-control actually counts for something)
A whole new take on Roshan control. Now it won't matter as much which side you're on. You want the Aegis, vision is crucial.
Major nerfs to ratdoto: buyback nerfs, Shadowblade nerf, even the jungle nerf. NP is now "viable" instead of OP.
Many of you seem to have forgotten or never actually saw the changes that made Dota what it is today. 1 skill, 20sec BKB Naix, Frenzy Viper/Razor, Carry Treant, they all came and went. This is Icefrog's way of balance. Welcome to Dota scrubs. I concur
Stronk post is stronk.
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On October 18 2013 18:55 Porkz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 18:54 Belisarius wrote:On October 18 2013 18:45 -Celestial- wrote:
And finally...bottle change should largely kill the absurd obsession in pubs with bottle-first (random aside). For which I am thankful. It won't, because starting gold has been increased as well. You can still buy bottle at game start. If anything, people will probably start bottle first more because they cbf'd waiting for the walking courier to deliver it. Starting gold is 625, bottle is 650
True, I am stupid.
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On October 18 2013 18:55 Porkz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 18:54 Belisarius wrote:On October 18 2013 18:45 -Celestial- wrote:
And finally...bottle change should largely kill the absurd obsession in pubs with bottle-first (random aside). For which I am thankful. It won't, because starting gold has been increased as well. You can still buy bottle at game start. If anything, people will probably start bottle first more because they cbf'd waiting for the walking courier to deliver it. Starting gold is 625, bottle is 650
Exactly. So unless you're willing to stand in the fountain and wait for passive gold after the first creepwave...no bottle.
Though I regret saying that now for fear of giving people ideas.
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I can't help but feel that these gameplay mechanics changes (such as Roshan random respawn between 8 - 11 minutes WTF) should have been taken into consideration a LONG time ago.
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4713 Posts
A lot of these changes make sense. They don't quite like a couple of things regarding the current meta and a lot of the changes are made aimed at changing that, a lot of other changes of course are aimed at making some heroes more viable and a couple of others less dominant, which is always good.
I am strongly looking forward to more Axe in competitive play!
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On October 18 2013 19:01 NeThZOR wrote:
I can't help but feel that these gameplay mechanics changes (such as Roshan random respawn between 8 - 11 minutes WTF) should have been taken into consideration a LONG time ago.
I'm kind of on the fence about that specific change. This game has enough randomness to it (runes and rng skills first things that come to mind), no need to deliberately add more.
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I hated trilanes anyway, bring on the 2-1-2.
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On October 18 2013 18:57 Daozzt wrote:
Flying Courier
- Cannot be purchased until 3 minutes after creeps spawn
Did icefrog really think this shit over? Anything delivered mid in the first 3 minutes is a free courier kill for a prophet or any support camping behind the lane.
Thats the point.
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On October 18 2013 18:33 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 18:01 Elgar wrote:On October 18 2013 17:26 Pr0wler wrote:
The Roshan change is mind boggling... How can we keep the timing on roshan now ? Where the precise planing and strategizing went ? Just imagine... Your team wins a team fight and its about time for roshan, kinda. He can spawn now, or after 3 minutes when everyone is back.
They made offlane so much easier. Ahhh and the Darius... Oh sorry, the Axe. Actually I didn't even bother to read the rest.
Still no ranking system, still no ladder. Isn't that the point? With the current system and how it is, everyone had the timing down perfectly. You know when he's going to respawn and everyone just crowds around, afraid to take a fight because they don't want to wipe with Roshan coming up soon. This became a stalemate for 2 minutes, with people just sitting there waiting for the other team to make a move. The new Roshan respawn adds some degree of randomness to it. There is a 3 minute window that he can respawn and that is a lot of time. By not knowing when he's going to appear exactly, you can't just sit around and do nothing anymore. If you want to sit there and wait for him to come back, you sacrifice potentially 3 minutes that you can be farming/pushing, as well as 3 minutes that the other team could be pushing on your tower/base. Do you really have the time to spare waiting around while the other team is out and destroying your base? When do you risk taking a team fight? Do I have a big enough lead or am I down significantly enough that it's worth sitting around for potentially 3 minutes doing nothing? It's a gamble on both sides with the consequences being significant at both extremes. Randomness and gamble. Exactly what you need in a competitive eSport game... How do you even make a call on that Roshan ? "It may or may not spawn in the next 30 secs so push X lane."? How ridiculous is that ?
More like there is more risk to farming. Its not like Dota doesn't have random elements right now(CK, random gold, CM's ult). It is meant to limit the sections of the game where everyone plays passive until the next Roshan.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On October 18 2013 19:27 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 18:57 Daozzt wrote:
Flying Courier
- Cannot be purchased until 3 minutes after creeps spawn
Did icefrog really think this shit over? Anything delivered mid in the first 3 minutes is a free courier kill for a prophet or any support camping behind the lane. Thats the point.
Animal Courier
- Movement speed increased from 300 to 350
- HP increased from 45 to 75
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Holy shit, this patch is insane. Time to watch the lumi+fluff analysis on vod.
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To be honest...the Roshan change now I think about it...
Just get HoD on one of your heroes, then dump a creep in there to watch for spawn? *shrug*
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On October 18 2013 19:31 739 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 19:27 TMG26 wrote:On October 18 2013 18:57 Daozzt wrote:
Flying Courier
- Cannot be purchased until 3 minutes after creeps spawn
Did icefrog really think this shit over? Anything delivered mid in the first 3 minutes is a free courier kill for a prophet or any support camping behind the lane. Thats the point. Animal Courier - Movement speed increased from 300 to 350 - HP increased from 45 to 75
they just want the walking courier costmetics to be shown off more
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Well... To be honest.. The walking courier was becoming kinda useless?
In progames it's basically not seen at all.
In pubs it's mostly a sign that your supports have trouble pulling and don't have any money to spare as it is (or are retards... Or the midplayer can't fathom buying it himself because.. retard...).
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EPT
