Our Power Rank is back, and at an exciting time at that! With so many leagues and tournaments going on, it can sometimes be difficult to say who is at the very top of the Dota scene, and yet, in this month's Power Rank, we've made the tough calls.
This will be a controversial PR, and we not only welcome your comments, criticisms and qq, but encourage it! Arguing over the Power Rank is a hallowed Team Liquid tradition, and we're all for everyone coming up with their own ranks and breaking down the lists of others.
Without further ado then, here's the TL Dota 2 April 2014 Power Rank!
China/SEA Power Rank
1.
The Beast from the East, DK is without a doubt the strongest team in Asia and possibly the world. Their strength lies not just in the assortment of superstars in a single lineup, but in the fact that the team believes in its own strength and trusts in each other to a degree that one would not generally associate with a chorus of huge names and giant egos. This has led to the team having some of the best farm-allocation of any pro-team, as well as fantastic coordination in teamfights.
Taking home the Sina Cup, DK has a record of 17-8 in 6.80 against the best of China. While the team dominates as hard as any other when things are going smoothly, it’s the way the machine plays from behind that makes them the undisputed early favorite on the road to TI4.
2.
On paper, the current iG roster is just as strong as that of DK; Luo, YYF, and 430 are all at the top of their game in their respective roles. However, the team hasn't quite pieced everything together, and they have yet to showcase the level of fluidity and flexibility that DK has. The team tends to be very tempo based as they like to play an aggressive midgame with their mid and support heroes engaging in frequent skirmishes.
Their 24-10 record in 6.80 is a little inflated by their Netolic cup results (which DK did not participate in) but still showcases a team that's hot on the heels of DK. Their style looks very sharp and deadly when successfully executed, but lies on an edge in which slightly inferior farm allocation and lack of full commitment in the midgame puts the supports far behind, making comebacks hard to achieve should they lose the early game.
3.
Between iG/DK and VG/Newbee there exists a small yet crucial gap in individual skill. As a whole VG has fallen off quite a bit since their victories last winter. Their flamboyant, overly aggressive style has been reined in both by 6.80 and other teams adapting to the new flow of the game. The team is still a constant threat to the other top teams, but their style of Dota suffers from its inherent risky nature that does not lend well to best-of-5 series.
17-13 is a middling record that is really better than it looks, with a close 3-2 loss to DK in the Sina cup finals. Right now we have a team that is on the cusp of greatness, but without any clear idea as to how to take the next step.
4.
There was a great deal of hype for the new ‘Dream Team’ when they were first announced. Unfortunately, most of it died down when they acquired the solid but uninspiring veterans KingJ and Banana, and whatever was left after that disappeared with the team's debut fiasco in Sina Cup as they bombed out against amateur teams.
Since then, the team has come quite some way, and the issue of conflicting positions has mostly been solved despite some remaining unease. After dismantling LGD in WPC, NewBee has taken a solid step up the ladder of Chinese Dota, but their lopsided record against DK and iG doesn't bode well for the team's future unless they make another breakthrough.
5.
LGD has fallen far since their D2L win in the middle of winter. The departure of iconic captain Xiao8 has put the team and brand in a do or die position, and the direct TI4 invite that was once taken for granted is quickly fading in the horizon. Icy is a solid player, but he provides neither the soul nor face that the team desperately needs.
Crowned by a pair of crushing defeats from iG and NewBee in recent days, 14-13 is simply not a good record. LGD is slowly becoming the gatekeeper that still beats amateur teams handily but is utterly impotent against the other members of the big 5.
Individual Ranks
kupon3ss
Tephus
k-poptosis
EU/NA Power Rank
While the Eastern PR had our staff smiling and shaking hands with each other, our Western counterpart was a bloody and merciless battle. We look forward to having you all join us in the pitchforking of each other’s incorrect opinions.
1.
We’re not gonna lie - we really argued this one out. In the end, however, Na`Vi retains their top spot via various flashes of brilliance as well as a solid win over Alliance in their last encounter. Admittedly, the team's play has recently oscillated between their typical brilliance and some utterly horrendous showings. However, with the entire Western scene in a state of complete chaos, Na`Vi seems like the only team unfazed by all the changes to retain their own style of Dota.
Even with their schedule slightly disrupted last month by Dendi's trip to the States for the Free-To-Play premier and a general break for the team, Na`Vi retains much of the magic they've always had. Sitting in the finals of the XMG CD Invitational with relatively blank slates in both Starladder and Dreamleague, Na`Vi is likely to return in force as they refocus. While 23-18 isn't a great record for a team that we’re claiming to be #1, it is interesting to note that half of those losses came from the MLG TKO league, an event that the team has approached with what appeared to be complete abandon.
2.
Several of us actually felt Empire deserved the first place position, and if online results over the last month was the only thing we evaluated by, Empire would be hands-down the best team in the world. However, in a scene notorious for instability, it feels impossible to give Empire a well-deserved first place without first seeing them in action on LAN. The core style of the team often relies on a gank-based 4-1 that comes alive in the midgame to crush their opponents with overwhelming force. This kind of momentum-based play is indeed absurdly strong when working as intended, but as their series vs C9 showed in the D2CL semifinals, it doesn't work the best when put on the back foot.
With a monstrous 60-17 record in 6.80, Empire is expected to sail smoothly into the LAN finals of both Dreamleague and Starladder. Those will be the events that tell us whether the current Empire is a force to be reckoned with on the road to TI4, or whether they are merely a clone of the Empire of yesteryear.
3.
EG's true skill level is very much obscured by their inconsistency and infrequent contact with the top European teams. They have a style that tends to rely on dual cores, and many EG games end up coming down to whether or not A-God wins his lanes (which he admittedly does more often than not) as the team reliably moves into a comfortable midgame with a pair of very farmed carries decimating the opposition. These setups rely very much on the early game momentum and the ability to deflect pressure on the midlane, two factors for which there's no guarantee the team will always be able to maintain.
Truth be told, being able to destroy the NA opposition with a 61 - 13 record doesn't really mean all that much for a team seeking to compete at a global level, but it does showcase what they are capable of. The evaluation has since become even murkier with Fear's injury-related absence. With the team’s top potential shrouded until LAN, we can at least watch the best (real) NA team perform at the top level, even without old-man-Fear watching their backs.
4.
Yes, our reigning world champions are not at their best, and yes, they did lose their D2CL Semi Finals match to Na`Vi. However, they only did so in a hard fought bo5 that went to a fifth game.
One of the main criticisms of Alliance is that they haven’t adapted well to 6.80, and while they certainly have needed time to adapt during the 2013 - 2014 season, they still are one of the highest individual skill teams. It is also important to consider that a new patch is likely on the cards before TI4, making their diminished performance on 6.80 slightly less concerning. As defending champions, they are guaranteed an invite to TI4, and what will be crucial is how they do on 6.81.
5.
Still the epitome of greed and the sworn enemy of BKBs, C9 is an interesting team, and the fact that they are both capable of defeating Empire and losing to TL in equally decisive fashion makes them exceedingly difficult to rank. With a 50-30 record, C9 is probably the most unpredictable team in the world, with no real pattern to their results. It seems like teams that grapple with C9 regularly, most notably EG, seem to have the team's number, while unprepared teams are often swept away by EEkami's wrath. A set of eclectic characters with a large fanbase, C9 certainly makes heads turn.
Has EG really played that many games, or are you including games played under the previous banner?
Either way, I think its way too early to give EG such a high ranking. Every team that breaks into the scene literally has the same trajectory (like sigma, fnatic circa late 2011, early Kaipi), where they win hell of a lot of games before teams figure them out and then they go into a losing streak before stabilizing.
Empire have fallen off lately so I think it's only fair that they get 2nd spot. All in all awesome power rank I think! All teams in Europe showing inconsistency but signs of absolutely brilliant play, but I still feel that once TI4 comes around Alliance and Na'vi will dominate, and have a real shot at beating DK.
My biggest hope for TI4 is a Na'vi vs DK finals. Doesn't matter who wins and I'm happy with that finals! :D
On April 08 2014 01:30 Piledriver wrote: Has EG really played that many games, or are you including games played under the previous banner?
Either way, I think its way too early to give EG such a high ranking. Every team that breaks into the scene literally has the same trajectory (like sigma, fnatic circa late 2011, early Kaipi), where they win hell of a lot of games before teams figure them out and then they go into a losing streak before stabilizing.
Yes, it includes the 22-0 of Sadboys against mostly medicore NA competition
since EG is based on USW now, they rarely play against top European teams, which is one of the reasons for its lopsided winrate.
On April 08 2014 01:40 Kupon3ss wrote: Yes, it includes the 22-0 of Sadboys against mostly medicore NA competitionEmpire at the height of their untouchable streak online
On April 08 2014 01:30 Piledriver wrote: Has EG really played that many games, or are you including games played under the previous banner?
Either way, I think its way too early to give EG such a high ranking. Every team that breaks into the scene literally has the same trajectory (like sigma, fnatic circa late 2011, early Kaipi), where they win hell of a lot of games before teams figure them out and then they go into a losing streak before stabilizing.
Yes, it includes the 22-0 of Sadboys against mostly medicore NA competition
since EG is based on USW now, they rarely play against top European teams, which is one of the reasons for its lopsided winrate.
Lol I think it's far past time to give Evil Geniuses this ranking. Also, Evil Geniuses is (at least) 5-0 against Empire in recent games, I believe (three of which were played as SADBOYS). Still, no reason to give them a top spot until they play Na'Vi this week in the D2L.
I'm at least semi-surprised that titan didn't get the nod over LGD from at least one person in the east considering their run in WPC or w/e but I guess they did lose to all the good teams except iG with a standin. Describing their loss to DK as "losing to SPG.cn with 2 standins" while hilarious is also dumb since, well, B-god.
dont agree with western 3-5, EG should be 5th and the others move up a spot - EG's played ALOT against other NA teams (we all know NA is a weaker scene) and we dont know if they can stay on top of their game. Alot of teams that were recently recruited/formed start good and fall off soon after. Think #3 is too high for now.
On April 08 2014 01:51 Koerage wrote: dont agree with western 3-5, EG should be 5th and the others move up a spot - EG's played ALOT against other NA teams (we all know NA is a weaker scene) and we dont know if they can stay on top of their game. Alot of teams that were recently recruited/formed start good and fall off soon after. Think #3 is too high for now.
Amusingly, C9 have won convincingly over most top EU teams while they are losing to the NA scene. Also EG's few games vs EU have been pretty solid.
On April 08 2014 01:51 Koerage wrote: dont agree with western 3-5, EG should be 5th and the others move up a spot - EG's played ALOT against other NA teams (we all know NA is a weaker scene) and we dont know if they can stay on top of their game. Alot of teams that were recently recruited/formed start good and fall off soon after. Think #3 is too high for now.
Amusingly, C9 have won convincingly over most top EU teams while they are losing to the NA scene. Also EG's few games vs EU have been pretty solid.
Yeah, c9 is to much of a wild card to be higher than 5. The post says it all with beating empire and getting crushed by liquid.
I love how the Chinese ranking is unanimous but the EU/NA is very decidedly not.
EG #3? Nah... They're doing much better I'll grant you that but given their competition I think it's way too generous to give them the #3 spot ahead of Alliance no less.
Other than the Netolic West Final #5 vs RoX.KiS (where they went 2-2 but lost 3-2 because of WB) and they beat them the day before in Dreamleague, just curious, when is the last time EG lost a bo3?
Not sure where you put Empire, but EG should def be higher than them. 5-0 vs them and almost every game was a stomp.
On April 08 2014 02:09 Horo wrote: Definitely think that fnatic is being left out. They're still a strong team, and I find it odd that the power ranks only go to 5...
They win big, they lose big. They aren't as good now as they were in December. Trixi doesn't have its mojo back. It's sad that it happens at a time when there is a lot of online Bo1 games but believe me when I say that top EU teams don't want to play Fnatic because they have no idea if they are going to face Dr. Jekill or Mr. Hyde.
On April 08 2014 02:13 EkiMGnaW wrote: I love how the Chinese ranking is unanimous but the EU/NA is very decidedly not.
EG #3? Nah... They're doing much better I'll grant you that but given their competition I think it's way too generous to give them the #3 spot ahead of Alliance no less.
Many of the already established teams are still adjusting to the current changes to the meta. Some teams are getting a little tilted (C9, Alliance, Fnatic, etc), but in time they should be able to stabilize.
On April 08 2014 02:13 Sn0_Man wrote: @Ekmignas;dkljasdf Alliance aint making it to Kiev, while a certain NA team that ur flaming is
Oh, I wasn't flaming EG. I'm sorry if it came across that way. It wasn't my intention.
All I'm saying is I don't think it's fair to compare EG to the other European teams when EG has played arguably weaker competition. Also, making it into a tournament/finals is only a fair comparison if all teams in said tournament/finals played the same teams to get there.
Don't get me wrong, I think EG has come a long way in a very short time and it's great that they're there (i.e. Starladder Finals). The finals will be the first big test for EG and Mvp Pheonix and it'll be interesting to see how they stack up to the monsters of Europe and China.
MVP Phoenix aka "loses to purgegamers all the time" lmfao these guys have less of a chance than MUFC at TI3. If they have so much as a gold OR XP lead for more than 5 minutes in any match I'll call that a win for them.
EG on the other hand have actually played and dumpstered top EU teams.
tbf all EG has been playing is random bo1s against EU teams and pummeling TL/C9 on the regular
we need to see them at a LAN against more teams or at least play vs Alliance or Na'vi online, but I don't even know if you can conclude anything about the latter if most of the team is USW based playing on EUW
On April 08 2014 02:13 Sn0_Man wrote: @Ekmignas;dkljasdf Alliance aint making it to Kiev, while a certain NA team that ur flaming is
Oh, I wasn't flaming EG. I'm sorry if it came across that way. It wasn't my intention.
All I'm saying is I don't think it's fair to compare EG to the other European teams when EG has played arguably weaker competition. Also, making it into a tournament/finals is only a fair comparison if all teams in said tournament/finals played the same teams to get there.
Don't get me wrong, I think EG has come a long way in a very short time and it's great that they're there (i.e. Starladder Finals). The finals will be the first big test for EG and Mvp Pheonix and it'll be interesting to see how they stack up to the monsters of Europe and China.
Pretty sure the only European teams EG hasn't played recently is Na'Vi and Alliance.
Which, granted, are two of the measuring sticks. But having a winning record against everyone else should be good enough for a comparison.
Ranking EU/US at the moment has to be the hardest thing in the DOTA world. Looking at their performances after the short f2p break I couldn't put navi on 1 but empire had their fair share of problems aswell.
Well done and thanks for writing a power rank once again.
rating empire that highly is stupid. they had a good streak and have noticably fallen off since then dropping important games all over the place. rating empire higher than alliance eg or cloud 9 is complete nonsense
On April 08 2014 04:04 dunkster wrote: rating empire that highly is stupid. they had a good streak and have noticably fallen off since then dropping important games all over the place. rating empire higher than alliance eg or cloud 9 is complete nonsense
Knowing how to buy a BKB gets you a lot of points, which is likely why they are above C9. BKB, plus a good streak and not losing to liquid.
On April 08 2014 03:45 scoobex wrote: I think Titan has been better than LGD lately.
Titan's recent surge is after the cut off period for this power rank as indicated by the article stating the results of the XMG Dotacinema Captain's Draft finals wasn't counted for or against Na'vi which I wish it did.
Also I'm not following SEA closely but looking at recent standings a team I've never heard of, Arrow, has been crushing that scene like EG crushes North America. They even faced off against Titan twice and won their most recent series which would align with this power rank period.
On April 08 2014 01:51 Koerage wrote: dont agree with western 3-5, EG should be 5th and the others move up a spot - EG's played ALOT against other NA teams (we all know NA is a weaker scene) and we dont know if they can stay on top of their game. Alot of teams that were recently recruited/formed start good and fall off soon after. Think #3 is too high for now.
how the hell could you put C9 over EG? They just continue to smash them head to head and they do just as well, if not better against other teams...
I don't understand, Empire has 1 1 2 2, Navi has 1 1 2 3 a,d Navi is first, Empire second. Didn't had the courage to rank Empire as your writers ranked it ? :p
TBH, every time I think about power ranks I just can't stop thinking about 6.78 DK, the most perfect, dominating dota performances I've ever witnessed.
Seems like Na'vi is first just cause they are fan favorites, cause there isn't any other criteria which shows that Na'vi is currently best team in the west. They played less games then other 4 in last 3 months (maybe Alliance played less, but i feel Alliance right now deserves 5th place in rankings), also lost pretty much all games to Empire and they are even at best with C9. Yes, you can say they aren't in full form, they haven't been practicing, they are fucking around and blablabla, but same could be said for C9 too (i highly doubt that EE is that much of a feeder, they are just experimenting with their potentials and with different heroes, as every team should do right now, TI is like 3 months from now...)
Also, everybody is talking how Empire is hottest team right now, they have like sick streak and what not, on the other hand, EG is also good, but not good enough for first two places, cause they played 2nd tier NA teams and whatnot... How is EG worse than Empire, when 70%+ Empire's wins are from 2nd tier Europe teams, or from top tier CIS teams, which aren't all the greatest teams right now, i feel like only three good teams from CIS region right now are Empire, Na'vi and ROX
My point is, this rankings should have waited SL finals, publishing this thread this early is kinda rushed and disappointing. Feels like you published this just for clicks and drama, tho i highly doubt this is true knowing TL is not that kind of organization...
The 4 individual ranks clearly put Empire as #1 so why have you got N'avi there? Empire is number 1 in the rankings please correct this unless there are more than the 4 explicitly stated people voting? If not you have made an error.
Empire should still be number 1. Both head to head and win rate favor them quite a bit over Na'vi. EG shouldn't be included because they're not really part of the eu scene whereas c9 is. Too difficult to compare cross-region. I mean, talk about inflated stats.
On April 08 2014 07:25 FuzzyJAM wrote: Pretty confident Na'vi would not have been ranked first if their team name was anything else.
Yep, but yet it is the fact that they are Na'Vi that tells you their record does not. When they turn it on, they are like no other team.
But I thought power ranks were supposed to be about who is performing the best at the moment, not who is the most skilled or has the best record over the past three years or whatever.
Seems about right. I would have liked to see rankings for NA done separately from EU, and a Korean scene rank included. Maybe separate China and SEA to boot, but either way, I'd have just liked to see some more depth than just east/west.
It's pretty funny to see so many people doubt Na'Vi after they lost some online games. Anyone who has followed the scene for at least half a year should know that Na'Vi are much stronger on LAN and that they also up their play substantially in playoffs.
To be honest, I find EU/NA Power Rank to be very silly. Not because I disagree with teams placement, but because there were no conditions to see what several teams are really capable of. We didn't have major LANs since Starladder 8 finals in January and any rating based on online play is bound to be extremely inaccurate. Teams like Na'Vi and Fnatic are known to play better at LAN, large part of EG's games were played against teams in Europe and cross-server results are very dependent on which team gets more games at its "home" server.
At least we will have Starladder 9 finals pretty soon and they should show us something much closer to the real picture. It would've been even better if all good european teams could take part in them, but oh well, you can't have everything I guess.
I have no problem with east rankings. West rankings I would have: 1. EG 2. Navi 3. Cloud 9 4. Empire 5. Alliance
Right now I don't think Navi Cloud 9 Empire can even touch DK, but I think EG can. I understand that Empire had a long winning streak. But you got to win in the playoffs, not regular season, they didn't win any major championship during that span. Getting knocked out of D2CL doesn't help. I am not convinced of Empire unless they finish top 4 at Star Ladder at the very least, but highly unlikely. EG is a new team, but they playing like they played together for 3 years. And the way they finish their games, is mostly one sided. I have Navi and Cloud 9 2nd and 3rd the 2 finalist for D2CL. Alliance a little like iG last year. Good but not the best pre TI 3.
On April 08 2014 04:37 andyrau wrote: my point was it's a power ranking so it's an overall performance indication
hence it's not unimaginable to put c9 over eg like his phrasing suggests
Except for the part where EG beat them and they lost to liquid. Greed is not always good, no matter what Wall Street says.
uh then they stomped the shit out of tl in d2l
again, point is it's not completely inconceivable for someone to put them over eg in a ranking, especially if you consider that he ranks c9 below simply off a head to head winrate. eg hasn't even played na'vi or alliance, whereas c9 has beat both teams, albeit in a small online sample size. not saying that eg is necessarily a worse team due to lack of sampling, but I could see the reasoning for ranking c9 > eg
EG is destroying everyone they play. 2-0 Empire, 2-0 C9, and plenty of other nice results and they still get the shaft. They are getting these results with a stand in. I am a Liquid fan, but EG is on fire and I don't think Empire should be that highly rated as they have been dropping sets lately.
On April 08 2014 07:25 FuzzyJAM wrote: Pretty confident Na'vi would not have been ranked first if their team name was anything else.
Yep, but yet it is the fact that they are Na'Vi that tells you their record does not. When they turn it on, they are like no other team.
But I thought power ranks were supposed to be about who is performing the best at the moment, not who is the most skilled or has the best record over the past three years or whatever.
Except Na'Vi has a really good record in Starladder and clearly gives actively no fucks about the MLG event. They are the same team they have always been and do well in the events they care about. And that team is still one of the best teams out there.
And lets be clear, the distance between 1-5 is not huge. All these teams are very good.
On April 08 2014 04:37 andyrau wrote: my point was it's a power ranking so it's an overall performance indication
hence it's not unimaginable to put c9 over eg like his phrasing suggests
Except for the part where EG beat them and they lost to liquid. Greed is not always good, no matter what Wall Street says.
uh then they stomped the shit out of tl in d2l
again, point is it's not completely inconceivable for someone to put them over eg in a ranking, especially if you consider that he ranks c9 below simply off a head to head winrate. eg hasn't even played na'vi or alliance, whereas c9 has beat both teams, albeit in a small online sample size. not saying that eg is necessarily a worse team due to lack of sampling, but I could see the reasoning for ranking c9 > eg
No, i didn't do it simply off head to head. Go back and read my post.
how the hell could you put C9 over EG? They just continue to smash them head to head and they do just as well, if not better against other teams...
EG has just been playing better than C9. EG has won three different tournaments over the last 2ish months. C9 hasn't won any. C9 was in those tournaments too. Not to mention C9 flamed out of MLG TKO by losing to TL... TL...
Dunno why I bother to read these comments, it's always just people trying to troll each other...
I think how you rank teams can be done by how well they have been doing, or how well you expect them to do going forward. Dwelling on that past seems to make the rankings kinda redundant, because well.. anyone can look at stats and try and bend them to whatever ranking they want... just going to cause arguments.
With that it mind I think EG's ranking is inflated a little more than it should be. EG was a "new" team, playing a "new" style of DotA, and the EU teams didn't really have any reason to study them. Yes they should have in the way that all teams should study other hot teams, but if it's not immediately important it doesn't tend to happen. It's not a unique phenomenon, and it's something that happens quite often in games. It happened with SIGMA, where they played a fairly specific style of early game DotA, and people (for some reason) jumped all over how good they were. Fast forward a few months, their style got figured out, and look where they are now. Not that I really expect that to happen to EG in the same way as it did to SIGMA. I suspect they will be more way flexible than that, and things will just settle down some. Just food for through I guess?
That said, I would be hard pressed to actually rank a top 5. C9 seems to perform randomly (From #1 to #wtf?) based on the league they are playing, Fnatic is in the same inconsistent spot they always are, and Alliance just kinda seems lost somehow?
Also, we're really bagging on C9 that hard for losing to TL, when EG has come extremely close to losing important series to them? I'm not sure, but it might even be the same total amount of games lost?
Additional random though: I have seen a large amount of EE bashing lately, largely surrounding how greedy he can be, and how he can sometimes feed and lose games for his team. These are the same criticisms that XBOCT was facing a year ago before he toned things down and people starting calling him amazing. Is history going to repeat itself? Will be fun to watch.
On April 08 2014 12:21 thebig1 wrote: Dunno why I bother to read these comments, it's always just people trying to troll each other...
I think how you rank teams can be done by how well they have been doing, or how well you expect them to do going forward. Dwelling on that past seems to make the rankings kinda redundant, because well.. anyone can look at stats and try and bend them to whatever ranking they want... just going to cause arguments.
With that it mind I think EG's ranking is inflated a little more than it should be. EG was a "new" team, playing a "new" style of DotA, and the EU teams didn't really have any reason to study them. Yes they should have in the way that all teams should study other hot teams, but if it's not immediately important it doesn't tend to happen. It's not a unique phenomenon, and it's something that happens quite often in games. It happened with SIGMA, where they played a fairly specific style of early game DotA, and people (for some reason) jumped all over how good they were. Fast forward a few months, their style got figured out, and look where they are now. Not that I really expect that to happen to EG in the same way as it did to SIGMA. I suspect they will be more way flexible than that, and things will just settle down some. Just food for through I guess?
That said, I would be hard pressed to actually rank a top 5. C9 seems to perform randomly (From #1 to #wtf?) based on the league they are playing, Fnatic is in the same inconsistent spot they always are, and Alliance just kinda seems lost somehow?
Also, we're really bagging on C9 that hard for losing to TL, when EG has come extremely close to losing important series to them? I'm not sure, but it might even be the same total amount of games lost?
Additional random though: I have seen a large amount of EE bashing lately, largely surrounding how greedy he can be, and how he can sometimes feed and lose games for his team. These are the same criticisms that XBOCT was facing a year ago before he toned things down and people starting calling him amazing. Is history going to repeat itself? Will be fun to watch.
standard posts in a PR thread
surprised LGD is higher than Titan, maybe I'm watching too little Dota
even reading the EG explanation, i have no idea how you could put them as 3rd. They simply don't have the games against top teams to be considered. 5th at best.
as much as i hate na'vi they are top dog right now followed by empire .. and the only reason why empire isn't number one is without tournament results they can't be proven number one
although i know EG is strong but i can't really say they are top 3 maybe 4 or 5 since they don't have too much experience vs other really top teams
At the end of the day, it depends on by what metric one ranks the teams.
The central question that I personally believe in the most is:
"If there was a major LAN in a week, how would I expect the teams to do". As such I as a writer take things into prior LAN experience, team potential, ability to adapt and innovate, and that ever so transient X-factor that make up a team's ability to perform on LAN.
On April 08 2014 04:37 andyrau wrote: my point was it's a power ranking so it's an overall performance indication
hence it's not unimaginable to put c9 over eg like his phrasing suggests
Except for the part where EG beat them and they lost to liquid. Greed is not always good, no matter what Wall Street says.
uh then they stomped the shit out of tl in d2l
again, point is it's not completely inconceivable for someone to put them over eg in a ranking, especially if you consider that he ranks c9 below simply off a head to head winrate. eg hasn't even played na'vi or alliance, whereas c9 has beat both teams, albeit in a small online sample size. not saying that eg is necessarily a worse team due to lack of sampling, but I could see the reasoning for ranking c9 > eg
No, i didn't do it simply off head to head. Go back and read my post.
how the hell could you put C9 over EG? They just continue to smash them head to head and they do just as well, if not better against other teams...
EG has just been playing better than C9. EG has won three different tournaments over the last 2ish months. C9 hasn't won any. C9 was in those tournaments too. Not to mention C9 flamed out of MLG TKO by losing to TL... TL...
eg has played c9 & tl a million times, and a bare handful of significant teams
c9 plays against literally everyone in the west with a decent winrate not to mention they destroyed TL after losing to them, no clue why you keep bringing up one bo3.
as a sidenote I'd probably put eg over c9 too, simply because of consistency. c9 is amazing one game and awful another.
On April 08 2014 15:04 andyrau wrote: as a sidenote I'd probably put eg over c9 too, simply because of consistency. c9 is amazing one game and awful another.
There really isn't much more to it than this. EG is more consistent and as such their higher ranking is justified.
You know I don't care too much about dota 2, but navi are my favs. That said, your ranking makes no sense based purely on the ranks from individual judges. Navi got 2x 1st, 1x 2nd, 1x 3rd. Empire got 2x 1st and 2x 2nx. Empire is categorically ranked higher in this regard. The only viable explanation is that kupon3ss and Tephus's votes are considered more important than Shostakovich and kpoptosis.
Cloud 9 should be third because after I saw them play NA'Vi in the D2L today, they really both spooked and impressed me. I think they have this weird potential when they hit full gear, I would not be surprised to take it pretty far at TI4. A consistent team like Empire is less scary to me than a team like C9, C9 really could do some crazy damage.
In North American English a new use has developed in recent years, meaning ‘unperturbed’—more or less the opposite of its traditional meaning—as in he was clearly trying to appear nonplussed . This new use probably arose on the assumption that non- was the normal negative prefix and must therefore have a negative meaning. It is not considered part of standard English.
I changed it to unfazed so it's less confusing but I'd like to note that as esports typically runs on American English usages we have a good claim at it being okay.
This is really getting me hyped for TI4 tbh. TI3 felt like it was mainly Alliance and Na`Vi battling it out (yes, na`vi barely made finals due to luck and questionable plays, but when there they showed they deserved it more than anyone else), but this year there are a lot of very high performing teams and no stupid ACE restriction to keep the chinese down.
Dream finals would be an epic East vs West showdown, but I'm not sure who I'd put up against DK. The only two teams I can see competing with them are Na`Vi and Alliance tbh, and Na`Vi in every grand final is getting bit boring, but Alliance won last year so... meh... I dunno really. Probably Na`Vi since they usually bring amazing plays when it matters.
I think right now you cannot make a list with european/usa teams. Fnatic, navi, empire, c9 looks so even... [A] little lower and Eg didnt plaay many matches vs previous one mentioned.
On April 09 2014 00:31 Taters_ wrote: I think Titan plays better atm than LGD, though LGD hasn't been playing as much as Titan yet after the break in asian games but still.
On April 09 2014 00:31 Taters_ wrote: I think Titan plays better atm than LGD, though LGD hasn't been playing as much as Titan yet after the break in asian games but still.
On April 08 2014 16:27 Heyoka wrote: I changed it to unfazed so it's less confusing but I'd like to note that as esports typically runs on American English usages we have a good claim at it being okay.
Same way that American English thinks "nimrod" is synonymous with "idiot". Blame that one on Bugs Bunny.
Unless it's so common that no one would ever look for a dictionary, it's probably best to stick with words that don't have definitions created from misunderstandings.
On April 09 2014 05:05 _SpiRaL_ wrote: So why has the error with Navi ahead of Empire not been fixed yet?
I don't mean in an opinion way, I mean the factual error based on their own individual ranks.
It says right in the awards why they didn't get first. Like right in the awards. They are very good, but the writers think Na'Vi would prefore better if a LAN was held tomorrow.
If nothing else I would place C9 in 4th for shear creativity and dedication to their craft in comparison to the seemingly ignorant and predictable Alliance.
On April 09 2014 09:00 BatesCsC wrote: If nothing else I would place C9 in 4th for shear creativity and dedication to their craft in comparison to the seemingly ignorant and predictable Alliance.
Well also because c9 has beaten Alliance several times in the last few matches they have played against them
On April 09 2014 09:00 BatesCsC wrote: If nothing else I would place C9 in 4th for shear creativity and dedication to their craft in comparison to the seemingly ignorant and predictable Alliance.
On April 09 2014 09:00 BatesCsC wrote: If nothing else I would place C9 in 4th for shear creativity and dedication to their craft in comparison to the seemingly ignorant and predictable Alliance.
yes, mirana + luna, very unpredictable.
Creativity =/= unpredictability, not that Cloud 9 is missing that either.
On April 08 2014 13:31 Prplppleatr wrote: even reading the EG explanation, i have no idea how you could put them as 3rd. They simply don't have the games against top teams to be considered. 5th at best.
ps guy quoted above me says it great.
5th at best? really? they haven't lost to Empire since Feb, in like, 5 or 6 games already, Fnatic lost to them recently, don't even get me started on VP, Dog, C9 and company and the NA scene. . the only downside to this was actually having a 50-50 or so victory over RoX, and not having played Navi (Alliance is playing like utter . . .ugh). .
So no, I have no idea why you would put them in 5th. . . at best. . .
On April 09 2014 06:28 MCDayC wrote: so are the ranks decided by the aggregate of the writers scores or not? Cause if so Empire should be first right?
The writers' ranks are taken into account, but in the end the editors have a say too. So it's not just the average of the votes, no!
Well then the editors picks should be explicitly stated or no one's at all. What is the point in having individual ranks shown if they aren't the deciding factor? its misleading and makes the power rank look ridiculous.
And Plansix-we know you have a low IQ no need to keep replying.
On April 09 2014 06:28 MCDayC wrote: so are the ranks decided by the aggregate of the writers scores or not? Cause if so Empire should be first right?
The writers' ranks are taken into account, but in the end the editors have a say too. So it's not just the average of the votes, no!
Well then the editors picks should be explicitly stated or no one's at all. What is the point in having individual ranks shown if they aren't the deciding factor? its misleading and makes the power rank look ridiculous.
And Plansix-we know you have a low IQ no need to keep replying.
But it's all I know...and don't tell how smart I is! You're not the boss of me!
The Eastern ranks are pretty solid, and very few people would argue against it. The Western ranks are definitely a bit murky, especially w/o seeing how Empire would fare in LANs. Resolution's drafting really has done a lot of work for Empire's wins, but in a LAN environment drafting is quite a bit more difficult/different. We gonna have to wait and see!
Id say C9 should be fourth because their potential is high enough to place third and even contest for second. Inconsistancy keeps them out of those positions for sure though.
EPT
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