pls exclude barbs cause i already have one and i hate having to get fury especially in parties. I just plan to keep farming a3 mp0.
thanks.
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Levistus
1134 Posts
pls exclude barbs cause i already have one and i hate having to get fury especially in parties. I just plan to keep farming a3 mp0. thanks. | ||
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bGr.MetHiX
Bulgaria511 Posts
dh monk wiz wd imho | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Constant Vault (with rune that reduces cost when you chain vaults) + Tactical Advantage Passive (60% movement speed bonus) allows you to run everywhere crazy fast. Sure, it has restrictions with discipline but with the proper passives for disc regen (Vengeance, Nightstalker, Perfectionist pick your favorite 2 for me it's Veangance and Perfectionist) and Preparation you can run around killing quite quickly. Clear large areas with ball lightning and you're good to go... | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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Levistus
1134 Posts
On November 20 2012 00:43 goodkarma wrote: Granted, I might be a little biased, but I'd say demon hunter. Constant Vault (with rune that reduces cost when you chain vaults) + Tactical Advantage Passive (60% movement speed bonus) allows you to run everywhere crazy fast. Sure, it has restrictions with discipline but with the proper passives for disc regen (Vengeance, Nightstalker, Perfectionist pick your favorite 2 for me it's Veangance and Perfectionist) and Preparation you can run around killing quite quickly. Clear large areas with ball lightning and you're good to go... yea i've seen a dh using vault and ball lightning. he was really fast. On November 20 2012 00:24 bGr.MetHiX wrote: barb is best dh monk wiz wd imho i hate barb downtime when i run out of fury. also, can you still keep wotb up for a long time? if yes, i cant seem to do it and i don't know why. | ||
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Levistus
1134 Posts
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alQahira
United States511 Posts
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jESUIT
United States151 Posts
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
My guesses as to high movement speed builds: Wizard - variable 25 + 25 (scramble) = 50% move speed - uptime dependant on getting hit. +Quad-Wormhole teleport w/ Illusionist. Monk - constant 25 + 10 (Fleet) + 25 (Tailwind) = 60% move speed - uptime dependant on spirit regen gear vs attack speed. +Dashing Strike. Barb - variable 25 + 40 (sprint) + 20 (wotb) = 85% move speed - uptime dependant on mob density/hp & crit. +Leap Demon Hunter - variable 25 + 60 (tactical) = 85% move speed - uptime dependant on disc/crit/nats/regen. +Tumbling. Witch Doctor - variable 25 + 50 (jaunt) + 20 (Stalker) = 95% move speed - uptime dependant on mob density & pickup radius. So Wiz can port across the map with wormhole, but sputter down to 25% until they get hit, Monks can have 100% uptime of 60% but can dashing strike across the map. Barbs, DH, and WD are limited by the mob density to regen their resources thru crit/kills/etc. I haven't played wiz in a while so don't really know how archon can move fast. All of these builds are assuming enough dps to one shot stuff so kill speed should be equalish. | ||
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Levistus
1134 Posts
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Tribute
United States146 Posts
A group effort is the best way to go about a fast clear though. Barb for forced march, WD with 0cd sac dogs, Cyclone Strike monk, plus one other, probably DH to pick off the stragglers. Insanely fast. | ||
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zylog
Canada943 Posts
On November 20 2012 02:44 Burrfoot wrote: I too am curious as what 'speed-clearing' builds are out there. I have all classes at 60, just been twinking them out with the terrible legendaries I find on my Monk. Working on my last class to beat inferno (WD) and have been irritated at how slow it is sometimes at a mere 24% movement speed as I don't kill fast enough to jaunt around all the time. My guesses as to high movement speed builds: Wizard - variable 25 + 25 (scramble) = 50% move speed - uptime dependant on getting hit. +Quad-Wormhole teleport w/ Illusionist. Monk - constant 25 + 10 (Fleet) + 25 (Tailwind) = 60% move speed - uptime dependant on spirit regen gear vs attack speed. +Dashing Strike. Barb - variable 25 + 40 (sprint) + 20 (wotb) = 85% move speed - uptime dependant on mob density/hp & crit. +Leap Demon Hunter - variable 25 + 60 (tactical) = 85% move speed - uptime dependant on disc/crit/nats/regen. +Tumbling. Witch Doctor - variable 25 + 50 (jaunt) + 20 (Stalker) = 95% move speed - uptime dependant on mob density & pickup radius. So Wiz can port across the map with wormhole, but sputter down to 25% until they get hit, Monks can have 100% uptime of 60% but can dashing strike across the map. Barbs, DH, and WD are limited by the mob density to regen their resources thru crit/kills/etc. I haven't played wiz in a while so don't really know how archon can move fast. All of these builds are assuming enough dps to one shot stuff so kill speed should be equalish. In terms of move speed, something that is often overlooked is the awesome forced march ability of barbs which can be great in team play. Basically you can add 20% to any of the above by playing in a team with a barb. A 2 barb party can run around at 20% (forced march) + 40% (sprint) + 20% (WotB) + 25% (gear) = 105% movespeed. Also, for barbs don't forget that marathon goes up to 50% and frenzy vanguard gives another 15% though it takes much more micromanagement. | ||
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serum321
United States606 Posts
I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. If you're having disc problems with your demon hunter you're not doing it right. I only have like 42 disc, and I can spam vault when doing alk runs no problem. And tbh, alk runs are like the only runs worth doing if you want optimal exp and loot per hour farming. | ||
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eqinf
Germany100 Posts
actually wd dh and baba are good for low lvl speedfarming (1-5) monk and sorc are better for farming 8-10 (obv depending on ur dps , u cant farm ml 10 with less than 300k dps unbuffed as monk , coz it suxx) | ||
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Levistus
1134 Posts
On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. what about fury generation? you will run out of fury without run like the wind right? | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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flexgd
183 Posts
strafespec i think this is one of the fastest specs to clear mobs u can manage sub10min alkaizer runs with it and can keep your sprint up almost 100% | ||
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serum321
United States606 Posts
On November 21 2012 00:33 Levistus wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. what about fury generation? you will run out of fury without run like the wind right? You can generate fury way faster than hatred or disclipine. Also if you wanted with unforgiving passive and 5pc ik set you can keep sprint - marathon up 100% of the time without losing fury. | ||
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serum321
United States606 Posts
On November 20 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. If you're having disc problems with your demon hunter you're not doing it right. I only have like 42 disc, and I can spam vault when doing alk runs no problem. And tbh, alk runs are like the only runs worth doing if you want optimal exp and loot per hour farming. I didn't say it can't be done, I'm saying, in my experience - having played both classes end game, a barb's fury regeneration is much better than a dh's resource regeneration. Gear can alleviate those issues, but its not cheap. Edit - I mean I don't get what the op is complaining about barb fury generation, as I play my barb right now once I fill up my fury I never run out. If he thinks this is bad you definitely don't want to touch dh. | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Levistus
1134 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:21 serum321 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 00:33 Levistus wrote: On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. what about fury generation? you will run out of fury without run like the wind right? You can generate fury way faster than hatred or disclipine. Also if you wanted with unforgiving passive and 5pc ik set you can keep sprint - marathon up 100% of the time without losing fury. i meant using marathon over run like the wind as you said in your post. | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
But the thing I absolutely love about the WD build is the 50+ pickup radius! ;-D | ||
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Franthier
China64 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:43 serum321 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote: On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. If you're having disc problems with your demon hunter you're not doing it right. I only have like 42 disc, and I can spam vault when doing alk runs no problem. And tbh, alk runs are like the only runs worth doing if you want optimal exp and loot per hour farming. I didn't say it can't be done, I'm saying, in my experience - having played both classes end game, a barb's fury regeneration is much better than a dh's resource regeneration. Gear can alleviate those issues, but its not cheap. Edit - I mean I don't get what the op is complaining about barb fury generation, as I play my barb right now once I fill up my fury I never run out. If he thinks this is bad you definitely don't want to touch dh. Vengeance will keep a DHs resources maxed, so it's never an issue at low MP runs. I think a Barb will be faster if you're picking up more items, but a DH will be faster the more you ignore items. Assuming that both are extremely well-geared, of course. | ||
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FConnectionUK
United States316 Posts
I can't even believe DH is even in this conversation. Regretful owner of lvl 98 DH. Proud owner of lvl 59 Barb. The difference in speed is TOO immense even to compare. Barbarians are the Hammerdins of D2. If you want efficient farming, make Barb. | ||
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Confuse
2238 Posts
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serum321
United States606 Posts
On November 27 2012 13:02 WolfintheSheep wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 05:43 serum321 wrote: On November 20 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote: On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. If you're having disc problems with your demon hunter you're not doing it right. I only have like 42 disc, and I can spam vault when doing alk runs no problem. And tbh, alk runs are like the only runs worth doing if you want optimal exp and loot per hour farming. I didn't say it can't be done, I'm saying, in my experience - having played both classes end game, a barb's fury regeneration is much better than a dh's resource regeneration. Gear can alleviate those issues, but its not cheap. Edit - I mean I don't get what the op is complaining about barb fury generation, as I play my barb right now once I fill up my fury I never run out. If he thinks this is bad you definitely don't want to touch dh. Vengeance will keep a DHs resources maxed, so it's never an issue at low MP runs. I think a Barb will be faster if you're picking up more items, but a DH will be faster the more you ignore items. Assuming that both are extremely well-geared, of course. The question in the op was if assuming you're 1 shotting mobs which class clears a3 mp0 the fastest and the answer is barb. An extremely well geared dh may come close, but you could do the same thing you do w/ a 10m barb that you can do w/ a 500m dh. Spend 10m on a barb and 10m on a dh and tell me the dh doesn't have massive resource regeneration problems in comparison to the barb. And that is just to come close, there is a reason why the first person to paragon lvl 100 by a wide margin was a barb and then the next 99 ppl barbs outnumbers all other classes combined. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
additionally, barbs are, design-wise, very well-suited for high MP lvls while dhs struggle the most of all classes when they cant kill monsters fast enough. oh, and on high mp levels, barbs with godly gear and hammer build rule supreme. just watch kongor kill MP 10 ubers in less than a minute. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 29 2012 00:54 serum321 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2012 13:02 WolfintheSheep wrote: On November 21 2012 05:43 serum321 wrote: On November 20 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote: On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. If you're having disc problems with your demon hunter you're not doing it right. I only have like 42 disc, and I can spam vault when doing alk runs no problem. And tbh, alk runs are like the only runs worth doing if you want optimal exp and loot per hour farming. I didn't say it can't be done, I'm saying, in my experience - having played both classes end game, a barb's fury regeneration is much better than a dh's resource regeneration. Gear can alleviate those issues, but its not cheap. Edit - I mean I don't get what the op is complaining about barb fury generation, as I play my barb right now once I fill up my fury I never run out. If he thinks this is bad you definitely don't want to touch dh. Vengeance will keep a DHs resources maxed, so it's never an issue at low MP runs. I think a Barb will be faster if you're picking up more items, but a DH will be faster the more you ignore items. Assuming that both are extremely well-geared, of course. The question in the op was if assuming you're 1 shotting mobs which class clears a3 mp0 the fastest and the answer is barb. An extremely well geared dh may come close, but you could do the same thing you do w/ a 10m barb that you can do w/ a 500m dh. Spend 10m on a barb and 10m on a dh and tell me the dh doesn't have massive resource regeneration problems in comparison to the barb. And that is just to come close, there is a reason why the first person to paragon lvl 100 by a wide margin was a barb and then the next 99 ppl barbs outnumbers all other classes combined. Tons of ridiculous hyperbole here... A 10m Barb will have like 1/3rd the DPS of a 500m DH. There is no way in hell that a Barb with 10 mil will oneshot elite packs, which 500m for DH can do. And once again, as long as you're 1-2 shotting white mobs as a DH, resource management is never an issue in MP0 runs. Ever. Barbs don't run out of Fury, but a DH won't run out of hatred or discipline. No point comparing either, because neither have issues. By the way, the #2 character to Paragon 100 was a Demon Hunter. And he was only a day or two behind. Reaching P100 wasn't about speed, it was about spending 10-14 hours a day doing it. When it comes to speed, a Barb will run faster, but has to either run up to each enemy or wait for them to clump and go back to kill them. A Demon Hunter will move slower on average, but kills all enemies from range. A DH that ignores all drops and just kills everything can essentially just run through each area in a straight line, while a barb will have to zigzag or backtrack to kill mobs. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
1. Barb 2. Monk 3. DH 4 Wiz 5. WD | ||
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serum321
United States606 Posts
On November 29 2012 04:26 WolfintheSheep wrote: Show nested quote + On November 29 2012 00:54 serum321 wrote: On November 27 2012 13:02 WolfintheSheep wrote: On November 21 2012 05:43 serum321 wrote: On November 20 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote: On November 20 2012 14:24 serum321 wrote: Yeah, if you're one shotting mobs barbs should be using marathon, you can pretty much perma keep it up and another plus to barbs is with whirlwind you don't even have to stop to kill mobs, you just mow right through them. I have both barb and dh. Op if you don't care for the resource regeneration with barb and you want to move/kill quickly I can tell you don't roll dh. With vault/tactical you have to use an active and passive skill, its only 2s and you will constantly be out of disclipine compared to a barb's fury. You have to stop to shoot, a huge minus unless you use strafe and again you'll run out of hatred a lot faster than you'll run out of fury. If you're having disc problems with your demon hunter you're not doing it right. I only have like 42 disc, and I can spam vault when doing alk runs no problem. And tbh, alk runs are like the only runs worth doing if you want optimal exp and loot per hour farming. I didn't say it can't be done, I'm saying, in my experience - having played both classes end game, a barb's fury regeneration is much better than a dh's resource regeneration. Gear can alleviate those issues, but its not cheap. Edit - I mean I don't get what the op is complaining about barb fury generation, as I play my barb right now once I fill up my fury I never run out. If he thinks this is bad you definitely don't want to touch dh. Vengeance will keep a DHs resources maxed, so it's never an issue at low MP runs. I think a Barb will be faster if you're picking up more items, but a DH will be faster the more you ignore items. Assuming that both are extremely well-geared, of course. The question in the op was if assuming you're 1 shotting mobs which class clears a3 mp0 the fastest and the answer is barb. An extremely well geared dh may come close, but you could do the same thing you do w/ a 10m barb that you can do w/ a 500m dh. Spend 10m on a barb and 10m on a dh and tell me the dh doesn't have massive resource regeneration problems in comparison to the barb. And that is just to come close, there is a reason why the first person to paragon lvl 100 by a wide margin was a barb and then the next 99 ppl barbs outnumbers all other classes combined. Tons of ridiculous hyperbole here... A 10m Barb will have like 1/3rd the DPS of a 500m DH. There is no way in hell that a Barb with 10 mil will oneshot elite packs, which 500m for DH can do. And once again, as long as you're 1-2 shotting white mobs as a DH, resource management is never an issue in MP0 runs. Ever. Barbs don't run out of Fury, but a DH won't run out of hatred or discipline. No point comparing either, because neither have issues. By the way, the #2 character to Paragon 100 was a Demon Hunter. And he was only a day or two behind. Reaching P100 wasn't about speed, it was about spending 10-14 hours a day doing it. When it comes to speed, a Barb will run faster, but has to either run up to each enemy or wait for them to clump and go back to kill them. A Demon Hunter will move slower on average, but kills all enemies from range. A DH that ignores all drops and just kills everything can essentially just run through each area in a straight line, while a barb will have to zigzag or backtrack to kill mobs. 3 and 1/2 days when you're racing to #1 is an eternity and alkaizer said he slowed down in the end because the dh was no threat to catch him. I've always seen when ppl mention they can 1 shot most mobs to mean mostly 1 shotting white mobs, of course a ww barb in 10m gear can't one shot an elite pack, but neither can a dh. You're right about one thing though a barb with 10m in gear has about 1/3 the sheet dps of a 500m dh; but both can clear a3 mp0 at about the same speed, because they are both mostly one shotting things. Higher mp lvls, sure the dh will farm faster; but a half billion barb and a half billion dh are not even close. If you're one shotting things with a ww barb there is no waiting for clumping or zig zagging, you just mow on through. If you claim to never have resource issues because of vengeance then you need to run just as much as the barb to collect health globes unless you want to spend 1b in gear to get good stats and pickup radius. I just actually counted the top 100 a little while ago and I was a little off, it was something like 46 barbs in the top 100, does that not tell you that barbs farm xp at a faster rate? One class out of five and nearly 50% are one class. You are looking at dh through rose colored glasses. | ||
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zylog
Canada943 Posts
- drop wotb so you can stack rend/overpower/leap, this allows you to burst down elites. Loses 20% movespeed - use hota to sustain wotb instead of WW Loses moving attack - throttle damage down with a low dps mighty weapon might not be able to burst down elites as quickly with the gimped dps Meanwhile, the gear requirements for doing mp0 are quite low so some builds that impractically weak before are now quite viable for mp0. Monks can tempest rush and now have enough dps relative to the mobs to be able to oneshot in a single pass. WD can combine both horrify and spirit walk and have it cooldown instantly to be perpetually moving quickly. Builds like these don't rely on enemies being able to sustain a certain numbers of hits before dying, but instead on internal resource generation (tempest rush) or monster kills (gruesome feast). | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
In 1.04 the DH could 1 shot all trash without stopping using vault and then 2-3 shot elites with cluster arrow. There is no way for a barb to keep pace with this because the barb cannot keep up WotB while 1 shotting trash so is inherently slower. I think the paragon leveling race is a testament to Alkaizer's farming ingenuity: he created a farming route that is still the most efficient today and maximized the potential of an underused item (at the time). | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
Passives SS (my mf gear doesn't have a lot of crit) Tactical Advantage Vengeance Skills are Vault - Tumble Companion - Bat Rain of Vengeance - Beastly Bombs Shadow Power - Gloom Hungering Arrow - Puncturing Arrow Multishot - Suppression Fire It mainly goes like this White Mobs Vault to mobs ( Discipline might be low ) Multishot (most mobs dead and full disc globe) Vault through health globes (to restore hatred) and Multishot until clear Elites Gloom -> Bomb -> Continue as if White Mobs I never run out of discipline and on the odd chance i kill ~20 mobs and there's no health globe Puncturing Arrow cleans up the leftovers very fast and i'll have a full disc globe to keep on vaulting to the next pack. And bat + Puncturing clean up usually puts me at ~4/5 of a hatred globe before i hit then next pack. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
on the other hand, the hammer build can be ridiculously fast at killing shit even in higher monster power levels. if a 3-5 billion gold barb can clear mp6 in about 1.5 times the duration of an mp0-2 clear of an x billion dh, he might gain exp quicker in the end. | ||
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zylog
Canada943 Posts
On November 29 2012 09:16 ArC_man wrote: There's a difference between clearing mobs the fastest and gaining XP the fastest. 1.04 DH is IMO the fastest farmer in the game (and still might be in 1.05 if outrageously geared) if properly played but isn't the fastest leveler. Why is this? Because as a DH you're forced to choose between SoJ (which wasn't properly utilized during the leveling race early on by most) or Leoric's ring in 1.04 (since legacy Nat's set is mandatory for breakneck speed farming). Barbs can utilize both rings to not only destroy elites quickly but also level much faster as well. In 1.04 the DH could 1 shot all trash without stopping using vault and then 2-3 shot elites with cluster arrow. There is no way for a barb to keep pace with this because the barb cannot keep up WotB while 1 shotting trash so is inherently slower. I think the paragon leveling race is a testament to Alkaizer's farming ingenuity: he created a farming route that is still the most efficient today and maximized the potential of an underused item (at the time). Additionally, Alkaizer deliberately limited kept his DPS low enough with a mighty weapon so that he could maintain WotB, while using the SOJ + rend to help kill elites quickly despite the lower DPS. Also I don't think that he used the SOJ in conjunction with the Leoric's. I remember him saying that he swapped out the Leoric's in favour of the SOJ. | ||
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skorched
United States81 Posts
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banatboy
120 Posts
http://de.twitch.tv/jarmenster/b/341239725 strafespec i think this is one of the fastest specs to clear mobs u can manage sub10min alkaizer runs with it and can keep your sprint up almost 100% same strat i use on my DH when clearing mobs :D | ||
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Levistus
1134 Posts
On December 02 2012 09:22 banatboy wrote: Show nested quote + http://de.twitch.tv/jarmenster/b/341239725 strafespec i think this is one of the fastest specs to clear mobs u can manage sub10min alkaizer runs with it and can keep your sprint up almost 100% same strat i use on my DH when clearing mobs :D whats your damage? how much damage do you need to one hit trash mobs with a DH anyway? | ||
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
On November 29 2012 06:47 AnomalySC2 wrote: From best to worst as far as farming potential goes. 1. Barb 2. Monk 3. DH 4 Wiz 5. WD You are SO wrong its not even funny. So many people are hanging onto the idea from like 1.02 that WD is the worst class in the game... but in actuality you are simply horribly misinformed. I've got barb friends that are always in disbelief when we farm together and THEY are struggling to keep up with me... That's right, my WD farms faster then most barbs... and I never miss kills / gold because of my HUGE AoE and 56 pickup radius... I pick up gold from OFF the screen. On an average hour worth of Alkaizer runs, i net anywhere from 60-75million XP (this INCLUDES picking up 63 weapons, jewelry, gloves, bracers, and obviously legendaries)... but heres the kicker... I ALSO pick up about 500,000-750,000 GOLD per HOUR. Tell me another class that can do that... please. I started my WD just over 3 weeks ago, and in 130 hours of gameplay I've gone from act 1 normal char level 1, self levelled to 60, geared with gold hoarded from farming on my monk, and 1-55 paragon. 130 hours..., seriously. 20 or so of those hours is my time spent grinding out the 1-60... so that leaves a little over 100 hours of gameplay for 1-55 paragon. I've played all the classes. My WD is level 55, monk 45, and the rest level 10-20. WD is HANDS DOWN the most efficient farming class in the game. The only people that wont agree with this are the people that either haven't seen a SKILLED wd farm, or are simply oblivious to the classes potential. My profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/PR4Y-1891/hero/18904984 | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
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Confuse
2238 Posts
On December 03 2012 03:02 PR4Y wrote: Show nested quote + On November 29 2012 06:47 AnomalySC2 wrote: From best to worst as far as farming potential goes. 1. Barb 2. Monk 3. DH 4 Wiz 5. WD You are SO wrong its not even funny. So many people are hanging onto the idea from like 1.02 that WD is the worst class in the game... but in actuality you are simply horribly misinformed. I've got barb friends that are always in disbelief when we farm together and THEY are struggling to keep up with me... That's right, my WD farms faster then most barbs... and I never miss kills / gold because of my HUGE AoE and 56 pickup radius... I pick up gold from OFF the screen. On an average hour worth of Alkaizer runs, i net anywhere from 60-75million XP (this INCLUDES picking up 63 weapons, jewelry, gloves, bracers, and obviously legendaries)... but heres the kicker... I ALSO pick up about 500,000-750,000 GOLD per HOUR. Tell me another class that can do that... please. I started my WD just over 3 weeks ago, and in 130 hours of gameplay I've gone from act 1 normal char level 1, self levelled to 60, geared with gold hoarded from farming on my monk, and 1-55 paragon. 130 hours..., seriously. 20 or so of those hours is my time spent grinding out the 1-60... so that leaves a little over 100 hours of gameplay for 1-55 paragon. I've played all the classes. My WD is level 55, monk 45, and the rest level 10-20. WD is HANDS DOWN the most efficient farming class in the game. The only people that wont agree with this are the people that either haven't seen a SKILLED wd farm, or are simply oblivious to the classes potential. My profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/PR4Y-1891/hero/18904984 Good to know. I'd love to try your build and do some inferno farming with a WD; but my gear is definitely sub par. How much did it cost to gear up, and what damage do you think would be sufficient for inferno mp0 farming? Any other tips for "skilled wd farming" would be most appreciated. | ||
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wkk6813
30 Posts
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:42 Confuse wrote: Good to know. I'd love to try your build and do some inferno farming with a WD; but my gear is definitely sub par. How much did it cost to gear up, and what damage do you think would be sufficient for inferno mp0 farming? Any other tips for "skilled wd farming" would be most appreciated. My gear cost around 800m total. I'd say you could easily do just about as good as I am in MP0 for around 75-100m... but don't plan on running MP8 ubers with that gear-set. Some key points on gear to be able to do WD speed-runs: 1. DPS doesn't matter on your weapon... at all. Get a SPEAR with as HIGH minimum damage as possible (800+ preferred, 700+ is OK tho). Stack it with life steal and vita. Crit damage / socket not even required. The reason for this is you want to be able to 1 shot everything... so you want your MINIMUM hit range as high as possible... so you'll want a spear for the huge minimum damage. Alternatively, you could run with a decent skorn... but you'd need a TON of pickup radius on your gear since you wont be able to get the +20 radius from the Thing of the Deep offhand. 2. Pickup radius is KEY. Most people will say that 20 is fine, but its NOT. With 40+ radius, you can kill anything on the screen while moving away from them and still proc Grave Injustice. At 20 radius, you pretty much have to be on top of the mobs WHEN THEY DIE... so having a HUGE radius like 40-50 will let you be able to cast from a distance and not worry about being too close which GREATLY improves your speed. 3. Intelligence. I'd say you'll want 2500 at a minimum. The reason for this is it directly increases your MINIMUM damage... and it's very important to be able to 1shot trash mobs. Taking 2 shots to clear SOME mobs is ok, but you'll definitely want to be 1shotting everything in MP0 for this strategy to work well. 4. Sheet DPS doesn't matter, to a certain extent. I have 3100 int, 52% crit chance, and 450% crit damage... with 1.5 attacks per second. Stacking IAS might raise your paper DPS, but it will NOT help your clear speed since you are basically artificially raising your DPS while not increasing your actual damage per hit. I generally advise new WD's to stay away from too much IAS. A little bit wont kill you, but really you should be keeping your attacks per second under 1.6-1.7 5. As far as the rest of your gear goes... you'll want to get some Max Mana and Mana regen on gear. If you get the 4 piece zuni set bonus (AMAZING btw... I wouldn't run without it) this means getting like a zuni helm w/ crit chance (can't roll mana regen + crit chance, but has base max mana) and an offhand with mana regen. I use a zuni offhand and a helm with mana regen for the 4 piece, but a decent zuni offhand with crit chance + high avg dmg is going to cost a LOT (50m+) so I'd stay away from that and get a Thing of the Deep. This will give you some cushion room with your pickup radius on gear slots. I have 44 radius without a Thing of the Deep... but for you I'd recommend it for price reasons. 6. Some general stats to consider: 600+ all res unbuffed (800 unbuffed is great but if you'll be using soul harvest which gives you an additional ~450 res depending on how many stacks)... don't forget that your INT gives you all res, so if you reach 2500 INT, thats 250 all res. Keeping this in mind, you'll need about 250-300 all res on your gear to be OK for MP0 3.5k armor - I only have 3k armor but I also have 850 unbuffed res and 60k hp. I wouldn't run with under 3.5k armor if you dont have a lot of HP. 12% move speed is fine, despite what people say (for a WD using this strategy) - You'll be moving at +85% MS on top of your base, so forgetting about inna's pants or lacuni bracers is fine, and especially beneficial because you'll be able to get pickup radius and stay away from Attack Speed on those slots. Blackthorne Pants are very good for this build. Get 160+ vita or int and double socket IMO, or if you are on a tighter budget go with what works. These provide LoH which lets you ignore it on other slots, and a HUGE boost to your health pool. Don't pay attention to your unbuffed DPS. Like I said earlier, sheet DPS doesn't matter for this strategy, as long as your MINIMUM damage output with NON-CRIT hits is 1 shotting trash mobs, you'll be OK. ------------------------------- As far as skills are concerned: 1. Spirit Walk - Jaunt (increased duration means longer 50% move speed boost) sometimes you can switch this for Honored Guest if you have mana issues. Either will work fine. 2. Soul Harvest - Vengeful Spirit (280% weapon damage) I use this over the increased duration rune (Soul to Waste) because I find jumping into dense clusters of enemies and popping Soul Harvest is very effective. It should 1shot all the trash, and it saves you a TON of mana over using Acid Cloud. 3. Hex - Angry Chicken --- It doesn't say on the rune itself, but this actually gives +15% move speed. It's not a huge difference by itself, but really with this build you dont need any other skills and the increased move speed is great for traveling empty space. 4. Horrify - Stalker --- Increases move speed by 20% for 4 seconds... self explanatory. 5. Zombie Bears --- Use this against elite packs. Does WAY more damage then acid cloud, and costs less mana. 6. Acid Rain / Acid Cloud --- The 28 yard AoE is crucial to this build and clearing trash mobs. Use this sparingly, as it will be a heavy mana spender. Being able to 1shot trash mobs is very important for this reason. 2 shots SOMETIMES is OK, but if you aren't 1shotting most of the time you'll run into mana issues. If you ARE having mana issues, take Honored Guest on Spirit Walk instead of Jaunt, and it's basically a free mana potion Passives: 1. Grave Injustice --- Reduces all cooldowns and restores mana on kill... *REQUIRED* 2. Gruesome Feast --- Restores mana + increases INT when you pick up health globes *REQUIRED* And the kicker passive. The way I see it, you have 1 of 2 options here, and I'll explain which to use in each circumstance: If you are having a lot of mana issues and have already taken Honored Guest but need that "instant refill* on your mana, take the Circle of Life passive, and switch Hex - Angry Chicken for Sacrifice - Pride. You'll be getting a TON of zombie dogs with your radius, and using sacrifice will literally fill your mana bar. I've used this in the past but I have enough mana regen on my gear now so that I don't need it. If you aren't having mana problems at all, go with Spirit Vessel. The reason for this is NOT for the "cheat-death" feature... but it reduces the cooldowns on your two primary mobility skills, Spirit Walk and Horrify, by 2 seconds. It might not seem like a lot, but you'll notice (if you run without it) there are a few random times after you clear a room you'll have 2-3 seconds left on your cooldowns. You'll wish you took Spirit Vessel when that happens... so IMO if you aren't having mana problems, USE SPIRIT VESSEL! I think i've covered everything... if you have any questions, feel free to add me ingame and I'll be happy to give some advice! NA server @ PR4Y#1891 | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
I recommend EF as the mainhand. Black damage and the fear is almost OP as Acid Cloud and Darts have oddly high proc rates :-D | ||
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Soulmate
Japan138 Posts
On December 05 2012 01:25 Burrfoot wrote: For reference my budget MP0 WD I put together a few weeks ago for ~10m on US SC: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/hero/18267649 (~2k int, 400 AR, 45 pickup, 200% MF) I recommend EF as the mainhand. Black damage and the fear is almost OP as Acid Cloud and Darts have oddly high proc rates :-D Echoing is bad for WD. You don't want the attack speed. If I had to get a weapon with a high attackspeed, it would be one with mana regen. And if you don't have a talrash amu + zuni boots, you should not focus on getting a black weapon. I don't remember the name of the set weapon, ma..something. LS/CD/Int and can roll mana regen too. If you want a black weapon : Butcher's Sickle is also nice and very very cheap. (the hook is useful/fun too) To add to Pr4y's post : Shoulders : Cheap vile wards without vita Helm : Visage of Giyua with CC Amu/rings : Minimum damage or min - max. Offhand : Thing of the deep, highest average damage you can afford. Ban attackspeed from your gear. (well, if you have the gold to buy CC/CD/AS gear, go for it) The american AH seems a lot cheaper than the EU one ! | ||
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zylog
Canada943 Posts
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
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Soulmate
Japan138 Posts
@ Burrfoot : then with equivalent dps, every weapon with less AS is better than EF because you would need less bears to kill an elite pack. I also don't like the fear effect, if the mobs run away from me, I have to chase them. But that's personal preferences I guess ! | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
On December 05 2012 05:29 Burrfoot wrote: I use darts instead of bears so that's probably why I like IAS a lot and don't have mana issues. Compared to Monk/Barb that can move though mobs without stopping, cast time is a noticeable loss in clear speed. But come PvP, I'm sure more ranged folks will start liking the EF a lot more. Is not darts..pretty slow? When I'm speed running, my primary attack is acid cloud,secondary is zombie bears. Mana doesnt really matter, if you killing that fast. ...so there really is no need for a low mana attack. | ||
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Confuse
2238 Posts
On December 05 2012 01:13 PR4Y wrote: Show nested quote + On December 04 2012 15:42 Confuse wrote: Good to know. I'd love to try your build and do some inferno farming with a WD; but my gear is definitely sub par. How much did it cost to gear up, and what damage do you think would be sufficient for inferno mp0 farming? Any other tips for "skilled wd farming" would be most appreciated. My gear cost around 800m total. I'd say you could easily do just about as good as I am in MP0 for around 75-100m... but don't plan on running MP8 ubers with that gear-set. Some key points on gear to be able to do WD speed-runs: 1. DPS doesn't matter on your weapon... at all. Get a SPEAR with as HIGH minimum damage as possible (800+ preferred, 700+ is OK tho). Stack it with life steal and vita. Crit damage / socket not even required. The reason for this is you want to be able to 1 shot everything... so you want your MINIMUM hit range as high as possible... so you'll want a spear for the huge minimum damage. Alternatively, you could run with a decent skorn... but you'd need a TON of pickup radius on your gear since you wont be able to get the +20 radius from the Thing of the Deep offhand. 2. Pickup radius is KEY. Most people will say that 20 is fine, but its NOT. With 40+ radius, you can kill anything on the screen while moving away from them and still proc Grave Injustice. At 20 radius, you pretty much have to be on top of the mobs WHEN THEY DIE... so having a HUGE radius like 40-50 will let you be able to cast from a distance and not worry about being too close which GREATLY improves your speed. 3. Intelligence. I'd say you'll want 2500 at a minimum. The reason for this is it directly increases your MINIMUM damage... and it's very important to be able to 1shot trash mobs. Taking 2 shots to clear SOME mobs is ok, but you'll definitely want to be 1shotting everything in MP0 for this strategy to work well. 4. Sheet DPS doesn't matter, to a certain extent. I have 3100 int, 52% crit chance, and 450% crit damage... with 1.5 attacks per second. Stacking IAS might raise your paper DPS, but it will NOT help your clear speed since you are basically artificially raising your DPS while not increasing your actual damage per hit. I generally advise new WD's to stay away from too much IAS. A little bit wont kill you, but really you should be keeping your attacks per second under 1.6-1.7 5. As far as the rest of your gear goes... you'll want to get some Max Mana and Mana regen on gear. If you get the 4 piece zuni set bonus (AMAZING btw... I wouldn't run without it) this means getting like a zuni helm w/ crit chance (can't roll mana regen + crit chance, but has base max mana) and an offhand with mana regen. I use a zuni offhand and a helm with mana regen for the 4 piece, but a decent zuni offhand with crit chance + high avg dmg is going to cost a LOT (50m+) so I'd stay away from that and get a Thing of the Deep. This will give you some cushion room with your pickup radius on gear slots. I have 44 radius without a Thing of the Deep... but for you I'd recommend it for price reasons. 6. Some general stats to consider: 600+ all res unbuffed (800 unbuffed is great but if you'll be using soul harvest which gives you an additional ~450 res depending on how many stacks)... don't forget that your INT gives you all res, so if you reach 2500 INT, thats 250 all res. Keeping this in mind, you'll need about 250-300 all res on your gear to be OK for MP0 3.5k armor - I only have 3k armor but I also have 850 unbuffed res and 60k hp. I wouldn't run with under 3.5k armor if you dont have a lot of HP. 12% move speed is fine, despite what people say (for a WD using this strategy) - You'll be moving at +85% MS on top of your base, so forgetting about inna's pants or lacuni bracers is fine, and especially beneficial because you'll be able to get pickup radius and stay away from Attack Speed on those slots. Blackthorne Pants are very good for this build. Get 160+ vita or int and double socket IMO, or if you are on a tighter budget go with what works. These provide LoH which lets you ignore it on other slots, and a HUGE boost to your health pool. Don't pay attention to your unbuffed DPS. Like I said earlier, sheet DPS doesn't matter for this strategy, as long as your MINIMUM damage output with NON-CRIT hits is 1 shotting trash mobs, you'll be OK. ------------------------------- As far as skills are concerned: 1. Spirit Walk - Jaunt (increased duration means longer 50% move speed boost) sometimes you can switch this for Honored Guest if you have mana issues. Either will work fine. 2. Soul Harvest - Vengeful Spirit (280% weapon damage) I use this over the increased duration rune (Soul to Waste) because I find jumping into dense clusters of enemies and popping Soul Harvest is very effective. It should 1shot all the trash, and it saves you a TON of mana over using Acid Cloud. 3. Hex - Angry Chicken --- It doesn't say on the rune itself, but this actually gives +15% move speed. It's not a huge difference by itself, but really with this build you dont need any other skills and the increased move speed is great for traveling empty space. 4. Horrify - Stalker --- Increases move speed by 20% for 4 seconds... self explanatory. 5. Zombie Bears --- Use this against elite packs. Does WAY more damage then acid cloud, and costs less mana. 6. Acid Rain / Acid Cloud --- The 28 yard AoE is crucial to this build and clearing trash mobs. Use this sparingly, as it will be a heavy mana spender. Being able to 1shot trash mobs is very important for this reason. 2 shots SOMETIMES is OK, but if you aren't 1shotting most of the time you'll run into mana issues. If you ARE having mana issues, take Honored Guest on Spirit Walk instead of Jaunt, and it's basically a free mana potion Passives: 1. Grave Injustice --- Reduces all cooldowns and restores mana on kill... *REQUIRED* 2. Gruesome Feast --- Restores mana + increases INT when you pick up health globes *REQUIRED* And the kicker passive. The way I see it, you have 1 of 2 options here, and I'll explain which to use in each circumstance: If you are having a lot of mana issues and have already taken Honored Guest but need that "instant refill* on your mana, take the Circle of Life passive, and switch Hex - Angry Chicken for Sacrifice - Pride. You'll be getting a TON of zombie dogs with your radius, and using sacrifice will literally fill your mana bar. I've used this in the past but I have enough mana regen on my gear now so that I don't need it. If you aren't having mana problems at all, go with Spirit Vessel. The reason for this is NOT for the "cheat-death" feature... but it reduces the cooldowns on your two primary mobility skills, Spirit Walk and Horrify, by 2 seconds. It might not seem like a lot, but you'll notice (if you run without it) there are a few random times after you clear a room you'll have 2-3 seconds left on your cooldowns. You'll wish you took Spirit Vessel when that happens... so IMO if you aren't having mana problems, USE SPIRIT VESSEL! I think i've covered everything... if you have any questions, feel free to add me ingame and I'll be happy to give some advice! NA server @ PR4Y#1891 wow this is crazy indepth! thanks so much for this, I'll give it a try once I get my monk to level 80 paragon (at 78 right now) cheers! | ||
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Whoranzone
Germany330 Posts
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:05 dartoo wrote: Show nested quote + On December 05 2012 05:29 Burrfoot wrote: I use darts instead of bears so that's probably why I like IAS a lot and don't have mana issues. Compared to Monk/Barb that can move though mobs without stopping, cast time is a noticeable loss in clear speed. But come PvP, I'm sure more ranged folks will start liking the EF a lot more. Is not darts..pretty slow? When I'm speed running, my primary attack is acid cloud,secondary is zombie bears. Mana doesnt really matter, if you killing that fast. ...so there really is no need for a low mana attack. Darts is only for single target to keep feared in a corner the elites I can't one shot with AC (as i use EF w/ ias gear) as bears have bad proc coefficent a and My WD alt gear is pretty terrible compared to most. Plus I've alway hated slow attack speed / animations in every game I ever play, so that's probably my personal preference too heh. Couldn't find much data on Acid clouds exact proc coefficent (one post said 280%...?) but with EF w ~19% fear packs are always against the wall doing nothing after an AC or two and its aoe so I almost expect a nerf someday. | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
Wizard - variable 25 + 25 (scramble) = 50% move speed - uptime dependant on getting hit. +Quad-Wormhole teleport w/ Illusionist. Monk - constant 25 + 10 (Fleet) + 25 (Tailwind) = 60% move speed - uptime dependant on spirit regen gear vs attack speed. +Dashing Strike. Barb - variable 25 + 40 (sprint) + 20 (wotb) = 85% move speed - uptime dependant on mob density/hp & crit. +Leap Demon Hunter - variable 25 + 60 (tactical) = 85% move speed - uptime dependant on disc/crit/nats/regen. +Tumbling. Witch Doctor - variable 25 + 50 (jaunt) + 20 (Stalker) = 95% move speed - uptime dependant on mob density & pickup radius. Here is a plot I got bored at work to make with the standard builds listed: ![]() The Y-axis is movement speed, X-axis is time, and the area under is the actual distance traveled, which correlated directly to xp/loot. The y-axis drops to 0 are to account for attacking. Barbs & Monks have an advantage due to not needing to stop to attack (TR & WW) and the "clear area per minute" results in the following ranking: #1 - Barb 12421 - 60 second cycle with 2 sec casting then sprint to build up to unlimited wotb #2 - DH 10500 - 5 second cycle with 2 seconds of tumbling, 2 seconds of tactical, casting 1. #3 - Monk 9000 - unlimited TR cycle, casting 0 #4 - Wiz 8825 - 12 second "cycle" with 2 sec of Teleport, 2 sec of 25% ms, 6 sec 50% ms, casting 2. #5 - WD 7910 - 10 second "cycle" with Jaunt + Stalker 4 seconds, Chicken for 4, casting 2. So given the reliance on mob density for Barb WOTB uptime, some DH disc regen, Wiz CM proc to reduce teleport cd, and kills for WD cd reduce (I'm sure 95% will argue that the cycles above are terrible approximations) so the only arbitrary conclusion is that Monks are like the turtle in this race - slow but steady as they require neither mob density, crit, kills or stopping to cast/shoot/bash. edit: Thought about it some more, forgot to add 100 to all the non-zero movement which would skew the results towards Barb/Monk, but then realized Wiz/DH/WD actually have to travel less distance to kill the same mobs in a "fire and forget" mentality whereas barb/monk would need to actually path through enemies. This displacement factor is even more arbitrary and could skew the already arbitrary rankings. so tl'dr all classes have a completely viable speed farming build and it really doesn't matter what you pick ;-D | ||
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