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On May 22 2012 22:31 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:17 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 22:14 KobraKay wrote:
Well if you guys were like me and still at level 11, in normal first time playing....level2 BS gives awesome shit :p lol. Tried 3 times and got 3 items way better (like double defense from what Im finding killing monsters) and with stats +det, +vit, +magic find and +exper between them. My DH was happy with his new gear :D
Maybe the BS was created with early game and late late late game scenarios in mind, since the only people that seem "happy" about their gambles are those like me (noobs TT lol) and those at the top trying to find super gear. Thing is, the time you spent on the blacksmith, you could have spent actually playing... and when you get to lvl 13 or so, those nice items you spent quite a bit to create will be very lackluster. What time? It takes less than a minute to do everything I've done with the BS. You make it sound like it took forever =/ And maybe in 3 levels everything is better but untill then, I have way better gear than I used to. When I get to level 13 or 14 my gear will be all different probably. That doesn't mean that right now, the stuff I got isn't better than what I had. It took me less time to get those 3 items than to post this.
I doubt it took that fast, unless you ignore the fact that you had to salvage a ton of items for materials. Items you could have sold to the merchant and then used the money to buy even better gear off the AH.
Crafting is just ridiculously wasteful until inferno where you get recepies which allow you to make items better than what you can find. Crafting before then is a huge money sink which gives you a chance at items about as good as ones you can buy on the AH way cheaper.
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On May 22 2012 22:23 Pandemona wrote:
I have leveled it up to ermmm needed inferno to get the drops. (whatever level that is i forget) It is ok, pretty expensive but like someone else said its good for helping friends out with gear, as they can d/e there drops and give you the mats and it just costs you a couple 1k gold to create a nice level 25 legendary with (if lucky first go) imba stats for them. I havent seen anything i don't like on it yet and i think it worth it. I have my mate leveling Jewel Crafting with me too so its all good for us two, swap stuff between eachother. He DEs all his blues i give him all my jewels i find etc. Then when we need new gems for gear i crafted we swap and stuff good deal xD
Not to burst the bubble or anything, but it's cheaper to buy a few of the best gems off the AH than the gold it costs to upgrade the jewelcrafter to max 
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On May 22 2012 22:33 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:31 KobraKay wrote:On May 22 2012 22:17 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 22:14 KobraKay wrote:
Well if you guys were like me and still at level 11, in normal first time playing....level2 BS gives awesome shit :p lol. Tried 3 times and got 3 items way better (like double defense from what Im finding killing monsters) and with stats +det, +vit, +magic find and +exper between them. My DH was happy with his new gear :D
Maybe the BS was created with early game and late late late game scenarios in mind, since the only people that seem "happy" about their gambles are those like me (noobs TT lol) and those at the top trying to find super gear. Thing is, the time you spent on the blacksmith, you could have spent actually playing... and when you get to lvl 13 or so, those nice items you spent quite a bit to create will be very lackluster. What time? It takes less than a minute to do everything I've done with the BS. You make it sound like it took forever =/ And maybe in 3 levels everything is better but untill then, I have way better gear than I used to. When I get to level 13 or 14 my gear will be all different probably. That doesn't mean that right now, the stuff I got isn't better than what I had. It took me less time to get those 3 items than to post this. I doubt it took that fast, unless you ignore the fact that you had to salvage a ton of items for materials. Items you could have sold to the merchant and then used the money to buy even better gear off the AH. Crafting is just ridiculously wasteful until inferno where you get recepies which allow you to make items better than what you can find. Crafting before then is a huge money sink which gives you a chance at items about as good as ones you can buy on the AH way cheaper.
Killing monsters and getting blue items to salvage constitutes playing so Im not wasting playing time like you suggested. Of course if you count playing time killing monsters and following the dungeons it took more than 1 minute. But that is playing the game, had I sold the items it would take exactly the same time as salvage. Full back pack come to town sell whites, salvage blues go back to the dungeon. Zero play time loss since even if I didn't salvage I would have sold them and that takes exactly the same time. I didn't change anything to get those pieces. I had the money, I had the materials (you probably overstimate the requirements of low level stuff at the really low level I am lol)...
I get it people that play this game faithfully dont find it useful, that's why I stated that it was probably designed with really early game (or people like me who dont know or dont care or dont want to use the AH, and I would argue that using the AH takes more time than it took to use the BS) and really late game in mind since people in between dont find it usefull.
I never stated that it was usefull for everybody or that people should use it all the time. I was just saying that if you were scrubs like me (and probably lucky aswell) at level 11 you could get 3 items (so far) way better than anything else around. Yup probably wouldn't serve for longer than 3 or 4 levels, yes probably the combined 12k or 13k that those costed me (one level upgrade plus the value of salvaged items plus cost of building) would make it cheaper to buy equal or better things in the AH, but you can't say it killed my playing time or that it took playing time away from me, because it didn't. Just that 
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On May 22 2012 22:57 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:33 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 22:31 KobraKay wrote:On May 22 2012 22:17 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 22:14 KobraKay wrote:
Well if you guys were like me and still at level 11, in normal first time playing....level2 BS gives awesome shit :p lol. Tried 3 times and got 3 items way better (like double defense from what Im finding killing monsters) and with stats +det, +vit, +magic find and +exper between them. My DH was happy with his new gear :D
Maybe the BS was created with early game and late late late game scenarios in mind, since the only people that seem "happy" about their gambles are those like me (noobs TT lol) and those at the top trying to find super gear. Thing is, the time you spent on the blacksmith, you could have spent actually playing... and when you get to lvl 13 or so, those nice items you spent quite a bit to create will be very lackluster. What time? It takes less than a minute to do everything I've done with the BS. You make it sound like it took forever =/ And maybe in 3 levels everything is better but untill then, I have way better gear than I used to. When I get to level 13 or 14 my gear will be all different probably. That doesn't mean that right now, the stuff I got isn't better than what I had. It took me less time to get those 3 items than to post this. I doubt it took that fast, unless you ignore the fact that you had to salvage a ton of items for materials. Items you could have sold to the merchant and then used the money to buy even better gear off the AH. Crafting is just ridiculously wasteful until inferno where you get recepies which allow you to make items better than what you can find. Crafting before then is a huge money sink which gives you a chance at items about as good as ones you can buy on the AH way cheaper. Killing monsters and getting blue items to salvage constitutes playing so Im not wasting playing time like you suggested. Of course if you count playing time killing monsters and following the dungeons it took more than 1 minute. But that is playing the game, had I sold the items it would take exactly the same time as salvage. Full back pack come to town sell whites, salvage blues go back to the dungeon. Zero play time loss since even if I didn't salvage I would have sold them and that takes exactly the same time. I didn't change anything to get those pieces. I had the money, I had the materials (you probably overstimate the requirements of low level stuff at the really low level I am lol)... I get it people that play this game faithfully dont find it useful, that's why I stated that it was probably designed with really early game (or people like me who dont know or dont care or dont want to use the AH, and I would argue that using the AH takes more time than it took to use the BS) and really late game in mind since people in between dont find it usefull. I never stated that it was usefull for everybody or that people should use it all the time. I was just saying that if you were scrubs like me (and probably lucky aswell) at level 11 you could get 3 items (so far) way better than anything else around. Yup probably wouldn't serve for longer than 3 or 4 levels, yes probably the combined 12k or 13k that those costed me (one level upgrade plus the value of salvaged items plus cost of building) would make it cheaper to buy equal or better things in the AH, but you can't say it killed my playing time or that it took playing time away from me, because it didn't. Just that
Well, you're saying it was probably designed for the early game, I'm showing why it can't have been since using the AH or just straight up leveling is faster and more effective. If crafting was designed for the early game, it would have been way cheaper to use and would hold for more than 3-4 levels (ie 20 minutes of play).
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On May 22 2012 23:08 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:57 KobraKay wrote:On May 22 2012 22:33 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 22:31 KobraKay wrote:On May 22 2012 22:17 Tobberoth wrote:On May 22 2012 22:14 KobraKay wrote:
Well if you guys were like me and still at level 11, in normal first time playing....level2 BS gives awesome shit :p lol. Tried 3 times and got 3 items way better (like double defense from what Im finding killing monsters) and with stats +det, +vit, +magic find and +exper between them. My DH was happy with his new gear :D
Maybe the BS was created with early game and late late late game scenarios in mind, since the only people that seem "happy" about their gambles are those like me (noobs TT lol) and those at the top trying to find super gear. Thing is, the time you spent on the blacksmith, you could have spent actually playing... and when you get to lvl 13 or so, those nice items you spent quite a bit to create will be very lackluster. What time? It takes less than a minute to do everything I've done with the BS. You make it sound like it took forever =/ And maybe in 3 levels everything is better but untill then, I have way better gear than I used to. When I get to level 13 or 14 my gear will be all different probably. That doesn't mean that right now, the stuff I got isn't better than what I had. It took me less time to get those 3 items than to post this. I doubt it took that fast, unless you ignore the fact that you had to salvage a ton of items for materials. Items you could have sold to the merchant and then used the money to buy even better gear off the AH. Crafting is just ridiculously wasteful until inferno where you get recepies which allow you to make items better than what you can find. Crafting before then is a huge money sink which gives you a chance at items about as good as ones you can buy on the AH way cheaper. Killing monsters and getting blue items to salvage constitutes playing so Im not wasting playing time like you suggested. Of course if you count playing time killing monsters and following the dungeons it took more than 1 minute. But that is playing the game, had I sold the items it would take exactly the same time as salvage. Full back pack come to town sell whites, salvage blues go back to the dungeon. Zero play time loss since even if I didn't salvage I would have sold them and that takes exactly the same time. I didn't change anything to get those pieces. I had the money, I had the materials (you probably overstimate the requirements of low level stuff at the really low level I am lol)... I get it people that play this game faithfully dont find it useful, that's why I stated that it was probably designed with really early game (or people like me who dont know or dont care or dont want to use the AH, and I would argue that using the AH takes more time than it took to use the BS) and really late game in mind since people in between dont find it usefull. I never stated that it was usefull for everybody or that people should use it all the time. I was just saying that if you were scrubs like me (and probably lucky aswell) at level 11 you could get 3 items (so far) way better than anything else around. Yup probably wouldn't serve for longer than 3 or 4 levels, yes probably the combined 12k or 13k that those costed me (one level upgrade plus the value of salvaged items plus cost of building) would make it cheaper to buy equal or better things in the AH, but you can't say it killed my playing time or that it took playing time away from me, because it didn't. Just that Well, you're saying it was probably designed for the early game, I'm showing why it can't have been since using the AH or just straight up leveling is faster and more effective. If crafting was designed for the early game, it would have been way cheaper to use and would hold for more than 3-4 levels (ie 20 minutes of play).
3 or 4 levels accounts for way more than 20 minutes =/ lol at least for me. But ok I'll give you that. I was just replying to when you were stating that it would take away actual playing time and I tried to show that was not the case. The explanation I offered about the low level/early game was based on my experience and was a possibility only, not a fact.
If you say that it doesn't make sense Im not going to argue with you due to lack of experience on my part, so my hypothesis on the design objective of BS is probably invalid and false. I can live with that 
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It's pretty good for getting good gear to your other heroes/friends. Other than that, you just have to be lucky. I leveled mine and am in inferno. Some legendary plans drop later, and you can also find some in the AH that are pretty good (while some others are pretty terrible and not worth you money). Bottom line is if you like playing multiple heroes, blacksmithing pays off. If you only plan on playing 1 hero, then I would suggest saving your money and spending it in the AH for the exact items you want.
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Pretty sure Exalted grand will produce the best items in the game from blacksmithing, jewelcrafting seems like a big waste still. I never seem toe ver get a good dice roll on my crafts though, wasted aroun d2 million trying to get one but no luck
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i leveled both up and used them solely on the 'fun' aspect. Crafting a rare gives the same feeling as you had in D2 when mephisto was about to go down. 'oh boy oh boy oh boy'.
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Inferno demon hunter here with maxed crafting (sorry for the wall of text, its useful I promise!) ; ultimately the blacksmith is an end game tool to make money. No point in crafting gear for your low level alts when you can get much better equipment for cheaper on the AH at this point.
Where the real fun comes in is the "Exalted fine" (5 random affixes) and "Exalted grand" (6 random affixes) recipes for specifically Bracers, Shoulders and Gloves. Legs, Boots and Helmets are also quite good but can be found in loot with generally good stats whereas the former are hard to find with good affixes.
Started off crafting shoulders/bracers until I got the "magic" combination of str/vit, dex/vit or int/vit with Magic Find/All Resist affixes. This combination of affixes is very desirable on the AH right now and can easily sell for hundreds of thousands to millions. Gloves can also come with attack speed and Critical modifiers (also very desirable).
There is an initial investment of either finding or simply purchasing the recipes for these items as the base maxed blacksmith only has regular exalted items. Most of the "Fine Exalted" recipes are on the market right now ranging from 200k-800k depending on the item crafted. The "Grand Exalted" recipes are a different beast and rarely surface on the market. I was lucky and managed to snag Grand Exalted Glove recipe for a relatively cheap 4 million. The Grand Shoulder recipe peaked at about 80 million. Take a moment to look through the Grand recipes tab whenever searching the AH for a chance to snag one of these if you can.
The final investment is actually producing these items. There is a crafting cost of about ~40-60k and inferno crafting materials. After a week, these inferno crafting materials are relatively affordable and it is usually better to just buy them on the AH for yourself than to spend time farming and salvaging for what you need. Crafting a gloves, bracers or shoulders is about 110-150k so even if you don't get the best modifiers try to at least sell it for this price (with the 15% AH fee in mind) so you can make another. The jackpot is when you get the "magic" combination of affixes that will let you produce a whole nother round of items (depending on how many free slots you have on your AH que).
This practice of crafting and reselling 5-6 affix high tier Exalted items is not generally viable unless you are in Late Hell-Inferno and have easy access to funds for the initial startup. Alternatively if you have been saving money for quite some time and can max out the blacksmith the process can be started earlier.
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Well I guess that was money badly spent :|
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United States47024 Posts
On May 23 2012 19:23 RuskiPanda wrote:
Inferno demon hunter here with maxed crafting (sorry for the wall of text, its useful I promise!) ; ultimately the blacksmith is an end game tool to make money. No point in crafting gear for your low level alts when you can get much better equipment for cheaper on the AH at this point.
Where the real fun comes in is the "Exalted fine" (5 random affixes) and "Exalted grand" (6 random affixes) recipes for specifically Bracers, Shoulders and Gloves. Legs, Boots and Helmets are also quite good but can be found in loot with generally good stats whereas the former are hard to find with good affixes.
Started off crafting shoulders/bracers until I got the "magic" combination of str/vit, dex/vit or int/vit with Magic Find/All Resist affixes. This combination of affixes is very desirable on the AH right now and can easily sell for hundreds of thousands to millions. Gloves can also come with attack speed and Critical modifiers (also very desirable).
There is an initial investment of either finding or simply purchasing the recipes for these items as the base maxed blacksmith only has regular exalted items. Most of the "Fine Exalted" recipes are on the market right now ranging from 200k-800k depending on the item crafted. The "Grand Exalted" recipes are a different beast and rarely surface on the market. I was lucky and managed to snag Grand Exalted Glove recipe for a relatively cheap 4 million. The Grand Shoulder recipe peaked at about 80 million. Take a moment to look through the Grand recipes tab whenever searching the AH for a chance to snag one of these if you can.
The final investment is actually producing these items. There is a crafting cost of about ~40-60k and inferno crafting materials. After a week, these inferno crafting materials are relatively affordable and it is usually better to just buy them on the AH for yourself than to spend time farming and salvaging for what you need. Crafting a gloves, bracers or shoulders is about 110-150k so even if you don't get the best modifiers try to at least sell it for this price (with the 15% AH fee in mind) so you can make another. The jackpot is when you get the "magic" combination of affixes that will let you produce a whole nother round of items (depending on how many free slots you have on your AH que).
This practice of crafting and reselling 5-6 affix high tier Exalted items is not generally viable unless you are in Late Hell-Inferno and have easy access to funds for the initial startup. Alternatively if you have been saving money for quite some time and can max out the blacksmith the process can be started earlier.
This matches my general intuition about Blacksmithing from the beginning (that it's not really viable low-level, but the high demand and low availability of those hard-to-get rare plans would make it viable if you got your hands on one). Thanks for sharing your experiences.
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i did blacksmith for the achievement, retarded reason but well....i didnt find it rewarding in any way ^^
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On May 22 2012 15:09 Velocirapture wrote:
The yime when i have loved my blacksmith is when making a new character. Having a steady supply of gear that is on point with level req makes the game way more fun to redo.
Or you could spend 3000g on Auction House rares every 5-10 levels, which is massively cheaper than leveling BS, not to mention the materials cost of crafting random gear.
I mean if you have fun with the crafting that's fine, but it's the furthest thing from optimal or convenient.
Full back pack come to town sell whites
Whites vendor for like 3 gold. They're not worth picking up.
I understand your impulses, I had the same ones. Sell whites, salvage blues, drool at yellows and put them in the stash for an alt. But if you look at the numbers it doesn't make any sense to do this.
I started a new alt on a different region and just stopped picking up whites, vendored all blues/rares that weren't usable, and bought gear off AH. By level 20 I had over 30k gold and I was in fully gemmed rares, one shotting everything.
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EPT
