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On May 21 2012 23:20 TheSkEncrypt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:14 Silidons wrote:On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
Says people QQ, then says you can hit 10k+ DPS with 57k HP. I'm sorry, your gear is pretty fucking good for that, and we're not complaining about that. We're complaining that every other class can have WAY shittier gear and have an easier time in inferno. Well for starters its 54k hp  and also how do you think I got my gear? By farming inferno..
I'm sure you got every single piece farming inferno solo. Again, reread what I said.
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On May 21 2012 23:14 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
Says people QQ, then says you can hit 10k+ DPS with 57k HP. I'm sorry, your gear is pretty fucking good for that, and we're not complaining about that. We're complaining that every other class can have WAY shittier gear and have an easier time in inferno.
in inferno all the drops are ridiculously good
like imagine the best drops you've ever gotten in hell and that's an average drop
you double or triple your dps by the end of act 1
anyways none of the classes can get away with shitty gear in inferno lol
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On May 21 2012 23:26 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:20 TheSkEncrypt wrote:On May 21 2012 23:14 Silidons wrote:On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
Says people QQ, then says you can hit 10k+ DPS with 57k HP. I'm sorry, your gear is pretty fucking good for that, and we're not complaining about that. We're complaining that every other class can have WAY shittier gear and have an easier time in inferno. Well for starters its 54k hp and also how do you think I got my gear? By farming inferno.. I'm sure you got every single piece farming inferno solo. Again, reread what I said.
well the main defining pieces of my gain (the best items) were found by me SOLO in inferno, and me finding these items is archived on my stream.. but yeah I won't argue that we aren't gear dependant because we are the most gear dependent class as far as I have seen.
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On May 21 2012 23:25 Dead9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:18 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 23:09 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:01 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 21:02 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 02:38 Serejai wrote:
For anyone curious about weapons, it seems that 1H+Shield actually does more DPS than a 2H or 1H+1H does at higher levels.
For example, here are the best legendary items for Barb weapons:
2H Fury of the Vanished Peak
761 DPS
+133 STR
1H Blade of the Warlord
693 DPS
+169 STR
Shield Stormshield
0 DPS
+169 STR
As far as raw DPS goes the 2H is better. However, once you factor in the STR on the items (1 STR = 1% DMG) the numbers end up as follows:
2H - 1,773 DPS
1H+Shield - 3,035 DPS
Once you factor in the faster attack speed (more life leech) and the defensive abilities of the shield... I don't see why anyone would ever choose a 2-hander or dual weild. fury of the vanished peak also gives 40% more damage which isn't factored into the raw weapon dps and anyways raw damage is a lot harder to get than +str, you already have some base str and probably some extra str from armor, but raw damage is very heavily concentrated on the weapon Here's a quick comparison with a full gear set of Legendary items (all items having max possible STR based on known modifiers): Helm: 149 Pauldrons: 111 Torso: 169 Wrists: 169 Hands: 111 Waist: 169 Legs: 169 Feet: 169 Amulet: 149 Rings: 149 x2 (298) Total: 1,663 2H Total: 1,796 1H+Shield Total: 2,001 2H Total DPS: 14,428 1H+Shield Total DPS: 14,559 The more STR you have, the more the gap closes (and eventually 2H would pull out on top). But even then the difference between the two is negligible and not worth trading the Block that a shield gives you. Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. Increased Attack Speed would make 2H slighty better as well, but not by a noticeable amount. Meanwhile, stats like +elemental damage, +damage per hit, +life per hit... basically anything that's flat and based on swing would increase the value of 1H+Shield. It's very likely that between the difficulty of Inferno for Barbarians and the lack of a noticeable DPS difference between 2H and 1H+Shield there won't be much reason, if any, to use a 2Hander before the first expansion comes out (in which case 2H should pull ahead significantly). The internal item levels simply aren't high enough at the moment to provide much of a difference. again, the 40% damage isn't accounted for in the item listings either way 1h+shield is probably better but 2hs do a decent amount more damage The 40% damage bonus is indeed counted. As I mentioned here: Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. You don't get to add an additional 40%. Weapon DPS already accounts for all of this. it's not accounted for, go do the math lol neither is attackspeed btw
I don't think you understand the difference between Damage and DPS...
DPS accounts for all damage modifiers on the weapon, including the attack speed of the weapon. Raw damage does not. In fact, I'm not entirely sure why you think the DPS value of a weapon would not include attack speed seeing as the definition of DPS is "Damage per Second", which requires knowing the attack speed to get in the first place.
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On May 21 2012 23:41 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:25 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:18 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 23:09 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:01 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 21:02 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 02:38 Serejai wrote:
For anyone curious about weapons, it seems that 1H+Shield actually does more DPS than a 2H or 1H+1H does at higher levels.
For example, here are the best legendary items for Barb weapons:
2H Fury of the Vanished Peak
761 DPS
+133 STR
1H Blade of the Warlord
693 DPS
+169 STR
Shield Stormshield
0 DPS
+169 STR
As far as raw DPS goes the 2H is better. However, once you factor in the STR on the items (1 STR = 1% DMG) the numbers end up as follows:
2H - 1,773 DPS
1H+Shield - 3,035 DPS
Once you factor in the faster attack speed (more life leech) and the defensive abilities of the shield... I don't see why anyone would ever choose a 2-hander or dual weild. fury of the vanished peak also gives 40% more damage which isn't factored into the raw weapon dps and anyways raw damage is a lot harder to get than +str, you already have some base str and probably some extra str from armor, but raw damage is very heavily concentrated on the weapon Here's a quick comparison with a full gear set of Legendary items (all items having max possible STR based on known modifiers): Helm: 149 Pauldrons: 111 Torso: 169 Wrists: 169 Hands: 111 Waist: 169 Legs: 169 Feet: 169 Amulet: 149 Rings: 149 x2 (298) Total: 1,663 2H Total: 1,796 1H+Shield Total: 2,001 2H Total DPS: 14,428 1H+Shield Total DPS: 14,559 The more STR you have, the more the gap closes (and eventually 2H would pull out on top). But even then the difference between the two is negligible and not worth trading the Block that a shield gives you. Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. Increased Attack Speed would make 2H slighty better as well, but not by a noticeable amount. Meanwhile, stats like +elemental damage, +damage per hit, +life per hit... basically anything that's flat and based on swing would increase the value of 1H+Shield. It's very likely that between the difficulty of Inferno for Barbarians and the lack of a noticeable DPS difference between 2H and 1H+Shield there won't be much reason, if any, to use a 2Hander before the first expansion comes out (in which case 2H should pull ahead significantly). The internal item levels simply aren't high enough at the moment to provide much of a difference. again, the 40% damage isn't accounted for in the item listings either way 1h+shield is probably better but 2hs do a decent amount more damage The 40% damage bonus is indeed counted. As I mentioned here: Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. You don't get to add an additional 40%. Weapon DPS already accounts for all of this. it's not accounted for, go do the math lol neither is attackspeed btw I don't think you understand the difference between Damage and DPS... DPS accounts for all damage modifiers on the weapon, including the attack speed of the weapon. Raw damage does not. In fact, I'm not entirely sure why you think the DPS value of a weapon would not include attack speed seeing as the definition of DPS is "Damage per Second", which requires knowing the attack speed to get in the first place.
i know exactly what dps means
look can you just go to here and do some math
attackspeed and +% damage aren't accounted for
edit: btw i'm fairly certain stuff like that isn't accounted for is because it can be affected by other portions of your armor
for example you can have +damage on a ring, which would increase the effect of +%damage and +AS
or you could have +attackspeed on a glove, which would reduce the effect of attackspeed on a weapon with +AS
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On May 21 2012 23:44 Dead9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:41 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 23:25 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:18 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 23:09 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:01 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 21:02 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 02:38 Serejai wrote:
For anyone curious about weapons, it seems that 1H+Shield actually does more DPS than a 2H or 1H+1H does at higher levels.
For example, here are the best legendary items for Barb weapons:
2H Fury of the Vanished Peak
761 DPS
+133 STR
1H Blade of the Warlord
693 DPS
+169 STR
Shield Stormshield
0 DPS
+169 STR
As far as raw DPS goes the 2H is better. However, once you factor in the STR on the items (1 STR = 1% DMG) the numbers end up as follows:
2H - 1,773 DPS
1H+Shield - 3,035 DPS
Once you factor in the faster attack speed (more life leech) and the defensive abilities of the shield... I don't see why anyone would ever choose a 2-hander or dual weild. fury of the vanished peak also gives 40% more damage which isn't factored into the raw weapon dps and anyways raw damage is a lot harder to get than +str, you already have some base str and probably some extra str from armor, but raw damage is very heavily concentrated on the weapon Here's a quick comparison with a full gear set of Legendary items (all items having max possible STR based on known modifiers): Helm: 149 Pauldrons: 111 Torso: 169 Wrists: 169 Hands: 111 Waist: 169 Legs: 169 Feet: 169 Amulet: 149 Rings: 149 x2 (298) Total: 1,663 2H Total: 1,796 1H+Shield Total: 2,001 2H Total DPS: 14,428 1H+Shield Total DPS: 14,559 The more STR you have, the more the gap closes (and eventually 2H would pull out on top). But even then the difference between the two is negligible and not worth trading the Block that a shield gives you. Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. Increased Attack Speed would make 2H slighty better as well, but not by a noticeable amount. Meanwhile, stats like +elemental damage, +damage per hit, +life per hit... basically anything that's flat and based on swing would increase the value of 1H+Shield. It's very likely that between the difficulty of Inferno for Barbarians and the lack of a noticeable DPS difference between 2H and 1H+Shield there won't be much reason, if any, to use a 2Hander before the first expansion comes out (in which case 2H should pull ahead significantly). The internal item levels simply aren't high enough at the moment to provide much of a difference. again, the 40% damage isn't accounted for in the item listings either way 1h+shield is probably better but 2hs do a decent amount more damage The 40% damage bonus is indeed counted. As I mentioned here: Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. You don't get to add an additional 40%. Weapon DPS already accounts for all of this. it's not accounted for, go do the math lol neither is attackspeed btw I don't think you understand the difference between Damage and DPS... DPS accounts for all damage modifiers on the weapon, including the attack speed of the weapon. Raw damage does not. In fact, I'm not entirely sure why you think the DPS value of a weapon would not include attack speed seeing as the definition of DPS is "Damage per Second", which requires knowing the attack speed to get in the first place. i know exactly what dps means look can you just go to here and do some math attackspeed and +% damage aren't accounted for edit: btw i'm fairly certain stuff like that isn't accounted for is because it can be affected by other portions of your armor for example you can have +damage on a ring, which would increase the effect of +%damage and +AS or you could have +attackspeed on a glove, which would reduce the effect of attackspeed on a weapon with +AS
Having +damage on rings, for example, will not change your weapon's displayed DPS value one bit. It will change your character DPS. Your weapon DPS includes, coincidentally, stats on your weapon. The Weapon DPS value is there to tell you what your weapon can do without any other gear. If your Weapon DPS is 100 and you add two +10 Damage rings... your Weapon DPS is still 100. Your Character DPS, however, will increase, but the tooltip of the weapon will NOT update.
There's a reason why every single damage calculator and wiki out there accounts for Attack Speed and +Damage. If you feel that myself and basically every other theorycrafter out there is wrong then I would highly recommend making some threads on the official forums to explain your more accurate formulas.
Weapon DPS is static and is not the same thing as your character's DPS.
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On May 22 2012 00:05 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:44 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:41 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 23:25 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:18 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 23:09 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 23:01 Serejai wrote:On May 21 2012 21:02 Dead9 wrote:On May 21 2012 02:38 Serejai wrote:
For anyone curious about weapons, it seems that 1H+Shield actually does more DPS than a 2H or 1H+1H does at higher levels.
For example, here are the best legendary items for Barb weapons:
2H Fury of the Vanished Peak
761 DPS
+133 STR
1H Blade of the Warlord
693 DPS
+169 STR
Shield Stormshield
0 DPS
+169 STR
As far as raw DPS goes the 2H is better. However, once you factor in the STR on the items (1 STR = 1% DMG) the numbers end up as follows:
2H - 1,773 DPS
1H+Shield - 3,035 DPS
Once you factor in the faster attack speed (more life leech) and the defensive abilities of the shield... I don't see why anyone would ever choose a 2-hander or dual weild. fury of the vanished peak also gives 40% more damage which isn't factored into the raw weapon dps and anyways raw damage is a lot harder to get than +str, you already have some base str and probably some extra str from armor, but raw damage is very heavily concentrated on the weapon Here's a quick comparison with a full gear set of Legendary items (all items having max possible STR based on known modifiers): Helm: 149 Pauldrons: 111 Torso: 169 Wrists: 169 Hands: 111 Waist: 169 Legs: 169 Feet: 169 Amulet: 149 Rings: 149 x2 (298) Total: 1,663 2H Total: 1,796 1H+Shield Total: 2,001 2H Total DPS: 14,428 1H+Shield Total DPS: 14,559 The more STR you have, the more the gap closes (and eventually 2H would pull out on top). But even then the difference between the two is negligible and not worth trading the Block that a shield gives you. Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. Increased Attack Speed would make 2H slighty better as well, but not by a noticeable amount. Meanwhile, stats like +elemental damage, +damage per hit, +life per hit... basically anything that's flat and based on swing would increase the value of 1H+Shield. It's very likely that between the difficulty of Inferno for Barbarians and the lack of a noticeable DPS difference between 2H and 1H+Shield there won't be much reason, if any, to use a 2Hander before the first expansion comes out (in which case 2H should pull ahead significantly). The internal item levels simply aren't high enough at the moment to provide much of a difference. again, the 40% damage isn't accounted for in the item listings either way 1h+shield is probably better but 2hs do a decent amount more damage The 40% damage bonus is indeed counted. As I mentioned here: Also, that +40% damage is already factored in to the DPS of Fury of the Vanished Peak. Weapon DPS shown accounts for all increased damage modifiers, including attack speed, elemental bonus damage, and enhanced damage so you don't get an extra 40% on top of the listed DPS. You don't get to add an additional 40%. Weapon DPS already accounts for all of this. it's not accounted for, go do the math lol neither is attackspeed btw I don't think you understand the difference between Damage and DPS... DPS accounts for all damage modifiers on the weapon, including the attack speed of the weapon. Raw damage does not. In fact, I'm not entirely sure why you think the DPS value of a weapon would not include attack speed seeing as the definition of DPS is "Damage per Second", which requires knowing the attack speed to get in the first place. i know exactly what dps means look can you just go to here and do some math attackspeed and +% damage aren't accounted for edit: btw i'm fairly certain stuff like that isn't accounted for is because it can be affected by other portions of your armor for example you can have +damage on a ring, which would increase the effect of +%damage and +AS or you could have +attackspeed on a glove, which would reduce the effect of attackspeed on a weapon with +AS Having +damage on rings, for example, will not change your weapon's displayed DPS value one bit. It will change your character DPS. Your weapon DPS includes, coincidentally, stats on your weapon. The Weapon DPS value is there to tell you what your weapon can do without any other gear. If your Weapon DPS is 100 and you add two +10 Damage rings... your Weapon DPS is still 100. Your Character DPS, however, will increase, but the tooltip of the weapon will NOT update. There's a reason why every single damage calculator and wiki out there accounts for Attack Speed and +Damage. If you feel that myself and basically every other theorycrafter out there is wrong then I would highly recommend making some threads on the official forums to explain your more accurate formulas. Weapon DPS is static and is not the same thing as your character's DPS.
sigh you didn't understand me at all
the listed weapon dps really, really, really doesn't count +% damage and AS
your CHARACTER dps depends on those modifiers but the LISTED WEAPON DPS does not account for +% damage or AS
i don't know how i can make this more clear to you
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On May 22 2012 00:14 Dead9 wrote:
your CHARACTER dps depends on those modifiers but the LISTED WEAPON DPS does not account for +% damage or AS
i don't know how i can make this more clear to you
Weapon DPS (the one shown in tooltip) accounts for any %increased attackspeed on that weapon.
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this is really dumb
can u please not post if u have no idea what you're talking about
+ Show Spoiler +
tell me, what is (140+243)/2 * 1.38 ?
edit: while i'm at it why not
+ Show Spoiler +
what's (210+434)/2 * 1.4 ?
here's a million and one items if u wanna do more math http://forums.d2jsp.org/forum.php?f=153&t=0
can you please check ur shit before u post it
or at least check it after someone corrects u?
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On May 22 2012 00:28 Dead9 wrote:this is really dumb can u please not post if u have no idea what you're talking about + Show Spoiler +tell me, what is (140+243)/2 * 1.38 ? edit: while i'm at it why not + Show Spoiler +what's (210+434)/2 * 1.4 ? here's a million and one items if u wanna do more math http://forums.d2jsp.org/forum.php?f=153&t=0can you please check ur shit before u post it or at least check it after someone corrects u?
The attack speed of the weapon is 1.2.
It has a +15% attack speed modifier which changes the attack speed to 1.38.
The DPS uses the 1.38 attack speed for its calculation.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 21 2012 22:27 nOondn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
For example, you can go through Normal and Nightmare pretty easily just facerolling everything with bad builds and you'll get no repurcussions but as you get to Hell the difficulty takes a pretty big leap when compared to Nightmare and then when you finally get to Inferno the difficulty gap is so huge it's unreal.
Even comparing Act 1 inferno to Act 2 inferno is crazy. I soloed the whole of Act 1 inferno (while streaming) whilst there was no other people doing it with a barb (afaik) and the only reason I streamed it was to show people how I play barb and my build etc. because all I seemed to see on the official forums and everywhere else was people crying about not being able to solo and being forced into a stun/cc bot kind of role in group play.
I would post the link to my stream so people can see the archived videos but I'm not too sure on the rules here so I won't for now. Now back to the difficulty curve subject, because a lot of people have been able to pretty much just steam roll everything they are going into hell & inferno with no real "caution" I suppose (couldn't think of a better word). People think they can just jump into a pack of mobs and start aoeing and not die, people haven't been taught to properly kite and dps at the same time as a barb due to the previous difficulties being so easy (I know this because I spent a lot of time before soloing A1 inferno dying).
Also a huge factor is gear, you need decent damage as well as good HP. You can't just choose one or the other or else:
1. Too much DMG, not enough HP = dead in seconds.
2. Too much HP, not enough DMG = elite packs enraging and dying slower but eventually still.
I know this sounds like common sense to have a good balance but a lot of people don't really seem to be getting it, on my barb I switch a lot between a 2H and 1H, Shield. with my 1H, Shield combo I can hit about 54k hp while still having about 12k dmg and then with my 2H I can hit around 22k+ damage (IIRC) while having 35k HP, I was actually able to hit 59K damage on my inventory tab fully buffed while fighting butcher on inferno (protip: if you take too long to kill him on Inferno the room eventually pretty much fills up with fire and you will die). So I like to switch between these a lot depending on the situations.
Lastly, people are afraid to experiment, a lot of people are expecting to be spoonfed builds, information etc. and the game has only been out for not even a week, at this stage in the game people need to be experimenting with every skill and every rune to find that perfect build for their setup because what works for one person might not work for another due to resistances, HP, armor and all that other good stuff.
That's about all I can think of, I probably made some mistakes somewhere because I'm pretty tired, haven't been to bed but yeah! II would love to see your stream ,can you pm me a link ?
I'm fairly certain posting your stream link here would be fine, as it's pretty relevant to the discussion.
On May 21 2012 23:14 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
Says people QQ, then says you can hit 10k+ DPS with 57k HP. I'm sorry, your gear is pretty fucking good for that, and we're not complaining about that. We're complaining that every other class can have WAY shittier gear and have an easier time in inferno.
There's still an enormous fucking difference between "most gear dependent" (which is true, I don't think anyone else is arguing that) and "unplayable" (which is what a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion to be).
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On May 22 2012 00:58 dottycakes wrote:The attack speed of the weapon is 1.2. It has a +15% attack speed modifier which changes the attack speed to 1.38. The DPS uses the 1.38 attack speed for its calculation.
okay fuck im retarded that makes way more sense
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On May 22 2012 01:04 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 22:27 nOondn wrote:On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
For example, you can go through Normal and Nightmare pretty easily just facerolling everything with bad builds and you'll get no repurcussions but as you get to Hell the difficulty takes a pretty big leap when compared to Nightmare and then when you finally get to Inferno the difficulty gap is so huge it's unreal.
Even comparing Act 1 inferno to Act 2 inferno is crazy. I soloed the whole of Act 1 inferno (while streaming) whilst there was no other people doing it with a barb (afaik) and the only reason I streamed it was to show people how I play barb and my build etc. because all I seemed to see on the official forums and everywhere else was people crying about not being able to solo and being forced into a stun/cc bot kind of role in group play.
I would post the link to my stream so people can see the archived videos but I'm not too sure on the rules here so I won't for now. Now back to the difficulty curve subject, because a lot of people have been able to pretty much just steam roll everything they are going into hell & inferno with no real "caution" I suppose (couldn't think of a better word). People think they can just jump into a pack of mobs and start aoeing and not die, people haven't been taught to properly kite and dps at the same time as a barb due to the previous difficulties being so easy (I know this because I spent a lot of time before soloing A1 inferno dying).
Also a huge factor is gear, you need decent damage as well as good HP. You can't just choose one or the other or else:
1. Too much DMG, not enough HP = dead in seconds.
2. Too much HP, not enough DMG = elite packs enraging and dying slower but eventually still.
I know this sounds like common sense to have a good balance but a lot of people don't really seem to be getting it, on my barb I switch a lot between a 2H and 1H, Shield. with my 1H, Shield combo I can hit about 54k hp while still having about 12k dmg and then with my 2H I can hit around 22k+ damage (IIRC) while having 35k HP, I was actually able to hit 59K damage on my inventory tab fully buffed while fighting butcher on inferno (protip: if you take too long to kill him on Inferno the room eventually pretty much fills up with fire and you will die). So I like to switch between these a lot depending on the situations.
Lastly, people are afraid to experiment, a lot of people are expecting to be spoonfed builds, information etc. and the game has only been out for not even a week, at this stage in the game people need to be experimenting with every skill and every rune to find that perfect build for their setup because what works for one person might not work for another due to resistances, HP, armor and all that other good stuff.
That's about all I can think of, I probably made some mistakes somewhere because I'm pretty tired, haven't been to bed but yeah! II would love to see your stream ,can you pm me a link ? I'm fairly certain posting your stream link here would be fine, as it's pretty relevant to the discussion. Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 23:14 Silidons wrote:On May 21 2012 21:36 TheSkEncrypt wrote:
I've seen a lot of people QQ on the official forums and all other sorts of places about Barbs being underpowered etc. but to be honest I think the majority of people just don't know how to play the class, this is partly due to the difficulty curve that exists in the game (in my opinion).
Says people QQ, then says you can hit 10k+ DPS with 57k HP. I'm sorry, your gear is pretty fucking good for that, and we're not complaining about that. We're complaining that every other class can have WAY shittier gear and have an easier time in inferno. There's still an enormous fucking difference between "most gear dependent" (which is true, I don't think anyone else is arguing that) and "unplayable" (which is what a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion to be).
Ok no problem! Well I've streamed a lot of hours since D3 has came out so I've just filtered out the two butcher kills for you guys, the rest is pretty much just me farming champions in A1 and leveling a wizard:
http://www.twitch.tv/theskencrypt/b/318572236 - my first inferno solo butcher kill - 5:21:20
http://www.twitch.tv/theskencrypt/b/318691250 - my 59K Peak DPS butcher kill - 48:15
I'm going to bed now but I will be streaming later for anyone whos interested!
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United States47024 Posts
On May 22 2012 01:15 PizzaParty wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't like the Revenge skill ? I hate to have to look at my skill bar every second or to spam a key all the time. I'm using this build in act 2 as nightmare level 42 with a 2-hander and just breezing trough. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#beSYiP!aZb!ZZbZaa
Revenge is godly. I don't even really like the skill, but it contributes so damn much on Hell to both your survivability and damage.
I played up through most of Nightmare without having Revenge, but seriously, when you're tanking Rare packs in Hell, there's absolutely no comparison to Revenge. I wouldn't give up Revenge for anything at this point--not because I like the skill, because I seriously don't think Barb would be able to do anything without Revenge.
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Barb is severely underpowered at the moment, and requires way more gear than you ever would to sustain in Hell Diablo 2. Problem is you have to build very specifically towards tanky and you need a shit ton of godly gear just to survive in Act 1, let alone past Acts 2/3/4. Monk/Wizard/DH need far less gear and can solo way more effectively and farther, without having to die (Monk/Wizard) or clear way faster (DH).
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United States47024 Posts
On May 22 2012 01:25 superstartran wrote:
Barb is severely underpowered at the moment, and requires way more gear than you ever would to sustain in Hell Diablo 2. Problem is you have to build very specifically towards tanky and you need a shit ton of godly gear just to survive in Act 1, let alone past Acts 2/3/4. Monk/Wizard/DH need far less gear and can solo way more effectively and farther, without having to die (Monk/Wizard) or clear way faster (DH).
Again, please don't post in this thread if you're not going to contribute anything other than a long-winded version of "barb sucks".
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Tired of people complaining and attacking each other over little things. People are so trendy in everything! 
Play the game and have fun and learn new things! BARBARIAN COMMUNITY!
As everyone said, Normal and Nightmare are jokes, they're just there to warm you up, so to speak. Hell has an interested difficulty curve as it varies from "Man, I'm awesome at this game!111!shift" to "I want my GODDAMN money back."
I played most of my Barbarian either solo or duo, but after many, many frustrating deaths I finally am leaning on this build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WSXYVk!beV!YcaZcc
Gives me stuns, the healing returns to sit in bad shit when I'm stuck (sup wallers and retarded fear into purple lasers of badness, or frozen descration or 90% of everything else) and the mobility to get the hell out to fix positioning.
As the other guy was basically saying, everything is situational. If you need more damage, swap things. If you need to live more or survive some retarded bursty combo, use Ignore Pain or something.
I'm almost to Inferno, so I'll soon reach this mythical "wall".
Seeing so many people complain about weaker or stronger classes in a loot based game, that has nothing else to do with balance as there's no PvP yet, or any way of actively comparing classes except going "what r ur stats?", "cool u can solo that?" It's been... week 1 of retail release, chill.
And finally, let's be real. This is a Blizzard game. Why is this a surprise to anyone, it's how they keep people interested.
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EPT
