|
this is nothing new.
This is an exploit, to be straightforward.
the problem is, each skill acts like a projectile.
they are fired from the getgo, and are still in action and if you press esc and attack (rightclick) you dont have to wait till the projectile time is done.
This typical exploit is best demonstrated in EdenEternal, I have already mastered this technique.
with this technique I was able to hit 10 times while other ppl hit me 5.
sad to see Diablo 3 has such exploitable engine and skill system. They should've made skill do damage overtime while casting skill so you cannot cancle and still do full damage. which is what you call "projectile-like" system skill.
|
Well, all that animation cancelling in DotA is going to be useful here apparently! 
|
animation cancelling has been in games for years, it's a huge part of making a game feel "responsive" and not sluggish, and very hard to avoid having it in your game.
|
On October 04 2011 19:19 mordk wrote:Well, all that animation cancelling in DotA is going to be useful here apparently!
my thoughts exactly
|
nice SF calling
|
nice, this means that PvP requires more technical skill now
|
This remind me of a game "Cabal Online" i used to play in Warrior class and Force Blader class you can do exact same technique to increase dps by cancelling animation.
i hope blizzard doesn't change this and keep it in the game. Just hope blizzard don't make the same mistake Gunz developer did.
|
I'm curious how this will/can change effective builds. It seems like the best move is to have 2 attacks to alternate between more-so than 1 main attack with a bunch of situational skills supporting it.
|
Amazing find, and an awesome featured if it was to stay.
However I think blizzard will nerf this according to their "our new games are no brainers" policy.
|
On October 04 2011 23:26 Xkalibert wrote:
This remind me of a game "Cabal Online" i used to play in Warrior class and Force Blader class you can do exact same technique to increase dps by cancelling animation.
i hope blizzard doesn't change this and keep it in the game. Just hope blizzard don't make the same mistake Gunz developer did.
lol you played cabal?
I played too, I was #1 magic force shielder =)
one of the first in server with full magic amp +8 i think
\
|
On October 04 2011 16:32 strikerz200 wrote:
this is nothing new.
This is an exploit, to be straightforward.
the problem is, each skill acts like a projectile.
they are fired from the getgo, and are still in action and if you press esc and attack (rightclick) you dont have to wait till the projectile time is done.
This typical exploit is best demonstrated in EdenEternal, I have already mastered this technique.
with this technique I was able to hit 10 times while other ppl hit me 5.
sad to see Diablo 3 has such exploitable engine and skill system. They should've made skill do damage overtime while casting skill so you cannot cancle and still do full damage. which is what you call "projectile-like" system skill.
No, this is wrong.
They are not fired from the getgo. If you cancel an attack prior to the actual damage, or "Active" phase, it will not follow through.
It does depend on the attack though. Some attacks come out instantly, and some come out late. Try it with the Witch Doctor's Firebomb and see.
On October 04 2011 19:19 mordk wrote:
Well, all that animation cancelling in DotA is going to be useful here apparently!
This is different than DOTA Animation Cancelling. In DOTA, it didn't increase your attack speed. The game allowed you to initiate a different action once the Active phase of the attack had finished. You could cancel the recovery animation with a move command.
This is different in that you can cancel at any time with another attack. It "Resets the Swing Timer" as some moves in League of Legends do.
The fact is though, I did find this when trying to do DOTA style animation cancelling with the Witch Doctor's Firebomb. He is so slow in throwing the damn thing that I wanted to speed it up somehow.
I'll be updating the original post with some good uses of the trick.
|
On October 05 2011 01:52 Phunkapotamus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 19:19 mordk wrote:
Well, all that animation cancelling in DotA is going to be useful here apparently!
This is different than DOTA Animation Cancelling. In DOTA, it didn't increase your attack speed. The game allowed you to initiate a different action once the Active phase of the attack had finished. You could cancel the recovery animation with a move command. This is different in that you can cancel at any time with another attack. It "Resets the Swing Timer" as some moves in League of Legends do. The fact is though, I did find this when trying to do DOTA style animation cancelling with the Witch Doctor's Firebomb. He is so slow in throwing the damn thing that I wanted to speed it up somehow. I'll be updating the original post with some good uses of the trick.
It's very similar to orb walking though which DOES increase your attack speed (to a certain point).
|
Nice find, I love these things. Hope it turns out to be a feature.
|
On October 05 2011 02:18 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:52 Phunkapotamus wrote:On October 04 2011 19:19 mordk wrote:
Well, all that animation cancelling in DotA is going to be useful here apparently!
This is different than DOTA Animation Cancelling. In DOTA, it didn't increase your attack speed. The game allowed you to initiate a different action once the Active phase of the attack had finished. You could cancel the recovery animation with a move command. This is different in that you can cancel at any time with another attack. It "Resets the Swing Timer" as some moves in League of Legends do. The fact is though, I did find this when trying to do DOTA style animation cancelling with the Witch Doctor's Firebomb. He is so slow in throwing the damn thing that I wanted to speed it up somehow. I'll be updating the original post with some good uses of the trick. It's very similar to orb walking though which DOES increase your attack speed (to a certain point).
Animation Cancelling in DOTA doesn't actually reduce the cooldown (swing timer) of the move itself. You're cancelling the Recovery into another action, which makes it seem faster simply because you're doing more things.
Orb walking however, is a different story. Since Orbs are treated as spells they would allow you to cancel into them. You could only cancel into Orbs from actions other than the Orb itself. Therefore Orb->Walk->Orb worked, which is essentially 2 cancels. Cancel Orb's Recovery with a walk, then cancel the walk with another Orb.
D3's animation cancelling is no better than League of Legends "swing timer reset" moves. Things like.
Ezreal's Q
Talon's Q
Nasus' Q
I'd like it if the recovery phase were to be cancelled by walk actions  Still good though!
|
I really wanna see Grenades -> Multishot for the demon hunter for PvE minion killing.
With the Yellow rune in grenades it'll generate 24 hatred/shot while multishot can do 300% weapon damage for 30 hatred/shot (or you could use the rocket passive + rocket rune). That rotation, assuming you can make up the extra 6 hatred/shot (which should be doable with other abilities), should be pretty deadly. Then just grab something like impale for bosses and defensive abilities and you're good to go (or maybe multi-shot with rune is good enough for bosses).
|
This is most likely a bug and should be fixed. It's not really a cancel trick if you skill cancel is fired and do what it's supposed to do.
It looks like some kind of spam of command thrown at the server by the client side that end up in the server side doing 2 skill instead of one at nearly the same time.
Let's say you issue a skill command, the client side give it to the server that says: Okay this character wants to cast X skill, for Y sec animation and he is doing nothing so let's tell the client side it's okay to do it and lock any command that use animation. While the server process the 1st command but hasn't lock the animation he get another command that he process as if the character is doing nothing.
It doesn't gives an edge for "skilled" player this would just encourage spamming for anyone that knows this glitch. Being able to fire 2 skill at a time is not a feature that should exist unless it's something designed ingame in a skill or class mechanics.
As a Wizard you can use a signature spell at the same time as an AP using spell.
With Golden Runestone on Electrocute and Prodigy you get 5 to 26 AP if you hit 3 targets, Golden Runestoned Storm Armor make Arcane Orb cost 28 AP. For any group with more than 2 monsters that's just free Arcane Orb without ever needing to refill in Arcane Power.
|
On October 05 2011 03:08 Iblis wrote:
This is most likely a bug and should be fixed. It's not really a cancel trick if you skill cancel is fired and do what it's supposed to do.
It looks like some kind of spam of command thrown at the server by the client side that end up in the server side doing 2 skill instead of one at nearly the same time.
Let's say you issue a skill command, the client side give it to the server that says: Okay this character wants to cast X skill, for Y sec animation and he is doing nothing so let's tell the client side it's okay to do it and lock any command that use animation. While the server process the 1st command but hasn't lock the animation he get another command that he process as if the character is doing nothing.
It doesn't gives an edge for "skilled" player this would just encourage spamming for anyone that knows this glitch. Being able to fire 2 skill at a time is not a feature that should exist unless it's something designed ingame in a skill or class mechanics.
As a Wizard you can use a signature spell at the same time as an AP using spell.
With Golden Runestone on Electrocute and Prodigy you get 5 to 26 AP if you hit 3 targets, Golden Runestoned Storm Armor make Arcane Orb cost 28 AP. For any group with more than 2 monsters that's just free Arcane Orb without ever needing to refill in Arcane Power.
The only thing animation canceling affects in your description is that a build where you have a good stable combo of 2 abilities is potentially more effective than a combo where you build up a bunch of resource then dump it on a single big ability. It's not even spamming, it's holding LMB + tapping another ability at opportune times.
The idea of getting free arcane orbs works even without animation canceling, it just has a different payout (dps).
If anything it seems like this helps make builds and characters more interesting as it's worthwhile to have more synergy in your builds rather than leaning on one strong skill that's spammable and a few skills that you can use in a pinch to dump your resources. So now you have a choice, do you rely on one strong skill with a bunch of supporting skills that dump resources OR do you build a synergy where you have a stronger spammable rotation, but less flexibility because you're using more skill slots for your general attack rotation.
Also for a game like D3 where you can die so fast (and HC mode) it's really nice to be able to cancel the recovery of attacks in some situations so you can take evasive/defensive actions.
|
On October 05 2011 03:08 Iblis wrote:
This is most likely a bug and should be fixed. It's not really a cancel trick if you skill cancel is fired and do what it's supposed to do.
It looks like some kind of spam of command thrown at the server by the client side that end up in the server side doing 2 skill instead of one at nearly the same time.
Let's say you issue a skill command, the client side give it to the server that says: Okay this character wants to cast X skill, for Y sec animation and he is doing nothing so let's tell the client side it's okay to do it and lock any command that use animation. While the server process the 1st command but hasn't lock the animation he get another command that he process as if the character is doing nothing.
It doesn't gives an edge for "skilled" player this would just encourage spamming for anyone that knows this glitch. Being able to fire 2 skill at a time is not a feature that should exist unless it's something designed ingame in a skill or class mechanics.
As a Wizard you can use a signature spell at the same time as an AP using spell.
With Golden Runestone on Electrocute and Prodigy you get 5 to 26 AP if you hit 3 targets, Golden Runestoned Storm Armor make Arcane Orb cost 28 AP. For any group with more than 2 monsters that's just free Arcane Orb without ever needing to refill in Arcane Power.
Combat states are handled client side in Diablo 3.
This has nothing to do with spamming. Perhaps you're referring to the latter parts the video where we display bugs related to the spellcasters? These are special cases. Please refer to the Barbarian, Monk, and Demon Hunter parts for skillful application.
It's obvious that this "bug" is a feature for most moves. IE: You want to cancel a Slow 2-Hander Cleave animation with Leap Attack to escape. Whether Blizzard intended for it to be used globally is unknown.
It clearly gives an edge. Look at the monk's movement.
All this does is speed up mechanics that already exist. You're not getting free Arcane Orbs. You're just doing two things faster than you would have normally.
It's also not two things for the price of one. There is a cost. You're bound by the Recovery phase of the second attack. You're weaving a second attack into the Active and Recovery phase of the first attack. Your recovery then becomes the second attack's recovery.
I'm not really sure why people are upset at this discovery. My intent was to have people rally behind this because it's freaking cool and should be in the game. It's not particularly game breaking or overpowered, it just raises the technical ceiling of the game slightly. As Team Liquiders- we should want Muta Stacking. We should want patrol-move Vultures. That shit makes the game more skillful and exciting.
|
Diablo Fighter III: Fight for the Future!
I have a feeling this will probably stick in the game. This kind of thing actually even existed way back in Warcraft 3. You could use your heroes much more efficiently if you issued another command right after they throw off a spell.
And when I was playing a wizard, I was definitely having loads of fun pretending I was a Starcraft 2 marine by doing magic missile stutter step! =D
|
On October 05 2011 03:56 Phunkapotamus wrote:
I'm not really sure why people are upset at this discovery. My intent was to have people rally behind this because it's freaking cool and should be in the game. It's not particularly game breaking or overpowered, it just raises the technical ceiling of the game slightly. As Team Liquiders- we should want Muta Stacking. We should want patrol-move Vultures. That shit makes the game more skillful and exciting.
I'm not sure why people are upset either. Bug or Feature, animation cancelling allows for a higher skill ceiling on play, smooth-looking skill combos. I think it's best to think of it as analogous to a fighting game, where this kind of behaviour is very common. Being able to eek more out of combat by using your skills in rhythm should be better than spamming!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
