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On February 18 2011 15:26 Char711 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 15:19 On_Slaught wrote:On February 18 2011 15:15 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:09 On_Slaught wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2011 15:04 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 14:41 ptbl wrote:
GOMTV has obviously dropped the ball when it comes to getting the viewers input. Really disappointed in the organization. This is really the important point. Complaining about GOM's decision isn't really productive. Criticizing the way they made their decision is. Lately there's been a pattern of GOM making decisions that are unpopular, and have no real rational explanation. This is a lot like the selection of foreigners seeded in Code A. It seems like GOM is making haphazard decisions based on cost and expediency, instead of building a strong and consistent organization. It's as though they woke up the morning before their big exam and realized they never studied anything. People often say things like "This isn't bad for such short notice" or "They have to make some compromises in order to get someone quickly." That's fine for most situations, but GOM is running the world's largest esports tournament. This is supposed to be a serious organization, with serious sponsors, giving away serious money. It really seems pretty disorganized though. I really hope Kelly does well, but that doesn't mean picking her was a smart decision. GOM needs to wise up if they want to keep running the world's premier SC2 league. There are plenty of other organizations out there who would love to take their place. This post is REALLY unfair to gom considering they just did the best thing that has happened to the community since launch: use new maps. Yes this decision is questionable, but they had a process for selecting foreign players for Code A and they had a process for this (tho it seems meh). You make it sound like they keep fucking up when that simply isn't true. They have done a lot more good than bad. Hell, they just got Intel to sponsor them. In an ever more common trend of mine, I'll point out what was said in a recent State of the Game podcast by, I believe, iNcontroL. It was about Blizzard but still applies: we're getting all grateful for something they should do. It helps them make all this money and we're just sitting here saying "wow, that was so great of them! I LURV YOU!" It's not like major Korean SC tournaments hadn't broken the "new map barrier" before. This was incredibly expected and was just a matter of time, not some revelation. You make it sound like doing what works is bad. If i'm supposed to save a drowning kid and I do it, it doesn't diminish what I did just because I was supposed to, or that someone else did the same thing yesterday. This is an absurd argument. Gom is doing things right atm. I wish they would have gotten another caster but at least they did something rather then run Tasteless/Artosis to death with the constant casting. I'm sorry, my eyes might be deceiving me, but I think you just compared me talking about new maps to not saving a child from drowning. That's really appropriate. And, no, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that it's good but that it wasn't this amazing invention or anything. We knew it was going to happen. That doesn't completely cheapen that they did it, but it does mean that it isn't this awesome new thing like the foreigner house. I'm thinking that your argument is the more absurd, don't you?
You're using fallacious reasoning by attacking the content rather than the form. It wouldn't matter if I said I do X, while someone else does Y, etc. as long as the form remains true.
The fact remains is the GSL is doing everything right so far. We wanted new maps? They gave us some. We wanted more foreigners? There they are. Artosis/Tasteless wanted caster help? They got it.
Criticising Gom for doing what they are doing is very unfair since they are trying to make things work. It is fine to criticize the outcome (like picking Kelly) but don't act like they are making irational decisions in seeking these things out. People act like they want esports to fail or something. As if that isn't their job to maintain it or anything.
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I never really swallowed that whole lilsusie thing
god i loved her, she was awesome, not tedious at all, had nice insights, and used to bring a lot to the table for being korean
I miss her thrice as much now =\
also, giving my two cents here about gom's announcement:
- seems kelly'll be on some sort of probation
- gomtv is still looking for more people
- for the time being, she was the best they could get
I also agree that while a fair amount of casters might have applied, I think a very small percentage of them could ACTUALLY take the job.
Well, with all that said...
good luck, Kelly.
Hope you do well.
Criticism comes with the job. Ops, I meant comes with life 
While many, many of us said we dont like your casting skills/commentaries/accent, remember, it's not personal.
hope you respect us "trolls", for we are your viewers.
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"Her hobbies include dancing, reading, painting, travelling, and cooking."
"Travelling" is spelled with one "L" Btw, shouldn't it read Starcraft2 there somewhere?
Anyway I'll give her a benefit of a doubt and assume she actually speaks comprehensive English during the GSL. Goodluck to you Kelly!
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What happened to torch?
Is she going to cast alone, or will she have a translator for the English viewers?
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I'm pretty sure they had to resort to her because there was no one else available with such short notice, as they kind of hint on. It's a pretty big lifestyle change for someone. I am curious as to why torch isn't in it, he must've not wanted to do it. As long as the observer is good, i don't really care who casts the games.
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On February 18 2011 15:36 locJ wrote:
It 's gonna be so awesome seeing Artosis hit on her :D Imagine the awkwardness ...
On a more serious note, I'm actually getting pumpep. I truly believe this could work.
Artosis is the one with taste, though. Not to mention he already has a girlfriend.
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is it only me or is it hard to focus on what she is saying for non native speakers?
/e watched another cast and she seems to know literally nothing about starcraft, its like worse than the mistakes Husky makes casting a game. (e.g. being surprised after a Zerg pulles drones to repell a bunker rush the zerg defends it without losing a single drone kills 2 scvs a marine and she says something like " the zerg is very behind because he lost so much miningtime")
I hope her job is only to point out the obvious and there is a cocaster that knows actually whats going on.
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I just don't really understand how or why GOM thought it would be a good idea to bring KellyMILKIES on board. If you're trying to provide an English cast, wouldn't you prefer the caster to be able to articulate their words to where the vast majority of English speakers could easily understand? And have English as their first language? I mean if they were trying to promote a German cast I would assume that they would not want to hire a Saudi Arabian whose second or third (etc) language is German.
I've attempted to listen to a few of her casts from SC2 to DOTA, and wow... I literally can not do it. I'll understand some things and then she'll say something that sounds Martian and I'll repeat it in my head trying to figure out what she was trying to say, and at that point I've lost her commentating flow which leaves me lost and confused and annoyed... Extremely annoyed.
However, GOM's hiring of KellyMILKIES could give shows like SOTG and WOC a shit ton of gold to work with for the next month and beyond. LoL... Actually... I hope they do keep her on, solely for the material it will provide for those shows.
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On February 18 2011 15:35 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 15:34 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:30 motbob wrote:On February 18 2011 15:29 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:19 ptbl wrote:On February 18 2011 15:17 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:12 ptbl wrote:On February 18 2011 15:10 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:05 ptbl wrote:Poll: Do you like Kellymilkies being a Code A caster?No (429) 83% Yes (86) 17% 515 total votes Your vote: Do you like Kellymilkies being a Code A caster? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
You'll probably want to make a new thread with this, as I seriously doubt very many people will look this far into this thread (while actually reading everything) and end up voting. I do think it would be nice to have an idea how overwhelmingly we're against her, though. That would be a nice stat to pull out to show how bad the choice is. I'm pretty sure it's against the rules to make a thread for a poll. :/ Not if you outline the discussion and talk about it yourself. I've done it several times and have had long, fruitful threads that come from the poll. Never been banned or warned for it. Could you do it? I need to go to bed. It's already 1AM here and I have work tomorrow  . You know, considering the closing of the last thread, I'm a little afraid to do it, lol. Please don't do it. I promise you that I wasn't going to and will not, my good sir. It's better to keep the flames contained. Better a fire pit than a forest fire, eh? Now you tell me  .
Umm . . . I love you? Hugs and cookies? 
I was honestly just reflecting on how ridiculous even this thread is getting.
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On February 18 2011 15:38 Integra wrote:
"Her hobbies include dancing, reading, painting, travelling, and cooking."
"Travelling" is spelled with one "L" Btw, shouldn't it read Starcraft2 there somewhere?
Anyway I'll give her a benefit of a doubt and assume she actually speaks comprehensive English during the GSL. Goodluck to you Kelly!
Actually it can be travelling as well. Both are correct.
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So she has an accent, whats the big deal? I do agree with the complaints though of some people that she can talk a big too fast sometimes. I think she can work well though bouncing back and forth with artosis or tasteless.
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OK, so. It seems like she will be casting this alone.
I have a totally unrelated, although very serious question in that case. What's the address for the Korean stream? Is it possible to tune in to the Korean commentating from the EU zone?
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This decision by Gom somewhat disappoints me.
For those crying "racism!" I seriously couldn't care less about the accent. I just expect a GSL caster to have more knowledge about SC2, I'd be just as disappointed if someone like Husky or TotalBiscuit was casting (I do not mean to bash, they are not necessarily bad casters I just feel like a major tournament like the GSL should have very high quality casting).
To be honest i almost feel like (if possible) major tournament casting should be reserved for former and current pro's as well as people who have really proven that they understand sc2. I mean it's obvious that not everyone can be Artosis or Day9, but poor quality casting is not going to help Starcraft 2 grow as an e-sport.
I'll give this a chance though, I sincerely hope I am not disappointed.
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GOOOOOO Kelly!
Good luck in Korea
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To give credit to one iNcontrol, would any of you turn it down if it was offered... even if you knew you would be horrid at it? She has an awesome oppurtunity to do something great, and all we should do as viewers and supporters of the E-sports world is hope that she does good at what she will be getting paid to do.
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On February 18 2011 15:37 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 15:26 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:19 On_Slaught wrote:On February 18 2011 15:15 Char711 wrote:On February 18 2011 15:09 On_Slaught wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2011 15:04 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 14:41 ptbl wrote:
GOMTV has obviously dropped the ball when it comes to getting the viewers input. Really disappointed in the organization. This is really the important point. Complaining about GOM's decision isn't really productive. Criticizing the way they made their decision is. Lately there's been a pattern of GOM making decisions that are unpopular, and have no real rational explanation. This is a lot like the selection of foreigners seeded in Code A. It seems like GOM is making haphazard decisions based on cost and expediency, instead of building a strong and consistent organization. It's as though they woke up the morning before their big exam and realized they never studied anything. People often say things like "This isn't bad for such short notice" or "They have to make some compromises in order to get someone quickly." That's fine for most situations, but GOM is running the world's largest esports tournament. This is supposed to be a serious organization, with serious sponsors, giving away serious money. It really seems pretty disorganized though. I really hope Kelly does well, but that doesn't mean picking her was a smart decision. GOM needs to wise up if they want to keep running the world's premier SC2 league. There are plenty of other organizations out there who would love to take their place. This post is REALLY unfair to gom considering they just did the best thing that has happened to the community since launch: use new maps. Yes this decision is questionable, but they had a process for selecting foreign players for Code A and they had a process for this (tho it seems meh). You make it sound like they keep fucking up when that simply isn't true. They have done a lot more good than bad. Hell, they just got Intel to sponsor them. In an ever more common trend of mine, I'll point out what was said in a recent State of the Game podcast by, I believe, iNcontroL. It was about Blizzard but still applies: we're getting all grateful for something they should do. It helps them make all this money and we're just sitting here saying "wow, that was so great of them! I LURV YOU!" It's not like major Korean SC tournaments hadn't broken the "new map barrier" before. This was incredibly expected and was just a matter of time, not some revelation. You make it sound like doing what works is bad. If i'm supposed to save a drowning kid and I do it, it doesn't diminish what I did just because I was supposed to, or that someone else did the same thing yesterday. This is an absurd argument. Gom is doing things right atm. I wish they would have gotten another caster but at least they did something rather then run Tasteless/Artosis to death with the constant casting. I'm sorry, my eyes might be deceiving me, but I think you just compared me talking about new maps to not saving a child from drowning. That's really appropriate. And, no, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that it's good but that it wasn't this amazing invention or anything. We knew it was going to happen. That doesn't completely cheapen that they did it, but it does mean that it isn't this awesome new thing like the foreigner house. I'm thinking that your argument is the more absurd, don't you? You're using fallacious reasoning by attacking the content rather than the form. It wouldn't matter if I said I do X, while someone else does Y, etc. as long as the form remains true. The fact remains is the GSL is doing everything right so far. We wanted new maps? They gave us some. We wanted more foreigners? There they are. Artosis/Tasteless wanted caster help? They got it. Criticising Gom for doing what they are doing is very unfair since they are trying to make things work. It is fine to criticize the outcome (like picking Kelly) but don't act like they are making irational decisions in seeking these things out. People act like they want esports to fail or something. As if that isn't their job to maintain it or anything.
Fallacious reasoning is attacking content over form? The whole point of argument is to debate the content! Errors in form is the definition of fallacy! It's either you're wrong or my rhetoric major has just been a waste of money so far.
And, for the last time, I'm saying that GOM is doing several good things. I acknowledge that they are trying to make a lot of the stuff work. I am criticizing the outcome and am connecting that to irrational decision making simply because that specific outcome doesn't seem to make sense and their stated reasoning doesn't conform with the facts (note that I'm arguing about the content like I'm supposed to; the cold, hard facts).
And I'm pretty sure we're not saying they have something against eSports. At the most, people are saying that they could do things that are more conducive to helping eSports or that they may, mistakenly, be doing something harmful. I, personally, wouldn't say that they're doing something harmful, per se. Something like this won't blow everything up, but it does feel like a step back in Code A casting.
Oh, and it isn't their job to maintain eSports. They deal with StarCraft. In a country that already embraces it fully. Most of us talk about it in the context of the rest of the world.
Edit: Here you go. Princeton defines fallacy as: "a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning." "Incorrect reasoning" means that it is an incorrect or faulty inference, which is a mistake in form. It's when you say that one thing leads to another when it really does not. Fallacies often deliberately skirt the content of an argument (e.g., straw man).
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I'm conflicted about what to do. As someone that's trying to break into the broadcasting business myself, I'm always happy to see someone get their break. I'm hopeful that mine is right around the corner. I wish Kelly well and hope she does an amazing job.
With that being said, I'm not a fan of her selection at this time. I've lived in the U.S. my entire life and have friends with all sorts of different accents. However, I for the life of me cannot understand more than half of what she says. I've watched her live streams before, I've seen some clips of her VODs and it's really a 50-50 crapshoot on whether I can understand the words she is saying. That is a problem for me if I'm going to pay for another GSL season. I want to be able to listen and enjoy a cast and frankly be lazy during it. I don't want to have to think about what is being said, much less whether what is being said is correct or not. I don't care if GOM hired the worst English speaking caster in the world, as long as I can understand them, I can get over it.
I enjoy watching the foreigners play the top Koreans, that's the main reason I personally watch the GSL. With as many foreigners as are playing in the Code A tournament, I was really looking forward to it and it was a no-brainer that I would get the pass. I loved the January season pass and was definitely interested in getting it again. However, if I can't understand half of what is being said, I question whether it would be in my best interests to purchase the pass. With my favorite player, IdrA, no longer playing, and the addition of a caster who I can't understand commentating all the foreigner games (except Jinro), it's made this decision a lot tougher than it should be.
Sadly the games will stream live for me at like 3 a.m. every day so I won't be able to watch the free live streams very often. I may just see how the first game or two goes on Monday and if it's ok, purchase the season pass on Tuesday. I hate feeling conflicted about it but I can't watch on mute if I'm paying for it. Oh well, guess I'll just have to think more about it.
Sorry for the rambling but I needed somewhere to vocalize my thoughts and get some input. Thanks for reading and good luck to Kelly, hope she does great!
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*sigh* I'm incredibly sorry for that "quote" instead of "edit." I'll try to put something that adds to the discussion here in an edit.
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I've listened to a few of Kelly's casts and honestly. Not only was I not impressed with how bad her game knowledge seemed to be in a couple of random youtube videos I picked, I hated her accent.
She's really on the level of Husky and totalbiscuit which is what I'd consider the bottom tier of SC2 casters, they usually appeal to the LCD in my personal experiences at least in the case of Husky and TB.
So honestly, as a person who want's casters who actually know how to cast since I'm staying up until 5 AM to watch these matches, I don't agree with their decision.
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I'm afraid the flaming won't stop until we get a clear statement either form GOM or from Wolf/Moletrap/Torch regarding why Wolf/Moletrap/Torch wasn't picked.
Wolf already said
On February 18 2011 14:27 Wolf wrote:
It's a lot more complex than you guys think..!
Everybody keeps yelling "y no wolf?", "y no torch?" ... I strongly believe that nobody except Kelly was serious about casting code A. It's like saying "Why doesn't Obama cast code A, he would be an excellent caster!". So as long as these individuals won't be making a statement this thread will be nothing but flame, accusations, idiocy and just as useless as the other one.
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EPT
