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On February 07 2011 05:57 ChThoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 04:01 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:On February 06 2011 13:39 ChThoniC wrote:On February 06 2011 13:20 cosmo.6792 wrote:On February 06 2011 12:38 ChThoniC wrote:
How do you get speedlings from 2 bases when your ramp constantly has forcefield on it?
Are you saying it's not possible to get speedlings out of 2 bases before a 4-gate push starts? Are you saying you prevent 4-gate and apply pressure with pure speedling? What league are you in? You know who else said that you can crush a 4gate with pure speedling, IdrA. Search for "JP and Friends": watch the first Youtube video with IdrA, in that video you will see IdrA crush a 4gate by Cruncher (who happened to win the TLopen) with pure speedling; then he goes on to recommend that people do that to defend 4gate. You're ignoring the whole part about where only half of your speedlings can get down the ramp because it's blocked by forcefield. The ramp that is un-defendable because of how far it is from the main and natural. It's like another Blistering Sands, except your ramp is even farther from your natural and there's no backdoor rocks to help you later in the game or to help you get around your force-fielded ramp. It's just a bad design.
Did you even watch it?
He got all of his lings out before they could FF his ramp, it's not as nearly as hopeless as you are making it out to be.
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Garbage maps. I didn't want to fast expand as a Protoss anyways.
Looks like all Blizzard got out of "Xel'naga is the least imbalanced map" was "Ima put 2+ entrances to your natural."
Thanks for that.
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I hope blizzard can look at what GSL is doing with the Map Pool and work with them to make the ladder maps.
:/
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On February 06 2011 18:36 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2011 10:25 cosmo.6792 wrote:On February 06 2011 08:42 ChThoniC wrote:
For example, it is impossible for a Zerg to do anything but one base on #3 against Protoss, because any 4-gate rush can infinitely block the unprotectable ramp while taking potshots at the expansion. When did people get this idea that Zerg cannot defend a 4-gate without static defenses at their natural? I have found that +1 speedlings can counter most forms of early 4-gates without the need for spine crawlers. So what you mean is every game no matter what I need to get super fast evo chamber and get +1 because my opponent might go 4 gate, right? Man that's stupid thinking, you need to react for a 4 gate, but you suggest wasting 100/100 just to get +1 so you can counter 4 gate. People are saying that a map is bad because he comes, makes a forcefield and you won't have any reinforcements from your main, but you are giving an advice which has nothing to do with a problem.
So what you mean is every game no matter what I need to get a spawning pool before 50 food because my opponent might attack me, right? Man that's stupid thinking,..
Strategy in RTS games have constraints, you can't do anything you want when you want it just because you feel like you should...
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Not important to most people but I noticed that on the new 4 player map that starting positions were off and not as near to the minerals as they could of been. The top left spawn was so far off I actually just started laughing the first time i spawned in that position. Does not give me a lot of faith in the map makers I hope the 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 maps are done correctly.
Picture
![[image loading]](http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6931/reallyblizzard.png)
Edit: Blue Teal Purple Spawns are off the rest seem ok
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On February 07 2011 09:04 Artisan wrote:Not important to most people but I noticed that on the new 4 player map that starting positions were off and not as near to the minerals as they could of been. The top left spawn was so far off I actually just started laughing the first time i spawned in that position. Does not give me a lot of faith in the map makers I hope the 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 maps are done correctly. Picture
Love the file name. That's effing hilarious.
Are they being paid for this? Seriously, Blizzard, just hire the iCCup team. It'll make you look a lot less foolish.
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Hire iccup? Why not ask for them for free. To be frank iccup isn't perfect. Yes they do have the occasional map that is really good, but many of their maps are imbalanced. I'm not comparing them to blizzard's but I'm just describing them by themselves.
You really think they would hire mapmakers when they can just find maps for free? (Which has been the "traditional" way, a la Kespa).
Sure money can help them focus on it, but there are always people devoted enough regardless of money. Anyways, the benefit a mapmaker gains is recognition and just being satisfied and happy.
If they hire a team it better not be iccup but a team Blizzard themselves made. Meaning they check to make sure each member is outstanding and everything. But again hiring is quite... "untraditional" and unnecessary.
Anyways, think of this. Would Blizzard really hire a team from a website that helped people pirate Starcraft so easily? It's like they're hiring hackers to help make sure there are no bugs in the game.
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These maps do little to inspire, they look unoriginal, and uninspiring. Sorry blizzard =(.
I am interested in playing new maps though, so maybe it's better than nothing.
Props to blizzard for using test realm for something useful!
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On February 07 2011 09:04 Artisan wrote:Not important to most people but I noticed that on the new 4 player map that starting positions were off and not as near to the minerals as they could of been. The top left spawn was so far off I actually just started laughing the first time i spawned in that position. Does not give me a lot of faith in the map makers I hope the 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 maps are done correctly. Picture
Two things:
1) Terran would be imba with those spawns olololol
2) Why did you mine 500+ minerals, build something, cancel it, and then probe rush?
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Neo lost temple is pretty good for blink stalker PvZ. You can blink hurt stalkers onto the gold patches. Plus, there is a new area behind that gold that you can blink onto, and attack at a different angle (so spines don't all attack you)
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I have been getting murdered by blink stalker all ins because of the odd ramp placement of most of these maps, its like warpgate heaven since you cant rely on spine crawlers for defense and reinforcements get cut by forcefield thanks to the ramp that aims outwards directly into the opponents attack patch.
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On February 07 2011 09:18 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
You really think they would hire mapmakers when they can just find maps for free? (Which has been the "traditional" way, a la Kespa).
OGN did not just "find" some maps for free on b.net, lol.
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The naturals are WAY too wide in my opinion, it doesn't reinforce macro games at all, just makes people want to 1 base. These maps are pretty bad in general, but better than what we have. the new LT is great, I don't mind the natural's choke being a bit more wide open, that's a nice feature, but the expansions on test map 2, 4 and 5 are just way to wide. It's like they saw xelnaga being balanced and just thought having wide naturals is good when that's not always the case. I also very much dislike testmap 3, just isn't very good at all. If I have to say which ones are the best i'd say testmap 1 and testmap 5 are probably the only ones worth keeping.
btw, test map 5 is New Antioch in the blizzard maps and testmap 2 resembles the 8 person map, High Ground. New Antioch was definitely changed for the better but still not the best map, at least blizzard is going in the right direction.
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OGN did not just "find" some maps for free on b.net, lol.
You're putting words into my mouth...
I didn't say they found it on bnet. There are many ways of "finding" things. In this case, community and fan made maps that they (Kespa) "approved" and implemented.
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these are actually really annoying. i expand a lot, and it seems that if you plan on ever going beyond 2 bases you have to kill rocks everywhere, there is no quick 3rd options in most situations. also, the amount of paths and rocks into naturals and 3rds is going to make expand play a nightmare. yea, the maps are bigger but i'm pretty disappointed so far.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On February 07 2011 12:43 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:You're putting words into my mouth... I didn't say they found it on bnet. There are many ways of "finding" things. In this case, community and fan made maps that they (Kespa) "approved" and implemented.
OMAT=OnGameNet Mapping And Architecture Team.
Hired by OGN to make maps,Mapdori is an official KeSPA Mapzone where they pay the map makers if their maps are good.
Rose.Of.Dream is an official KeSPA mapmaker who gets paid to make maps(Eg:Fighting Spirit).They are hired mapmakers,who used to be community mapmakers.
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I don't know if it has been noted yet but zergs should make killing the rocks closest to their main on testmap1 (lost temple 2) high priority. Or any race against terran (including other terrans) because siege tanks can hit the gold from the bases that were once islands (the geysers anyway). I don't think it will end up being that big of a deal is if you arent spawning close positions to the terran chances are it will be easy for you to take out the rocks with little resistence and if it is close positions as zerg you will likely pick somewhere else for you 3rd or 4th.
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Test map 1 is pretty sick its a lost temple without cliff drops and without islands. There are ramps leading to the new "islands" with rocks blocking the passages. Also the middle is a lot bigger and favors big engagements which may make it easier for them roach armies?
TvP on Testmap1 if you wanna watch
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-187257.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +
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I am kinda disappointed that they did not choose to use the new GSL maps. Those things look baller.
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People who say "you can make +1 zergling to counter 4gate" are clueless.
"But... Idra said so". Sorry, +1 speedlings are good against 4gate, but it's way harder to deal with a 4 gate with pure speedling than going with a bunch of roach and some ling plus spine. I almost always crush a 4gate with that mix, while speedling can be destroyed if the protoss is actually smart enough to build zealots and sentries and not go for a pure stalker and a pair of zealots.
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EPT
