Today, we proudly bring you the location and dates of the first two Live Competitions. We kick off the season in Dallas, TX on the weekend of April 1-3. From there, the Pro Circuit will head to Columbus, OH on June 3-5. Columbus and Dallas have proven to be popular mainstays on the Pro Circuit, and we’re thrilled to return in 2011.
Online registration for all MLG Dallas titles will open on Tuesday, March 1 at 7pm ET. The Halo: Reach tournament will feature 208 teams, while the StarCraft 2 tournament will see 272 players square off. Come compete alongside the best players the world has to offer in some of the most massive brackets in gaming history. More details on registration, including pass prices and the bracket size for Call of Duty®: Black Ops will be announced soon.
Online registration for all MLG Dallas titles will open on Tuesday, March 1 at 7pm ET.
The Top 16 players will also each receive a $400 travel stipend.(This kicks in at the 3rd regular season event)This has been taken down for now and will be announced later perhaps.
On February 04 2011 01:34 MLG_Adam wrote: If only every title could be run in a single player format. It really makes raising the prizes for 4 person team games very difficult. I wish we could run FFAs for Halo, then everyone would be happy with the prize pool.
Anyways, I hope everyone in the SC2 community comes out to compete this season. To clarify a post earlier, NATIONALS IS NOT CLOSED TO TOP 8. Rank points will be used from the season to give extreme bracket benefits to those with the most points, but anyone will be able to compete at the end of the season.
I think it is pretty sweet for the 2nd season of SC2. If we support MLG it can only get bigger. Good luck to all those who can make it to these events.
Was eagerly awaiting the announcement when MLG kicks off 2011. The prize money for the finals is actually ridiculous, 120k, I very much approve. But 14.000$ for the normal ones isn't shabby either.
Damn, that is a lot of money. I am fairly confident this will be a loud call for players to practice their ass off, and as a spectator I am looking forward to some good games because of this!
Wow. That is an unbelievable amount of money being poured into the US Starcraft 2 scene. Anyone who doesn't think this is a truly massive e-sport by now, is crazy.
Gah, I wish it was a little closer to the east coast I want to go to an event so bad! I think I'll go to the next one in Columbus if that is in Ohio, as thats only like an 11 hour drive, totally doable :D
Wow. National Championship is a good chunk of change, way to go MLG! I'm certainly going to support MLG in the future, this is awesome for the second season. Even the regular season events have a lot of money on the line, I hope MLG keeps up the awesome work in future seasons.
On February 04 2011 00:42 staplestf2 wrote: so can EG top this with the super secret news coming out this month?
Incontrol said it was huge, huge news that would shake up the sc2 world. If Incontrol, gretorp, and machine are heading towards california to organize a tournament, it must be bigger than the GSL.
I can't find the 50k figure off the website, so probably want to toss up a direct link to that (or maybe they took it down because it went up early?)
Either way, that's going to bring the Koreans out in force. No way it doesn't. And anyone else that's good. No matter what, the National Championships is going to be one hell of a tournament to be at.
On February 04 2011 00:49 ptbl wrote: I know TSL3 is going through April, so I hope it doesn't coincide with MLG.
TSL3 is replay casted and we will probably have just a couple matches in a single day. So even if it does coincide, I don't think it would be a major problem.
On February 04 2011 00:50 Taf the Ghost wrote: I can't find the 50k figure off the website, so probably want to toss up a direct link to that (or maybe they took it down because it went up early?)
Either way, that's going to bring the Koreans out in force. No way it doesn't. And anyone else that's good. No matter what, the National Championships is going to be one hell of a tournament to be at.
Click the underlined link in the OP, then scroll down.
soooo excite. Glad MLG is finally stepping up! First year was already really good, all things considered, and this year can truly be considered its true debut. Unfortunately, timezones will be really messed up for me since I'll be in Australia. I guess I'll know what it feels like being an American and watching the OSL finals or GSL :<
On February 04 2011 00:47 s.a.y wrote: GSL just got competition.
I doubt it,the money is there but where is the suspense and the prestige?
The suspense and prestige are definitely there. In fact, even before this I wouldn't be surprised if MLG had more viewers than the GSL internationally. It's a well-respected franchise in e-Sports that goes beyond just SC2.
Well its interesting what MLG is gonna do with their map pool :D. It would be funny to see SoW, DQ and JB in the tournament map pool =). They should consider to add the best ICCUP and best GSL Maps to their pool.
Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
Oh really? Man that sucks than. I thought last year what happen was that anyone could go but they just won't be seeded. Will be kinda funny to see MVP vs Idra 1st round or something.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the two regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
Loved watching the MLG streams last season, this looks truly amazing. Some of the most entertaining games of last year came from MLG I think. So good for the scene as a whole having Major comps not only in Korea, but America, and europe has the ESL too.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
Oh really? Man that sucks than. I thought last year what happen was that anyone could go but they just won't be seeded. Will be kinda funny to see MVP vs Idra 1st round or something.
I don't know how the seeding works but it may very well be possible to only attend a few events and still qualify for the Nationals if you perform well enough. Someone like MVP may be able to show up when possible and get into the top 8 from just a few 1st/2nd place results.
On February 04 2011 00:47 s.a.y wrote: GSL just got competition.
I doubt it,the money is there but where is the suspense and the prestige?
In the cheque, lets be honest no one is going to give a fuck about prestige when they win that kind of money :D
Also very interesting to note
If you won all six Reach tournaments ----- $200 000 for your TEAM, only $50 000 for YOU If you win all six SC2 tournaments ----- $75 000 for YOU
^^^BIG statement by MLG. I love Reach too but there is no doubt that SC2 is the better game. The money shows it.
P.S. Screw COD I hope that game dies and the prize money is $100
I don't think you understand that I've been so spoiled by Brood War that a tournament with that kind of money requires that prestige and epicness and booths and boothgirls who take up 300 of the 500APM of macro and micro.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the three regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
I think that's a good thing, if you want to be in the finals, you gotta play in the pre events. It's no different to GSL, you can't now qualify for Code S without going through Code A. Has to be a barrier for entry, that way only the best and most dedicated make it through, and also adds a bit of stability and recognisability to the player lineups. If someone comes out the blue and takes the Final, that'd just discredit the entire thing. Now if players want to be the best and win that big prize at the end, they have to the best over a longer period of time, not just that one weekend.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
Source? I call bs...
I can hardly believe the National Championship will consist of 8 players... Maybe you have to go through an extra qualification bracket if you're not top 8/16 but no way they will only have 8 players playing the NC.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the two regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
It's how they've always run their other events, they in all likelihood only did it differently last year because it started in the middle of the year.
On February 04 2011 00:47 s.a.y wrote: GSL just got competition.
I doubt it,the money is there but where is the suspense and the prestige?
In the cheque, lets be honest no one is going to give a fuck about prestige when they win that kind of money :D
Also very interesting to note
If you won all six Reach tournaments ----- $200 000 for your TEAM, only $50 000 for YOU If you win all six SC2 tournaments ----- $75 000 for YOU
^^^BIG statement by MLG. I love Reach too but there is no doubt that SC2 is the better game. The money shows it.
P.S. Screw COD I hope that game dies and the prize money is $100
Money is important. However, if top Koreans don't show up to MLG events, then the prestige won't be as high as the GSL. I'm hearing that the MLG championship will be based on top 8 finishes at MLG pro circuit events. This will most likely stop Koreans from participating and possibly Team Liquid members if MLG regular events coincide with GSL.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the three regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
I think that's a good thing, if you want to be in the finals, you gotta play in the pre events. It's no different to GSL, you can't now qualify for Code S without going through Code A. Has to be a barrier for entry, that way only the best and most dedicated make it through, and also adds a bit of stability and recognisability to the player lineups. If someone comes out the blue and takes the Final, that'd just discredit the entire thing. Now if players want to be the best and win that big prize at the end, they have to the best over a longer period of time, not just that one weekend.
So effectively, this means that MLG will be shutting out the Korean players. If you're going to make the Korean Players and the GSL foreigners to choose between GSL and MLG, they'll chose GSL. So, you won't have someone like Jinro come out of nowhere and win the national championship in Dallas.
If you want MLG to be a global tournament, you need to have top level Koreans participating.
I'm really interested to see what the format of this is going to be. From what I've read on their website, halo tournaments in the past have been formatted in a way that you have a certain number of teams seeded that play a double elimination tournament, while the open bracket that any team can enter feeds into the losers bracket of this so-called "championship" bracket. The number of players (272) seems to suggest that there might be 16 seeded players and 256 "open" spots (256+16=272). I guess we'll just have to wait for them to announce more.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the three regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
I think that's a good thing, if you want to be in the finals, you gotta play in the pre events. It's no different to GSL, you can't now qualify for Code S without going through Code A. Has to be a barrier for entry, that way only the best and most dedicated make it through, and also adds a bit of stability and recognisability to the player lineups. If someone comes out the blue and takes the Final, that'd just discredit the entire thing. Now if players want to be the best and win that big prize at the end, they have to the best over a longer period of time, not just that one weekend.
So effectively, this means that MLG will be shutting out the Korean players. If you're going to make the Korean Players and the GSL foreigners to choose between GSL and MLG, they'll chose GSL. So, you won't have someone like Jinro come out of nowhere and win the national championship in Dallas.
If you want MLG to be a global tournament, you need to have top level Koreans participating.
Then it's up to them to come compete.. the prize money is there. Admittedly the resources such as accommodation and stuff isn't set up like GSL's. but MLG events take place over 1 weekend, not over the course of week's like a GSL. So fitting a flight, compete and flight back in between GSL rounds, or in the off season won't be as difficult. I mean some of the players managed it for Blizzcon, which runs a similar timeframe.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the three regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
I think that's a good thing, if you want to be in the finals, you gotta play in the pre events. It's no different to GSL, you can't now qualify for Code S without going through Code A. Has to be a barrier for entry, that way only the best and most dedicated make it through, and also adds a bit of stability and recognisability to the player lineups. If someone comes out the blue and takes the Final, that'd just discredit the entire thing. Now if players want to be the best and win that big prize at the end, they have to the best over a longer period of time, not just that one weekend.
So effectively, this means that MLG will be shutting out the Korean players. If you're going to make the Korean Players and the GSL foreigners to choose between GSL and MLG, they'll chose GSL. So, you won't have someone like Jinro come out of nowhere and win the national championship in Dallas.
If you want MLG to be a global tournament, you need to have top level Koreans participating.
Um, it is called the "national championship" ...
I think this is actually great for esports. As it stands, Korea is the only place with a tournament that is big enough to say "you want to participate, you come to us and dedicate a significant amount of time to it." If qualifying for MLG actually requires the time commitment to go to a number of smaller tournaments, then maybe there will be something similar outside of Korea, which would be great.
There is not and there has not been a true "global tournament," since it's so hard for foreigners to get to Korea and the Koreans so rarely leave. I think the real future lies in something like this, having a significant esports scene in the west rather than making the ultimate goal of all western esports to be an outgrowth of the Korean scene for one weekend.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
I don't think this is true. Jinro didn't attend the three regular events at D.C. and Raleigh, but was able to participate in the championship in Dallas.
However, if they changed the rules for 2011, then I think it's a real shame.
I think that's a good thing, if you want to be in the finals, you gotta play in the pre events. It's no different to GSL, you can't now qualify for Code S without going through Code A. Has to be a barrier for entry, that way only the best and most dedicated make it through, and also adds a bit of stability and recognisability to the player lineups. If someone comes out the blue and takes the Final, that'd just discredit the entire thing. Now if players want to be the best and win that big prize at the end, they have to the best over a longer period of time, not just that one weekend.
So effectively, this means that MLG will be shutting out the Korean players. If you're going to make the Korean Players and the GSL foreigners to choose between GSL and MLG, they'll chose GSL. So, you won't have someone like Jinro come out of nowhere and win the national championship in Dallas.
If you want MLG to be a global tournament, you need to have top level Koreans participating.
Then it's up to them to come compete.. the prize money is there. Admittedly the resources such as accommodation and stuff isn't set up like GSL's. but MLG events take place over 1 weekend, not over the course of week's like a GSL. So fitting a flight, compete and flight back in between GSL rounds, or in the off season won't be as difficult. I mean some of the players managed it for Blizzcon, which runs a similar timeframe.
I think you're right. This will probably be how it will play out, but I'm not sure if Koreans will attend the MLG regular events. I hope that the championship was like the one in Dallas. Have seeded players and unseeded players, though it would be weird to see someone like MVP play Incontrol in the first round or something .
More importantly why is Halo reach $100k? I don't want to start a flame war or anything about Halo, but as far as shooters go Halo Reach definitely wouldn't make my top 5. I'm glad for esports that there are 2 very different genres but... halo..... reach.... sigh.
Anyways, super excited about Starcraft 2, I think we may see more EU people in these tournaments because of the prize pool and hopefully a better and smoother experience compared to last years MLGs.
You can't and won't convince Koreans to leave Korea for this prize pool, especially so if the national championship is seeded. the GSL has a comparable prize pool and runs 6x more often. Nobody is going to fly half way around the world when they could compete in a comparable tournament that lies a few hours drive away.
If the finals have open registration spots you could probably attract some talent, but I would be hard pressed to call that 'rivaling the prestige of the GSL.'
On February 04 2011 01:29 btlyger wrote: More importantly why is Halo reach $100k? I don't want to start a flame war or anything about Halo, but as far as shooters go Halo Reach definitely wouldn't make my top 5. I'm glad for esports that there are 2 very different genres but... halo..... reach.... sigh.
Anyways, super excited about Starcraft 2, I think we may see more EU people in these tournaments because of the prize pool and hopefully a better and smoother experience compared to last years MLGs.
You shouldn't be so quick to hate on Halo because Halo is what made MLG what it is. Without halo's success, this tournament doesn't even exist.
On February 04 2011 01:29 btlyger wrote: More importantly why is Halo reach $100k? I don't want to start a flame war or anything about Halo, but as far as shooters go Halo Reach definitely wouldn't make my top 5. I'm glad for esports that there are 2 very different genres but... halo..... reach.... sigh.
Anyways, super excited about Starcraft 2, I think we may see more EU people in these tournaments because of the prize pool and hopefully a better and smoother experience compared to last years MLGs.
MLG has always been and most likely will be (for the forseeable future) centered around the Halo franchise.
If only every title could be run in a single player format. It really makes raising the prizes for 4 person team games very difficult. I wish we could run FFAs for Halo, then everyone would be happy with the prize pool.
Anyways, I hope everyone in the SC2 community comes out to compete this season. To clarify a post earlier, NATIONALS IS NOT CLOSED TO TOP 8. Rank points will be used from the season to give extreme bracket benefits to those with the most points, but anyone will be able to compete at the end of the season.
On February 04 2011 01:31 Frack wrote: sc2 in NA/EU doesnt need korea to be successful
Wait, isn't the point of a tournament to attract the top players from the world? So, you're saying that you don't want MVP, oGsMC, Jinro, Idra, fruitdealer, IMNestea, MKP, etc participating in MLG? Why?
On February 04 2011 01:34 MLG_Adam wrote: If only every title could be run in a single player format. It really makes raising the prizes for 4 person team games very difficult. I wish we could run FFAs for Halo, then everyone would be happy with the prize pool.
Anyways, I hope everyone in the SC2 community comes out to compete this season. To clarify a post earlier, NATIONALS IS NOT CLOSED TO TOP 8. Rank points will be used from the season to give extreme bracket benefits to those with the most points, but anyone will be able to compete at the end of the season.
Holy cow, I am now officially 1000 times more excited. Thank you for clarifying the earlier post Adam. I feel like doing cartwheels. I am so glad to hear the national championship isn't closed. yipeeeeeee
On February 04 2011 01:31 Frack wrote: sc2 in NA/EU doesnt need korea to be successful
Wait, isn't the point of a tournament to attract the top players from the world? So, you're saying that you don't want MVP, oGsMC, Jinro, Idra, fruitdealer, IMNestea, MKP, etc participating in MLG? Why?
Now at the moment foreign SC is still not blown away by korean SC2, and the game itself is still really not that great to watch for a lot of reasons (maps, blob vs blob warfare etc)
In time though with more macro / skilled maps etc, no one is gonna want to watch the players that practice 20 hours a week inbetween playing WoW or coaching. People will want to see the best players in the world (koreans that play 80 hours a week and the foreigners living in korean training houses). You can say "we aren't that far behind" but it's only gonna get harder and the koreans will only get better.
On February 04 2011 01:31 Frack wrote: sc2 in NA/EU doesnt need korea to be successful
Wait, isn't the point of a tournament to attract the top players from the world? So, you're saying that you don't want MVP, oGsMC, Jinro, Idra, fruitdealer, IMNestea, MKP, etc participating in MLG? Why?
Im saying that their loss does not make the tournament, to me, any less of a prestigious tournament. Idra will be there btw and any other Korean that wants to make the investment. I think MLG's seeding idea is great personally, ensuring the committed and talented get their just dues over several events, it is a far superior format than the gsl and the pool of American and Euro talent it should pool is fantastic.
In an ideal world sure id love the Koreans to come in droves BUT i dont think the tournament needs it and I dont think their presence takes away from, what should be, an awesome series of casts.
On February 04 2011 01:29 btlyger wrote: More importantly why is Halo reach $100k? I don't want to start a flame war or anything about Halo, but as far as shooters go Halo Reach definitely wouldn't make my top 5. I'm glad for esports that there are 2 very different genres but... halo..... reach.... sigh.
Anyways, super excited about Starcraft 2, I think we may see more EU people in these tournaments because of the prize pool and hopefully a better and smoother experience compared to last years MLGs.
Halo is probably going to be a team game, not a 1v1. So divide that prize money 4 ways, which is how previous Halos have been for MLG and you'll see the prize money for the regular season is the same, but the prize money for the championship is substantially higher.
Now if they could only do something about extended series. One could only dream.
On February 04 2011 01:31 dacthehork wrote: How is this in any way amazing?
5k for first place still ain't nothing huge, considering players will be flying from korea/europe on top of that. Factor in flight costs, hotels, etc.
Didn't they also recently secure like 8 million in additional funding for this year or something?
Also the finals for 50,000 and the others for 5,000 doesn't really make sense, would be better to even out each tournament.
Really? Just tell me this is a stupid troll.
Running an event is MUCH MORE expensive than the prize pool. How come 5k isn't huge? There are like 5 events in the world that have a bigger prize. Assembly winter is paying 5k euro overall and there is a bunch of top players going there to play. Also, the 2nd - 8th prize pool is also pretty good.
On February 04 2011 01:29 btlyger wrote: More importantly why is Halo reach $100k? I don't want to start a flame war or anything about Halo, but as far as shooters go Halo Reach definitely wouldn't make my top 5. I'm glad for esports that there are 2 very different genres but... halo..... reach.... sigh.
Anyways, super excited about Starcraft 2, I think we may see more EU people in these tournaments because of the prize pool and hopefully a better and smoother experience compared to last years MLGs.
MLG has always been and most likely will be (for the forseeable future) centered around the Halo franchise.
Halo Reach also has 4... (or even 5?) players per Team. SC2 players get way more.
I think MLG might lose more money trying to sponsor a tournament with 5k 1st prize pool. This is asking people to come to a party when you only have 1 girl while theres 200 guys.. .not gonna happen. Btw this was just an anology, dont take it offensive Kudos !
On February 04 2011 01:31 Frack wrote: sc2 in NA/EU doesnt need korea to be successful
Wait, isn't the point of a tournament to attract the top players from the world? So, you're saying that you don't want MVP, oGsMC, Jinro, Idra, fruitdealer, IMNestea, MKP, etc participating in MLG? Why?
That's not what he meant. I believe he just wanted to say that EU and NA events are getting so big that SC2 doens't needs Korea to be a successful e-Sport.
On February 04 2011 01:31 Frack wrote: sc2 in NA/EU doesnt need korea to be successful
Wait, isn't the point of a tournament to attract the top players from the world? So, you're saying that you don't want MVP, oGsMC, Jinro, Idra, fruitdealer, IMNestea, MKP, etc participating in MLG? Why?
Im saying that their loss does not make the tournament, to me, any less of a prestigious tournament. Idra will be there btw and any other Korean that wants to make the investment. I think MLG's seeding idea is great personally, ensuring the committed and talented get their just dues over several events, it is a far superior format than the gsl and the pool of American and Euro talent it should pool is fantastic.
In an ideal world sure id love the Koreans to come in droves BUT i dont think the tournament needs it and I dont think their presence takes away from, what should be, an awesome series of casts.
"awesome series of casts" versus "awesome series of games"...
Also it does make the tournament less prestigious to not have the top players at it.
On February 04 2011 01:41 LeFroMaGe wrote: I wonder if they are bumping up the production value? Closer to what they do with Halo?
I hope they will take a page out of the old GSL book and string together videos of the players past games at the events or past games at past MLG events that would be pretty neat. Just something to give the audience a more emotional connection to the players and to the game.
On February 04 2011 01:31 Frack wrote: sc2 in NA/EU doesnt need korea to be successful
Wait, isn't the point of a tournament to attract the top players from the world? So, you're saying that you don't want MVP, oGsMC, Jinro, Idra, fruitdealer, IMNestea, MKP, etc participating in MLG? Why?
Im saying that their loss does not make the tournament, to me, any less of a prestigious tournament. Idra will be there btw and any other Korean that wants to make the investment. I think MLG's seeding idea is great personally, ensuring the committed and talented get their just dues over several events, it is a far superior format than the gsl and the pool of American and Euro talent it should pool is fantastic.
In an ideal world sure id love the Koreans to come in droves BUT i dont think the tournament needs it and I dont think their presence takes away from, what should be, an awesome series of casts.
Anyway, the whole point is moot. Adam from LG said the championship isn't closed. People with points from the regular even will be seeder higher, but everyone can participate.
On February 04 2011 01:42 On_Slaught wrote: MLG is going to be awesome this year. Looks big enough to attract all the big names from everywhere, including korea!
price to round trip + hotel conflicting schedules with practice / GSL chances of winning
For the 50,000 dollar one sure, for a 5k at best tournament?
You have to have sponsors that really want US exposure (which doesn't overlap that much with say prime's sponsor which is a korean chicken company. Obviously EG/Liquid/Fnatic will all show up, and maybe oGsMC or someone with a really good shot at winning or Nada/boxer for exposure reasons.
Tbh, I agree that they probably should have given the circuit events a slightly bigger prizepool in exchange for a slightly lower Nationals prize pool. I think having like $30k for 1st (with subsequent payouts scaled down the same way) and putting that money into scaling up the circuit events prizepool would be a bit better. Still, it should be a sick season. Can't wait.
On February 04 2011 01:42 On_Slaught wrote: MLG is going to be awesome this year. Looks big enough to attract all the big names from everywhere, including korea!
price to round trip + hotel conflicting schedules with practice / GSL chances of winning
For the 50,000 dollar one sure, for a 5k at best tournament?
You have to have sponsors that really want US exposure (which doesn't overlap that much with say prime's sponsor which is a korean chicken company.
I agreed, and matter in fact I pointed out earlier, There wont be notable players from Korea just to compete for 5k. US - Korea Round trip itself costs around 1.5k ~ 2k these days And hotel + food would just not be worth the investment to earn 2k.
In addition, players from a team cant really decide to go unless the team manager thinks its both good for the player and the team. Is it worth the time and money to fly over to US? to possibly make profit of 2k? or practice hard during that 2 weeks and prepare to win 85 Grand from GSL?
On February 04 2011 01:41 compscidude wrote: I think MLG might lose more money trying to sponsor a tournament with 5k 1st prize pool. This is asking people to come to a party when you only have 1 girl while theres 200 guys.. .not gonna happen. Btw this was just an anology, dont take it offensive Kudos !
Not at all, just look at Assembly. First prize is about 3000 euros for first then only 1500 euros for second and TL is flying Huk and Ret out, along with Tyler from the U.S.
In the video on mlg's page they say they are totally redoing the venue layout, and there will be three main stages, one for each event. Starcraft 2 gets its own main stage woot!
On February 04 2011 01:41 compscidude wrote: I think MLG might lose more money trying to sponsor a tournament with 5k 1st prize pool. This is asking people to come to a party when you only have 1 girl while theres 200 guys.. .not gonna happen. Btw this was just an anology, dont take it offensive Kudos !
Not at all, just look at Assembly. First prize is about 3000 euros for first then only 1500 euros for second and TL is flying Huk and Ret out, along with Tyler from the U.S.
I'm speaking from an audience perspective. While there maybe well known players in the US community, the most entertaining players are without a doubt the Koreans. Specifically those who won the previous GSL champions or atleast have placed in Semi.
All were gonna see is the same players from US/CAN district with the same 5k price pool same as before. And for that reason, MLG wont be making significantly more than previous seasons, but for sure when 50k comes around the corner, Koreans will be doing live coverage as well as many gaming sites from all over the world. +Big Boost in their name and value to the company.
On February 04 2011 01:41 compscidude wrote: I think MLG might lose more money trying to sponsor a tournament with 5k 1st prize pool. This is asking people to come to a party when you only have 1 girl while theres 200 guys.. .not gonna happen. Btw this was just an anology, dont take it offensive Kudos !
Not at all, just look at Assembly. First prize is about 3000 euros for first then only 1500 euros for second and TL is flying Huk and Ret out, along with Tyler from the U.S.
Liquid is in a pretty special place with regards to sponsorship and supporting their team.
On February 04 2011 01:53 Nashty wrote: sorry if this was already asked but can anyone sign up for MLG? and how are the 200+ players selected? the one with the highest ladder points?
thank you very much
MLG has always been first come first serve, so if you sign up (And pay the fee) then you can play in MLG. Although they do like to reserve some spots for some of the pros.
On February 04 2011 01:41 compscidude wrote: I think MLG might lose more money trying to sponsor a tournament with 5k 1st prize pool. This is asking people to come to a party when you only have 1 girl while theres 200 guys.. .not gonna happen. Btw this was just an anology, dont take it offensive Kudos !
Not at all, just look at Assembly. First prize is about 3000 euros for first then only 1500 euros for second and TL is flying Huk and Ret out, along with Tyler from the U.S.
TLAF really has been a OMGWTFAWESOME sponsor for them. Thanks for being absolutely baller dudes, TLAF.
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
Code S 1st prize isn't 87k anymore, I think they dropped it down around 40k
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
The first place for Code S gets about 50k. There are 7 Code S tournaments in a year, so you can conceivable win up 350k. This is highly unlikely, but still possible.
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
Code S 1st prize isn't 87k anymore, I think they dropped it down around 40k
It's $45k, give or take some depending on exchange rate.
The super tournament (one time per year, 64 players instead of 32) is still $87k.
GSL still has a higher prize pool, but once again you must realize that you've got to play many games over the course of a month to win this tournament, compared to playing a grueling schedule for a single weekend at MLG for a pretty nice prize.
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
Code A make about 1.5k, Code S players get a salary of that much just for being code S
Code A is the minor leagues of GSL, it's not sposed to be an actual tournament, but rather a way to earn Code S.
The way GSL is structured is that eventually the best players make their way up to code S (most have). It just takes a few months. Also look at SC:BW, you had MSL/OSL that took 3 months+ each, and if you failed out of both you would have nothing to do (individual tourney wise).
GSL is a pretty awesome tournament, and the people complaining about code A prizes are just foolish because code A is really just a B team tournament to get into the salaried / top league. So factor in that getting top 8 in code A, and then winning up/down match gets you a salary and for sure top 32 spot in a 85,000 tourney, the prize is actually pretty damn high.
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
Code S 1st prize isn't 87k anymore, I think they dropped it down around 40k
It's $45k, give or take some depending on exchange rate.
The super tournament (one time per year, 64 players instead of 32) is still $87k.
GSL still has a higher prize pool, but once again you must realize that you've got to play many games over the course of a month to win this tournament, compared to playing a grueling schedule for a single weekend at MLG for a pretty nice prize.
True, MLG is designed for players who can think on the spot. Its play play play play eat play play. No thinking between you dont even know who your opponents is going to be until maybe 15 mins before the match.
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
Code S 1st prize isn't 87k anymore, I think they dropped it down around 40k
On other hand, that 40k is given 7 times a year (7 normal seasons), plus 6 team leagues a year, plus "super tournament" and finally a "world champioship".
Code S 1st price may only be 40k, but given that it's almost monthly versus "50k once a year" MLG has, GSL still takes the 1st spot in price money.
Pretty sure alot of koreans will fly out for this, I mean hasnt there already been some koreans flying out to some foreign tournaments (Dreamhack had inca and Top or something did it not?)Which was a smaller tournament than MLG. I am sure most top teams will send a top player or two assuming they think they have someone who will go far. MLG is in the weekend whereas GSL (apart from) finals?) usually is in the weekdays as far as I know\remember, so even having a MLG in the middle of GSL, most players should still be able to attend both.
Just pure epicness incoming. MLG just outclassed GSL for every foreigner. I really hope the whole sc2 community can accomplish the sponsors expectations. I'm so pumped! MLG, TSL3, IEM, "project X (incontrol etc.), FXLan, Dreamhack...and it's never stopping.
On February 04 2011 01:52 bLooD. wrote: Wow thats sick. 50k?!!! How much does the 1st at Code S get?
Code A, 1st prize is around 2k? w.e it was very low considering how dissapointed the GSL4 Code A champion was, saying the prize is only same as Round 32 player from Code A.
If i was in Code A, i'd definetly think about flyin to Dallas to compete for 50K as this is the closest thing there is to 85K (GSL 1st prize)
Code S 1st prize isn't 87k anymore, I think they dropped it down around 40k
On other hand, that 40k is given 7 times a year (7 normal seasons), plus 6 team leagues a year, plus "super tournament" and finally a "world champioship".
Code S 1st price may only be 40k, but given that it's almost monthly versus "50k once a year" MLG has, GSL still takes the 1st spot in price money.
Theres two path laid out infront of you.
1) Go GSL, compete with the best of the best of the best to win 50k, 1 month process 2) Go MLG, compete with the best to win 50k, 1 week process
While choice 1) gives you around the same prize as 2), you will have to compete with top players from the world as top foreigners are also joining the scene. But the benefit is you get to know who your opponent is and do some research prior to gaming.
While i do not know who will be playing in MLG, i suspect some notable players from Korea and US/CAN playing. However, there is no question that MLG will not be as competitive than GSL, ( Just my prediction) On top of that you'll have to play non stop - assuming your winning. this will get tired and you might start to lose focus in the long run.
It all depends, if you are able to think quick on the foot and play 8 hours non stop, MLG. If your the type of player that needs time to think, and know more about your opponent then definetly GSL will bring better results, ( but .... play IMMVP, oGsMC, Nestea not sure....)
I like the fact that more Korean's and other foreigners will come here instead of everyone flocking over there for events. Just think of all the big names that will travel to MLG events in the future...
On February 04 2011 02:09 Finrod1 wrote: Just pure epicness incoming. MLG just outclassed GSL for every foreigner. I really hope the whole sc2 community can accomplish the sponsors expectations. I'm so pumped! MLG, TSL3, IEM, "project X (incontrol etc.), FXLan, Dreamhack...and it's never stopping.
I'm 80% sure the incontrol thing will be a reality show type thing so I wouldn't count it.
On February 04 2011 02:14 Tricks wrote: hopefully koreans come
Maybe. If MLG threw in extra 20k as season opener ontop of the current 50k 70k Definetly. These Koreans are Hungry for Money but with the current GSL shinenigans, its not an individual decision, but rather Manager and team's decision.
On February 04 2011 02:12 Accidentus wrote: I'm pumped. Props to MLG for stepping up.
Yes Props to MLG. Although I'm not sure where MLG is spending 8 million investement they got. This $50k is a one time tourney in one year right?
It's $10 million, IIRC. And although I don't know exactly where that money is going either, my guess would be that they sunk a ton of it into the revamped Pro Circuit format this year (2 more main stages, production equipment equivalent to Halo's tech area, camera cranes, apparently 440 more Samsung monitors [according to Sundance's twitter], more expensive/larger venues, ISP contracts, more semi trucks, additional staff, and other associated equipment), the new offices NYC MLG just moved to, and furnishing their still-new studio in said offices.
There are probably a bunch of other places the money went, as well.
On February 04 2011 02:12 Accidentus wrote: I'm pumped. Props to MLG for stepping up.
Yes Props to MLG. Although I'm not sure where MLG is spending 8 million investement they got. This $50k is a one time tourney in one year right?
It's $10 million, IIRC. And although I don't know exactly where that money is going either, my guess would be that they sunk a ton of it into the revamped Pro Circuit format this year (2 more main stages, production equipment equivalent to Halo's tech area, camera cranes, apparently 440 more Samsung monitors [according to Sundance's twitter], more expensive/larger venues, ISP contracts, more semi trucks, additional staff, and other associated equipment), the new offices NYC MLG just moved to, and furnishing their still-new studio in said offices.
There are probably a bunch of other places the money went, as well.
Agreed. Production is quite expensive. Surely one can't expect a $10million bump in funding to go straight into the prize pool.
If you watch MLG this year and the production values are exactly the same as last year, you may have reason to wonder.
Sooooooooooo much hard work and effort went into getting that prize purse to where it is today. It literally took us 2 years to even get SC on the pro circuit.
Now after multiple seasons and thousands upon thousands of fans showing up to spectate - not to mention the army of viewers watching from home - we're finally getting the benefits that go along with being a world class competition.
Its all thanks to you guys! OMG 2011 IS GOING TO BE INSANE :D
On February 04 2011 02:24 MLG.Shrew wrote: Sooooooooooo much hard work and effort went into getting that prize purse to where it is today. It literally took us 2 years to even get SC on the pro circuit.
Now after multiple seasons and thousands upon thousands of fans showing up to spectate - not to mention the army of viewers watching from home - we're finally getting the benefits that go along with being a world class competition.
Its all thanks to you guys! OMG 2011 IS GOING TO BE INSANE :D
whens the actual event happening? If its during the summer break.. GOGO
On February 04 2011 02:24 MLG.Shrew wrote: Sooooooooooo much hard work and effort went into getting that prize purse to where it is today. It literally took us 2 years to even get SC on the pro circuit.
Now after multiple seasons and thousands upon thousands of fans showing up to spectate - not to mention the army of viewers watching from home - we're finally getting the benefits that go along with being a world class competition.
Its all thanks to you guys! OMG 2011 IS GOING TO BE INSANE :D
Shrew, just thought you should know that you're a baller. Will we see you on a KoT someday?
I think they could've spread out the money down to 16th as that's very difficult to get in a 272 player tournament. And maybe bump up the regular season tournaments money, but that's nitpicking and pretty minor. But, it's pretty amazing how much money they're putting into it, and the national championship should be HUGE.
Also, 272 player tournament? Kind of an odd number So is that going to be a 256 player tournament, with the top 16 seeds getting byes to the ro32 (skipping 4 rounds) OR have 32 players playing preliminary games for 16 spots and have a standard 256 player tournament? Or, some other crazy, complicated system? Can we get some MLG clarification on this?
This is fucking amazing. Let's just hope the online viewers can get more variety in the commercials than you look like a fool in those buns and the spectators can get some bleachers. And, I really hope this remains profitable for MLG so they can continue to put on excellent shows.
272 means they are going to use the lame pro bracket thing. i guarantee this. meaning the top 16 players from 2010 will already be in a championship bracket. The open bracket will consist of 256 players fighting for 16 spots in the championship bracket. i dont think this is the way to go. halo players may accept it but i dont think starcraft players will like it.
I think they could've spread out the money down to 16th as that's very difficult to get in a 272 player tournament. And maybe bump up the regular season tournaments money, but that's nitpicking and pretty minor. But, it's pretty amazing how much money they're putting into it, and the national championship should be HUGE.
Also, 272 player tournament? Kind of an odd number So is that going to be a 256 player tournament, with the top 16 seeds getting byes to the ro32 (skipping 4 rounds) OR have 32 players playing preliminary games for 16 spots and have a standard 256 player tournament? Or, some other crazy, complicated system? Can we get some MLG clarification on this?
SC2 will be treated like every other pro circuit title: championship bracket. Look for 256 open plus 16 pre seeded pro players already in the money bracket. That is why regular season is important.
On February 04 2011 02:34 Dantaro wrote: 272 means they are going to use the lame pro bracket thing. i guarantee this. meaning the top 16 players from 2010 will already be in a championship bracket. The open bracket will consist of 256 players fighting for 16 spots in the championship bracket. i dont think this is the way to go. halo players may accept it but i dont think starcraft players will like it.
Players that place consistently are rewarded for league performance with bracket benefit.
I'd much rather see more money given to the 5 pre-tournaments as incentive for non-Americans to come in order to get points for better seeding to the nationals, other than that I can't say I'm disappointed in anything.
Spending money and effort in creating a much better live (and perhaps online) spectating experience is equally important to the prize pool offered. Cure this, and MLG will be looking pretty good.
I like MLG's bracket setup. Keeps bad players from getting lucky and protects the professional players. IF it were a for fun tournament with no money on the line then having the top 16 get byes would be lame. However this is some peoples lives, they deserve it.
I think they could've spread out the money down to 16th as that's very difficult to get in a 272 player tournament. And maybe bump up the regular season tournaments money, but that's nitpicking and pretty minor. But, it's pretty amazing how much money they're putting into it, and the national championship should be HUGE.
Also, 272 player tournament? Kind of an odd number So is that going to be a 256 player tournament, with the top 16 seeds getting byes to the ro32 (skipping 4 rounds) OR have 32 players playing preliminary games for 16 spots and have a standard 256 player tournament? Or, some other crazy, complicated system? Can we get some MLG clarification on this?
SC2 will be treated like every other pro circuit title: championship bracket. Look for 256 open plus 16 pre seeded pro players already in the money bracket. That is why regular season is important.
That sounds like the 272 would only be at the National Championships. If it is also for the five normal events, on which basis do you select the 16 pros already in the money bracket? Last years results or something like that?
And have the 16seeded players any other advantage over the 16 open tournament players? I.e. like seeded players start in the Winner-bracket and the others in the Loser-bracket?
Ok but will it have the same bracket as halo? you know they changed the halo bracket last year to protect their pro players even more. last year they changed it so the top 16 are in the winners bracket. the 16 players that make it out of open bracket were automatically thrown into losers bracket of the pro bracket. is it going to be like this? or will it be back to the traditional 32 player championship bracket?
This is awesome. Much as I love the GSL, it's even better to see e-sports grow back here in North America. Though it's too bad that MLG is basically a US league (too bad for us Cnadians, anyways).
I don't think anyone here should really be nitpicking to complain about little things that aren't relevant to the prize pool.
This is awesome news. MLG is sticking their neck out. I really enjoyed watching the MLG's involving starcraft last year, and it's exciting to know it's going to be even better this time around.
I think they could've spread out the money down to 16th as that's very difficult to get in a 272 player tournament. And maybe bump up the regular season tournaments money, but that's nitpicking and pretty minor. But, it's pretty amazing how much money they're putting into it, and the national championship should be HUGE.
Also, 272 player tournament? Kind of an odd number So is that going to be a 256 player tournament, with the top 16 seeds getting byes to the ro32 (skipping 4 rounds) OR have 32 players playing preliminary games for 16 spots and have a standard 256 player tournament? Or, some other crazy, complicated system? Can we get some MLG clarification on this?
SC2 will be treated like every other pro circuit title: championship bracket. Look for 256 open plus 16 pre seeded pro players already in the money bracket. That is why regular season is important.
That sounds like the 272 would only be at the National Championships. If it is also for the five normal events, on which basis do you select the 16 pros already in the money bracket? Last years results or something like that?
And have the 16seeded players any other advantage over the 16 open tournament players? I.e. like seeded players start in the Winner-bracket and the others in the Loser-bracket?
How it works in halo:
There is a huge open bracket and a 32 man championship bracket, made up of the 16 pro teams and the final 16 people standing in the open bracket. When there are 16 people left in the open, there are 4 in the winner's bracket still--they get put in losers bracket round 2, and 12 people in the loser's bracket--they get put in losers bracket round 1. I think some of the pro teams get seeded into winner's bracket round 2 as well but I'm not sure.
IMO they need to do the traditional pro bracket where everyone starts off 0-0. its not to use the new pro bracket where 4 open players who don't lose at all throughout the open bracket, get automatically put into the losers bracket in the pro bracket. thats not fair at all.
nice one mlg. very nice news for the nonkorean tournaments.
Halo Reach 100k? hahaha WTF is this?
mlg is build on the console "progamers". and they are still their mainaudience. also 50k for 1 player > 100k for 5 (? dunno how big teams in halo are) players.
Some people in this thread need to realise that Esports isn't just SC2... other games are involved.MLG owes its huge success to Halo, and for the foreseeable future, Halo will be its main game, that SC2 so quickly is considered Halo's equal considering what Halo has done for the MLG, should be taken as a compliment.
This is nice. Very nice. This is the kind of money a pro player can live off if they are strong enough. Hopefully see some top Koreans/Europeans making the journey.
A chance at $5,000 might not be worth the travel expenses for a Korean but I'm sure some of the sponsors will still consider the overseas exposure and send some of the better players. I mean, with all due respect to the TL players, they haven't really covered their own expenses with winnings (maybe Jinro has) . It's an investment by TL, TLAF, and all the other sponsors to cover those expenses.
Can't wait to see how the nationals turn out. I like how anyone can still enter they'll just have a harder time through the brackets if they didn't attend any prior events.
On February 04 2011 03:26 Woony wrote: I think people don't realize that GSL shells out 50k almost every month, MLG only once a year.
I think you don't realize that you can win 50k by playing StarCraft 2 for two days in MLG. If you want to win 50k in GSL you pretty much play for a month and abandon any hopes of going to play in other tournaments outside of Korea.
My biggest question now is what is the map pool going to look like? The prize money is awesome but if they dont tackle the current map pool problem its going to overshadow the whole tournament. Four terrans in all the finals kind of overshadow...
I hope at least boxer out of the koreans goes to all the regular season. Watching boxer playing in a american event outside of blizzcon is pretty fucking sweet dream.
On February 04 2011 03:26 Woony wrote: I think people don't realize that GSL shells out 50k almost every month, MLG only once a year.
I think you don't realize that you can win 50k by playing StarCraft 2 for two days in MLG. If you want to win 50k in GSL you pretty much play for a month and abandon any hopes of going to play in other tournaments outside of Korea.
Yeah baby! I can't wait to attend some of these events. Should draw lots of great players and some big crowds! Do you think they'll also spend a few hundred bucks on some seating??
Shibby - "With 3 mainstages, the Old Spice Swagger matches, over 700 competitors, spawn across 6 major titles in the business. 5 regular stops and one grand final for the Pro Circuit. For those of you who weren't so good at maths in school, that is one major event every 2 months, bit by bit. The MLG is looking like a top seed, for this years e-sports events. The pressure is on, IEM you better not be sleeping.
Chris Puckett - "I can feel you on that one Shibby. With the increased pricepool and the overall improvements to the league, we can expect the thoughest competitors in the world, to be in this league. DMAQ, it's looking like the MLG team is on fire and will come into the 2011 season as a top contender, how do you feel about it DMAQ?"
DMAQ - "First off Puckett, I think you are absolutely right, I give you kudos for that, the MLG roster, is looking so fierce, and all the competitors, on the circuit, they can definitely do some damage. Going forward, I would be surprised, if this years, MLG, in Dallas, doesn't kick off as one of the most dominant, MLG circuits, we have ever seen, in the history, of the league . Statistically speaking Puckett, that's exactly what my prediction is gonna be. Moving forward, that is why, this year, is going to be huge, for e-sports, in the western hemisphere."
Chris Puckett - "They are stepping up. We just gotta see that, the MLG squad, does not have to fear for being on the bubble. This years circuit is gonna be really freaking sweet and I'm talking about Dallas, Raleigh, Anaheim, DC, Columbus. Get ready for the MLG bros.
DMAQ - "I gotta give you kudos for that too, Chris. But, statistically speaking, something that will be on everyones mind is ofcourse, player fatique, during the league. We've seen it happen at the DC stop; SeleCT, QXC, KawaiiRice,Socke, Tyler, HDStarcraft. And going forward Chris, with the increase in players, in that regard, will the Pro Circuit be able, to stay true, to the competition Chris?
Chris Pucket - "Only time can tell DMAQ, but on the otherside, I expect that we can bank on the MLG roster, to step up and prevent any such wildcards from being played DMAQ."
Shibby - "Alright guys, that's gonna be it for the Doritos pre pre-season season analysis, Dallas is gonna be a blast, all weekend long, starting on april firsts. From Chris Puckett, DMAQ and I'm Shibby, goodnight."
I wrote a bit in a normal style and added a little bit of this "satire". Then I realised I could put some of my points in there, so I wrote it up like this and its just meant for a laugh. If you cannot place it, it's the Halo Commentators and I tried to thicker it up a lot for extra effect ofcourse. This was my inspiration (youtube): + Show Spoiler +
Edited in a timetag
Words cannot describe the levels of stoketude, MLG Fighting!
On February 04 2011 03:26 Woony wrote: I think people don't realize that GSL shells out 50k almost every month, MLG only once a year.
I think you don't realize that you can win 50k by playing StarCraft 2 for two days in MLG. If you want to win 50k in GSL you pretty much play for a month and abandon any hopes of going to play in other tournaments outside of Korea.
This
That is a great point. Totally forgot that MLG is only two days long. It is basically a massive event rather than a life changing commitment like going to compete in the GSL, living in Korea.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
This is false. Please stop spreading misinformation like that.
Wow that is insane, major props to MLG for getting that large of a prize pool, it sums up to roughly $200,000 dollars of prize money for starcraft 2 from MLG in the 2011 circuit!
i wish the National finals were only for high ranked players and not sign ups, the 5 they have is more than enough, would love if the national finals was just all the big names from the 5 others
On February 04 2011 04:11 SmoKim wrote: i wish the National finals were only for high ranked players and not sign ups, the 5 they have is more than enough, would love if the national finals was just all the big names from the 5 others
Leaving it open gives a huge incentive for players to go, though. Foreign players are unlikely to travel for a 5000 dollar first place prize, but I could see even Koreans coming out for a potential 50k for a weekends worth. Having a large prize pool will likely get tons of good players for nationals, so that's exciting.
On February 04 2011 03:47 legatus legionis wrote: Shibby - "With 3 mainstages, the Old Spice Swagger matches, over 700 competitors, spawn across 6 major titles in the business. 5 regular stops and one grand final for the Pro Circuit. For those of you who weren't so good at maths in school, that is one major event every 2 months, bit by bit. The MLG is looking like a top seed, for this years e-sports events. The pressure is on, IEM you better not be sleeping......
It looks like this is the championship bracket format, at least as announced for 2009 (I can't confirm if the same format was used for 2010, or even if they changed it for 2009 - MLG has taken down all their 2010 sites):
Edit: This is not the specific format for 2011; there will be a championship bracket and open bracket but in a different format (they haven't announced details yet). I'll leave it up so no-one gets confused by disappearing posts, but this is out of date.
On February 04 2011 10:07 MLG-Lies wrote: Guys, that was the format for Halo 3 two years ago. We haven't announced the bracket format for 2011, but I can tell you that it won't be the same as it was in 2009.
It can be a bit odd (but, then, so is GSL). It gives a massive advantage to the 16 seeded players, who would play 5-10 rounds to win while open bracket players would play 15-20 rounds to win.
Basically, there is the Open Bracket (256 Player, Double Elim, Not Shown above) and the Championship Bracket (16 seeded players, 16 through Open Bracket)
For the Open Bracket, they play (given the image) through 6 rounds of the Winner's Bracket and 8 rounds of the Loser's Bracket. This leaves 16 players: 4 players in the Winner's Bracket. ("C") 4 players that lost in WBR6 and haven't played in Loser's Bracket (They would play in LBR10) ("B") 8 players that have played in the Loser's Bracket (making it to LBR9) ("A")
Championship Bracket:
16 seeded players are in the winner's bracket. The losers of the WBR1 and WBR2 are put in a placement bracket (PBR). WBR1 Losers go in PBR1. WBR2 Losers go in PBR2. WBR3 and Winner's Bracket Finals (WBR4) Losers go into the Loser's Bracket.
"A" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR1 "B" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR2 "C" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR3 PBR1 Losers go in LBR4 PBR2 Losers go in LBR5 PBR2 Winners go in LBR6 WBR3 Losers go in LBR8 WBR4 Losers go in the Loser's Bracket Finals (LBR10)
And then Winner's Bracket and Loser's Bracket winners meet in the Grand Finals.
huge news for the sc2 scene. That' some real cash there, hope to see some high level players from everywhere show up for these events, especially the nationals. Can't wait for the mlg season now, I think with that type of money up for grabs the pro's are going to have to train extra hard to keep up with the competition.
On February 04 2011 04:38 TofuFox wrote: It looks like this is the championship bracket format, at least as announced for 2009 (I can't confirm if the same format was used for 2010, or even if they changed it for 2009 - MLG has taken down all their 2010 sites):
It can be a bit odd (but, then, so is GSL). It gives a massive advantage to the 16 seeded players, who would play 5-10 rounds to win while open bracket players would play 15-20 rounds to win.
Basically, there is the Open Bracket (256 Player, Double Elim, Not Shown above) and the Championship Bracket (16 seeded players, 16 through Open Bracket)
For the Open Bracket, they play (given the image) through 6 rounds of the Winner's Bracket and 8 rounds of the Loser's Bracket. This leaves 16 players: 4 players in the Winner's Bracket. ("C") 4 players that lost in WBR6 and haven't played in Loser's Bracket (They would play in LBR10) ("B") 8 players that have played in the Loser's Bracket (making it to LBR9) ("A")
Championship Bracket:
16 seeded players are in the winner's bracket. The losers of the WBR1 and WBR2 are put in a placement bracket (PBR). WBR1 Losers go in PBR1. WBR2 Losers go in PBR2. WBR3 and Winner's Bracket Finals (WBR4) Losers go into the Loser's Bracket.
"A" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR1 "B" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR2 "C" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR3 PBR1 Losers go in LBR4 PBR2 Losers go in LBR5 PBR2 Winners go in LBR6 WBR3 Losers go in LBR8 WBR4 Losers go in the Loser's Bracket Finals (LBR10)
And then Winner's Bracket and Loser's Bracket winners meet in the Grand Finals.
They didn't use that in 2010 MLG Dallas (SC2) and will not use that in 2011
On February 04 2011 04:11 SmoKim wrote: i wish the National finals were only for high ranked players and not sign ups, the 5 they have is more than enough, would love if the national finals was just all the big names from the 5 others
Leaving it open gives a huge incentive for players to go, though. Foreign players are unlikely to travel for a 5000 dollar first place prize, but I could see even Koreans coming out for a potential 50k for a weekends worth. Having a large prize pool will likely get tons of good players for nationals, so that's exciting.
This is so awesome! I love how their is 272 spots open... these tournaments will be the best of the year by far in NA and the staging and everything should be incredible compared to last year as it is now *equal* to halo.
This + EG announcement could make the US the center of sc2 as far as where to be to get the cash... I want to see some koreans move out to the US, like a reverse IdrA!
Yes! This is great news. MLG is my favorite tournament series for SC2. I do hope that some Koreans will start coming out to it. Honestly, they should have Korean stream. That would bring in some more cash =)
On February 04 2011 04:45 syllogism wrote: They didn't use that in 2010 MLG Dallas (SC2) and will not use that in 2011
2010 SC2 was all standard Double-Elim brackets (64 players at Raleigh/DC, 128 Dallas). That was a test run, however, they are using a 256/16 Open/Championship bracket system for SC2 for 2011:
On February 04 2011 02:35 MLG_Adam wrote: SC2 will be treated like every other pro circuit title: championship bracket. Look for 256 open plus 16 pre seeded pro players already in the money bracket. That is why regular season is important.
On February 04 2011 04:38 TofuFox wrote: It looks like this is the championship bracket format, at least as announced for 2009 (I can't confirm if the same format was used for 2010, or even if they changed it for 2009 - MLG has taken down all their 2010 sites):
It can be a bit odd (but, then, so is GSL). It gives a massive advantage to the 16 seeded players, who would play 5-10 rounds to win while open bracket players would play 15-20 rounds to win.
Basically, there is the Open Bracket (256 Player, Double Elim, Not Shown above) and the Championship Bracket (16 seeded players, 16 through Open Bracket)
For the Open Bracket, they play (given the image) through 6 rounds of the Winner's Bracket and 8 rounds of the Loser's Bracket. This leaves 16 players: 4 players in the Winner's Bracket. ("C") 4 players that lost in WBR6 and haven't played in Loser's Bracket (They would play in LBR10) ("B") 8 players that have played in the Loser's Bracket (making it to LBR9) ("A")
Championship Bracket:
16 seeded players are in the winner's bracket. The losers of the WBR1 and WBR2 are put in a placement bracket (PBR). WBR1 Losers go in PBR1. WBR2 Losers go in PBR2. WBR3 and Winner's Bracket Finals (WBR4) Losers go into the Loser's Bracket.
"A" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR1 "B" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR2 "C" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR3 PBR1 Losers go in LBR4 PBR2 Losers go in LBR5 PBR2 Winners go in LBR6 WBR3 Losers go in LBR8 WBR4 Losers go in the Loser's Bracket Finals (LBR10)
And then Winner's Bracket and Loser's Bracket winners meet in the Grand Finals.
They didn't use that in 2010 MLG Dallas (SC2) and will not use that in 2011
I'm just curious, how do you know that they won't be using that for Starcraft for 2011? Is there an information page somewhere you are referencing or perhaps a post from an MLG staff member?
On February 04 2011 04:38 TofuFox wrote: It looks like this is the championship bracket format, at least as announced for 2009 (I can't confirm if the same format was used for 2010, or even if they changed it for 2009 - MLG has taken down all their 2010 sites):
It can be a bit odd (but, then, so is GSL). It gives a massive advantage to the 16 seeded players, who would play 5-10 rounds to win while open bracket players would play 15-20 rounds to win.
Basically, there is the Open Bracket (256 Player, Double Elim, Not Shown above) and the Championship Bracket (16 seeded players, 16 through Open Bracket)
For the Open Bracket, they play (given the image) through 6 rounds of the Winner's Bracket and 8 rounds of the Loser's Bracket. This leaves 16 players: 4 players in the Winner's Bracket. ("C") 4 players that lost in WBR6 and haven't played in Loser's Bracket (They would play in LBR10) ("B") 8 players that have played in the Loser's Bracket (making it to LBR9) ("A")
Championship Bracket:
16 seeded players are in the winner's bracket. The losers of the WBR1 and WBR2 are put in a placement bracket (PBR). WBR1 Losers go in PBR1. WBR2 Losers go in PBR2. WBR3 and Winner's Bracket Finals (WBR4) Losers go into the Loser's Bracket.
"A" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR1 "B" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR2 "C" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR3 PBR1 Losers go in LBR4 PBR2 Losers go in LBR5 PBR2 Winners go in LBR6 WBR3 Losers go in LBR8 WBR4 Losers go in the Loser's Bracket Finals (LBR10)
And then Winner's Bracket and Loser's Bracket winners meet in the Grand Finals.
They didn't use that in 2010 MLG Dallas (SC2) and will not use that in 2011
I'm just curious, how do you know that they won't be using that for Starcraft for 2011? Is there an information page somewhere you are referencing or perhaps a post from an MLG staff member?
I mistakenly assumed they wouldn't make the same mistake twice. That is to say use a system directly imported from Halo.
So haters gonna hate. It's simply amazing that within a year, starcraft 2 has grown to the status where sponsors are willing to shell out 50k for a final, which is way bigger than what they had last year.
And as a "League" format, it's very plausible that people who had done well in "regular season" have fair rewards for performing well consistently. So please, people who have a huge problem with this stop bringing Halo as a bullseye for your hate, and instead focus on a real constructive suggestion.
On February 04 2011 04:38 TofuFox wrote: It looks like this is the championship bracket format, at least as announced for 2009 (I can't confirm if the same format was used for 2010, or even if they changed it for 2009 - MLG has taken down all their 2010 sites):
It can be a bit odd (but, then, so is GSL). It gives a massive advantage to the 16 seeded players, who would play 5-10 rounds to win while open bracket players would play 15-20 rounds to win.
Basically, there is the Open Bracket (256 Player, Double Elim, Not Shown above) and the Championship Bracket (16 seeded players, 16 through Open Bracket)
For the Open Bracket, they play (given the image) through 6 rounds of the Winner's Bracket and 8 rounds of the Loser's Bracket. This leaves 16 players: 4 players in the Winner's Bracket. ("C") 4 players that lost in WBR6 and haven't played in Loser's Bracket (They would play in LBR10) ("B") 8 players that have played in the Loser's Bracket (making it to LBR9) ("A")
Championship Bracket:
16 seeded players are in the winner's bracket. The losers of the WBR1 and WBR2 are put in a placement bracket (PBR). WBR1 Losers go in PBR1. WBR2 Losers go in PBR2. WBR3 and Winner's Bracket Finals (WBR4) Losers go into the Loser's Bracket.
"A" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR1 "B" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR2 "C" Players from Open Bracket are placed in LBR3 PBR1 Losers go in LBR4 PBR2 Losers go in LBR5 PBR2 Winners go in LBR6 WBR3 Losers go in LBR8 WBR4 Losers go in the Loser's Bracket Finals (LBR10)
And then Winner's Bracket and Loser's Bracket winners meet in the Grand Finals.
Thank you for explaining it. After 3x reading I got the hang of it. If they will do it this way, they'll probably get so much shit from the community though. It just seems overcomplicated for its purpose. I think that the seeding idea for the top-pros is quite nice, but I would like to see the open round players on equal footing after going through all those qualifiers. Basically a normal Double-Elim 32-player bracket. We will see what they have in mind.
On February 04 2011 01:03 OperatoR wrote: Guys, you have to attend the regular events and get a top 8 seeding throughout the season. Once you have accomplished top 8 (accumulated points from previous event placings) you will get a invitation to the nationals. So Koreans will not be able to attend Nationals out of the blue.
This is false. Please stop spreading misinformation like that.
Im not. Its how they ran their tournament for ages. I figured it would be closed invites like halo. Some one from MLG already stated it was open BUT like i suspected they are using the Championship bracket format. Which means if a pro foreigner only comes to the Nationals he would have to play through open bracket (easy) but once he reaches Championship bracket he will be DOWN automatically in the series vs whoever he plays. that is the (extreme advantage) mentioned earlier. Either way... Nationals will have sick turnout.
I feel bad for people who don't get top 16 in the first like, two events though. You guys realize that this isn't halo, where there are only 6 teams that ever compete for the championship, but that there are 40 players that can go on a run to compete for #1. By limiting it to the championship/open bracket style it essentially means only one person in the 256 man bracket will make it out, and promptly get to face the #1 seed. Thats pretty unfair to the ~30 or so pros thatw ill be in the open bracket, fight the games of their lives only to make it as the #16 open seed.
Basically if you don't get top 16 in the first two events, you have almost zero chance to make it to the championship bracket for the rest of the season.
Really hoping Korean Programers come to the championship(or any other events for that matter). Makes me excited to think that Boxer, Nada, or Nestea or MC might come to the U.S and smack noobies around!
I don't understand why the prizes are so different, I think a well respected e-Sport should atleast have the same prize pool as a casual console game..
Like, GSL for example has a decent amount and they get thousands upon thousands of viewers, I don't see why Starcraft is treated kind of like a baby next to halo..
Halo money is split over the 4 person team....SC2 money goes to the one player.
I don't understand why the prizes are so different, I think a well respected e-Sport should atleast have the same prize pool as a casual console game..
Like, GSL for example has a decent amount and they get thousands upon thousands of viewers, I don't see why Starcraft is treated kind of like a baby next to halo..
I don't understand why the prizes are so different, I think a well respected e-Sport should atleast have the same prize pool as a casual console game..
Like, GSL for example has a decent amount and they get thousands upon thousands of viewers, I don't see why Starcraft is treated kind of like a baby next to halo..
There are 4 people to a Halo: Reach team.
A 4 player game does not naturally get 4 times the sponsorship money. The fact that Halo is a 4 player competition could just as easily explain Halo players winning 1/4 the money of SC players. Sponsors have no reason to care that it takes 4 times as many players to put on a Halo match as it does an SC match. If Halo matches and SC matches draw similar crowds, then they justify equal amounts of money from sponsors.
I think what happens is MLG says "$5000 is a big enough first place prize to draw good players" so they budget that for the prize and use the rest of the sponsorship money for other things.
So if SC and Halo are able to bring in equal crowds, then MLG is valuing its SC players at 1/4 the value of Halo players. Halo players would have to be drawing in a crowd worth more than 4 times as much as SC's crowd in order for MLG to be valuing SC players higher than Halo players. That's not happening. MLG just values us lower than them because that's all that matters is having enough prize money to draw the best players. Any more than that is a waste.
its fine for now. thats how high halos prize has been since 2006. it hasn't changed at all, and halo has been there since mlg started. SC has only been in 3 mlg events and it already has similar prizes (even more for championship) than halo. by 2012 if it keeps up, the prizes for sc will be higher than the other games.
I don't understand why the prizes are so different, I think a well respected e-Sport should atleast have the same prize pool as a casual console game..
Like, GSL for example has a decent amount and they get thousands upon thousands of viewers, I don't see why Starcraft is treated kind of like a baby next to halo..
There are 4 people to a Halo: Reach team.
A 4 player game does not naturally get 4 times the sponsorship money. The fact that Halo is a 4 player competition could just as easily explain Halo players winning 1/4 the money of SC players. Sponsors have no reason to care that it takes 4 times as many players to put on a Halo match as it does an SC match. If Halo matches and SC matches draw similar crowds, then they justify equal amounts of money from sponsors.
I think what happens is MLG says "$5000 is a big enough first place prize to draw good players" so they budget that for the prize and use the rest of the sponsorship money for other things.
So if SC and Halo are able to bring in equal crowds, then MLG is valuing its SC players at 1/4 the value of Halo players. Halo players would have to be drawing in a crowd worth more than 4 times as much as SC's crowd in order for MLG to be valuing SC players higher than Halo players. That's not happening. MLG just values us lower than them because that's all that matters is having enough prize money to draw the best players. Any more than that is a waste.
Is this a topic you'll be asking Sundance for clarification on during next week's SotG? It'd be interesting to hear his take on the matter.
On February 04 2011 05:58 doihy wrote: Really hoping Korean Progamers come to the championship(or any other events for that matter). Makes me excited to think that Boxer, Nada, or Nestea or MC might come to the U.S and smack noobies around!
Well 5k certainly isn't enough to bring the very best Korean progamers to MLG I'm sure. I hope they do go for the championships but unless they can participate without being a part of the regular season, I don't see it happening.
To those questioning the open bracket/championship bracket, the fact that players have to fight through an "amateur" bracket is good. It removes alot of the randomness of people cheesing the top players and knocking them out. Also, those who have a poor performance for one tournament, but still perform well in other tournaments won't be punished as badly seed-wise. Basically, this bracket reinforces what MLG has been promoting -- consistency in overall tournament performance.
On February 04 2011 06:42 Kantutan wrote: Well 5k certainly isn't enough to bring the very best Korean progamers to MLG I'm sure. I hope they do go for the championships but unless they can participate without being a part of the regular season, I don't see it happening.
It's almost four times as much as winning code A. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few Koreans make the leap.
As I'll definitely be making the trip to Dallas for the first event of 2011, I'm praying some Koreans go.
On February 04 2011 06:53 FrodaN wrote: To those questioning the open bracket/championship bracket, the fact that players have to fight through an "amateur" bracket is good. It removes alot of the randomness of people cheesing the top players and knocking them out. Also, those who have a poor performance for one tournament, but still perform well in other tournaments won't be punished as badly seed-wise. Basically, this bracket reinforces what MLG has been promoting -- consistency in overall tournament performance.
i have a problem with their recent format. basically there will be 4 players who go undefeated in the open bracket, they will be automatically placed in losers bracket 3 in the Championship bracket. that doesn't seem fair at all, they went undefeated, they should be in the winners bracket.
MLG needs to go back to the traditional 32 player championship bracket where everyone is 0-0 again.
Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't compare MLG SC2 with MLG Halo yet. Eventhough SC2 (CS/Quake) should theoretically have the biggest prize pools because of international appeal (which Halo obviously lacks), SC2 just isn't at that level yet with MLG. Give it another year.
On February 04 2011 06:42 Kantutan wrote: Well 5k certainly isn't enough to bring the very best Korean progamers to MLG I'm sure. I hope they do go for the championships but unless they can participate without being a part of the regular season, I don't see it happening.
It's almost four times as much as winning code A. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few Koreans make the leap.
As I'll definitely be making the trip to Dallas for the first event of 2011, I'm praying some Koreans go.
Well the ultimate goal of a player in Code A isn't to win the prize pool, but to have the opportunity to advance into Code S. Code S is where the real money is at. Look at the money breakdown here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136#1
I think they need to make it 288 players and seed 32 of those. They would need to spend an extra $1600 though and give a $250 travel stipend to the top 32 instead of $400 for the top 16.
Even seeding 32 players, there would be a good number of "name" players in the Open bracket.
On February 04 2011 00:22 DrunkeN. wrote: Bring MLG to Florida!!! Awesome prize pool
I second. I can't make it to neither of the two so far. :/ If they bring it to Orlando or Gainesville I will most likely be able to make it =D Even Miami or Ft.Lauderdale!
Some of the things said in this thread are completely asinine. The prize money for SC2 and Halo per player is exactly the same for all regular season stops, and is double for the finals. Halo and Black Ops are team games - it is extremely important that individual players are paid the same - for the players.
Wow the prize pool is pretty impressive.. big step up MLG! It was already attracting some big names on the foreigner scene but maybe this kind of money could encourage some Korean talent to fly over? (GSL permitting of course) ..
On February 04 2011 07:37 Slasher wrote: Some of the things said in this thread are completely asinine. The prize money for SC2 and Halo per player is exactly the same for all regular season stops, and is double for the finals. Halo and Black Ops are team games - it is extremely important that individual players are paid the same - for the players.
Want Prize money to go up? I have a way for that to happen but it will rely on you guys. Details once I have more of my ducks in a row.
From Sundance, and yes that means prize money for SC2 also.
MLG has obviously done some awesome fundraising, and giving more to SC2 is a great idea. I mean, the nat'l championship has prize money ~equal to gsl, and the individual smaller events beat the hell out of code A! I really hope this helps SC2 grow and attract a larger audience.
I think the championship bracket is going to create more drama than extended series.
Here's what I got out of looking at the convoluted brackets. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Okay the season final is basically MLG's top 16 players (determined by rank points gained in previous MLGs) versus the top 4 from all of the "open bracket". Technically it's the top 16 from the open bracket, but in reality it's 4 because nobody from the open bracket faces one of the top 16 seeds until the open bracket is cut down to four people.
The top 16 seeds then play a triple-elimination bracket. After someone in the top 16 loses their 2nd series, they are put up against an opponent from the open bracket (or another top 16 loser that already defeated one of the open bracket winners). Whoever wins that, advances in the losers bracket.
This means that it will be INCREDIBLY difficult for anyone outside the top 16 seeds to win the nationals. If you lose one series and you're from the open bracket you're done. However if you're one of the top 16 seeds you can lose your first 2 series and still make it to the grand finals by winning the rest of them. (although you still need to worry about extended series)
Player fatigue could be a big issue too. You need to survive to LB7 in the championship bracket in order to obtain a payout. This means that if you're from the open bracket, you could win open 256, 128, 64, 32, 16, 8, then win LB4 and LB5 in the championship bracket (both of those series vs top 16 seeds), lose one series in LB6, and not make top 8 so no payout for you. Even with a 8-1 record.
On the other hand, if you're one of the top 16 seeds you can lose your first two series, then win your next 3, lose the one after that, and still be top 8. Even with a 3-3 record.
The grand final will continue to be anticlimactic because the undefeated top 16 seed will continue to have such a massive 2 BO3/5/7 advantage over their opponent.
On February 04 2011 08:06 kNightLite wrote: I think the championship bracket is going to create more drama than extended series.
Here's what I got out of looking at the convoluted brackets. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Okay the season final is basically MLG's top 16 players (determined by rank points gained in previous MLGs) versus the top 4 from all of the "open bracket". Technically it's the top 16 from the open bracket, but in reality it's 4 because nobody from the open bracket faces one of the top 16 seeds until the open bracket is cut down to four people.
The top 16 seeds then play a triple-elimination bracket. After someone in the top 16 loses their 2nd series, they are put up against an opponent from the open bracket (or another top 16 loser that already defeated one of the open bracket winners). Whoever wins that, advances in the losers bracket.
This means that it will be INCREDIBLY difficult for anyone outside the top 16 seeds to win the nationals. If you lose one series and you're from the open bracket you're done (and good luck if you run into a misfortunate extended series). However if you're one of the top 16 seeds you can lose your first 2 series and still make it to the grand finals by winning the rest of them. Player fatigue could be a big issue too; its possible that someone from the open bracket could win 12(!) series in a row, lose one series, and still not make top 8 for a payout.
This is a really good point. And from the looks of it, this will be the format of all of the competitions, not just the national championship. (The site lists the normal events as 272 players, 16 seeds + 256 open = 272.) I could see this being a good idea for the national championship, but for the normal events, I think they at least need to bump up the number of seeds, if not reevaluate the format entirely.
On February 04 2011 07:37 Slasher wrote: Some of the things said in this thread are completely asinine. The prize money for SC2 and Halo per player is exactly the same for all regular season stops, and is double for the finals. Halo and Black Ops are team games - it is extremely important that individual players are paid the same - for the players.
I don't see the importance of players of different games getting paid the same. I think the payout for each game needs to be competitive with other (non MLG) tournaments' payouts, which are different for each game. I think they need to be enough to draw good enough players to have a good competition, which could be different for each game. And I think that the games that carry the Pro Circuit on their shoulders for the lesser games on the circuit ought to give bigger payouts to the players (for example, the SC2 2010 payouts were completely reasonable).
I think MLG has done a good job with the payouts but that has nothing to do with the per player payouts being the same between their biggest games.
On February 04 2011 07:37 Slasher wrote: Some of the things said in this thread are completely asinine. The prize money for SC2 and Halo per player is exactly the same for all regular season stops, and is double for the finals. Halo and Black Ops are team games - it is extremely important that individual players are paid the same - for the players.
The only thing that matters is the total prize purse. If you give Halo 100k and SC 50k then what you are saying is that Halo is twice as important to the sponsors.
On February 04 2011 07:37 Slasher wrote: Some of the things said in this thread are completely asinine. The prize money for SC2 and Halo per player is exactly the same for all regular season stops, and is double for the finals. Halo and Black Ops are team games - it is extremely important that individual players are paid the same - for the players.
I don't see the importance of players of different games getting paid the same. I think the payout for each game needs to be competitive with other (non MLG) tournaments' payouts, which are different for each game. I think they need to be enough to draw good enough players to have a good competition, which could be different for each game. And I think that the games that carry the Pro Circuit on their shoulders for the lesser games on the circuit ought to give bigger payouts to the players (for example, the SC2 2010 payouts were completely reasonable).
I think MLG has done a good job with the payouts but that has nothing to do with the per player payouts being the same between their biggest games.
This is the first time MLG has given equal billing, support, and stages for multiple games at the same time. So I think it's important the players are treated along the same lines with regards to prize money.
I completely agree it needs to be competitive with the non-MLG tournaments because you need the best players to show up. But that magical number is almost always impossible to define nor denote specifically. All of North America, TL and most of the high-profile Europeans came to the MLG's last year. All of Europe, some Americans and two koreans went to DH, and will be going to Assembly. Maximum prize money for these has been around ironically $14,000. So if lets say we wanted the Koreans to go to MLG, maybe the prize purse is good enough. If it's not, how much more is needed? And aside from that, how many multiple other factors are in place (MLG's exposure and branding being more important than prize money, lure of America for Koreans besides Blizzcon, players have to get knocked out of GSL first to attend, other Korean tournaments, sponsor availability, etc etc).
I don't understand why the prizes are so different, I think a well respected e-Sport should atleast have the same prize pool as a casual console game..
Like, GSL for example has a decent amount and they get thousands upon thousands of viewers, I don't see why Starcraft is treated kind of like a baby next to halo..
There are 4 people to a Halo: Reach team.
A 4 player game does not naturally get 4 times the sponsorship money. The fact that Halo is a 4 player competition could just as easily explain Halo players winning 1/4 the money of SC players. Sponsors have no reason to care that it takes 4 times as many players to put on a Halo match as it does an SC match. If Halo matches and SC matches draw similar crowds, then they justify equal amounts of money from sponsors.
I think what happens is MLG says "$5000 is a big enough first place prize to draw good players" so they budget that for the prize and use the rest of the sponsorship money for other things.
So if SC and Halo are able to bring in equal crowds, then MLG is valuing its SC players at 1/4 the value of Halo players. Halo players would have to be drawing in a crowd worth more than 4 times as much as SC's crowd in order for MLG to be valuing SC players higher than Halo players. That's not happening. MLG just values us lower than them because that's all that matters is having enough prize money to draw the best players. Any more than that is a waste.
This is really good news. MLG is much more important than people who say, "wtv, it's all in the GSL" realize. If MLG isn't big, if it doesn't offer a lot of money, if it doesn't draw the best players from around the world, if it doesn't seek to rival GSL, eSports will not succeed in North America.
This IS the biggest event there is here, and if we want to break away from having everything in Korea, this is what we need.
@NexaS: Clearly you didn't actually read Tyler's argument. To simplify it even more, sponsors only care how many people are watching. If 10,000 people are watching a 1v1 SC match, and 10,000 people are watching a 4v4 Halo match, there's no reason why Halo's total prize pool should be 4x larger than SC2. Instead, the total prize pools should be equal, irrelevant of how much it's split up. I think Tyler is saying that the reason why they aren't equal is because it's cheaper to lure pro SC2 players to MLG than it is to lure a 4-man halo squad. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Another way to look at is that if you are #8 in SC2 you make money equal to Halo player #32.
Man being the US makes me sad, yeah the prize money is great but i would LOVE MLG to say: we are having an MLG SC2 League, it will take place in Nameatown. there will by 5 tournaments a year for 5k for 1st each, all of them will be in Nameatown. so we can start centralizing a NA starcraft2 place.
On February 04 2011 09:14 kNightLite wrote: @NexaS: Clearly you didn't actually read Tyler's argument. To simplify it even more, sponsors only care how many people are watching. If 10,000 people are watching a 1v1 SC match, and 10,000 people are watching a 4v4 Halo match, there's no reason why Halo's total prize pool should be 4x larger than SC2. Instead, the total prize pools should be equal, irrelevant of how much it's split up. I think Tyler is saying that the reason why they aren't equal is because it's cheaper to lure pro SC2 players to MLG than it is to lure a 4-man halo squad. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Another way to look at is that if you are #8 in SC2 you make money equal to Halo player #32.
Yeah, you're right, I didn't read it at all. I just wanted to complain on twitter. In fact, I stopped reading your post after the second sentence because I've decided that's how I roll.
I don't see a problem with Halo players receiving the same pay as SC2 players. If anything, it's harder working as a team than it is to work by yourself, so maybe they should get paid even more.
On February 04 2011 09:14 kNightLite wrote: @NexaS: Clearly you didn't actually read Tyler's argument. To simplify it even more, sponsors only care how many people are watching. If 10,000 people are watching a 1v1 SC match, and 10,000 people are watching a 4v4 Halo match, there's no reason why Halo's total prize pool should be 4x larger than SC2. Instead, the total prize pools should be equal, irrelevant of how much it's split up. I think Tyler is saying that the reason why they aren't equal is because it's cheaper to lure pro SC2 players to MLG than it is to lure a 4-man halo squad. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Another way to look at is that if you are #8 in SC2 you make money equal to Halo player #32.
Yeah, you're right, I didn't read it at all. I just wanted to complain on twitter. In fact, I stopped reading your post after the second sentence because I've decided that's how I roll.
Uh no offense but we're your customers. If you want to disagree with us (or ignore us) that's fine, but if you're going to officially respond to customer feedback you should probably read it first.
MLG has done a phenomenal job supporting the SC2 community, but that doesn't mean it should be immune to criticism or change.
On February 04 2011 09:14 kNightLite wrote: @NexaS: Clearly you didn't actually read Tyler's argument. To simplify it even more, sponsors only care how many people are watching. If 10,000 people are watching a 1v1 SC match, and 10,000 people are watching a 4v4 Halo match, there's no reason why Halo's total prize pool should be 4x larger than SC2. Instead, the total prize pools should be equal, irrelevant of how much it's split up. I think Tyler is saying that the reason why they aren't equal is because it's cheaper to lure pro SC2 players to MLG than it is to lure a 4-man halo squad. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Another way to look at is that if you are #8 in SC2 you make money equal to Halo player #32.
Yeah, you're right, I didn't read it at all. I just wanted to complain on twitter. In fact, I stopped reading your post after the second sentence because I've decided that's how I roll.
Uh no offense but we're your customers. If you want to disagree with us (or ignore us) that's fine, but if you're going to officially respond to customer feedback you should probably read it first.
MLG has done a phenomenal job supporting the SC2 community, but that doesn't mean it should be immune to criticism or change.
I was linking a reply from MLGLee to me on twitter.
God damn, that's a lot of money. Now all that's missing is a similarly-sized tournament in Europe and Australia, and we can have a SC2 Grand Slam of sorts.
On February 04 2011 09:14 kNightLite wrote: @NexaS: Clearly you didn't actually read Tyler's argument. To simplify it even more, sponsors only care how many people are watching. If 10,000 people are watching a 1v1 SC match, and 10,000 people are watching a 4v4 Halo match, there's no reason why Halo's total prize pool should be 4x larger than SC2. Instead, the total prize pools should be equal, irrelevant of how much it's split up. I think Tyler is saying that the reason why they aren't equal is because it's cheaper to lure pro SC2 players to MLG than it is to lure a 4-man halo squad. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Another way to look at is that if you are #8 in SC2 you make money equal to Halo player #32.
Yeah, you're right, I didn't read it at all. I just wanted to complain on twitter. In fact, I stopped reading your post after the second sentence because I've decided that's how I roll.
Uh no offense but we're your customers. If you want to disagree with us (or ignore us) that's fine, but if you're going to officially respond to customer feedback you should probably read it first.
MLG has done a phenomenal job supporting the SC2 community, but that doesn't mean it should be immune to criticism or change.
All the MLG employees posting on these forums have MLG in their name.
EDIT: Edit before someone says "Not all of them... XYZ is an MLG employee blah blah blah"
The ones who are officially speaking as MLG employees.
This is putting NA SC2 on the GLOBAL map. Halo-schmaylo. For the people putting up the money (corperate sponsers) they want 1 thing and 1 thing only. If they can push their product to 200,000 people in a 1v1 format, compared to 200,000 people in a 4v4 format, why wouldn't the prize money be equal?
Remember - no prize pool, no compititon. Let the sponsers do what they want with the money - its theirs to give away.
it would be cool if the regular season was like 10k-15k that way they could draw koreans for the regular season. i only see a few if any showing up for regular season.
Honestly though, I think it would be better to move a little bit of the prize money to each individual tournament. This will entice teams to send more players to each of them. But I guess most teams will go anyways, so this isn't that big a deal.
$50,000 is insane. Sure, its for only one tournament, but considering how its decided in a weekend, that is hugeeee. I'm sure there will be some Korean players who will fly over to the MLG and give it a shot, especially the Code A players. Looking forward to seeing how this develops.
Glad to see MLG stepping it up. HuK was talking about the day halo players will say "dont worry its only sc2". It seems like that will be soon. Although MLG isn't as prestigious as the GSL, it's certainly cool to see this level of competition in NA.
The cool thing is that MLG put on a great show for Halo. If the production values for SC2 end up being the same as what they do for halo, that can only be a good thing for the viewers.
On February 04 2011 12:23 beat farm wrote: my question
are there booths?
it would be cool if the regular season was like 10k-15k that way they could draw koreans for the regular season. i only see a few if any showing up for regular season.
On February 04 2011 15:47 ControlMonkey wrote: The cool thing is that MLG put on a great show for Halo. If the production values for SC2 end up being the same as what they do for halo, that can only be a good thing for the viewers.
Well they have already said each game is getting it's own main stage. Let's hope.
Wow thats a lot of money. I can't wait to see who it brings in from not only the United States but Europe and Korea. Also I am super happy I live in Dallas!
Yeah it does seem strange. They took the announcement down which had all the prize money amounts for the season. They also took the entire Black Ops page off. I love MLG, but this was slightly less than an organized information release :/
By the way. Just have a look at the attending players, Reach gets alone (if all 208 spaces will be filled) 832 players filling the hall,crowd,sponsor booths. SC2 instead gets "just" 272 players at every live event (if all spaces are filled). Then you have additional people for Halo such as Coaches (nearly every second team has one).
And just saying, "SC2 has more viewers" doesn't count cause you simply don't know any figures of viewers that MLG has, but I would say that Halo viewers are quite a lot, simply cause MLG relies mainly on these numbers, Halo is there since 2004 or 5, count 1+1 now.
Still, I'm surprised that their is BO on the circuit, no one comes to events to watch it (spectators, you have a lot of them for reach), the communities are 80% under 16 and kids. mhm.
I will update the OP when they re-release the information. Maybe they are restructuring it or just a human error deleting the wrong item considering it is their breaking news link on their main website still.
People keep talking about per player payouts, but team games in general are much more of a hassle to get a team together. 4 people + subs that ALL have to be there, if the Prize money isn't big then it is hard to justify sending players out, unlike in SC2 where a Sponsor can send 2-3 players out and all 3 of them have chances of winning prize money, a Reach team must have their 4 players + subs be there and in terms of Prize money, all the players are in the same boat.
This breakdown is the more important thing than the 50k on the top.
the 4th place player in MLG still makes $10,500, compared to 4th at GSL with $3,400.
10.5k is serious money that can help support a progamer while they train, 3.4 is a pat on the back. I applaud this decision and think this will help grow the scene massively.
really good news. especially since the 'spectator politics' of the previous mgl events (free stream & demos) were extremely nice ....looking foward to it C:
On February 04 2011 01:31 oXoCube wrote: You shouldn't be so quick to hate on Halo because Halo is what made MLG what it is. Without halo's success, this tournament doesn't even exist.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't hate halo, I hate halo reach. Also, saying Halo made MLG is kind of an interesting statement considering I believe the WoW 3v3 tournaments got more viewership then halo.
On February 04 2011 01:31 oXoCube wrote: You shouldn't be so quick to hate on Halo because Halo is what made MLG what it is. Without halo's success, this tournament doesn't even exist.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't hate halo, I hate halo reach. Also, saying Halo made MLG is kind of an interesting statement considering I believe the WoW 3v3 tournaments got more viewership then halo.
Halo got MLG on the USA network, G4TV, and Sponsors.
On February 04 2011 08:06 kNightLite wrote: I think the championship bracket is going to create more drama than extended series.
Here's what I got out of looking at the convoluted brackets. Please correct me if I'm wrong. -explanation-
I agree. Becoming one of the 16 "pro" players will give a ridiculous advantage, almost arbitrarily, because the 17th player is probably not going to be significantly less deserving of the top16 spot than the 16th player. Furthermore, the game and the players can evolve a lot over the course of the year. More likely than not you will end up with players who the community will agree should be in the top16, but aren't. This is made even worse by the fact that in SC2, unlike Halo, MLG isn't the only game in town, and therefore their tournaments alone are not a good way to rank players.
In my opinion a simple ranking / seeding system works MUCH better, and you could supplement that with an open bracket, similar to how DH does a BYOC qualifier, to increase the number of participants without making the pros play a ridiculous amount of games.
This champion bracket system completely falls apart as soon as you start having some of the best players outside of it. What if Jinro qualifies for the top16, and MVP only shows up for the finals, then Jinro has to lose three BO3 (or whatever) while MVP can only lose ONE BO3 before he's eliminated, assuming he makes it into the top32. Who would want the tournament to be structured like that?
Seeding is one thing, it attempts to make it so the best players meet further into the tournament, but this MLG system is ridiculous, it gives more "lives" to some players. It's not competition on an even ground, it's silly.
On February 04 2011 08:06 kNightLite wrote: I think the championship bracket is going to create more drama than extended series.
Here's what I got out of looking at the convoluted brackets. Please correct me if I'm wrong. -explanation-
This champion bracket system completely falls apart as soon as you start having some of the best players outside of it. What if Jinro qualifies for the top16, and MVP only shows up for the finals, then Jinro has to lose three BO3 (or whatever) while MVP can only lose ONE BO3 before he's eliminated, assuming he makes it into the top32. Who would want the tournament to be structured like that?
Seeding is one thing, it attempts to make it so the best players meet further into the tournament, but this MLG system is ridiculous, it gives more "lives" to some players. It's not competition on an even ground, it's silly.
On February 04 2011 08:06 kNightLite wrote: I think the championship bracket is going to create more drama than extended series.
Here's what I got out of looking at the convoluted brackets. Please correct me if I'm wrong. -explanation-
This champion bracket system completely falls apart as soon as you start having some of the best players outside of it. What if Jinro qualifies for the top16, and MVP only shows up for the finals, then Jinro has to lose three BO3 (or whatever) while MVP can only lose ONE BO3 before he's eliminated, assuming he makes it into the top32. Who would want the tournament to be structured like that?
Seeding is one thing, it attempts to make it so the best players meet further into the tournament, but this MLG system is ridiculous, it gives more "lives" to some players. It's not competition on an even ground, it's silly.
Where are you getting this from?
Look at MLG's championship bracket system. If you're a top 16 seed you can lose your first two series and still make it all the way to the finals. Whereas if you get into the championship bracket via top 16 in the open bracket, you're automatically put into the loser's bracket (even if you havent lost a single game) so if you drop a single BO3 you're done.
yup this was the new system implemented last year for halo. they need to revert to the old classic championship bracket where all 32 teams (16 pro and 16 open) are at 0-0
Way to go mlg!! I went to mlg Raleigh and it was a blast. Really hope u guys r coming back. This is real big for e-sports outside of S.Korea and shows that u can make a living playing video games now. Hope there is more to come and with annoucements like this you can only expect so. I do believe this is the dawn of e-sports in the USA . We can only hope and see.
On February 04 2011 08:06 kNightLite wrote: I think the championship bracket is going to create more drama than extended series.
Here's what I got out of looking at the convoluted brackets. Please correct me if I'm wrong. -explanation-
This champion bracket system completely falls apart as soon as you start having some of the best players outside of it. What if Jinro qualifies for the top16, and MVP only shows up for the finals, then Jinro has to lose three BO3 (or whatever) while MVP can only lose ONE BO3 before he's eliminated, assuming he makes it into the top32. Who would want the tournament to be structured like that?
Seeding is one thing, it attempts to make it so the best players meet further into the tournament, but this MLG system is ridiculous, it gives more "lives" to some players. It's not competition on an even ground, it's silly.
Where are you getting this from?
Look at MLG's championship bracket system. If you're a top 16 seed you can lose your first two series and still make it all the way to the finals. Whereas if you get into the championship bracket via top 16 in the open bracket, you're automatically put into the loser's bracket (even if you havent lost a single game) so if you drop a single BO3 you're done.
No, It's a double elimination bracket. If you lose your first series you're put in the loser bracket, and if you lose your second series, you're out of the tournament. You than play another series to determine your placing.
So NO losing 3 series in a row won't allow you to still have a run at the finals.
Guys, there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding circulating about the bracket. As I've said several times, we haven't announced the format for 2011, and most of what is being brought up is terribly incorrect.
On February 07 2011 02:13 Sixxor wrote: So I haven't been able to find an answer to this but as a spectator you don't have to pay to get into MLG's correct?
On February 07 2011 02:13 Sixxor wrote: So I haven't been able to find an answer to this but as a spectator you don't have to pay to get into MLG's correct?
IIRC its 25$ spectator pass
Yep, but you'll get at least $25 in free stuff plus a whole weekend of gaming so its pretty much free ^^
On February 07 2011 02:13 Sixxor wrote: So I haven't been able to find an answer to this but as a spectator you don't have to pay to get into MLG's correct?
IIRC its 25$ spectator pass
Yep, but you'll get at least $25 in free stuff plus a whole weekend of gaming so its pretty much free ^^
25$ for 3 days of SC2, Free hotpockets, Gum, Dr Pepper, beef jerky, and more.
On February 07 2011 02:40 nebulak187 wrote: 5 for the normals and 50 for the championship? i'd like if it was more evenly distributed maybe just under 10k and 30k?
This is done for a specific reason. Championship has overall 100% better players. The best only deserve the shot. By points you can get into the championship. Rewarding those who play in their tournaments and at the end competing a bit with the GSL and IEM. Also unless they only have 4 tournaments a year your price scaling would put them over their money budget(i'm not sure how many events they have, but +5k per even -20k from the main event leaves only room for 4 tournaments). GSL is doing the same thing because anyone can show up to one event and win. This will influence people to show up to many events, so they can achieve the grand prize.
On February 07 2011 02:13 Sixxor wrote: So I haven't been able to find an answer to this but as a spectator you don't have to pay to get into MLG's correct?
IIRC its 25$ spectator pass
Yep, but you'll get at least $25 in free stuff plus a whole weekend of gaming so its pretty much free ^^
25$ for 3 days of SC2, Free hotpockets, Gum, Dr Pepper, beef jerky, and more.
Sounds worth it to me!
... so it sounds like i lose money if i don't go.. i like the sound of this. i'm going.
do we know if there will be a TL meet up? cant see why they wouldn't have one.
On February 04 2011 00:47 s.a.y wrote: GSL just got competition.
I doubt it,the money is there but where is the suspense and the prestige?
Bigger prize money -> better players -> more prestige. Give it time
GSL has a season / month. I don't think this tournament will work that way, or will it?
Also, GSL has the koreans, which are the best in the world, not saying foreigners aren't good, but they're probably not better than the koreans (yet? =D).
On February 08 2011 21:24 ntvarify wrote: 50,000 for the National Championship!
All in, 120,000 for the national championship -- 50,000 is just first place.
On February 08 2011 23:52 Tschis wrote: GSL has a season / month. I don't think this tournament will work that way, or will it?
//tx
MLG's structure is a 6 events a year. 5 regular season events and one national championship. Each event is 2.5 days of competition. Our season is the entire year.
Sounds great. I like the seeded 16 system too. If mvp wants to get seeded, he just has to come out and win a regional. Prize money is high enough to pay for the trip, and 3 days is not a huge time commitment. If you don't like being at a disadvantage in the championship, then win tournaments.
On February 09 2011 08:55 titaniumnuts wrote: Sounds great. I like the seeded 16 system too. If mvp wants to get seeded, he just has to come out and win a regional. Prize money is high enough to pay for the trip, and 3 days is not a huge time commitment. If you don't like being at a disadvantage in the championship, then win tournaments.
love it! i really hope they'll also get booths like in GSL and everything and it'll be purely amazing. Hopefully a lot of good players will participate, cant wait to watch it
On February 14 2011 14:14 soup0 wrote: AWESOME!!! DALLAS AGAIN YES!!!
i wanted to go to the last one in dallas sooooooo bad but i couldn't make it up there in time
no way in heck i'm missing this one! SWEET!
Same here!! I couldn't make it that weekend but really hoping I can make it to this one. I was worried they wouldn't do another one in Dallas since they already did it last year, but this is fantastic!
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/bbJxe.jpg)
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