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On December 07 2010 04:21 hitman133 wrote: Somehow I think European gamers are much more entertaining than Korean. But well, it's b/c of money I understand.
Yeah that could true. Its like how some people find college football more entertaining than NFL, even though NFL has a much higher skill level.
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United States238 Posts
On December 07 2010 04:21 hitman133 wrote: Somehow I think European gamers are much more entertaining than Korean. But well, it's b/c of money I understand.
If you have 87k US dollars or 65k Euro on the line if you get the first place, do you really want to take the chance of losing in order to make the match more entertaining, or do you want to do whatever it takes to get to the first place?
It's probable that if there was an European tournament where rewards are as big as GSL is, the European players would suddenly turn to strategies that can get them the maximum chance of winning.
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Nestea should've won. I think Nestea defense of the 2 rax push today was abysmal. His decision of when to attack was horrible, especially the last game. I suppose the nerves got to him... Don't like the way Rain been playing, but he pulled it off, and deserved his wins. As for FD, i think he lost the mind battle against Hongun. He would've lost the first game too had he not spotted the two proxy stargates (he was going roach warren I believe) . Well done by Hongun.
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HongUn's games certainly were entertaining though.
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On December 07 2010 04:33 AgentV wrote: Nestea should've won. I think Nestea defense of the 2 rax push today was abysmal. His decision of when to attack was horrible, especially the last game. I suppose the nerves got to him... Don't like the way Rain been playing, but he pulled it off, and deserved his wins. As for FD, i think he lost the mind battle against Hongun. He would've lost the first game too had he not spotted the two proxy stargates (he was going roach warren I believe) . Well done by Hongun.
Its so funny how you contradict yourself. Do you read what you wrote before you hit the post button. "Nestea should've won." Followed directly by "I think Nestea defence of the 2 rax push today was abysmal." And later by "Rain...but he pulled it off, and deserves his wins."
LOL
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On December 07 2010 04:27 Selith wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:21 hitman133 wrote: Somehow I think European gamers are much more entertaining than Korean. But well, it's b/c of money I understand. If you have 87k US dollars or 65k Euro on the line if you get the first place, do you really want to take the chance of losing in order to make the match more entertaining, or do you want to do whatever it takes to get to the first place?
If you go into a tournament with the mentality like this you will never become a legend, plus you are making a bad name for yourself too. I would rather see a player that shows skill than a player that wins a tournament by cheesing and all in's. SlayerS_BoxeR made more money without winning a GSL, through sponsorship. This is my humble opinion.
Go Jinro!!! Jinroll them 
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United States238 Posts
On December 07 2010 04:45 Avatar360 wrote:If you go into a tournament with the mentality like this you will never become a legend, plus you are making a bad name for yourself too. I would rather see a player that shows skill than a player that wins a tournament by cheesing and all in's. SlayerS_BoxeR made more money without winning a GSL, through sponsorship. This is my humble opinion. Go Jinro!!! Jinroll them 
Good point.
Truth to be said, TSL_Rain has been getting some flak not because of this incident alone, but his matches so far has been consistently been all-ins or cheese rushes.
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On December 07 2010 04:45 Avatar360 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:27 Selith wrote:On December 07 2010 04:21 hitman133 wrote: Somehow I think European gamers are much more entertaining than Korean. But well, it's b/c of money I understand. If you have 87k US dollars or 65k Euro on the line if you get the first place, do you really want to take the chance of losing in order to make the match more entertaining, or do you want to do whatever it takes to get to the first place? If you go into a tournament with the mentality like this you will never become a legend, plus you are making a bad name for yourself too. I would rather see a player that shows skill than a player that wins a tournament by cheesing and all in's. SlayerS_BoxeR made more money without winning a GSL, through sponsorship. This is my humble opinion. Go Jinro!!! Jinroll them 
Lol... You have no idea how hard it is to live being a pro-gamer do you? Slayers_boxer and nada can lose all the games they want cuz they make like 250K a year on contracts... They couldn't care less about winning GSL.
Rain doesn't have that. He needs to do what ever he can to win.
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On December 07 2010 04:47 riverkim09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:45 Avatar360 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:27 Selith wrote:On December 07 2010 04:21 hitman133 wrote: Somehow I think European gamers are much more entertaining than Korean. But well, it's b/c of money I understand. If you have 87k US dollars or 65k Euro on the line if you get the first place, do you really want to take the chance of losing in order to make the match more entertaining, or do you want to do whatever it takes to get to the first place? If you go into a tournament with the mentality like this you will never become a legend, plus you are making a bad name for yourself too. I would rather see a player that shows skill than a player that wins a tournament by cheesing and all in's. SlayerS_BoxeR made more money without winning a GSL, through sponsorship. This is my humble opinion. Go Jinro!!! Jinroll them  Lol... You have no idea how hard it is to live being a pro-gamer do you? Slayers_boxer and nada can lose all the games they want cuz they make like 250K a year on contracts... They couldn't care less about winning GSL. Rain doesn't have that. He needs to do what ever he can to win.
i dont think nada has a 250k contract now
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On December 07 2010 04:55 jaiBing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:47 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:45 Avatar360 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:27 Selith wrote:On December 07 2010 04:21 hitman133 wrote: Somehow I think European gamers are much more entertaining than Korean. But well, it's b/c of money I understand. If you have 87k US dollars or 65k Euro on the line if you get the first place, do you really want to take the chance of losing in order to make the match more entertaining, or do you want to do whatever it takes to get to the first place? If you go into a tournament with the mentality like this you will never become a legend, plus you are making a bad name for yourself too. I would rather see a player that shows skill than a player that wins a tournament by cheesing and all in's. SlayerS_BoxeR made more money without winning a GSL, through sponsorship. This is my humble opinion. Go Jinro!!! Jinroll them  Lol... You have no idea how hard it is to live being a pro-gamer do you? Slayers_boxer and nada can lose all the games they want cuz they make like 250K a year on contracts... They couldn't care less about winning GSL. Rain doesn't have that. He needs to do what ever he can to win. i dont think nada has a 250k contract now
Maybe not with WeMadeFox but he does with somewhere else i heard.
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I love that people are just now realizing that the game of SC2 features extremely subpar defensive options compared to the strength of attacking/timing pushes.
SCV/Marine rushing has nothing to do with Cheese Rushing because it is a scouted, calculated maneuver with a high probability of success. It also gives the Terran the absolute best option to make it to the mid-late game in a strong position, because there is no safer way for him to match a Zerg in a macro sense. Terrans Marine rush because the game favors that style of play and has since release.
This isn't a trend that is going to fix itself, even with racial rebalancing. We're just going to see new flavors of time attacks spring up separated by short phases of "racial dominance" where one relatively overpowered race (like current Zerg) tends to win in an equilibrium (as all top players currently admit that ZvX is zerg-favored in a macro game).
The fact of the matter is that each of the major periods of the game have been dominated by timing attacks, minus the extremely small window the GSL2 where Zerg had received a number of major buffs compared to Terran and other races were still in the process of figuring out the ideal way to handle this and when to strike with X number of forces.
Without stronger defensive options and better entrenches positions (and benefits to entrenching), we are likely to see more and more timing attacks as players get better and better at exposing holes in BOs.
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On December 07 2010 05:03 tedster wrote: I love that people are just now realizing that the game of SC2 features extremely subpar defensive options compared to the strength of attacking/timing pushes.
SCV/Marine rushing has nothing to do with Cheese Rushing because it is a scouted, calculated maneuver with a high probability of success. It also gives the Terran the absolute best option to make it to the mid-late game in a strong position, because there is no safer way for him to match a Zerg in a macro sense. Terrans Marine rush because the game favors that style of play and has since release.
This isn't a trend that is going to fix itself, even with racial rebalancing. We're just going to see new flavors of time attacks spring up separated by short phases of "racial dominance" where one relatively overpowered race (like current Zerg) tends to win in an equilibrium (as all top players currently admit that ZvX is zerg-favored in a macro game).
The fact of the matter is that each of the major periods of the game have been dominated by timing attacks, minus the extremely small window the GSL2 where Zerg had received a number of major buffs compared to Terran and other races were still in the process of figuring out the ideal way to handle this and when to strike with X number of forces.
Without stronger defensive options and better entrenches positions (and benefits to entrenching), we are likely to see more and more timing attacks as players get better and better at exposing holes in BOs.
Correct. Zerg players, stop saying its cheese.
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On December 07 2010 01:33 Dont Panic wrote: Proxy stargate makes for entertaining games? In my eyes, much more than normal macro games from e.g. Idra.
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For everyone worrying about Terran cheese...
Lol you must not remember BW.
Remember when everyone SCREAMED Terran was broken after Flash's bunker rush strategy vs Protoss? Or when the legendary Lim Yo Hwan did the also-LEGENDARY triple bunker rush vs Yellow? At that time, everyone thought it was IMPOSSIBLE to beat... but look at what's happened now. It's so rare we don't even see it anymore, and if it does (*cough Flash cough*) it often fails spectacularly.
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On December 07 2010 01:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 01:22 kojinshugi wrote:On December 07 2010 01:00 MisterPuppy wrote: HongUnPrime.WE, "My goal is to show entertaining games rather than winning."
doesn't work for TLO, probably won't work for you Thanks for your input, GSL semifinal qualifier MisterPuppy. That's not how you apply the godforsaken "let me see you do better" argument but okay, I hope you feel like you burned him good. It should've been Nestea that won, he clearly was the better player. His play was much more solid whereas Rain's builds were more like "I hope this works." As for Fruitdealer vs HongUn, HongUn played like Rain did, only Fruitdealer played even worse. Worst day of the GSL. TSL pretty much ruined Fruitdealer. So because NesTea can't hold off all-ins, he's clearly the better player? TSL_Rain won fair and square, no doubt.
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On December 07 2010 04:43 riverkim09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:33 AgentV wrote: Nestea should've won. I think Nestea defense of the 2 rax push today was abysmal. His decision of when to attack was horrible, especially the last game. I suppose the nerves got to him... Don't like the way Rain been playing, but he pulled it off, and deserved his wins. As for FD, i think he lost the mind battle against Hongun. He would've lost the first game too had he not spotted the two proxy stargates (he was going roach warren I believe) . Well done by Hongun. Its so funny how you contradict yourself. Do you read what you wrote before you hit the post button. "Nestea should've won." Followed directly by "I think Nestea defence of the 2 rax push today was abysmal." And later by "Rain...but he pulled it off, and deserves his wins." LOL lol. What i meant was if Nestea was playing with his full potential and confidence, I don't see how Rain's allin could beat him. But Nestea was not playing well. Still, still takes effort from Rain to pull it off, that's what I meant. I hope there's no more contradiction. :D
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On December 07 2010 03:28 facefart wrote: oh joy...Another terran that likes to all-in...Lets hope MarineKing doesnt make it to the semis also...
I hope next GSL season will get better because this all-in cheesy play is getting old
Pretty sure vs LeenockF0u he had long games and went marine medivac, far from all in , its just a very heavy micro based build which he is obviously better than most at doing... His Marine micro is almost unrivaled and no where near all in....
Micro builds don't all = All-in
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On December 07 2010 05:16 AgentV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:43 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:33 AgentV wrote: Nestea should've won. I think Nestea defense of the 2 rax push today was abysmal. His decision of when to attack was horrible, especially the last game. I suppose the nerves got to him... Don't like the way Rain been playing, but he pulled it off, and deserved his wins. As for FD, i think he lost the mind battle against Hongun. He would've lost the first game too had he not spotted the two proxy stargates (he was going roach warren I believe) . Well done by Hongun. Its so funny how you contradict yourself. Do you read what you wrote before you hit the post button. "Nestea should've won." Followed directly by "I think Nestea defence of the 2 rax push today was abysmal." And later by "Rain...but he pulled it off, and deserves his wins." LOL lol. What i meant was if Nestea was playing with his full potential and confidence, I don't see how Rain's allin could beat him. But Nestea was not playing well. Still, still takes effort from Rain to pull it off, that's what I meant. I hope there's no more contradiction. :D
Oh okay. Now it does. Lol I was confused before the clear-up.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Thanks for the translations, Selith.
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What is this? Both
+ Show Spoiler +Nestea and Fruitdealer lost? Oh well, at least their winnings will be enough for them for a long time xD.
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