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On July 01 2009 07:40 Yenzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 05:59 Zzoram wrote:On July 01 2009 02:12 Yenzilla wrote:
Not every pirate is the type who doesn't pay for games out of principle Nobody pirates games out of principle. They pirate it because they want it for free. If you don't like a product out of principle, you can choose not to buy it, you don't STEAL it. Man, you completely misconstrued that. You wouldn't pirate a game you don't like to spite it, obviously, but you might (and I know some who believe this) be of the opinion that games, considering what they are, are not things one should need to pay for. It's not paying for games out of the principle that games should be free, not that 'I don't like x' game, that would just be stupid.
How does this contradict what I said? Nobody really believes games should be free, it's just crap they make up to justify to themselves why being a dirty thief is ok, when really it's not and they are still a dirty thief. If you owned a store, and people just shoplifted because they didn't believe your products should cost money, I bet you would be pissed. The Internet just makes it easier to steal, so people decided all of a sudden that products shouldn't cost money.
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Actually, in the other thread, there was at least one person who stated that they didn't believe in intellectual property. I don't agree with the viewpoint either, but some people may actually think that (though, I agree, most are simply giving themselves excuses).
Either way, I don't see why we're arguing this point. I don't, on the whole, agree with piracy (save for the swashbuckling variety, but even then, I like my teeth and lack of scurvy), and I think its stealing also. I'm not justifying anything, I'm just explaining some of the perspectives I've seen when it comes to people who choose to pirate.
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On July 01 2009 07:56 Yenzilla wrote:
Actually, in the other thread, there was at least one person who stated that they didn't believe in intellectual property. I don't agree with the viewpoint either, but some people may actually think that (though, I agree, most are simply giving themselves excuses).
Either way, I don't see why we're arguing this point. I don't, on the whole, agree with piracy (save for the swashbuckling variety, but even then, I like my teeth and lack of scurvy), and I think its stealing also. I'm not justifying anything, I'm just explaining some of the perspectives I've seen when it comes to people who choose to pirate.
That's fine. All I'm saying is that there is no legitimate reason to steal a game instead of paying for it, and all justifications are just to make the thieves feel better about themselves.
I know you're joking, but swashbuckling pirates are pretty damn horrible. They raid innocent ships, steal their cargo, and ransom the ship and crew. In the olden days, they would just kill the crew and take the ship and cargo. It's a shame that Disney felt the need to glorify them.
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On July 01 2009 07:59 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 07:56 Yenzilla wrote:
Actually, in the other thread, there was at least one person who stated that they didn't believe in intellectual property. I don't agree with the viewpoint either, but some people may actually think that (though, I agree, most are simply giving themselves excuses).
Either way, I don't see why we're arguing this point. I don't, on the whole, agree with piracy (save for the swashbuckling variety, but even then, I like my teeth and lack of scurvy), and I think its stealing also. I'm not justifying anything, I'm just explaining some of the perspectives I've seen when it comes to people who choose to pirate. That's fine. All I'm saying is that there is no legitimate reason to steal a game instead of paying for it, and all justifications are just to make the thieves feel better about themselves. I know you're joking, but swashbuckling pirates are pretty damn horrible. They raid innocent ships, steal their cargo, and ransom the ship and crew. In the olden days, they would just kill the crew and take the ship and cargo. It's a shame that Disney felt the need to glorify them.
thats right anyway
starcraft is blizzard's property
=/ whining is just whining, fools where the ones who allowed themselves to create a bond with a software
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Everyone who is talking about piracy are missing the actual point: not our problem. I understand blizzard's desire to squeeze every last drop of $$$ to be squeezed out of this, but it's starcraft man. LAN was what made it big. And sure, most of us will still be able to play bla bla, but for those 5% who won't (like the guy from Bolivia clearly explained), they should add it. They just should and that's that.
You all know that the only reason they're doing this is to prevent things like garena/hamachi to work with SC2. And there's no way around that but to take it out completely. And so they did. Fuck 3rd wold countries, they don't have too much money to spend on our products anyway, right?
...blizzard are jerks.
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Bah, I have my original complaint below in spoilers but after reading http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=96603 I guess I can actually see why Blizz is doing what they are doing.
Here is a question for you all:
1. If I buy the game and want to play it with my wife at home on our 2 computers, do I have to buy 2 copies and 2 copies of all the expansions like it is with WoW or can I just buy one copy and it work over "lan play" (you would still need the CD for single player) like you could with Starcraft 1?
original complaint:
+ Show Spoiler +
I just thought I would throw something out I am sure has already been mentioned...but what the heck.
1. WoW has no lan available. Supposedly "no lan" fixes piracy.
2. But you CAN play WoW without a subscription on private servers if you look for it.
3. This doesn't happen very often because WoW is completely based on people/people interaction (it is a massively multiplayer online game). If there were only 3 ppl on your server, that would be boring as heck.
4. Starcraft in NOT an MMO and therefore point 3 does not apply to it. All you need to enjoy the game is 2 people and some system for finding someone who wants to play.
therefore:
5. Starcraft will be hacked and pirates will still play off of battle.net. Taking out LAN did not fix the problem and all it did is take away from all of us who don't plan on pirating the chance to play on a lan with friends/family.
Boo. Seriously.
Nothing gained and something of value lost.
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how can you have professional gaming leagues which all that lag, even the smallest amount of delay is unacceptable for programing
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On July 02 2009 06:26 poor newb wrote:
how can you have professional gaming leagues which all that lag, even the smallest amount of delay is unacceptable for programing
Because players with have to connect to bnet for authentication only. After that it will be like playing over LAN, at least latency wise.
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On July 01 2009 05:53 barth wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2009 03:13 Pufftrees wrote:Karune is all over BNET today going against the no-lan hate. edit: source http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=18031370482&sid=3000&pageNo=3his first post + Show Spoiler +The first 4 pillars are ALL being made better. 1) Development time for StarCraft II have far exceeded the original StarCraft in both the standard of quality and duration, to ensure the highest in quality RTS experience we can possibly create. 2) Not only is it free to play online, Battle.net 2.0 is designed with the new generation of online community and eSports in mind. 3) As long as there are people playing our games, we will continue to support them, and we have continued with this tradition with our legacy titles like the original StarCraft. 4) StarCraft II was created with eSports as a cornerstone in design philosophy. StarCraft evolved into an eSport. 5) Map Editor will be better than any we have ever released. and: 6) ??? - will have to wait and see  For me personally- I loved LAN parties, but the direction in which Battle.net is headed, I would always choose to play on Battle.net > 99% of the time and even if for whatever reason I did decide to lug my computer to a friend's house in this day of age (<1%), I would still be playing with them on Battle.net against others at their place. [ Post edited by Karune ] his 2nd + Show Spoiler +As mentioned by Rob Pardo in interviews, piracy is a serious problem and often times tie in closely with LAN. At the end of the day, we want the best for the community and fans that support our games, and having chunk of the community pirate the game actually hurts the community.
1) Pirated servers splinter the community instead of consolidating all players who love to play the game. Battle.net will bring players together in skirmishes, ladder play, custom games, and allow everyone the opportunity to share a common experience.
2) More people on Battle.net means more even more resources devoted to evolving this online platform to cater to further community building and new ways to enjoy the game online. World of Warcraft is a great example of a game that has evolved beyond anyone's imagination since their Day 1 and will continue to do so to better the player experience for as long as players support the title. The original StarCraft is an even better example of how 11 years later, players still love and play this title, and we will continue to support and evolve it with patches.
We would not take out LAN if we did not feel we could offer players something better.
If I were to buy StarCraft II or any other title, I know the money I spent would be going to supporting that title. Personally, I would be upset that others were freeloading while others are legitimately supporting a title that has great potential and goals of making this title have 'long legs.'
If you like a song a lot, buy it, and that artist will only come out with more awesome songs for you. If you like a game, buy it, and we will promise to constantly work to make the player experience better at every corner we can.
Support the causes you believe in (This is applicable to all things, not just gaming).
Don't be a leech to society, innovation, and further awesome creations. OMG Blizz is right :O There is no LAN in WoW and its popular, so why not take out LAN from SC2? ...right?
No. Wow is a mmorpg, SC isn't a mmorts.
Besides, SC was really fun playing in lans and etc  .
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On July 02 2009 06:43 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 05:53 barth wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2009 03:13 Pufftrees wrote:Karune is all over BNET today going against the no-lan hate. edit: source http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=18031370482&sid=3000&pageNo=3his first post + Show Spoiler +The first 4 pillars are ALL being made better. 1) Development time for StarCraft II have far exceeded the original StarCraft in both the standard of quality and duration, to ensure the highest in quality RTS experience we can possibly create. 2) Not only is it free to play online, Battle.net 2.0 is designed with the new generation of online community and eSports in mind. 3) As long as there are people playing our games, we will continue to support them, and we have continued with this tradition with our legacy titles like the original StarCraft. 4) StarCraft II was created with eSports as a cornerstone in design philosophy. StarCraft evolved into an eSport. 5) Map Editor will be better than any we have ever released. and: 6) ??? - will have to wait and see For me personally- I loved LAN parties, but the direction in which Battle.net is headed, I would always choose to play on Battle.net > 99% of the time and even if for whatever reason I did decide to lug my computer to a friend's house in this day of age (<1%), I would still be playing with them on Battle.net against others at their place. [ Post edited by Karune ] his 2nd + Show Spoiler +As mentioned by Rob Pardo in interviews, piracy is a serious problem and often times tie in closely with LAN. At the end of the day, we want the best for the community and fans that support our games, and having chunk of the community pirate the game actually hurts the community.
1) Pirated servers splinter the community instead of consolidating all players who love to play the game. Battle.net will bring players together in skirmishes, ladder play, custom games, and allow everyone the opportunity to share a common experience.
2) More people on Battle.net means more even more resources devoted to evolving this online platform to cater to further community building and new ways to enjoy the game online. World of Warcraft is a great example of a game that has evolved beyond anyone's imagination since their Day 1 and will continue to do so to better the player experience for as long as players support the title. The original StarCraft is an even better example of how 11 years later, players still love and play this title, and we will continue to support and evolve it with patches.
We would not take out LAN if we did not feel we could offer players something better.
If I were to buy StarCraft II or any other title, I know the money I spent would be going to supporting that title. Personally, I would be upset that others were freeloading while others are legitimately supporting a title that has great potential and goals of making this title have 'long legs.'
If you like a song a lot, buy it, and that artist will only come out with more awesome songs for you. If you like a game, buy it, and we will promise to constantly work to make the player experience better at every corner we can.
Support the causes you believe in (This is applicable to all things, not just gaming).
Don't be a leech to society, innovation, and further awesome creations. OMG Blizz is right :O There is no LAN in WoW and its popular, so why not take out LAN from SC2? ...right? No. Wow is a mmorpg, SC isn't a mmorts. Besides, SC was really fun playing in lans and etc .
Not a single person is stopping you from playing at lans. Make sure there is an internet connection available, log onto battle.net, play together.
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Does it matter that there isn't any LAN?
you can play b-net beside each other....
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On July 02 2009 06:26 poor newb wrote:
how can you have professional gaming leagues which all that lag, even the smallest amount of delay is unacceptable for programing
FYI. money raised in those pro leagues does NOT go to blizzard
here is a question, do blizzard really care about the small fraction of competitive players? they prolly lose more money by letting people have pirate servers, than gaining from drawing in the competitive players. most of their money will come from pubs, and to them they don't care about having LAN or whatnot, a free b.net 2.0 is plenty for 90% of the public.
sorry blizzard doesn't cater to the small competitive community by allowing private piracy servers, they actually like to make money off games.
i mean so they lose a few hardcore gamers who refuse to play b.net 2.0, but i doubt it will hurt their sales if they let people have pirate servers. because there are a LOT more people willing to pirate this game than people who are willing to give up sc2 because the lack of LAN.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On July 01 2009 17:31 CubEdIn wrote:
Everyone who is talking about piracy are missing the actual point: not our problem.
How is it not our problem?
Piracy --> less money for Blizzard --> less resources with which to make games and support the community (that's us btw)
Of course we should care about SC2 being pirated.
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I'm just wondering, without LAN, how have all these events been done so far? Have they had LAN in the current builds but plan to remove it on release?
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On July 02 2009 10:48 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 17:31 CubEdIn wrote:
Everyone who is talking about piracy are missing the actual point: not our problem. How is it not our problem? Piracy --> less money for Blizzard --> less resources with which to make games and support the community (that's us btw) Of course we should care about SC2 being pirated.
so misunderstood. vivendi does not make fat stacks of cash from simply selling copies of their games... that is the old business model of "make a good game and sell a bunch of copies.. rinse repeat"
activlizzard's new business model is to make tons of money from residual income over time (see WoW) which comes via micro-transaction on bnet2, and through esporting events, sponsors, and broadcasting fees. They will make millions by selling the game three times but that is chump change compared to the profits of the next 10 years from their esports hegemony.
Piracy only hurts small scale software companies. If Activlizzard was just starting up and depending solely on game purchase revenues then having their game pirated would be disastrous. A game like SC2, which will have lunchboxes, pepsi promotions, etc is not hurt by piracy. The absence of LAN is only going to "fight piracy" indirectly. Their goal and purpose for removing LAN is to ensure that all games from casual to starleague level are played on battlenet where players are more likely to partake in micro transactions and to cut out the chinese inspired lan clients like Garena so that their hegemony can prevail unchallenged.
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On July 02 2009 13:08 omninmo wrote:
Piracy only hurts small scale software companies.
Don't be ridiculous. While it may not be crippling (like it would be to an independent company) a lost sale is a lost sale, and that hurts the company.
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Ok, you guys just DO NOT GET IT. "But you can play with each other at a LAN party over B.net" just shows us that you are COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to the big problem. 1) You would still have multiple people (>10) on a single connection. THIS WILL CAUSE LAG. 2) You have to rely on an internet connection, when there are more ways than I can count on my two hands to have something go wrong and people won't be able to play the damn game. 3) This is horrible for pro-gaming, because any type of hitch would automatically cause lag and ruin the competitive game.
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the point is
they DONT CARE about the group of drunken college kids who want to play SC on a LAN in one room
they DONT CARE about the handful of remaining PRO GAMERS in korea, again... their proceeds does NOT go to blizzard, why should blizzard care?
they DONT CARE even more about the foreign "pro gamers" who use lan servers.
they CARE about the millions of public players who will be drawn to SC2 because of WoW, or video games in general.
they CARE about the countless of those will torrent the game on the day of its release.
look, the fact is, the audience LAN caters to is NOT in anyway significant compare to all those potentially pirated copies played on private LAN servers, if LAN was implemented.
the thing is, all those people whining about it, about how "we will not play SC2 because there is not LAN". blizzard DOES NOT care that they don't. for every one of these whiners, there probably 10 whiners that now have to pay for a SC2 rather than pirating it. Blizzard is not losing money because of this...
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Osaka27178 Posts
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EPT
