I believe the Siege Tank is a unit that is, simply put, way too strong and that nerfing it would enable Zerg to be buffed in other areas to help vs Terran.
Let's go over why I believe the Siege Tank is too strong:
Health: 175 Costs: 150/125 Range: 13 Movement Speed: 3.15 Base Damage: 40 (70 vs armored).
With these stats, it means that it has more health than a tank, while costing only slightly more. And it is much more tankier than a Disruptor which are the comparable siege units from other races. But let's see how it fares against the Zerg Ground Army.
-6 Seige Tanks 1 shot:
Zerglings
Queens
Roach
Baneling
Ravager
Lurker
Swarmhost
Infestor
Ultralisks survive with ~100 health.
What this means is that, basically, 6 siege tanks counter every single Zerg ground unit. And it gets worse with upgrades.
They will one shot almost every single zerg unit, and two shot every zerg unit. Further more, even though the target of the seige tanks are the only ones that take full damage, even at half damage in the AOE, the following units are 1 shot:
Zerglings
Roach
Baneling
Lurker
Swarmhost
Infestor
With queens and ravagers also dying on the second shot.
Add to that the fact siege tanks will not be alone, and marine/marauder/medivac/widow mine will also deal damage, a Zerg Ground army can completely disappear in the 0 seconds it takes for Siege Tanks to deal 1 shot.
Even though most of the time they aren't engaging the full army, they end up working like busted liberators where they both kill units instantly in their attack range, except that the Siege Tank deals damage to multiple units.
This sounds absolutely broken, but surely there must be counterplay right? That's right, let's look at what its strengths and weaknesses are.
Strengths:
Very high splash damage siege unit.
Long Range.
Area Control.
Good against clumps of units.
Good at defense.
Weaknesses:
Can't attack air.
Need to siege to attack which limits its mobility.
Vulnerable while sieging.
Can't move while sieged , which limits its attack range so you need to position them correctly and the enemy can move to avoid them.
That means there are three ways to beat them:
1.-Going Air. 2.-Out maneuver them by attacking far away places, abusing their lack of mobility, and getting out before they get there or killing them as they are positioning and sieging. 3.-Go around them and not fight the area they are defending, trying to hit the location you are targeting using a different path or angle outside of their range.
The first one is self explanatory and works as well as you would think. But here is where the problems start.
Bio units in medivacs are among the most mobile units in the entire game. The efficiency of a small amount of bio units with the medivacs that transported them are enough to pull inordinate amounts of units in defense of positions they move to. The reality is the terran becomes the one out maneuvering their opponent, even with the immobile siege tank.
And it gets worse. Blizzard, for some reason I don't understand, gave siege tanks 13 range. This completely negates its last weaknesses.
1.-Bio is so fast you cannot attack any of the terran bases without the bio being there. (You cannot out mannouver them). 2.-While the siege tank is vulnerable while sieging, other units exist 3.-The Range negates attacking from different angles in current maps, as even bases with two entrances or ramps can be covered by the siege tanks if they are set up between them.. 4.-The Range outranges everything, which means 6 siege tanks can insta kill everything before they even cast one if you target them.
Disclaimer: This is a satical post. Only a moron would think zerg has no counter play to siege tanks.
I love that you both had to combine tanks, medivacs, and marines into some kind of Frankenstein's unit and ignore the existence of vipers to make this shitpost even slightly coherent..
You said this thing that I want to argue against, but instead of providing this argument, I'm going to write something ridiculous that you didn't write. I'll be using this to argue that you are ridiculous, because if you had said something ridiculous instead of what you said, then it would be ridiculous.
On September 01 2021 03:48 Nebuchad wrote: You said this thing that I want to argue against, but instead of providing this argument, I'm going to write something ridiculous that you didn't write. I'll be using this to argue that you are ridiculous, because if you had said something ridiculous instead of what you said, then it would be ridiculous.
as much as I had fun reading the OP, I agree with that post
On September 01 2021 03:48 Nebuchad wrote: You said this thing that I want to argue against, but instead of providing this argument, I'm going to write something ridiculous that you didn't write. I'll be using this to argue that you are ridiculous, because if you had said something ridiculous instead of what you said, then it would be ridiculous.
Maybe because everything in this thread makes no sense as it is done by the usual d2 protoss whiners of this site. I mean, you can argue that removing abduct to prevent skytoss is a brillant idea but it just shows your total lack of understanding of the game and there isn't much else to answer.
On September 01 2021 02:03 QOGQOG wrote: I love that you both had to combine tanks, medivacs, and marines into some kind of Frankenstein's unit and ignore the existence of vipers to make this shitpost even slightly coherent..
Yeah, his balance whining took account of the interaction of other units/comp rather than considering a single unit in a vaccum, even his trolling is inadvertently better done than your balance whining lol
On September 01 2021 03:48 Nebuchad wrote: You said this thing that I want to argue against, but instead of providing this argument, I'm going to write something ridiculous that you didn't write. I'll be using this to argue that you are ridiculous, because if you had said something ridiculous instead of what you said, then it would be ridiculous.
Maybe because everything in this thread makes no sense as it is done by the usual d2 protoss whiners of this site. I mean, you can argue that removing abduct to prevent skytoss is a brillant idea but it just shows your total lack of understanding of the game and there isn't much else to answer.
Why did you just write that we need to remove protoss from the game? That's a ridiculous notion. Starcraft needs three races. In this post I will (1/37)
On September 01 2021 03:48 Nebuchad wrote: You said this thing that I want to argue against, but instead of providing this argument, I'm going to write something ridiculous that you didn't write. I'll be using this to argue that you are ridiculous, because if you had said something ridiculous instead of what you said, then it would be ridiculous.
Maybe because everything in this thread makes no sense as it is done by the usual d2 protoss whiners of this site. I mean, you can argue that removing abduct to prevent skytoss is a brillant idea but it just shows your total lack of understanding of the game and there isn't much else to answer.
Why did you just write that we need to remove protoss from the game? That's a ridiculous notion. Starcraft needs three races. In this post I will (1/37)
You dare impliying I make up stuffs while it was the premice of your balance whining thread, remove abduct and compensates it with a removal of pathogen gland, you are the one who distorts reality. This one will be locked down anyway, you can go back theorycrafting the end of lurkers in yours.
On September 01 2021 03:48 Nebuchad wrote: You said this thing that I want to argue against, but instead of providing this argument, I'm going to write something ridiculous that you didn't write. I'll be using this to argue that you are ridiculous, because if you had said something ridiculous instead of what you said, then it would be ridiculous.
Maybe because everything in this thread makes no sense as it is done by the usual d2 protoss whiners of this site. I mean, you can argue that removing abduct to prevent skytoss is a brillant idea but it just shows your total lack of understanding of the game and there isn't much else to answer.
Why did you just write that we need to remove protoss from the game? That's a ridiculous notion. Starcraft needs three races. In this post I will (1/37)
You dare impliying I make up stuffs while it was the premice of your balance whining thread, remove abduct and compensates it with a removal of pathogen gland, you are the one who distorts reality. This one will be locked down anyway, you can go back theorycrafting the end of lurkers in yours.
Not my thread. I dislike bad rhetorical tactics. You should too.
On September 01 2021 02:03 QOGQOG wrote: I love that you both had to combine tanks, medivacs, and marines into some kind of Frankenstein's unit and ignore the existence of vipers to make this shitpost even slightly coherent..
Yeah, his balance whining took account of the interaction of other units/comp rather than considering a single unit in a vaccum, even his trolling is inadvertently better done than your balance whining lol
Given I wrote an entire one sentence, you could have bothered to read it.
One of my "objections" was that this wasn't taking into account the existence of vipers (among many other deliberate omissions), i.e. he's looking at things in a vacuum and not considering actual unit interactions.
But the fact that he's having to bring in three different units to raise the same objections about siege tanks as lurkers is confirming the point made in the original post: that lurkers, specifically, are too strong. It's not "more holistic" to try to equate the strengths of a single unit with those of an entire composition, it's self defeating.
I know this is a joke thread, but I'm genuinely wondering what point you think you're making here. Criticisms of a single unit are invalid? Or that the other thread... hasn't mentioned unit interactions or indeed any units at all other than the lurker?
But yeah I agree with QOGQOG, the fact that you had to bring three other units (MMM) to draw paralels to how in my original post about the Lurkers I explain all the strenghts of a single unit is pretty telling.
An actually great paralel would have been when Medivacs could lift tanks in siege mode and reposition them. That was widely regarded as a bad move, and even though it required micro and two relatively expensive units, it was removed. So why then is the lurker able to insta burrow, insta unburrow and be super fast?
EPT
