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GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-23 13:07:26
September 23 2018 13:05 GMT
#261
K I don't know anything about this race but this might be the most ruthless ad of 2018.

Also I encourage people to post other especially good or bad campaign ads until or unless it becomes too much.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-23 13:45:47
September 23 2018 13:45 GMT
#262
On September 23 2018 10:10 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2018 05:56 IgnE wrote:
is it just me or are some of you talking about trump like hes not a total idiot? trump a byronic hero? more like the man of la mancha tilting at windmills and living in a fantasy world

Surely by now you are figuring out that the idea that Trump is a total idiot is preposterous. He is winning almost everywhere. Aggressive deregulation, tax cuts, and trade policy have created a boom that no one thought possible. Turns out that, contrary to what Obama said during the campaign, Trump does have a “magic wand.” Trump’s foreign policy has been fantastic. Not only has he provided much needed clarity to America’s global posturing (the best example being firmly aligning with Israel at the expense of Palestinians), but he is about to end the Korean War and eliminate North Korea as a rogue threat to American interests — something that W and Obama miserably failed to address. The most impressive part is that he is accomplishing all of this despite facing unprecedented amounts of domestic resistance inside and outside of his government. If nothing else, the NYT Rosenstein story makes it unequivocally clear that a substantial component of government is outright seditious. But guess what? Trump is about to beat them, too. Why do you think the NYT published that story now despite knowing about McCabe’s memos for months? It’s because of Trump’s declassification order. The truth is coming out, and the media needs to save face by getting ahead of the coming revelations. Trump has already won the war behind the scenes. He has crushed his political enemies and is driving them before him. All that’s left is to hear the lamentations of the women. And that will come soon enough as America learns that it has been lied to for two years by the media about this Russia nonsense and many other things.


i am quite skeptical of the claim that trump is not a total idiot. in fact it seems entirely possible that the “boom” is largely optimism about his ability to generally level everything. just to point to one thing, for example, i am skeptical of the fracking/shale oil boom, which seems to be running on an amazon-like strategy of continued high investment w promised returns (new wells) despite quickly declining productivity per well after the first year.

but who knows. maybe you are right. only history will tell
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-23 14:47:44
September 23 2018 14:46 GMT
#263
On September 23 2018 20:32 brian wrote:
there’s a large difference between presuming his guilt and not assuming the accuser is a liar. unless you were speaking into the void i think you’d be hard pressed to find people calling for kavanaugh to already be in jail(metaphorically obv, or i guess literally should they be so bold) before we knew anything lol.

Take a look at these quotes from democrats:

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said Thursday: "I believe her because she is telling the truth and you know it by her story."

"Judge Kavanaugh has not asked to have the FBI review the claims," Gillibrand added. "Is that the reaction of an innocent person? It is not."

When Sen. Duckworth (D-Ill.) was asked about Kavanaugh denying the accusation, the senator responded, "Well, I have heard, you know, many, many predators say and refute allegations against them."

Former spokesman for Bernie Sanders and CNN contributor, Symone Sanders, said she didn't even need to wait for more information: "For me there is no debate. I believe Professor Ford. Judge Kavanaugh has lied multiple times under oath."

And here are other select quotes from Democratic lawmakers:

Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) said: "I believe Dr. Ford as I refer to her because she makes a very credible case. It is really difficult for someone to come forward in this way. Why should she destroy her life? Already there are efforts to cast aspersions on her credibility, to look into her family, all of that. This is really very much like what happened with Anita Hill where she was vilified, she was called names. This cannot happen to Dr. Ford.”

Sen. Blumenthal (D-Conn.): "Let me just say right at the outset I believe. Dr Ford, I believe the survivor here, there’s every reason to believe her. She has come forward courageously and bravely knowing that she would face a nightmare of hostile and vicious scrutiny and challenge. And there are plenty of reasons to disbelieve Judge Kavanaugh after his evasive and seemingly misleading testimony before the Judiciary Committee."

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.); “I hope that she does [testify], because I’m afraid that what the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee really want is they want her to go away. They don’t want the country to hear from her, and they certainly don’t want the country to hear from her live and on television. She’s absolutely right, the FBI should do a thorough vetting of these allegations. The Senate shouldn’t simply rely on hearing two conflicting accounts and decide, ‘Well, we’re OK with not knowing. We’re OK with the fact we might be putting a — someone who committed attempted rape on the Supreme Court of the United States.’ They should get to the bottom of this. And it wouldn’t take that long to do. This is the same crowd that waited a year to fill the last vacancy during the Obama administration on the Supreme Court, so why this rush? And I think they realize they have a very imperfect candidate, in fact they may have a candidate who has committed attempted rape.”

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.): “Listen, it comes down to credibility to your point. It’s going to be about listening to what each party has to say, but I believe her. Listen, first of all, anybody who comes forward at this point to — to be prepared to testify in the United States Senate against someone who’s being nominated to one of the most powerful positions in the United States government, that takes an extraordinary amount of courage. And frankly, you know, I have personally prosecuted sexual assault cases, and my concern is— and she knows this — she is putting herself out there knowing that they’re going to try and excoriate her. She’s doing it, I believe, because she knows that this is an important matter. It’s a serious matter, who serves on that court. And she has the courage to come forward? She has nothing to gain. What does she have to gain?”

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.): “Well I can tell you it really does have a ring of truth to it. The fact that she can refer to therapist notes so that she did bring it up before. I am skeptical of polygraphs, but those who believe them, she has passed a polygraph test."

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.): "I believe Professor Ford. I think she’s credible and I think when the investigation is finished and when she testifies and Judge Kavanaugh testifies, I think a majority of senators will find her credible."


Source.

Let’s be very clear on what they’re doing. They are presumptively believing Ford over a sitting federal judge. And they are doing so in a complete absence of any good reason to believe Ford. As I pointed out repeatedly, her accusations were highly problematic from day 1. Even before every named witness completely denied Ford’s story, the internal inconsistencies and vagueries in Ford’s story were damning. The other big clue was her monkeying around with the judiciary committee’s offer to have her testify, which was suggestive that she is crazy or has ulterior motives. For all of these reasons, dragging Kavanaugh through the mud over these particular allegations has been absolutely disgraceful and disgusting.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 23 2018 14:49 GMT
#264
On September 23 2018 22:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
K I don't know anything about this race but this might be the most ruthless ad of 2018.

Also I encourage people to post other especially good or bad campaign ads until or unless it becomes too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuayQFD51w

Ouch.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 23 2018 15:34 GMT
#265
On September 23 2018 22:45 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2018 10:10 xDaunt wrote:
On September 22 2018 05:56 IgnE wrote:
is it just me or are some of you talking about trump like hes not a total idiot? trump a byronic hero? more like the man of la mancha tilting at windmills and living in a fantasy world

Surely by now you are figuring out that the idea that Trump is a total idiot is preposterous. He is winning almost everywhere. Aggressive deregulation, tax cuts, and trade policy have created a boom that no one thought possible. Turns out that, contrary to what Obama said during the campaign, Trump does have a “magic wand.” Trump’s foreign policy has been fantastic. Not only has he provided much needed clarity to America’s global posturing (the best example being firmly aligning with Israel at the expense of Palestinians), but he is about to end the Korean War and eliminate North Korea as a rogue threat to American interests — something that W and Obama miserably failed to address. The most impressive part is that he is accomplishing all of this despite facing unprecedented amounts of domestic resistance inside and outside of his government. If nothing else, the NYT Rosenstein story makes it unequivocally clear that a substantial component of government is outright seditious. But guess what? Trump is about to beat them, too. Why do you think the NYT published that story now despite knowing about McCabe’s memos for months? It’s because of Trump’s declassification order. The truth is coming out, and the media needs to save face by getting ahead of the coming revelations. Trump has already won the war behind the scenes. He has crushed his political enemies and is driving them before him. All that’s left is to hear the lamentations of the women. And that will come soon enough as America learns that it has been lied to for two years by the media about this Russia nonsense and many other things.


i am quite skeptical of the claim that trump is not a total idiot. in fact it seems entirely possible that the “boom” is largely optimism about his ability to generally level everything. just to point to one thing, for example, i am skeptical of the fracking/shale oil boom, which seems to be running on an amazon-like strategy of continued high investment w promised returns (new wells) despite quickly declining productivity per well after the first year.

but who knows. maybe you are right. only history will tell

Fracking well productivity is well-known and well-modeled by the producers. It's all baked into the costs for the lifetime of a given well. And the costs keep declining. When I was more involved in oil and gas stuff five years ago or so, the average cost per barrel was about $70-100 depending upon location. Fracking techniques have improved to the point where the cost is now $30-50 per barrel depending upon location. US oil producers are now more efficient at extracting shale oil than many other countries are at extracting traditional oil, which is one of the reasons why the US is now the leading petroleum producer in the world and will continue to be one of the major leaders in petroleum production for a very long time.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
September 23 2018 16:13 GMT
#266
IIRC xDaunt your position on campaign finance is unlimited but with disclosure.

When you see financing like this do you see it as philanthropy or as a profit-driven investment?

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
September 23 2018 18:56 GMT
#267
On September 23 2018 22:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
K I don't know anything about this race but this might be the most ruthless ad of 2018.

Also I encourage people to post other especially good or bad campaign ads until or unless it becomes too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuayQFD51w


wow wtf. how does this even happen
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-23 19:22:02
September 23 2018 19:21 GMT
#268
I mean wow, holy shit. That’s savage. And then there’s this.

History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9618 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-23 20:39:39
September 23 2018 19:44 GMT
#269
On September 23 2018 23:46 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2018 20:32 brian wrote:
there’s a large difference between presuming his guilt and not assuming the accuser is a liar. unless you were speaking into the void i think you’d be hard pressed to find people calling for kavanaugh to already be in jail(metaphorically obv, or i guess literally should they be so bold) before we knew anything lol.

Take a look at these quotes from democrats:

Show nested quote +
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said Thursday: "I believe her because she is telling the truth and you know it by her story."

"Judge Kavanaugh has not asked to have the FBI review the claims," Gillibrand added. "Is that the reaction of an innocent person? It is not."

When Sen. Duckworth (D-Ill.) was asked about Kavanaugh denying the accusation, the senator responded, "Well, I have heard, you know, many, many predators say and refute allegations against them."

Former spokesman for Bernie Sanders and CNN contributor, Symone Sanders, said she didn't even need to wait for more information: "For me there is no debate. I believe Professor Ford. Judge Kavanaugh has lied multiple times under oath."

And here are other select quotes from Democratic lawmakers:

Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) said: "I believe Dr. Ford as I refer to her because she makes a very credible case. It is really difficult for someone to come forward in this way. Why should she destroy her life? Already there are efforts to cast aspersions on her credibility, to look into her family, all of that. This is really very much like what happened with Anita Hill where she was vilified, she was called names. This cannot happen to Dr. Ford.”

Sen. Blumenthal (D-Conn.): "Let me just say right at the outset I believe. Dr Ford, I believe the survivor here, there’s every reason to believe her. She has come forward courageously and bravely knowing that she would face a nightmare of hostile and vicious scrutiny and challenge. And there are plenty of reasons to disbelieve Judge Kavanaugh after his evasive and seemingly misleading testimony before the Judiciary Committee."

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.); “I hope that she does [testify], because I’m afraid that what the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee really want is they want her to go away. They don’t want the country to hear from her, and they certainly don’t want the country to hear from her live and on television. She’s absolutely right, the FBI should do a thorough vetting of these allegations. The Senate shouldn’t simply rely on hearing two conflicting accounts and decide, ‘Well, we’re OK with not knowing. We’re OK with the fact we might be putting a — someone who committed attempted rape on the Supreme Court of the United States.’ They should get to the bottom of this. And it wouldn’t take that long to do. This is the same crowd that waited a year to fill the last vacancy during the Obama administration on the Supreme Court, so why this rush? And I think they realize they have a very imperfect candidate, in fact they may have a candidate who has committed attempted rape.”

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.): “Listen, it comes down to credibility to your point. It’s going to be about listening to what each party has to say, but I believe her. Listen, first of all, anybody who comes forward at this point to — to be prepared to testify in the United States Senate against someone who’s being nominated to one of the most powerful positions in the United States government, that takes an extraordinary amount of courage. And frankly, you know, I have personally prosecuted sexual assault cases, and my concern is— and she knows this — she is putting herself out there knowing that they’re going to try and excoriate her. She’s doing it, I believe, because she knows that this is an important matter. It’s a serious matter, who serves on that court. And she has the courage to come forward? She has nothing to gain. What does she have to gain?”

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.): “Well I can tell you it really does have a ring of truth to it. The fact that she can refer to therapist notes so that she did bring it up before. I am skeptical of polygraphs, but those who believe them, she has passed a polygraph test."

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.): "I believe Professor Ford. I think she’s credible and I think when the investigation is finished and when she testifies and Judge Kavanaugh testifies, I think a majority of senators will find her credible."


Source.

Let’s be very clear on what they’re doing. They are presumptively believing Ford over a sitting federal judge. And they are doing so in a complete absence of any good reason to believe Ford. As I pointed out repeatedly, her accusations were highly problematic from day 1. Even before every named witness completely denied Ford’s story, the internal inconsistencies and vagueries in Ford’s story were damning. The other big clue was her monkeying around with the judiciary committee’s offer to have her testify, which was suggestive that she is crazy or has ulterior motives. For all of these reasons, dragging Kavanaugh through the mud over these particular allegations has been absolutely disgraceful and disgusting.


with the exception of Gillibrand those aren’t claims of guilt, and again with the same exception, not much to be shamed on. there’s a large difference between giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser and claiming the defendant guilty.

as someone who works in law i assume i don’t need to tell you that. trials are a thing for a reason am i right? half the quotes don’t even mention Kavanaugh. the entire ordeal is certainly quite disgusting.

sorry, i missed the Duckworth quote. that brings it up to half, though it was a leading question.

i too have held since day one that should this be a farce it is quite gross, it would seem fairly obviously defamation. that alone is certainly not reason enough to not see it through, and the hindsight even assuming it’s totally fictitious wouldn’t change that. is the GOP delaying the vote not a sign of the same? or let me ask you this way, do you think it would be in Kavanaugh’s best interest to pursue defamation?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 23 2018 21:58 GMT
#270
On September 24 2018 01:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
IIRC xDaunt your position on campaign finance is unlimited but with disclosure.

When you see financing like this do you see it as philanthropy or as a profit-driven investment?

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1043553281631498240

Campaign finance is one of those things that I'm badly torn on. I'm generally in favor of freedom-oriented policies (ie less regulation), but the oligarchic and corrupting effects of having so much money flood the political system is undeniable. My position is currently this: there needs to be an amendment to the Constitution passed that gives Congress some regulatory authority over this stuff.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-23 22:19:10
September 23 2018 22:06 GMT
#271
On September 24 2018 04:44 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2018 23:46 xDaunt wrote:
On September 23 2018 20:32 brian wrote:
there’s a large difference between presuming his guilt and not assuming the accuser is a liar. unless you were speaking into the void i think you’d be hard pressed to find people calling for kavanaugh to already be in jail(metaphorically obv, or i guess literally should they be so bold) before we knew anything lol.

Take a look at these quotes from democrats:

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said Thursday: "I believe her because she is telling the truth and you know it by her story."

"Judge Kavanaugh has not asked to have the FBI review the claims," Gillibrand added. "Is that the reaction of an innocent person? It is not."

When Sen. Duckworth (D-Ill.) was asked about Kavanaugh denying the accusation, the senator responded, "Well, I have heard, you know, many, many predators say and refute allegations against them."

Former spokesman for Bernie Sanders and CNN contributor, Symone Sanders, said she didn't even need to wait for more information: "For me there is no debate. I believe Professor Ford. Judge Kavanaugh has lied multiple times under oath."

And here are other select quotes from Democratic lawmakers:

Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) said: "I believe Dr. Ford as I refer to her because she makes a very credible case. It is really difficult for someone to come forward in this way. Why should she destroy her life? Already there are efforts to cast aspersions on her credibility, to look into her family, all of that. This is really very much like what happened with Anita Hill where she was vilified, she was called names. This cannot happen to Dr. Ford.”

Sen. Blumenthal (D-Conn.): "Let me just say right at the outset I believe. Dr Ford, I believe the survivor here, there’s every reason to believe her. She has come forward courageously and bravely knowing that she would face a nightmare of hostile and vicious scrutiny and challenge. And there are plenty of reasons to disbelieve Judge Kavanaugh after his evasive and seemingly misleading testimony before the Judiciary Committee."

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.); “I hope that she does [testify], because I’m afraid that what the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee really want is they want her to go away. They don’t want the country to hear from her, and they certainly don’t want the country to hear from her live and on television. She’s absolutely right, the FBI should do a thorough vetting of these allegations. The Senate shouldn’t simply rely on hearing two conflicting accounts and decide, ‘Well, we’re OK with not knowing. We’re OK with the fact we might be putting a — someone who committed attempted rape on the Supreme Court of the United States.’ They should get to the bottom of this. And it wouldn’t take that long to do. This is the same crowd that waited a year to fill the last vacancy during the Obama administration on the Supreme Court, so why this rush? And I think they realize they have a very imperfect candidate, in fact they may have a candidate who has committed attempted rape.”

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.): “Listen, it comes down to credibility to your point. It’s going to be about listening to what each party has to say, but I believe her. Listen, first of all, anybody who comes forward at this point to — to be prepared to testify in the United States Senate against someone who’s being nominated to one of the most powerful positions in the United States government, that takes an extraordinary amount of courage. And frankly, you know, I have personally prosecuted sexual assault cases, and my concern is— and she knows this — she is putting herself out there knowing that they’re going to try and excoriate her. She’s doing it, I believe, because she knows that this is an important matter. It’s a serious matter, who serves on that court. And she has the courage to come forward? She has nothing to gain. What does she have to gain?”

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.): “Well I can tell you it really does have a ring of truth to it. The fact that she can refer to therapist notes so that she did bring it up before. I am skeptical of polygraphs, but those who believe them, she has passed a polygraph test."

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.): "I believe Professor Ford. I think she’s credible and I think when the investigation is finished and when she testifies and Judge Kavanaugh testifies, I think a majority of senators will find her credible."


Source.

Let’s be very clear on what they’re doing. They are presumptively believing Ford over a sitting federal judge. And they are doing so in a complete absence of any good reason to believe Ford. As I pointed out repeatedly, her accusations were highly problematic from day 1. Even before every named witness completely denied Ford’s story, the internal inconsistencies and vagueries in Ford’s story were damning. The other big clue was her monkeying around with the judiciary committee’s offer to have her testify, which was suggestive that she is crazy or has ulterior motives. For all of these reasons, dragging Kavanaugh through the mud over these particular allegations has been absolutely disgraceful and disgusting.


with the exception of Gillibrand those aren’t claims of guilt, and again with the same exception, not much to be shamed on. there’s a large difference between giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser and claiming the defendant guilty.

as someone who works in law i assume i don’t need to tell you that. trials are a thing for a reason am i right? half the quotes don’t even mention Kavanaugh. the entire ordeal is certainly quite disgusting.

sorry, i missed the Duckworth quote. that brings it up to half, though it was a leading question.

i too have held since day one that should this be a farce it is quite gross, it would seem fairly obviously defamation. that alone is certainly not reason enough to not see it through, and the hindsight even assuming it’s totally fictitious wouldn’t change that. is the GOP delaying the vote not a sign of the same? or let me ask you this way, do you think it would be in Kavanaugh’s best interest to pursue defamation?

Yes, the Gillibrand and Duckworth quotes are facially reprehensible, but you're missing the real point of the other ones. There's a big difference between saying "I think we should hear what Dr. Ford has to say" and "I believe Dr. Ford." Every person who says that he "believes Dr. Ford" is necessarily also saying that he does not believe Kavanaugh and that he believes that Kavanaugh did try to rape her. For this reason, there really is little difference between what Gillibrand/Duckworth said and what everyone else said. They are all presuming that Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist. And they are doing so solely on the basis that Kavanugh is Trump's supreme court nominee -- not on the basis of facts or evidence. This isn't really a close call. It's pure partisanship at its most toxic.

EDIT: Apparently there is even more evidence against Ford coming. Kavanaugh is going to produce his calendars from 1982 to the Senate. Don't people understand that there is literally not one piece of independent evidence that corroborates Ford's accusations? The only thing that's out there is whatever is in Ford's psych notes, which we have not seen, and which comes from Ford anyway. All of the known, independent evidence supports Kavanaugh. There is not one good reason to believe Ford.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
September 23 2018 22:33 GMT
#272
On September 24 2018 04:21 LegalLord wrote:
I mean wow, holy shit. That’s savage. And then there’s this.

https://twitter.com/DrPaulGosar/status/1043566696340971520


I just don't like the conflation of Hillary supporters, leftists, and Stalin. This is why I think trying to run on being "not socialist/communist" is sorta pointless. Campaign for the policies you want, chances are the Republican will call it socialism/communism regardless. There's a lot of reasons to dislike Hillary but the idea she's a radical leftist ala Stalin has gotta smell funny to any observant Republican.

I just want to know where I vote to give that family a reality show, or at least force them to film Thanksgiving together.

On September 24 2018 06:58 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2018 01:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
IIRC xDaunt your position on campaign finance is unlimited but with disclosure.

When you see financing like this do you see it as philanthropy or as a profit-driven investment?

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1043553281631498240

Campaign finance is one of those things that I'm badly torn on. I'm generally in favor of freedom-oriented policies (ie less regulation), but the oligarchic and corrupting effects of having so much money flood the political system is undeniable. My position is currently this: there needs to be an amendment to the Constitution passed that gives Congress some regulatory authority over this stuff.


Fair enough. What legislative path would you imagine this going (re Constitutional convention vs just bringing up a vote)?

Is there any realistic hope that this could happen? How much of Congress/legislators would have to be replaced and is there anyone in the Republican party with a message you agree with regarding campaign finance?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 23 2018 22:36 GMT
#273
So apparently another woman is about to come forward accusing Kavanaugh of something.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
September 23 2018 22:45 GMT
#274
On September 24 2018 07:36 xDaunt wrote:
So apparently another woman is about to come forward accusing Kavanaugh of something.


You've seen his yearbook stuff, you've seen his frats legacy, do you really think he didn't sexually assault any women in his life?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 23 2018 22:52 GMT
#275
On September 24 2018 07:45 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2018 07:36 xDaunt wrote:
So apparently another woman is about to come forward accusing Kavanaugh of something.


You've seen his yearbook stuff, you've seen his frats legacy, do you really think he didn't sexually assault any women in his life?

Sure, why not?

And it is unclear whether this new thing is even non-consensual. It’s a Ronan Farrow story to be released in the New Yorker. All we know is that it features a dildo. Yay!
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-24 00:01:23
September 23 2018 23:00 GMT
#276
On September 24 2018 07:52 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2018 07:45 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 24 2018 07:36 xDaunt wrote:
So apparently another woman is about to come forward accusing Kavanaugh of something.


You've seen his yearbook stuff, you've seen his frats legacy, do you really think he didn't sexually assault any women in his life?

Sure, why not?

And it is unclear whether this new thing is even non-consensual. It’s a Ronan Farrow story to be released in the New Yorker. All we know is that it features a dildo. Yay!


Because someone who wouldn't engage in that behavior would be appalled by the type of things that happened. Not only that, they would make it clear how appalling they found it to be now, which afaik (I'm not following this stuff close) Kav hasn't done.

Maybe he has rebuked the behavior of his classmates as documented by their yearbooks as repulsive and unacceptable, but I certainly missed it. Additionally he came from the same frat as David cop-a-feel (it's been a while since he was a relevant reference so he's been doing it a long time). As well as the frat essentially having traditions that regularly abused women, at least verbally.

Then there's as privileged white men of his age generally not having the same concept of a woman's bodily autonomy as modern women.

I can't say for sure he abused anyone, but we can be extremely confident that he saw abuse and did nothing.

To be clear, a lot of "acceptable" behavior toward women when he was growing up is now considered sexual assault, harassment, or some variation. So it's highly probable he did something that was "acceptable" then but criminal now (granted the right jurisdiction and evidence) even if it never rose to the level described by Ford.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-24 00:57:45
September 24 2018 00:14 GMT
#277
Good call on the college shenanigans, GH.

Edit: Apparently problems are already popping up with this story and stuff is being walked back. Regardless, looks like this accusation is uncorroborated as well and involves another drunk accuser.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-24 02:08:28
September 24 2018 02:02 GMT
#278
On September 24 2018 09:14 xDaunt wrote:
Good call on the college shenanigans, GH.

Edit: Apparently problems are already popping up with this story and stuff is being walked back. Regardless, looks like this accusation is uncorroborated as well and involves another drunk accuser.


Funny thing about college drinking parties, people get drunk. It's also where/when college men tend to be the most inappropriate. I just don't see the point of all this. He's getting confirmed even if the stories were true and it could be proven definitively. These women are being dragged so that Democrats can score a few tenths of a political point and not even stop him, and on the off chance Kav does have a record without sexually harassing or abusing women he's being besmirched for stuff only remotely related instead of just his judging (which should be problematic enough on it's own according to what I've heard).

Considering this is an international forum I feel inclined to mention I am embarrassed of our entire political system as of late. I don't think the current state of our politics gives a much room to give any other country any advice about anything except how to blow your wad on bombs.

Biggest clue that Democrats simply don't get how this plays?

Trump won white women, Roy Moore won white women overwhelmingly, and this wouldn't be a difference maker for nearly any Republicans. It might be a slight drag in the purple states, but that's not even a sure thing.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-24 02:13:02
September 24 2018 02:10 GMT
#279
On September 24 2018 11:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2018 09:14 xDaunt wrote:
Good call on the college shenanigans, GH.

Edit: Apparently problems are already popping up with this story and stuff is being walked back. Regardless, looks like this accusation is uncorroborated as well and involves another drunk accuser.


Funny thing about college drinking parties, people get drunk. It's also where/when college men tend to be the most inappropriate. I just don't see the point of all this. He's getting confirmed even if the stories were true and it could be proven definitively. These women are being dragged so that Democrats can score a few tenths of a political point and not even stop him, and on the off chance Kav does have a record without sexually harassing or abusing women he's being besmirched for stuff only remotely related instead of just his judging (which should be problematic enough on it's own according to what I've heard).

Considering this is an international forum I feel inclined to mention I am embarrassed of our entire political system as of late. I don't think the current state of our politics gives a much room to give any other country any advice about anything except how to blow your wad on bombs.

The point of all of this is obvious. Democrats are pushing both of these laughably flimsy accusations as hard as they can so that they can, at best, stop the nomination, or, at worst, use Kavanaugh’s confirmation as the basis for a “see how much the GOP hates women!?!?” get out the vote campaign. It is quite clever politically, but it is also emblematic of the Democrats’ utter moral depravity.

The GOP will likely see this nonsense for what it is and ram Kavanaugh through. I trust that they will be able to get enough information out there to blunt if not outright counter the political consequences.

Edit: Exactly right, GH. Democrats may be badly miscalculating how this will play with the electorate. If nothing else, this could effectively end the #metoo movement.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 24 2018 13:30 GMT
#280
What I don't fully understand is why Ronan Farrow would attach his name to this nonsense. His article regarding the Ramirez incident is quite interesting in that he reports on the accusation and then also reports on all of its shortcomings, confirming that it is entirely uncorroborated. Not even the NYT wanted anything to do with this, yet he pushed the story out anyway. I wonder who got Ronan to publish the story?
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