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BfA Community Links:
GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance
TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde
TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance
Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv

On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote:
I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother.

Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion.

Form
Spreadsheet

If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21668 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-25 21:10:38
February 25 2016 21:08 GMT
#901
5s rule : because not doing anything is not fun
talent system had no choice. it was all 1 cookie cutter spec. Atleast there is some choice now (yes yes cookie cutter specs still exist but there is more choice even if its on a per fight basis)
Spell ranks didn't add a lot. I played during TBC with it. Yay having 3 chain heal buttons is such engaging content...
returning to trainer is just annoying, it takes me out of my rhythm to fly back for no enjoyment gain.
Last point again added nothing. spell X is best and get spammed either way.

If your guild is bad then find a better guild. They are out there desperately looking for people.
I'm in a casual guild myself after several expansions of hard core raiding and we have progressed through normal into heroic and are now progressing in Mythic HFC with roughly the same group of people over the last 7 months.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
February 25 2016 21:20 GMT
#902
On February 26 2016 06:04 Teoita wrote:
Tbh every expansion adding 10 new points of "your ability does x% more damage!' was pretty silly, i can live without that. I rather like the current talent system, i enjoy swapping my talents to optimize for every fight.


Yeah, Classic / TBC talents were pretty boring. The new tier system isn't perfect, but much better anyway.

And the trainer system always was stupid. I mean, why does some Jabroni in Stormwind, who does nothing but stand around all day, get to tell me how to eviscerate harder? I'm the one who practices that shit 24/7.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
February 25 2016 21:37 GMT
#903
On February 26 2016 06:01 akatama wrote:
I pretty much gave up on anything outside raiding a few months ago. I wanted to buy some rep-gated mounts from Wrath (grinded the reps back in MoP with all the useless justice points, but was too poor to afford all those mounts at the time) when I discovered all of them had been reset to default...

What's the point of leveling a new character? Gearing is trivial, you can get normal-level gear from solo content, can't pug hc cause no ring on that alt. Can't even stand pugs in the first place, lots of loud mouths tunnelling the boss and blaming others for wiping.

Guild is almost dead outside raids and the occasional "let me do 5 tw dungeons or mythics on an alt or 2". Even our raiding roster is not looking good. We had to bring in undergeared DK alts on Mannoroth for lol-grips, now we're struggling with Archimonde cause some people can't be bothered to do tactics and either die from chains aoe or kill people with lasers. Can't replace them because we have no backups. Don't get me started on our 2 out of 3 tanks that have attendance issues (and off-spec tanks are missing proper trinkets).

WoW in general went to hell around late Wrath due to the decision to focus almost exclusively on end-game raiding. Too much standardization, too much streamlining. Cata destroyed what little flavor was left in 1-58 range. Why did you have to take away the 5s rule? The talent system? What was wrong with spell ranks and fixed mana costs? What was wrong with returning to a trainer to get new spells? What was wrong with some abilities having better scaling but worse base damage than others?

1 through 58 was really boring busywork that looks bad compared to other mmos. The talent system was replaced with a different one that offers way more choice. Spell ranks you'd only use 2 of your 8 ranks . That's not interesting gameplay. No mmo is going to come out and brag about how many ranks their spells have . The dps gameplay is about rotations, priorities, cooldowns, buff and debuff uptimes.Going back to the trainer ruined the flow and paid of levelling.

Wow has lots of problems but these are so far away from it.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
akatama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Romania982 Posts
February 25 2016 21:40 GMT
#904
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:

T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).

It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
February 25 2016 21:42 GMT
#905
I don't agree with much in his post, but I think he's perfectly right about standardisation and streamlining.

Everything is so neat and predictable and polished, ugh.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21668 Posts
February 25 2016 21:43 GMT
#906
On February 26 2016 06:40 akatama wrote:
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:

T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).

It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.

There is no system that will change this.
If you offer a choice then one of the options will always be better and the players will gravitate towards that option.
Ever
Single
Time

It is undeniable that the current system offers more choice then the previous one did.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
February 25 2016 21:43 GMT
#907
On February 26 2016 06:40 akatama wrote:
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:

T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).

It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.


Now you're just being dishonest for the sake of it.

Even the most minimal choice you can make in this new system is a good deal better than deciding between 1% block chance and 1% reduced cost for elemental spells for for your resto Shaman.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
akatama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Romania982 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-25 21:47:44
February 25 2016 21:46 GMT
#908
On February 26 2016 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 06:40 akatama wrote:
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:

T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).

It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.

There is no system that will change this.
If you offer a choice then one of the options will always be better and the players will gravitate towards that option.
Ever
Single
Time

It is undeniable that the current system offers more choice then the previous one did.


Except you had situational talents in the old system too and if you were in a top guild (i.e. clearing content before video guides were released) you still had to spec according to fight.

Edit: clarified a point.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-25 22:04:19
February 25 2016 21:55 GMT
#909
You don't really get enough items to need a lot of valor per week.


If you already have everything, valor basically does nothing.

If you don't have a 795 ring, you'll be running a lot of LFR every week to get ring upgrades cause the dps boost is insane and it's worth more to you than raiding heroic HFC

It is undeniable that the current system offers more choice then the previous one did.


I don't think so, right now as a hunter there are like 2 options you can switch out stylistically. Almost all of the options are way better than the things next to them, like Lone Wolf against Focusing Shot and TOTH against Steady Focus. Those are so powerful that >99% of people use them.

Having reduced CD on disengage or a speed boost on disengage is a choice, but there are very few of them. You're in cookie-cutter spec with 1 or 2 extras that you can choose, and you're stuck like that forever.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-25 21:59:49
February 25 2016 21:57 GMT
#910
I liked the old talent system just because I felt like I was getting something every level, even it was negligible like -2% mana cost off spells. The new system has so many dead levels. Also switching between talents based on the fight (Clemency if bops are needed, Hand of Purity for Archi, otherwise Unbreakable Spirit; Exec Sentence on single target, Light's Hammer for aoe, etc.) isn't super compelling, although in Legion with them trying to make every spec reasonably competitive in every fight (as opposed to now where there's niches) this is a lot more acceptable.

Also, to be fair, there are a couple times where you do actually get a choice between talents, even if they're far and few in between. For example, Final Verdict and Seraphim are both plenty viable for Ret, with things going one way or another depending on what your gear looks like and how much you can work around the ring (Seraphim benefits from you being able to sync it up with the ring). Empowered Seals might also be technically viable but everyone hates it
rip
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
February 25 2016 22:02 GMT
#911
Not to mention the talents that are just plain awesome and make your character more fun to play.

For instance, I love the hunter talent that makes your retreat into the best travel skill in the game, or the priest feather talent.

Nothing in Classic-BC even came close to that.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
February 25 2016 22:18 GMT
#912
If you already have everything, valor basically does nothing.
Dont you need it for the upgrades? I havent touched a raid since I got my legendary ring, I've just been PVPing.



the worst part of the old talent system, is that they had to prevent off-specs from getting the cool shit, so they'd put the fun shit at 40 levels in.

levelling a priest and not getting awesome damaging shit like shadowform until 40 made it so drawn out.

The new system has a lot of dead levels, but at the end of the day, the game isnt about levelling anymore. In Legion, we'll get to progress our artifact weapon while levelling, so that should be really fun to progress with.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-25 22:24:07
February 25 2016 22:23 GMT
#913
Dont you need it for the upgrades?


Yeah but once you have them you can get all of your valor almost passively
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
February 25 2016 22:29 GMT
#914
On February 26 2016 07:23 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Dont you need it for the upgrades?


Yeah but once you have them you can get all of your valor almost passively


I don't get what you mean. "Yeah, you need them, but only until you're done needing them".
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21668 Posts
February 25 2016 22:29 GMT
#915
On average you get less then an item a week? and a new item is 500 valor. 2 mythic dungeons/3 LFR wings/5 daily heroics.

Hardly a chore imo.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
yookstah
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia655 Posts
February 25 2016 22:29 GMT
#916
On February 26 2016 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:
5s rule : because not doing anything is not fun
talent system had no choice. it was all 1 cookie cutter spec. Atleast there is some choice now (yes yes cookie cutter specs still exist but there is more choice even if its on a per fight basis)
Spell ranks didn't add a lot. I played during TBC with it. Yay having 3 chain heal buttons is such engaging content...
returning to trainer is just annoying, it takes me out of my rhythm to fly back for no enjoyment gain.
Last point again added nothing. spell X is best and get spammed either way.

If your guild is bad then find a better guild. They are out there desperately looking for people.
I'm in a casual guild myself after several expansions of hard core raiding and we have progressed through normal into heroic and are now progressing in Mythic HFC with roughly the same group of people over the last 7 months.


I mean in terms of PvE there was minimal discrepancy with builds. But you had plenty of diff talent builds for PVP.

Take rogue for example:

In BC - HARP, SHS, mutilate, combat mace, etc etc etc.
"I'm saying that you are all the time aggressive. I say to you choose situations to be aggressive and not aggressive. I'm talking it" - Cooller
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
February 26 2016 00:05 GMT
#917
On February 26 2016 07:29 lestye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 07:23 Cyro wrote:
Dont you need it for the upgrades?


Yeah but once you have them you can get all of your valor almost passively


I don't get what you mean. "Yeah, you need them, but only until you're done needing them".


There are two modes: Do everything for valor - vs - you probably have 3k valor and nothing to spend it on
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
February 26 2016 00:23 GMT
#918
Spell ranks added nothing in PvE but they were decent in PvP, lower level spells could be used to cause debuffs without too much mana(level 1 swp), level frostbolt for faster cast times or blizzard/AE for detection. It was mostly reserved for casters.
WriterXiao8~~
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
February 26 2016 01:51 GMT
#919
Spell ranks were used in PvE too albiet almost entirely for healers.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
February 26 2016 02:29 GMT
#920
There were also situations like glyph of life tap in wrath.

One of the best shit on the planet, was installing that one addon that yelled at kids who were using lower ranks spells in LFG. Before then i was always amazed how people did BC-level dps in my dungeon finder groups.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
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