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5s rule : because not doing anything is not fun
talent system had no choice. it was all 1 cookie cutter spec. Atleast there is some choice now (yes yes cookie cutter specs still exist but there is more choice even if its on a per fight basis)
Spell ranks didn't add a lot. I played during TBC with it. Yay having 3 chain heal buttons is such engaging content...
returning to trainer is just annoying, it takes me out of my rhythm to fly back for no enjoyment gain.
Last point again added nothing. spell X is best and get spammed either way.
If your guild is bad then find a better guild. They are out there desperately looking for people.
I'm in a casual guild myself after several expansions of hard core raiding and we have progressed through normal into heroic and are now progressing in Mythic HFC with roughly the same group of people over the last 7 months.
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On February 26 2016 06:04 Teoita wrote:
Tbh every expansion adding 10 new points of "your ability does x% more damage!' was pretty silly, i can live without that. I rather like the current talent system, i enjoy swapping my talents to optimize for every fight.
Yeah, Classic / TBC talents were pretty boring. The new tier system isn't perfect, but much better anyway.
And the trainer system always was stupid. I mean, why does some Jabroni in Stormwind, who does nothing but stand around all day, get to tell me how to eviscerate harder? I'm the one who practices that shit 24/7.
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On February 26 2016 06:01 akatama wrote:
I pretty much gave up on anything outside raiding a few months ago. I wanted to buy some rep-gated mounts from Wrath (grinded the reps back in MoP with all the useless justice points, but was too poor to afford all those mounts at the time) when I discovered all of them had been reset to default...
What's the point of leveling a new character? Gearing is trivial, you can get normal-level gear from solo content, can't pug hc cause no ring on that alt. Can't even stand pugs in the first place, lots of loud mouths tunnelling the boss and blaming others for wiping.
Guild is almost dead outside raids and the occasional "let me do 5 tw dungeons or mythics on an alt or 2". Even our raiding roster is not looking good. We had to bring in undergeared DK alts on Mannoroth for lol-grips, now we're struggling with Archimonde cause some people can't be bothered to do tactics and either die from chains aoe or kill people with lasers. Can't replace them because we have no backups. Don't get me started on our 2 out of 3 tanks that have attendance issues (and off-spec tanks are missing proper trinkets).
WoW in general went to hell around late Wrath due to the decision to focus almost exclusively on end-game raiding. Too much standardization, too much streamlining. Cata destroyed what little flavor was left in 1-58 range. Why did you have to take away the 5s rule? The talent system? What was wrong with spell ranks and fixed mana costs? What was wrong with returning to a trainer to get new spells? What was wrong with some abilities having better scaling but worse base damage than others?
1 through 58 was really boring busywork that looks bad compared to other mmos. The talent system was replaced with a different one that offers way more choice. Spell ranks you'd only use 2 of your 8 ranks . That's not interesting gameplay. No mmo is going to come out and brag about how many ranks their spells have . The dps gameplay is about rotations, priorities, cooldowns, buff and debuff uptimes.Going back to the trainer ruined the flow and paid of levelling.
Wow has lots of problems but these are so far away from it.
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The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:
T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).
It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.
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I don't agree with much in his post, but I think he's perfectly right about standardisation and streamlining.
Everything is so neat and predictable and polished, ugh.
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On February 26 2016 06:40 akatama wrote:
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:
T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).
It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.
There is no system that will change this.
If you offer a choice then one of the options will always be better and the players will gravitate towards that option.
Ever
Single
Time
It is undeniable that the current system offers more choice then the previous one did.
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On February 26 2016 06:40 akatama wrote:
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:
T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).
It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get.
Now you're just being dishonest for the sake of it.
Even the most minimal choice you can make in this new system is a good deal better than deciding between 1% block chance and 1% reduced cost for elemental spells for for your resto Shaman.
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On February 26 2016 06:43 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 06:40 akatama wrote:
The new system isn't any better for a lot of classes. Take my warlock for example:
T15 - Dark Regen was used on a single fight the entire expansion. Harvest Life & Searing Flames are pvp only. Soul Leech is absurdly good.
T30 - Howl of Terror is useless in raids, Coil is decent only if you have slow healers, Shadowfury's aoe stun is amazing.
T45 - Are you assigned to soak something big? Yes > Dark Bargain. Soul Link vs Sac Pact is a proper choice as long as you don't sacrifice your pet (though Sac Pact is still better if you know when to use it).
T60 - Burning Rush is the only option as you only have 1 other tool to deal with movement.
T75 - Grimoire of Sacrifice is the superior dps choice for Destro and Aff, for Demo it's a proper choice
T90 - AD is the superior choice even on a fight where KJC perfectly aligns with movement. MF might as well not exist
T100 - Destro takes Charred Remains, Aff takes Soulburn: Haunt, Demo takes Cata (as the only 2 fights where Demo is good on are aoe fests).
It's not even a case of preference, the fight dictates what you need to get. There is no system that will change this. If you offer a choice then one of the options will always be better and the players will gravitate towards that option. Ever Single Time It is undeniable that the current system offers more choice then the previous one did.
Except you had situational talents in the old system too and if you were in a top guild (i.e. clearing content before video guides were released) you still had to spec according to fight.
Edit: clarified a point.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
You don't really get enough items to need a lot of valor per week.
If you already have everything, valor basically does nothing.
If you don't have a 795 ring, you'll be running a lot of LFR every week to get ring upgrades cause the dps boost is insane and it's worth more to you than raiding heroic HFC
It is undeniable that the current system offers more choice then the previous one did.
I don't think so, right now as a hunter there are like 2 options you can switch out stylistically. Almost all of the options are way better than the things next to them, like Lone Wolf against Focusing Shot and TOTH against Steady Focus. Those are so powerful that >99% of people use them.
Having reduced CD on disengage or a speed boost on disengage is a choice, but there are very few of them. You're in cookie-cutter spec with 1 or 2 extras that you can choose, and you're stuck like that forever.
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I liked the old talent system just because I felt like I was getting something every level, even it was negligible like -2% mana cost off spells. The new system has so many dead levels. Also switching between talents based on the fight (Clemency if bops are needed, Hand of Purity for Archi, otherwise Unbreakable Spirit; Exec Sentence on single target, Light's Hammer for aoe, etc.) isn't super compelling, although in Legion with them trying to make every spec reasonably competitive in every fight (as opposed to now where there's niches) this is a lot more acceptable.
Also, to be fair, there are a couple times where you do actually get a choice between talents, even if they're far and few in between. For example, Final Verdict and Seraphim are both plenty viable for Ret, with things going one way or another depending on what your gear looks like and how much you can work around the ring (Seraphim benefits from you being able to sync it up with the ring). Empowered Seals might also be technically viable but everyone hates it
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Not to mention the talents that are just plain awesome and make your character more fun to play.
For instance, I love the hunter talent that makes your retreat into the best travel skill in the game, or the priest feather talent.
Nothing in Classic-BC even came close to that.
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If you already have everything, valor basically does nothing.
Dont you need it for the upgrades? I havent touched a raid since I got my legendary ring, I've just been PVPing.
the worst part of the old talent system, is that they had to prevent off-specs from getting the cool shit, so they'd put the fun shit at 40 levels in.
levelling a priest and not getting awesome damaging shit like shadowform until 40 made it so drawn out.
The new system has a lot of dead levels, but at the end of the day, the game isnt about levelling anymore. In Legion, we'll get to progress our artifact weapon while levelling, so that should be really fun to progress with.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Dont you need it for the upgrades?
Yeah but once you have them you can get all of your valor almost passively
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On February 26 2016 07:23 Cyro wrote:Yeah but once you have them you can get all of your valor almost passively
I don't get what you mean. "Yeah, you need them, but only until you're done needing them".
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On average you get less then an item a week? and a new item is 500 valor. 2 mythic dungeons/3 LFR wings/5 daily heroics.
Hardly a chore imo.
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On February 26 2016 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:
5s rule : because not doing anything is not fun
talent system had no choice. it was all 1 cookie cutter spec. Atleast there is some choice now (yes yes cookie cutter specs still exist but there is more choice even if its on a per fight basis)
Spell ranks didn't add a lot. I played during TBC with it. Yay having 3 chain heal buttons is such engaging content...
returning to trainer is just annoying, it takes me out of my rhythm to fly back for no enjoyment gain.
Last point again added nothing. spell X is best and get spammed either way.
If your guild is bad then find a better guild. They are out there desperately looking for people.
I'm in a casual guild myself after several expansions of hard core raiding and we have progressed through normal into heroic and are now progressing in Mythic HFC with roughly the same group of people over the last 7 months.
I mean in terms of PvE there was minimal discrepancy with builds. But you had plenty of diff talent builds for PVP.
Take rogue for example:
In BC - HARP, SHS, mutilate, combat mace, etc etc etc.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On February 26 2016 07:29 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 07:23 Cyro wrote:Dont you need it for the upgrades? Yeah but once you have them you can get all of your valor almost passively I don't get what you mean. "Yeah, you need them, but only until you're done needing them".
There are two modes: Do everything for valor - vs - you probably have 3k valor and nothing to spend it on
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Spell ranks added nothing in PvE but they were decent in PvP, lower level spells could be used to cause debuffs without too much mana(level 1 swp), level frostbolt for faster cast times or blizzard/AE for detection. It was mostly reserved for casters.
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Spell ranks were used in PvE too albiet almost entirely for healers.
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There were also situations like glyph of life tap in wrath.
One of the best shit on the planet, was installing that one addon that yelled at kids who were using lower ranks spells in LFG. Before then i was always amazed how people did BC-level dps in my dungeon finder groups.
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EPT
