EPT[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 44
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BfA Community Links: GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote: I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother. Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion. Form Spreadsheet If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On February 26 2016 03:01 Seuss wrote: "We think this is cool so it's going to happen" is fine. Like I said I didn't have a problem with lorelol despite the huge retcon involved. The problem is that these days they don't retcon so much as short-circuit entire plotlines for their convenience. You're correct that the plotlines are interesting, which is why it's extremely frustrating that entire acts of the story are skipped without in-game explanation. Nozdormu shows up because reasons, Garrosh goes back in time because a dragon-wizard did it, and Ozumat was taking a nap so Neptulon snuck away. When Blizzard short-circuits these stories I'm already invested in I feel cheated, and it detracts severely from whatever awesome thing they're trying to do. Well, when I say cool I guess I mean, like, flashy and entertaining but a bit lacking in substance. An example would be the "You're the chosen one the best the best" stuff Yeah, or stuff like <character> being unceremoniously killed in a 5 man. Ner'zhul in particular got the short end of the stick, basically being written out of existence entirely for Arthas (granted, this is in part because of my personal bias against how the Wrath story was told vs. my expectations based on WC3) and then, with the rest of the WoDlords, was kind of just randomly killed off. I was really disappointed when Murozond was being dealt with in a 5 man as well. The infinite dragonflight was really cool. The void/Cho'gall's master plotline in WoD was another big thing that has just gone nowhere so far, and after the backlash to WoD I imagine it'll just be dropped entirely. Which is disappointing because the old gods are much more interesting villains than the legion i m o. Also I disagree with the person saying the way they handled Neptulon is okay because that raid was scrapped. An Azshara/naga expansion is going to happen at some point and it could've easily been dealt with there. - Part of the issue with creating new lore is it seems a greater part of the community bitches about it and hates it. See: Pandaria which still has people hating it because "lel kungfu panda" despite us getting stuff like the Paragons, Taran Zhu, Lorewalker Cho, Lei Shen, the Sha, which were all cool. Plus the fleshing out of Anduin and Wrathion. edit: The subscriber numbers have been steadily falling since they peaked early Wrath, it just looks worse in WoD because the expansion sales brought back a lot more people than MoP did. If you look at it as Cata: ended with 9 million MoP: ended with 7 million WoD: ended with 5 million Suddenly it doesn't look so bad. Yes, it is bad that WoD was unable to retain those players, but that is a result of design decisions that took hold in Wrath and Cata where this decline started. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On February 26 2016 03:51 Teoita wrote: The content drought is ALWAYS terrible at the end of an expansion, it's been like that since Wotlk and the only reason it wasn't in TBC/Vanilla was simply that BT/Sunwell/AQ40/Naxx were basically unreachable for most of the player base, so they naturally always had something to strive towards. That type of thing isn't nearly as noticable with multiple raid difficulties. I was still taking 4 hours in dungeons right up to the last week of TBC and doing dailies + farming stuff in the world (elementals, humanoids) for gold. At the moment my weekly Iron Docks mythic takes about 8 minutes. Sure, i'm better now than i was then and i'm geared - but go try to solo magisters terrace in gear that the top quarter of the population in TBC had, which is basically 5-man and crafted stuff with some badge gear. Just try it. -------- See: Pandaria which still has people hating it The heavily asian themed content (and pandas) was always quite highly controversial, a lot of people want it but a lot of people really do not want it (more than a bunch of other ideas) | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
From a casual point of view: There's WAY more content than I could hope to have time for every week. Daily Heroic, weekly quests, logging in every eight to twelve hours to send my followers on missions, Tanaan daily quests, daily BG, LFR... That doesn't even take into consideration one or two days of raiding I could do, arena I could play, pets I could level, transmog gear I could farm, achievements I could hunt... So yeah, I'd say for most players there's more than enough content. WoW isn't losing subscribers because it doesn't offer enough content, it's losing subscribers because, as opposed to 2006, there's now a lot of competition out there. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
 Also, i thought Pandaria was mostly cool, except for the "silly" interludes like Valley of the Four Winds. The Sha/Mantid/Pandaren story actually worked pretty well imo Honestly, i think WoW is losing subscribers simply because most of its players have been at it for years and years so we kind of lost that sense of wonder we had back in the day. Let's be honest year, waiting a whole afternoon to find a competent healer for Slave Pens heroic isn't much more entertaining than running LFR or the daily heroics, it's just that back then it felt more heroic and awesome than it does now because we as gamers were younger, and the game itself was younger too. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Back in 2006-2007 there were actually behemoths on the horizon that could plausibly "kill" WoW or take a huge portion of its subs. More than a few of them came and went, taking chunks out of the sub base temporarily. I had a lot of friends quit for Age of Conan in TBC. New games was always a big deal, i think back then it was a bigger thing than now and yet the subscribers were still growing. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 26 2016 03:51 Teoita wrote: The content drought is ALWAYS terrible at the end of an expansion, it's been like that since Wotlk and the only reason it wasn't in TBC/Vanilla was simply that BT/Sunwell/AQ40/Naxx were basically unreachable for most of the player base, so they naturally always had something to strive towards. That type of thing isn't nearly as noticable with multiple raid difficulties. Sure, but people have been complaining about a lack of things to do since before BRF came out. Draenor is empty of things to do once you've been max level for a couple weeks, so unless you like PvP or pet battles there's not much reason to log in outside of raids. I mean, the only reason my guild of bads still has content to do is because we raid once a week, and some would argue that running Heroic after clearing Normal is only sort of "new" content. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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lestye
United States4195 Posts
On February 26 2016 03:51 Teoita wrote: The content drought is ALWAYS terrible at the end of an expansion, it's been like that since Wotlk and the only reason it wasn't in TBC/Vanilla was simply that BT/Sunwell/AQ40/Naxx were basically unreachable for most of the player base, so they naturally always had something to strive towards. That type of thing isn't nearly as noticable with multiple raid difficulties. It's been like since BC. 11 months in BC, almost a year in ICC, almost a year in Dragon Soul, more than a year in Siege of Org. That's kinda why I really hate THIS wait, I thought the advantage of them half-assing the expansion we'd at least not have to wait a year for the next expansion :-\. On February 26 2016 03:51 TomatoBisque wrote: Well, when I say cool I guess I mean, like, flashy and entertaining but a bit lacking in substance. An example would be the "You're the chosen one the best the best" stuff Also I disagree with the person saying the way they handled Neptulon is okay because that raid was scrapped. An Azshara/naga expansion is going to happen at some point and it could've easily been dealt with there. - . I'm not one to complain about THIS BOSS DESERVES A RAID, NOT A 5MAN!!!, but I do agree they botched Nerzhuls character multiple times, including them trying to streamline the Lich King story to make it only Arthas as opposed to a combination of the two. Especailly now in the Legion Alpha + Show Spoiler + where it looks like in the DK relic quest, they're back pedalling the idea Nerzhul was long gone Eh, they KNOW what the story is going to be in the expansion after next. Ashara/Naga might be inevitable, but doesn't mean they have to hide Neptulon for 2-6 more years for that expansion. They can use him to lead the charge versus Azshara if need be. We don't really know, like what if the conclusion of the water raid or whatever in Cataclysm we get Neputlon back anyway after killing some random bosses. We're in the same place going into a hypothetical Azshara expansion anyway. Going back to your other point, looking back MoP was fantastic, we got lots of content patches, they did a good job at pushing story/characters forward. It was also the first content since Vanilla where everything/majority was COMPLETELY new. The hate on the Pandas was really immature and stupid. "Kung Fu Pandas are stupid! How could they possibly coexist in the same world as Native American Cows, talking walruses, cat centaurs, and space travelling goats!" | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Daily Heroic, weekly quests, logging in every eight to twelve hours to send my followers on missions, Tanaan daily quests, daily BG, LFR... arena I could play, pets I could level achievements I could hunt Those all give (if anything at all) valor and mediocre gear aside from the garrison missions which takes about 20 seconds a day and gives gold. I'll give you a point for the transmog farming, for those that want to build a wardrobe it's good. For the others, i farmed the 2 best sets in the game in about 6 hours last year and i'm done til next expansion. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
I will say I'm hoping theories that bolvar is under the influence of yogg or nerzhul turn out to be true | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22123 Posts
On February 26 2016 04:01 Cyro wrote: I think it's more than obvious that it's because of content, you can see that on every site with people complaining about the game. The vast majority of complaints are about content and scaling, not "this other game does X thing better than WoW". Back in 2006-2007 there were actually behemoths on the horizon that could plausibly "kill" WoW or take a huge portion of its subs. More than a few of them came and went, taking chunks out of the sub base temporarily. I had a lot of friends quit for Age of Conan in TBC. New games was always a big deal, i think back then it was a bigger thing than now and yet the subscribers were still growing. WoW grew big, like hugely big so people rushed in to get a piece of the pie. Almost all of them did something right and more things wrong. WoW would then sweep in and 'steal' the good thing for themselves as the game slowly died because it wasn't actually better then WoW. Publishers then stopped trying after getting their hands burned and realizing that making a good MMO is a lot harder then it seems. So they moved on to another genre to try the same thing there (MOBA's for a while). Legion is now borrowing from Diablo 3 because there has not been a new MMO to actually steal idea's from. Can't really comment on the lack (or not) of content because like Teoita I tended to run out of things to do after a few weeks/months (only grinding stuff left that I was not willing to do) and would log on for raids and some character maintenance. I play WoW because I enjoy raiding and have not found a game that does it better. | ||
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lestye
United States4195 Posts
On February 26 2016 04:13 TomatoBisque wrote: Fair point about neptulon I guess, it just feels so random to me. I will say I'm hoping theories that bolvar is under the influence of yogg or nerzhul turn out to be true Eh, my guess it's more of a super ego thing. We don't actually know anything about what makes the Lich King, the lich king. That was kind of a weird cop-out thing from Wrath, I didn't mind, they came out of nowhere with this "There must always be a Lich King" thing in the last patch. So yeah, maybe there's a greater superego that comes with the helmet, and the job. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 26 2016 04:03 Teoita wrote: I can't really relate to the "nothing to do outside of raids thing" btw, mostly because that's kind of how i've always played WoW. Either log on for raid nights 3/4 times a week, plus farm or level an alt another couple of times a week Back in the day I spent the hours outside of raiding:
Today nothing on that lists takes a significant amount of time, if any at all. Garrisons have replaced the time-consuming tasks of farming materials and doing daily quests with button presses that take seconds. Dungeons are obsolete almost as soon as you hit 100, which takes less time than ever.. Guildies don't need help because there's nothing that requires help outside of the odd achievement. If not for obsessively leveling an alt for every class and investing time in getting their garrisons optimized I'd have run out of things that interested me almost as soon as I'd started raiding. I understand why Blizzard has been streamlining all these things, but the end result is that instead of having a wealth of PvE options available to you at max level, you're stuck raiding and only raiding. Variety is the spice of life etc. etc. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
TBC was by far my best time in WoW. I wanted to see Karazhan, I wanted to partake in the battle for Hyjal, I wanted to fight Illidan and Lady Vashj. That drive gave purpose to my character progression, made me find friends on whom I could count to do Heroics with, drove me to farm Elemental Fire / Wind / Mana. It all really seemed worth it. This time around, instead of seeing the final boss of the expansion with five good friends and nineteen competent guild members, I get to faceroll to Archimonde in LFR, in bite-sized chunks, with not even a chance to fail. Yeah I could invest hundreds of hours to be able to see a stronger version of him in Mythic, but meh... | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22123 Posts
On February 26 2016 04:45 DickMcFanny wrote: What took a lot of enjoyment out of the game for me is that attitude Blizzard has about every player being able to see every bit of content. Maybe that makes sense to shareholders, but for me it just kills the mood being able to ding max level and a couple hours later see the final boss of the expansion with a group of 24 Jabronis who might as well be bots, for all the interaction one has with them. TBC was by far my best time in WoW. I wanted to see Karazhan, I wanted to partake in the battle for Hyjal, I wanted to fight Illidan and Lady Vashj. That drive gave purpose to my character progression, made me find friends on whom I could count to do Heroics with, drove me to farm Elemental Fire / Wind / Mana. It all really seemed worth it. This time around, instead of seeing the final boss of the expansion with five good friends and nineteen competent guild members, I get to faceroll to Archimonde in LFR, in bite-sized chunks, with not even a chance to fail. Yeah I could invest hundreds of hours to be able to see a stronger version of him in Mythic, but meh... see I dont get this. If all you went to do is see the end boss then he is right there as you said at the end of LFR. If you want an actual challenge to get to him then you can pick whatever difficulty suits your skill level and see him with 5 good friends and 19 competent guild members. The content you want is still right there for you to take. All that has changes is that if your a horrible player or you don't have the time for raiding you can still see Archimond and experience it (even tho LFR is hardly experiencing). What your basically saying is you want to the game to force you to do something you don't enjoy because you then enjoy it? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
I understand why Blizzard has been streamlining all these things, but the end result is that instead of having a wealth of PvE options available to you at max level, you're stuck raiding and only raiding. Variety is the spice of life etc. etc. Multi-diff makes that worse. I've cleared HFC start to finish 40 times (progressing through normal to heroic to mythic, few LFR's for valor when neccesary, a lot of clearing 2 difficulties per week for gear as that was the best way to go) and the expansion might not hit for another 5 or 6 months | ||
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