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Does anybody use scouts like mutas, when they have an advantage (such as a easy third expo, successful DT drop)
because they are fun to use like mutas?
Also, coupled with a few shield battery (like 2~3) it is almost invincible against scourges, mutas, and lonely devourers. If microed right, hydras can't do much because of scouts range, speed and versatibilitly(sp??)
I hope most of you know this, but when scout vs. scourges, you can micro and not lose a scout unless they come with about 100 or from all sides.
The key is to let scourges follow you while scouts are stacked. Control like you are controlling mutas, but use patrol instead of Attack+left click. This can be done with vultures also.
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Well we're talking about a serious advantage here. Scouts are stupidly sluggish without the speed grade which needs a beacon by which time you might as well try for carriers
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You mean vultures can evade & kill scourges too? Awesome.
Anyway, scouts costs a lot of resources. You're looking at this purely from an offensive side, but how are you going to defend against mass hydra with a scout? Sure you can run, but it isn't "invincible" as you claim. Maybe your scout will survive while all your buildings get raped.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
since when did scout range own hydra range? wtf
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I'm saying the scout range is 1+ (or 2+) then mutas. So that means less hydra hits per attack. Being able to fly helps also.
I mean vulture aginst zealot -.-
This is just a "fun game" suggestion. Scout are pretty much useless in a real game unless zerg has like 4 unprotected OV near your base
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Belgium8305 Posts
you can do this when you're so far ahead that you basically can't lose
pretty pointless
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may be if Scouts should be cheaper, they can be viable to use them like this
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Show us ur scout skill oh greatest one. Post a replay for non-believers ^_^
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On January 11 2007 06:06 vGl-CoW wrote:
you can do this when you're so far ahead that you basically can't lose
pretty pointless
all said
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Well, how many scouts do you need to kill a drone in one wave? Think of the cost of that.
Couple that with the added cost of fleet beacon+speed upgrade (combined cost of I believe 550/450)
Basically, by going scouts, you've lost any lead you would have gotten with your successful drops or whatever.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
scouts are SOOOOOO SLOW
you have no idea
they're like sumo-sairs
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You people are just too robotized to think. He ment a fun game. No, it won't work vs someone who's really good, or that could have won anyway, but it will work as a surprise element. Andrei (porc, for those who heard of/and probably hate him) did this a lot in "fun" games, versus some pretty good players. I have tons of replays, if you need any please say so.
Most often he did it as a suprise-element vs zerg. He went fast-expo with minimal defence, like 3 zeals, cann (risky, but who cares, it's for fun), and then double port inside his main. Zergs who won't mass hydra vs expo will try to
a) contain you - won't help vs scouts
b) muta - scouts > muta if he doesn't come too fast, and if he does, sairs will do
c) expo a lot and defend -> this is where it shines.
I'm not saying it works all the time, it would only work once because the opponent would never expect scouts from a FE toss.
So just attack when you have like 10, and speed upgrade. He'll probably have a bunch of lurks, 2 expos and such, but not many spores (if any). You can just move back and forward his mineral line, as 10 scouts will do plenty of damage to drones, and later on, when you have like 20, take out key-buildings like defiler/hydra den/evo chambers, etc. Muta tech is useless once you have 10 scouts and he's just laying spire, so he'll just try to chase you with hydra. The key would be to kill as many things before he masses spore colonies. Who wants replays? 
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On January 11 2007 07:40 GrandInquisitor wrote:
scouts are SOOOOOO SLOW
you have no idea
they're like sumo-sairs
Scout speed upgrade = they are faster than sairs.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 11 2007 08:05 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 07:40 GrandInquisitor wrote:
scouts are SOOOOOO SLOW
you have no idea
they're like sumo-sairs Scout speed upgrade = they are faster than sairs.
Scout speed upgrade = fleet beacon
Fleet beacon = why not go for carriers
To those saying, well, it's just for fun - there are a TON of things you can do that are just for fun against players worse than you. Doomdropping. Pure goons. 2base carrier. Cliff cannoning. Proxygating in his base during midgame. Doesn't change the fact that we can still tell you how badly the strategy sucks, esp. since the original poster was serious. If you want to try a fun but not possibly crippling strategy to use when you are ahead, try goon/sair in PvT
(plus, 10 scouts costs like eighty gazillion minerals and gas and you might even get run over by a noob hydra zerg that attack-clicks into your base)
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ok, one really good strategy is going one gate tech and instead of cors get 2scouts-it pwns.
if you play vs lower skilled player you can go fast expo into fast storm into 3stargate scouts-or scouts 1st and then storm,whatever.
scouts are awesome if u rush with them because u can take down his lords Much faster+u can kill x number of drones since his hydras don't have range so on maps with cliffs you can micro your scouts around where hydra can't hit 'em.
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It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something?
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On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something?
Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On January 11 2007 09:07 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something? Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose. Speaking on original purpose, I wouldn't call a fucking expensive slow-building slow-moving airplane with a shitload of hp and an affinity to take on heavy air targets a "scout".
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ok scouts are awesome against devourers and guardians-i say guards cuz they kill 'em faster than cors and it takes 3scourge to kill a scout-problem is scouts are made 2slow-but if production speed was increased then the scout rush would be imba-you could own any zerg with scout rush :DD
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On January 11 2007 09:26 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 09:07 Slayer91 wrote:On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something? Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose. Speaking on original purpose, I wouldn't call a fucking expensive slow-building slow-moving airplane with a shitload of hp and an affinity to take on heavy air targets a "scout".
IIRC, the manual makes a point out of saying that such a powerful unit as the Scout is still only considered a scout by the Protoss, whose technology and unit superioriy is just that amazing.
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One scout is only good if you have already scouted he made a quick spore and no hydras vs your perceived "sair"/dt opening. That way you can force him to waste more resources on a late hydra den, and most likely get an ol or 2, or a few drones.
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Shouldn't be a problem unless the zergs go under the land.
In all seriousness though if you can win by going mass scouts you're more or less masturbating on his broken body. Fairly unnecessary.
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On January 11 2007 11:22 Haemonculus wrote:
In all seriousness though if you can win by going mass scouts you're more or less masturbating on his broken body. Fairly unnecessary.
....ew???
please toss users, mass scouts and make it easier for us zergies =]
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On January 11 2007 11:22 Haemonculus wrote:
In all seriousness though if you can win by going mass scouts you're more or less masturbating on his (her) broken (comatose) body. Fairly unnecessary.
EVA? 
On January 11 2007 11:34 j0ehoe wrote:
please toss users, mass scouts and make it easier for us zergies =]
Scout/zeal Evan style!
Honestly, now, why is nobody mentioning overlord hunting? With 6 scouts you can mutamicro to one-hit-kill drones (they have 8 ground attack, or is it 12 and wraiths have 8 ~_~?). With 8 scouts, you can mutamicro to one-hit-kill overlords. Let's say you get 4 scouts quietly because you know your opponent is going hive with no hydra upgrdes. That's not that unreasonable at all, as scouts demolish guardians, and you can use them in a scout/dt combo against ultraling. If you're a bit ahead but still wary of something (maybe you opened sair/dt->expo and have stargate already), then sure, adding scouts can be fun and a bit useful. The OP did say "fun to use" in the first post--just because something else is more fun to you or whatever doesn't mean he deserves to be that bashed.
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Heh.. People here seem to support building 20 cannons and then say 1100 for 4 scouts is a game loser.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 11 2007 10:41 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 09:26 BluzMan wrote:On January 11 2007 09:07 Slayer91 wrote:On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something? Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose. Speaking on original purpose, I wouldn't call a fucking expensive slow-building slow-moving airplane with a shitload of hp and an affinity to take on heavy air targets a "scout". IIRC, the manual makes a point out of saying that such a powerful unit as the Scout is still only considered a scout by the Protoss, whose technology and unit superioriy is just that amazing.
Inflation...the one thing their advanced technology apparently couldn't defeat
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making 2scouts can be awesome-if player goes lurk-ling you can run into his base while he's morphing the lurkers and take down the ovies-cuz he ain't got hydras to protect 'em.
also as mentioned before you can harass his drones,i love harassing their gas drones cuz their spore never protects the gas,there is always an angle from which you can shoot while not get shot at.
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Toss users just haven't found an effective time and place to use them. Scouts are not a strategy to be used over and over 9 (like FE, 1Gate tech etc) but it can throw an opponent somewhat off balance as a surprise.
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a group of 3-4 scouts can be quite usefull midgame/lategame pvz
not only can you harass and force the zerg to build spores, scouts are good vs air units and they also distract hydras/scourge/mutas in a big fight, making them easier to storm
and 3 -4 scouts are probably the last thing the zerg expects midgame/lategame and can fool the z into making too many hydras/spores/scourge to counter them, which is really a good thing for p, and if u have a lot of minerals scouts are just a little bit more expensive than corsairs mineral wise.
of course mass scouts completely suck unless ur wayyy ahead
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mentally weaker oponents will get frustrated cuz it's degrading to be attacked by scout in zvp :D like "wtf,am i that noob?"
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scouts would be a lot better if they shot missiles at ground units like on the back of the box
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Mass scouts is one of the few concepts that gets me to reinstall BW from time to time.
Mass scouts vs. mass hydras is one of the concepts that gets me to uninstall BW in the first place.
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Has anyone even bothered to look at my perfectly reasonable examples? -_-
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United States20661 Posts
scout rush does force z to make hydralisk den, because if he just makes evo chamber/spore you can go around and beat stuff up. rA did this versus JulyZerg [he only built 1 scout, then sair switch]
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On January 11 2007 17:00 greatmeh wrote:
a group of 3-4 scouts can be quite usefull midgame/lategame pvz
not only can you harass and force the zerg to build spores, scouts are good vs air units and they also distract hydras/scourge/mutas in a big fight, making them easier to storm
and 3 -4 scouts are probably the last thing the zerg expects midgame/lategame and can fool the z into making too many hydras/spores/scourge to counter them, which is really a good thing for p, and if u have a lot of minerals scouts are just a little bit more expensive than corsairs mineral wise.
of course mass scouts completely suck unless ur wayyy ahead
Well I guess the problem w/ scouts is that unlike sair who attacks ovi automatically. Scouts will prefer attacking Hydralisks and promptly getting owned T_T
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On January 11 2007 19:27 evanthebouncy~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 17:00 greatmeh wrote:
a group of 3-4 scouts can be quite usefull midgame/lategame pvz
not only can you harass and force the zerg to build spores, scouts are good vs air units and they also distract hydras/scourge/mutas in a big fight, making them easier to storm
and 3 -4 scouts are probably the last thing the zerg expects midgame/lategame and can fool the z into making too many hydras/spores/scourge to counter them, which is really a good thing for p, and if u have a lot of minerals scouts are just a little bit more expensive than corsairs mineral wise.
of course mass scouts completely suck unless ur wayyy ahead Well I guess the problem w/ scouts is that unlike sair who attacks ovi automatically. Scouts will prefer attacking Hydralisks and promptly getting owned T_T
since when do units do something on their own in bw? that's why it is the best rts out there,if u can't handle the scouts just because they can't read your mind and attack what u want them to it doesn't mean their attack priority should be fixed.
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On January 11 2007 09:07 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something? Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose.
Are you braindead? Wtf has this to do with my post? Not to mention, that Zerg doesn't have neither BC, nor Carriers, so wtf are you posting?!!?
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Guys we all know Garimto used to use them in some games... some of them 
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 12 2007 01:39 Dendra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 19:27 evanthebouncy~ wrote:On January 11 2007 17:00 greatmeh wrote:
a group of 3-4 scouts can be quite usefull midgame/lategame pvz
not only can you harass and force the zerg to build spores, scouts are good vs air units and they also distract hydras/scourge/mutas in a big fight, making them easier to storm
and 3 -4 scouts are probably the last thing the zerg expects midgame/lategame and can fool the z into making too many hydras/spores/scourge to counter them, which is really a good thing for p, and if u have a lot of minerals scouts are just a little bit more expensive than corsairs mineral wise.
of course mass scouts completely suck unless ur wayyy ahead Well I guess the problem w/ scouts is that unlike sair who attacks ovi automatically. Scouts will prefer attacking Hydralisks and promptly getting owned T_T since when do units do something on their own in bw? that's why it is the best rts out there,if u can't handle the scouts just because they can't read your mind and attack what u want them to it doesn't mean their attack priority should be fixed.
Yeah, I mean, who *doesn't* use their zealots and archons to manually target the zerglings and ignore the ultras? Who said fighting ultraling was hard?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 11 2007 10:41 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 09:26 BluzMan wrote:On January 11 2007 09:07 Slayer91 wrote:On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something? Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose. Speaking on original purpose, I wouldn't call a fucking expensive slow-building slow-moving airplane with a shitload of hp and an affinity to take on heavy air targets a "scout". IIRC, the manual makes a point out of saying that such a powerful unit as the Scout is still only considered a scout by the Protoss, whose technology and unit superioriy is just that amazing. Yeah and I think they then thought about making a real game.
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On January 11 2007 07:40 GrandInquisitor wrote:
scouts are SOOOOOO SLOW
you have no idea
they're like sumo-sairs
Hahaha but they're worth using most of the time 
Get like 12 Scouts, upgrade, and attack attack attack
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Landing down on several brainless suggestions:
1) Scout/DT instead of Sair/DT. Doesn't make sense since
a) You're basically forcing the zerg to focus on detection/anti-air. Zero harass possibility with those scouts.
b) 1 Scout > 2 Sairs in terms of overlord killing. 15 Scouts <<<<<<< 15 Sairs in terms of overlord killing. Remember splash. And with sair/DT you need to kill ovies in very large numbers and very fast. Not to mention plague/ensnare levels DT to the ground, just many zergs panic when they see that and forget these wonderful options.
2) Muta micro with scouts. They are basically very slow, and don't hit hard. Mutas make more damage, and cost approximately twice as less. It's fun to kill a worker line with mutas, but killing a worker line with scouts is impractical just because your scouts cost much more than the workers themselves and zerg doesn't suffer any rebuild troubles. Especially if you opt to scout speed ugrade.
3) Scouts are good vs ground. Now let's see. Just in terms of minerals, 1 Scout = 11 lings. Now try to answer a very interesting quiestion:
Will 3 scouts kill 33 lings before they tear down all of your buildings?
Hint: no.
4) Scouts work vs scourges or mutas. Hell no. Doesn't even need an explanation. With explosive damage and such high projectile speed, they are total shit versus both, regardless of numbers.
So this leaves us with two options for PvZ scouts:
1) Opening with 1 scout. Can be really good, as 1 scout is much better at ovie killing than 1 sair and it can actually harass ground. With such ovie killing ability, it is possible to make a timed attack at the zerg so that he won't be able to reinforce for a short time. That's what Ra did vs July and it worked to some extent.
2) Late game vs tier 3 zerg air. Actually, scouts are indeed better than sairs at killing devourers because they don't suffer that much from high devourer armor and somewhat neglect acid spores. Still not widely used because:
a) Acid spores is good with devourers themselves, but it works unreal wonders with mutas (effectively doubling their damage). And as we already know, with explosive damage, scouts < mutas.
b) Zerg can just morph mutas into devourers faster than you can build 1 scout. Too much reaction time.
c) There are just so many better options. Maelstorm, psi storm, even statis.
On January 11 2007 10:41 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2007 09:26 BluzMan wrote:On January 11 2007 09:07 Slayer91 wrote:On January 11 2007 08:53 lololol wrote:
It would be much better and cost effective to build carriers, which have quite higher damage vs ground, range and survivability. Against scourge you can use archons over ground or some corsair backup and scouts ARE NOT IN ANY WAY EVEN REMOTELY GOOD vs scourge and you say they are nearly invincible?!?!?! Are you drunk or something? Scouts are really good vs BC's and Carriers. Its like they original purpose. Speaking on original purpose, I wouldn't call a fucking expensive slow-building slow-moving airplane with a shitload of hp and an affinity to take on heavy air targets a "scout". IIRC, the manual makes a point out of saying that such a powerful unit as the Scout is still only considered a scout by the Protoss, whose technology and unit superioriy is just that amazing.
Omg, GIEV ME THOSE TECHNOLOGIES!!!!!!
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
Well this has been most instructive.
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EPT
