• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:03
CET 01:03
KST 09:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League73Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Oceanic Brood War - Join and chat! Bot on ladder BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8928 users

My ideas to compensate the swarmhost nerf

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
April 14 2015 22:42 GMT
#1
Intro

First of all I want to precise that I'm a bio terran player so sorry in advance if the following suggestions seems a little biased.

When I saw all the complains about the sh nerf I was just telling myself that it was to early for zergs to whine and that zerg would figure something out on their own. That's exactly what some people were saying during the era of gglords and imbators and it was exactly what some other people where saying during the msc completely broken.

The fact is that if we don't try to anticipate the meta (to some extends) we are just going to have some useless, none fun game to watch for months and I do not want that.

Why the compensations?

Before swarmhost (end of wol), people dealt with mech in different way. The most common mech build was the mvp 3 cc/hellion/banshee and double upgrade (there was a similar bio build that made both build more powerful). Zergs were able to analyse the problem and found different ways to deal with it, passive with a big composition switches or some early roaches(sometime with hydras) timings. Those games with the roaches doom drop where so funny to watch.

But a few balance changes occurred since then. The banshee cloak cost decrease, hellbat arrived, thor 250 mm canon, nerf of the fungal and infested terran , upgraded air/ground combined, mines arrived etc etc. Of course zergs got their own buffs but they where created to counter the bio.

My suggestions

The raven: I believe that this is one of the more interesting unit of the game... except...when the terran is massing them, then it become painfully stupid.

TvT is so fun to watch and play right know because of it, it is even really good in the other match up too. It can be a defensive unit (pdd, turret) a great harass unit (turret in mineral lines, bombing the workers whhile droppîng elsewhere etc) and a cool support unit because of the detection (creep, borrow, dts). Look at this move and tell me that this is not why you are watching sc;

.

The problem is that terran are not making it in those match-up because of the big techlab restriction.

This is how, I think, this unit could be fix, make it so terran player can only make one at a time (like the msc for protoss). That would mean a pretty big nerf. This is why we can at the same time buff the unit itself, for example, make it easier to build or decrease its cost. The best idea imo would be to build it from an OC if the starport is already build. We could see a raven every game and it would suppress the problem of mass ravens.

I know that a lot of people will counter this suggestion by saying that this is not warcraft (i never played it), but the idea is not to make the raven a terran hero. I believe that this change will increase the skillgap in the good way. Seeing pro player micro and multitask with it will be so cool.

The infestors: It used to be a useful spell caster with no auto attacks. Now they are quite boring, zergs make them when they are ahead or for the the money fungal when they are too far behind.

My idea is to buff neutral parasite. Seriously, I don't think this spell was used once since hots (even before that I believe). Make it possible to use it against any units, suppress the upgrade so we can use the spell directly, increase the range . If the unit is then to strong, a good way to balance it would be to nerf the infested units by removing the attack upgrades during the infestation or simply decrease the time of the infestation.

Overlords: I also think that overlord drops are underused lately. I think a good idea would be to create another upgrade (lair) to increase their armors. I missed the roach doom drop or seeing baneling being dropped on the top of death balls.
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
April 14 2015 23:00 GMT
#2
honestly, I just feel like fungal should be rebuffed slightly. not to WOL levels, but back from the pitiful level its at now. its so hard to use, i think you ahve to be confident in your ability to play excellently to use it. even pros only build a few just in case. and actually for the most part, those games that they've built infestors in they tend to lose.
Blahhh
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
April 14 2015 23:05 GMT
#3
Though, that does mean to something close to infestor broodlord nowadays with no swarm hosts...
Blahhh
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16103 Posts
April 14 2015 23:20 GMT
#4
The fact is that if we don't try to anticipate the meta (to some extends) we are just going to have some useless, none fun game to watch for months and I do not want that.

and if we do balance changes based on wrong anticipations we are also going to see useless, none fun game to watch for month.
you can't just buff one race because you think it is to weak without any statistics that support your claims.
If mech dominates gsl and proleague in the next few months then we can argue about making balance changes.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
zelevin
Profile Joined January 2012
United States330 Posts
April 14 2015 23:21 GMT
#5
If only there was a public test server or something like that where blizzard could actively test changes of the game... Oh wait, that did exist, it was just never used.
"You're the idiot, idiot. That's why your fuckin' name is Idiot." - Artosis to CSG
Riquiz
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands402 Posts
April 14 2015 23:22 GMT
#6
It's not a nerf, it's a design decision and zerg will figure it out eventually.
Caster man does casting on yt/RiquizCasts
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:26:12
April 14 2015 23:24 GMT
#7
On April 15 2015 08:00 Isarios wrote:
honestly, I just feel like fungal should be rebuffed slightly. not to WOL levels, but back from the pitiful level its at now. its so hard to use, i think you ahve to be confident in your ability to play excellently to use it. even pros only build a few just in case. and actually for the most part, those games that they've built infestors in they tend to lose.


Fungal growth needs their missile speed to be set to 15 again.

They nerfed it to 12 just in the end of HotS beta.


And Broodlords deserve the speed buff they have been needing for ages. All capital units move at 1.88 speed (slow speed standard) except it. That and move-shot micro (removal of damage point)
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
April 14 2015 23:28 GMT
#8
Ok but what to you think about the raven suggestion? They nerfed (or redesign if you prefer that term) sh because of "long boring games" but know mass terran air will replace it.
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:32:01
April 14 2015 23:31 GMT
#9
On April 15 2015 08:28 Skyblueone wrote:
Ok but what to you think about the raven suggestion? They nerfed (or redesign if you prefer that term) sh because of "long boring games" but know mass terran air will replace it.


About the raven? Supply cost incresed to 3. Mass raven 50% weaker by default. (all air casters cost 3 supply, even BW science vessel)
Banshee supply cost set to 2.

Potential buffs to the raven would be to adjust PDD and seeker missile and buff Raven move speed.
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
April 14 2015 23:33 GMT
#10
Please take balance suggestions to battle.net.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 114
SpeCial 31
RuFF_SC2 8
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1078
Rain 1061
Artosis 658
ProTech153
Dota 2
syndereN481
NeuroSwarm137
League of Legends
Doublelift4214
JimRising 709
Trikslyr48
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3213
Other Games
summit1g10322
shahzam572
Cr1tdota401
C9.Mang0294
PiGStarcraft188
Maynarde90
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick866
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 102
• RyuSc2 28
• musti20045 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 34
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1120
• Lourlo227
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
10h 57m
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
23h 57m
The PondCast
1d 9h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 10h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Yamato Cup
5 days
Map Test Tournament
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Rogue vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
ShieldBattery League 1
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.