• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:19
CEST 01:19
KST 08:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call3[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Toronto invitational lan 22 august Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals [ASL22] Ro24 Group C
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4804 users

My ideas to compensate the swarmhost nerf

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
April 14 2015 22:42 GMT
#1
Intro

First of all I want to precise that I'm a bio terran player so sorry in advance if the following suggestions seems a little biased.

When I saw all the complains about the sh nerf I was just telling myself that it was to early for zergs to whine and that zerg would figure something out on their own. That's exactly what some people were saying during the era of gglords and imbators and it was exactly what some other people where saying during the msc completely broken.

The fact is that if we don't try to anticipate the meta (to some extends) we are just going to have some useless, none fun game to watch for months and I do not want that.

Why the compensations?

Before swarmhost (end of wol), people dealt with mech in different way. The most common mech build was the mvp 3 cc/hellion/banshee and double upgrade (there was a similar bio build that made both build more powerful). Zergs were able to analyse the problem and found different ways to deal with it, passive with a big composition switches or some early roaches(sometime with hydras) timings. Those games with the roaches doom drop where so funny to watch.

But a few balance changes occurred since then. The banshee cloak cost decrease, hellbat arrived, thor 250 mm canon, nerf of the fungal and infested terran , upgraded air/ground combined, mines arrived etc etc. Of course zergs got their own buffs but they where created to counter the bio.

My suggestions

The raven: I believe that this is one of the more interesting unit of the game... except...when the terran is massing them, then it become painfully stupid.

TvT is so fun to watch and play right know because of it, it is even really good in the other match up too. It can be a defensive unit (pdd, turret) a great harass unit (turret in mineral lines, bombing the workers whhile droppîng elsewhere etc) and a cool support unit because of the detection (creep, borrow, dts). Look at this move and tell me that this is not why you are watching sc;

.

The problem is that terran are not making it in those match-up because of the big techlab restriction.

This is how, I think, this unit could be fix, make it so terran player can only make one at a time (like the msc for protoss). That would mean a pretty big nerf. This is why we can at the same time buff the unit itself, for example, make it easier to build or decrease its cost. The best idea imo would be to build it from an OC if the starport is already build. We could see a raven every game and it would suppress the problem of mass ravens.

I know that a lot of people will counter this suggestion by saying that this is not warcraft (i never played it), but the idea is not to make the raven a terran hero. I believe that this change will increase the skillgap in the good way. Seeing pro player micro and multitask with it will be so cool.

The infestors: It used to be a useful spell caster with no auto attacks. Now they are quite boring, zergs make them when they are ahead or for the the money fungal when they are too far behind.

My idea is to buff neutral parasite. Seriously, I don't think this spell was used once since hots (even before that I believe). Make it possible to use it against any units, suppress the upgrade so we can use the spell directly, increase the range . If the unit is then to strong, a good way to balance it would be to nerf the infested units by removing the attack upgrades during the infestation or simply decrease the time of the infestation.

Overlords: I also think that overlord drops are underused lately. I think a good idea would be to create another upgrade (lair) to increase their armors. I missed the roach doom drop or seeing baneling being dropped on the top of death balls.
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
April 14 2015 23:00 GMT
#2
honestly, I just feel like fungal should be rebuffed slightly. not to WOL levels, but back from the pitiful level its at now. its so hard to use, i think you ahve to be confident in your ability to play excellently to use it. even pros only build a few just in case. and actually for the most part, those games that they've built infestors in they tend to lose.
Blahhh
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
April 14 2015 23:05 GMT
#3
Though, that does mean to something close to infestor broodlord nowadays with no swarm hosts...
Blahhh
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16086 Posts
April 14 2015 23:20 GMT
#4
The fact is that if we don't try to anticipate the meta (to some extends) we are just going to have some useless, none fun game to watch for months and I do not want that.

and if we do balance changes based on wrong anticipations we are also going to see useless, none fun game to watch for month.
you can't just buff one race because you think it is to weak without any statistics that support your claims.
If mech dominates gsl and proleague in the next few months then we can argue about making balance changes.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
zelevin
Profile Joined January 2012
United States324 Posts
April 14 2015 23:21 GMT
#5
If only there was a public test server or something like that where blizzard could actively test changes of the game... Oh wait, that did exist, it was just never used.
"You're the idiot, idiot. That's why your fuckin' name is Idiot." - Artosis to CSG
Riquiz
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands402 Posts
April 14 2015 23:22 GMT
#6
It's not a nerf, it's a design decision and zerg will figure it out eventually.
Caster man does casting on yt/RiquizCasts
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:26:12
April 14 2015 23:24 GMT
#7
On April 15 2015 08:00 Isarios wrote:
honestly, I just feel like fungal should be rebuffed slightly. not to WOL levels, but back from the pitiful level its at now. its so hard to use, i think you ahve to be confident in your ability to play excellently to use it. even pros only build a few just in case. and actually for the most part, those games that they've built infestors in they tend to lose.


Fungal growth needs their missile speed to be set to 15 again.

They nerfed it to 12 just in the end of HotS beta.


And Broodlords deserve the speed buff they have been needing for ages. All capital units move at 1.88 speed (slow speed standard) except it. That and move-shot micro (removal of damage point)
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
April 14 2015 23:28 GMT
#8
Ok but what to you think about the raven suggestion? They nerfed (or redesign if you prefer that term) sh because of "long boring games" but know mass terran air will replace it.
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:32:01
April 14 2015 23:31 GMT
#9
On April 15 2015 08:28 Skyblueone wrote:
Ok but what to you think about the raven suggestion? They nerfed (or redesign if you prefer that term) sh because of "long boring games" but know mass terran air will replace it.


About the raven? Supply cost incresed to 3. Mass raven 50% weaker by default. (all air casters cost 3 supply, even BW science vessel)
Banshee supply cost set to 2.

Potential buffs to the raven would be to adjust PDD and seeker missile and buff Raven move speed.
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
April 14 2015 23:33 GMT
#10
Please take balance suggestions to battle.net.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech148
SpeCial 139
BRAT_OK 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Shine 13
Bale 12
Dota 2
XaKoH 619
monkeys_forever272
NeuroSwarm141
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift6437
JimRising 515
Counter-Strike
minikerr115
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King155
Other Games
gofns18859
Liquid`RaSZi1987
ToD275
Livibee52
Nathanias40
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1054
BasetradeTV24
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 75
• RyuSc2 27
• davetesta9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21871
Other Games
• imaqtpie1678
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
10h 41m
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
16h 41m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 10h
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
1d 11h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.