• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:39
CET 17:39
KST 01:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion6Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 105
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion Video Footage from 2005: The Birth of G2 in Spain [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2528 users

My ideas to compensate the swarmhost nerf

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
April 14 2015 22:42 GMT
#1
Intro

First of all I want to precise that I'm a bio terran player so sorry in advance if the following suggestions seems a little biased.

When I saw all the complains about the sh nerf I was just telling myself that it was to early for zergs to whine and that zerg would figure something out on their own. That's exactly what some people were saying during the era of gglords and imbators and it was exactly what some other people where saying during the msc completely broken.

The fact is that if we don't try to anticipate the meta (to some extends) we are just going to have some useless, none fun game to watch for months and I do not want that.

Why the compensations?

Before swarmhost (end of wol), people dealt with mech in different way. The most common mech build was the mvp 3 cc/hellion/banshee and double upgrade (there was a similar bio build that made both build more powerful). Zergs were able to analyse the problem and found different ways to deal with it, passive with a big composition switches or some early roaches(sometime with hydras) timings. Those games with the roaches doom drop where so funny to watch.

But a few balance changes occurred since then. The banshee cloak cost decrease, hellbat arrived, thor 250 mm canon, nerf of the fungal and infested terran , upgraded air/ground combined, mines arrived etc etc. Of course zergs got their own buffs but they where created to counter the bio.

My suggestions

The raven: I believe that this is one of the more interesting unit of the game... except...when the terran is massing them, then it become painfully stupid.

TvT is so fun to watch and play right know because of it, it is even really good in the other match up too. It can be a defensive unit (pdd, turret) a great harass unit (turret in mineral lines, bombing the workers whhile droppîng elsewhere etc) and a cool support unit because of the detection (creep, borrow, dts). Look at this move and tell me that this is not why you are watching sc;

.

The problem is that terran are not making it in those match-up because of the big techlab restriction.

This is how, I think, this unit could be fix, make it so terran player can only make one at a time (like the msc for protoss). That would mean a pretty big nerf. This is why we can at the same time buff the unit itself, for example, make it easier to build or decrease its cost. The best idea imo would be to build it from an OC if the starport is already build. We could see a raven every game and it would suppress the problem of mass ravens.

I know that a lot of people will counter this suggestion by saying that this is not warcraft (i never played it), but the idea is not to make the raven a terran hero. I believe that this change will increase the skillgap in the good way. Seeing pro player micro and multitask with it will be so cool.

The infestors: It used to be a useful spell caster with no auto attacks. Now they are quite boring, zergs make them when they are ahead or for the the money fungal when they are too far behind.

My idea is to buff neutral parasite. Seriously, I don't think this spell was used once since hots (even before that I believe). Make it possible to use it against any units, suppress the upgrade so we can use the spell directly, increase the range . If the unit is then to strong, a good way to balance it would be to nerf the infested units by removing the attack upgrades during the infestation or simply decrease the time of the infestation.

Overlords: I also think that overlord drops are underused lately. I think a good idea would be to create another upgrade (lair) to increase their armors. I missed the roach doom drop or seeing baneling being dropped on the top of death balls.
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
April 14 2015 23:00 GMT
#2
honestly, I just feel like fungal should be rebuffed slightly. not to WOL levels, but back from the pitiful level its at now. its so hard to use, i think you ahve to be confident in your ability to play excellently to use it. even pros only build a few just in case. and actually for the most part, those games that they've built infestors in they tend to lose.
Blahhh
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
April 14 2015 23:05 GMT
#3
Though, that does mean to something close to infestor broodlord nowadays with no swarm hosts...
Blahhh
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16024 Posts
April 14 2015 23:20 GMT
#4
The fact is that if we don't try to anticipate the meta (to some extends) we are just going to have some useless, none fun game to watch for months and I do not want that.

and if we do balance changes based on wrong anticipations we are also going to see useless, none fun game to watch for month.
you can't just buff one race because you think it is to weak without any statistics that support your claims.
If mech dominates gsl and proleague in the next few months then we can argue about making balance changes.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
zelevin
Profile Joined January 2012
United States307 Posts
April 14 2015 23:21 GMT
#5
If only there was a public test server or something like that where blizzard could actively test changes of the game... Oh wait, that did exist, it was just never used.
Riquiz
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands402 Posts
April 14 2015 23:22 GMT
#6
It's not a nerf, it's a design decision and zerg will figure it out eventually.
Caster man does casting on yt/RiquizCasts
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:26:12
April 14 2015 23:24 GMT
#7
On April 15 2015 08:00 Isarios wrote:
honestly, I just feel like fungal should be rebuffed slightly. not to WOL levels, but back from the pitiful level its at now. its so hard to use, i think you ahve to be confident in your ability to play excellently to use it. even pros only build a few just in case. and actually for the most part, those games that they've built infestors in they tend to lose.


Fungal growth needs their missile speed to be set to 15 again.

They nerfed it to 12 just in the end of HotS beta.


And Broodlords deserve the speed buff they have been needing for ages. All capital units move at 1.88 speed (slow speed standard) except it. That and move-shot micro (removal of damage point)
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
April 14 2015 23:28 GMT
#8
Ok but what to you think about the raven suggestion? They nerfed (or redesign if you prefer that term) sh because of "long boring games" but know mass terran air will replace it.
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:32:01
April 14 2015 23:31 GMT
#9
On April 15 2015 08:28 Skyblueone wrote:
Ok but what to you think about the raven suggestion? They nerfed (or redesign if you prefer that term) sh because of "long boring games" but know mass terran air will replace it.


About the raven? Supply cost incresed to 3. Mass raven 50% weaker by default. (all air casters cost 3 supply, even BW science vessel)
Banshee supply cost set to 2.

Potential buffs to the raven would be to adjust PDD and seeker missile and buff Raven move speed.
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
April 14 2015 23:33 GMT
#10
Please take balance suggestions to battle.net.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 595
IndyStarCraft 86
Vindicta 22
MindelVK 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4961
Shuttle 1603
Soma 798
Larva 704
EffOrt 648
Stork 598
Light 361
BeSt 319
ggaemo 319
Rush 173
[ Show more ]
Mini 143
NaDa 127
Sharp 107
Shine 79
JulyZerg 56
Aegong 55
Movie 55
Hyun 52
Nal_rA 48
910 26
GoRush 24
Sexy 22
Sacsri 10
HiyA 10
SilentControl 7
ivOry 5
Dota 2
Gorgc11187
singsing3121
qojqva1992
syndereN426
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m1795
byalli1540
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor440
Other Games
Grubby2617
Liquid`RaSZi2044
crisheroes453
B2W.Neo393
Hui .342
DeMusliM224
Harstem169
KnowMe161
ArmadaUGS94
XaKoH 67
Mew2King25
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2416
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1683
Other Games
EGCTV968
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 114
• StrangeGG 84
• naamasc217
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3413
League of Legends
• Jankos3072
• TFBlade1063
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
3h 21m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
IPSL
3h 21m
Dewalt vs Sziky
Replay Cast
16h 21m
Wardi Open
19h 21m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d
The PondCast
2 days
Big Brain Bouts
5 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.