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On December 04 2015 14:17 andrewlt wrote:
This past four days showed us why the Browns and Lions are the Browns and Lions. Seems like certain teams (Browns, Lions, Jets, Bills, etc.) are usually on the receiving end of these type of games while other teams (Ravens, Packers, Patriots, Steelers, etc.) are usually on the winning end.
Better lucky than good.- Steelers after all of their Super Bowls.
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On December 04 2015 15:11 Jibba wrote:It was an incorrect call but very easy to make in real time. You couldn't see fire, but you could see smoke. The Packers also held a billion times (the final play holding on Jason Jones was ridiculous, with 2 Packers holding him at once) but you never get those calls against the Packers/Rodgers. The Lions lost cause we're a shitty football team. No, Calvin wasn't in on the last play. We didn't even have anyone covering Richard Rogers. I'm pretty sure we had a timeout to get the correct package in and get assigned correctly, but we didn't. Because we're the Lions. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BZXVixA.jpg)
I saw this happen in the Pac-12 multiple times last year. The defense and most of the offense are so deep in the endzone that one offensive guy can easily catch a ball thrown closer to the goal line boundary. Even if he catches it on the one yard line, it's an easy waltz in.
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On December 04 2015 15:27 giftdgecko wrote:
Yeah there was 1 time out left for the lions, imo that's good enough reason to never be hired as a head coach again. There's not 1 but 2 LB's out there in coverage, 1 of which isn't even looking at the ball until the last second
On the plus side a thursday night game that wasn't total garbage to watch
Jim Caldwell has looked lost in the NFL as a hc. He needs to be a coordinator I think.
I agree with others that was the right call on the facemask at the time. Hit it, didn't hook but looked like it. You gota call that because it looked like that's how he got taken down.
I think if they were ever to go down the road of reviewable flags it should be for yes/no stuff like that, offsides, etc, not subjective stuff like PI, holding, etc
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On December 04 2015 14:14 asymptotech wrote:
Having a hard time linking the video from my phone...but you should have experienced the reaction in the stadium when they showed the replay of the "facemask"...quite the zebra job
What about the Lions job of blowing a 20 point lead? The call was incorrect, but at full speed extremely easy to mistake. Maybe they should have kept the Packers from scoring 20 points in the last twenty minutes of the game?
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8751 Posts
My attempt to understand the call: The facemask rule is really easy to invoke: "No player shall grasp and control, twist, turn, push, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction,”
Most people think of it as the "grasp and control" probably with some twisting going on, but it's illegal just to push it. Basically the only legal way for your hand to be on his facemask is to be traveling along with it, not altering its course at all, not applying force to it at all. Even in slow motion, you can see the sudden movement of Rodgers's helmet, which could only be caused by the hand of his opponent on the facemask, which means the penalty can be called.
Obviously refs can choose not to call something if it's minor. But I think in end-of-game situations, they start calling things differently. Last play hail mary will typically have enough contact among the receivers and defenders to call a penalty in any other situation but instead they just let them play and try to go up and get it unless it's a really blatant push off or hit at the wrong time. But oppositely I think the lateral play will cause the refs to be extra vigilant about some things.
I'm not sure what Florio is getting at with this article though: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/04/facemask-rule-as-written-wasnt-violated-by-lions/
It seems like he's got another interpretation of the rule, like "grasp and control" and "twist" and "turn" and "push" and "pull" aren't part of a list of things that are illegal, but rather the "grasp and control" part is a prerequisite before the other things. And his thing about the caveat for the rule doesn't make sense to me either. “If a player grasps an opponent’s facemask, he must immediately release it. If he does not immediately release it and controls his opponent, it is a foul.” That isn't saying that the only case where it is a foul is if you grasp and control it and don't immediately release it. It seems to me that the purpose of that section is to say that even if you grab a guy's facemask and fail to move it, you can't just hang on to it for as long as you want.
Accidental hand-to-facemask contact happens. If it moves the facemask significantly, for which the whole helmet moving is an obvious tell, then it's a penalty. If the hand doesn't move it, it isn't a penalty. However if the hand grasps the facemask and doesn't let go ASAP, even if it doesn't move the facemask at all, then that's also a penalty, because it's an ongoing threat and because it could actually be restricting motion of the head/neck which can be dangerous as well.
I don't know. Who knows. The officials are supposed to know but not everyone believes them and their explanations. I've become more of a general fan of the NFL, not really playing favorites with teams but just enjoying the games, and some of the penalties and no-calls have been pretty disruptive and baffling and unfun.
http://gfycat.com/NiftyOrdinaryBrownbear in slow motion it seems pretty obvious that his thumb is hooked into the facemask and pulls it, causing the helmet (and rodgers's head) to twist. in full speed, the sudden movement of the helmet is an obvious tell, and with nothing but the defender's hand there to have caused it, it's a facemask penalty
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^I think this case is directly related to the people who always say "I don't know what a catch is anymore". Because there are a bunch of things that don't look like real catches in real time: Bang-bang two feet down ball in hands defender hits WR and its out, but then on slow motion people are like "wow he had two feet down and control, TD!" What they don't realize is that if they had their way just about every "incompletion" over the middle would be a fumble. I counted 6 "new" fumbles in the last Patriots game.
The same thing here, on first glance, 100% a facemask. In slow motion, looks benign, but that was still probably the equivalent of throwing a 5 lb weight at Rodger's face judging by how much force it seemed to be. But things look different in slow motion so they trick people into thinking "that wasn't so bad" or "that was a catch" because your mind is being tricked by what you are being shown.
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so... after waking up and waiting forever to watch the game... FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!
now that that's out of the way.
no color rush this week? damn, was morbidly curious to see how hideous it could be.
What a catch by Megatron! Up 17-0 in the 1st quarter? NICE!
Both teams working with 3rd string O lines... ouch, but that's the NFL!
How do the Lions score 6 points over 3 quarters? Not going to win games with that...
That first Packers score.. A fumble that bounces perfectly for them into the endzone for them to fall on? I had a feeling at that moment the football gods were against us! (Or I've just been a Lions fan for too long...)
Face mask? I would make the same call on the field... The play before could have been called PI, the play after could have had holding calls... That happens. (At least this isn't like the batted ball call - speaking of which, at least now I don't have a chance of being bitter week 17 when they lose a tie-breaker to Seattle..........)
Worst D call of all time? Probably. I heard Caldwell say they (or he - not sure if it was his or TA's call) thought they were out of pass range and were more worried about laterals so they didn't put Calvin in the endzone. Obviously they were wrong about that.... Worse though, I don't remember the last time a team has scored off a lateral. JUST PUT EVERYONE ON THE GOAL LINE! ...AND WTF WERE THE DBs DOING??
/season. /rant. (I played some madden and knocked Rogers out of the game... that made me feel better)
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I'm not sure having reviewable penalties would make us happy either. I personally didn't agree with the call, but at least the call was honest (unless the official was just searching for something to call). If there had been a review, the official would have had to think about all of the "can you make that call on the last play of the game?" crap and that's all we'd be talking about today.
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The reason everyone QQs about reviews is because its so poorly done. Aside from challenges, which are a fine system midgame, there should just be a "review dictator" who is unrelated to the refs. If he sees something incorrect he just radio's down to the refs and says "You were wrong, XXX is correct" there is no discussion, no hood, no indisputable video evidence, just a faceless corrector. He should be the ref's adversary defending the public from seeing the truth while the refs bumble. This wouldn't extend games, because they spend more time explaining, talking, etc anyways. The video dictator is the solution.
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that rodgers hail mary was so dank
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On December 05 2015 06:43 cLutZ wrote:
The reason everyone QQs about reviews is because its so poorly done. Aside from challenges, which are a fine system midgame, there should just be a "review dictator" who is unrelated to the refs. If he sees something incorrect he just radio's down to the refs and says "You were wrong, XXX is correct" there is no discussion, no hood, no indisputable video evidence, just a faceless corrector. He should be the ref's adversary defending the public from seeing the truth while the refs bumble. This wouldn't extend games, because they spend more time explaining, talking, etc anyways. The video dictator is the solution.
Are you saying the officials should lie to the teams about the review/officiating process?
Also, this is a good time to point out that football has the lowest home field advantage of the major sports. Reffing usually affects games much less than in other sports. It's just glaring because there are fewer, more significant plays.
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On December 05 2015 09:56 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2015 06:43 cLutZ wrote:
The reason everyone QQs about reviews is because its so poorly done. Aside from challenges, which are a fine system midgame, there should just be a "review dictator" who is unrelated to the refs. If he sees something incorrect he just radio's down to the refs and says "You were wrong, XXX is correct" there is no discussion, no hood, no indisputable video evidence, just a faceless corrector. He should be the ref's adversary defending the public from seeing the truth while the refs bumble. This wouldn't extend games, because they spend more time explaining, talking, etc anyways. The video dictator is the solution. Are you saying the officials should lie to the teams about the review/officiating process? Also, this is a good time to point out that football has the lowest home field advantage of the major sports. Reffing usually affects games much less than in other sports. It's just glaring because there are fewer, more significant plays.
No they don't need to lie. They just have no stake in the review process. They ref the entire game as if review does not exist. But, in the stadium in some sort of TV room there is the review dictator. And if he ever disagrees with a call, he presses the red button, and the refs blow the whistle. Everyone stays in place for the 10-20 seconds it takes a competent person to decide (from my POV it never takes more than 2 viewings) then he radios that down. The refs then enforce his ruling and continue the game without question. As an added bonus if they are overruled they whip themselves with reeds.
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Then we're just bitching about what the dictator did/did not do/ did they even do it.
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True, but it is just the current system, with infinite review, but with eliminating the only logical complaint about infinite review (that the games will get too long and have too long of stops) because the dictator system actually would result in a faster review process than we currently have, and would eliminate stupid referee conferences.
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Odds are that faceless dude would just fuck it up too once in a while.
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United States97276 Posts
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United States97276 Posts
Thanks Jets for taking down the Giants. the redskins actually have legitimate playoff chances lol. Pretty good for a team that was picked to finish 31st or 32nd by a lot of sports websites in the preseason. yeah I know the nfc east sucks
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EPT
