On October 20 2014 17:04 OtherWorld wrote: I looked back at last year's BlizzCon, and at the seedings in particular, and it made me realize a few things : -There are the same number of regional representatives in 2013 and 2014 (6 from KR, 5 from AM and 5 from EU), but while last year KR players were in the top half of the rankings (5 of them being in the top8), this year they are clearly towards the bottom half (only one of them being in the top8). EU, Which had no players in the top8 last year, now has 3 ; AM had 3 last year and has 4 this year. -We had even less Zergs last year than this year (2 compared to 4), I forgot that was the case. -Since we're talking about race repartition, Terrans went from 8 to 6 and Protoss still has 6 players. -Surprisingly enough given the disparition of the Season Finals (but I guess Premier Events as well as regional WCS gave more points this year), both Bomber and HyuN (#1 and 2 seeds) have more points than Soulkey (#1 Seed) last year. The sum of all players' points is also slightly higher this year (73425, while it was 73125 last year). However, the last seeds - NaNiwa and Jaedong - have the same amount of points, 3200. -duckdeok was so close to taking out Maru and going all the way. Dammit duckdeok D: -INnoVation, Jaedong, Polt, MC, MMA, Bomber, TaeJa are the only players who went to BlizzCon last year and will this year. Also, Polt and MMA have the same seed as last year (#4 and #9). -Here's a fun bracket based on last year's results (based on the seeds) : + Show Spoiler +
Yeah but they're P that deserve it considering the year they had (well except SD maybe, but Zest and herO definitely deserve it)
I would say that Zest deserves the finals. hero... semis, at most.
But he's the best player in PL this year. And everyone complained how PL players had no chance of being represented at Blizzcon D:
As far as WCS, PL doesn't count. If we only include Premier events, he had 1 win and 2 runner-ups. For comparison, Bomber had 3 wins and 1 runner-up. That way, Bomber deserves it more (I was only looking at the top side of the bracket)
He knows PL doesn't count, he's saying that lots of people think PL should count, and if it did, herO would be legitimized more than any other player.
I don't know about that. I find it difficult to se how you could implement WCS point into PL. Maybe just have more individual tournamnets in Korea. herOs GSL run was pretty bad this year, and I know that PL could be the reason behind this. But, he did really well in the Kespa cup. I think that it would be better for players on Kespa teams to have more tournaments giving out WCS points in Korea, so they can compete. Or more GSL seasons. Three does seem like a pretty small number
I think that's an endless debate tbh. I mean the obvious solution would be more events in Korea, but these events won't come by themselves. And I believe WCS points for next PL has been confirmed already?
I think it's either that or increase the points of the GSL by a substantial margin
On October 20 2014 17:04 OtherWorld wrote: I looked back at last year's BlizzCon, and at the seedings in particular, and it made me realize a few things : -There are the same number of regional representatives in 2013 and 2014 (6 from KR, 5 from AM and 5 from EU), but while last year KR players were in the top half of the rankings (5 of them being in the top8), this year they are clearly towards the bottom half (only one of them being in the top8). EU, Which had no players in the top8 last year, now has 3 ; AM had 3 last year and has 4 this year. -We had even less Zergs last year than this year (2 compared to 4), I forgot that was the case. -Since we're talking about race repartition, Terrans went from 8 to 6 and Protoss still has 6 players. -Surprisingly enough given the disparition of the Season Finals (but I guess Premier Events as well as regional WCS gave more points this year), both Bomber and HyuN (#1 and 2 seeds) have more points than Soulkey (#1 Seed) last year. The sum of all players' points is also slightly higher this year (73425, while it was 73125 last year). However, the last seeds - NaNiwa and Jaedong - have the same amount of points, 3200. -duckdeok was so close to taking out Maru and going all the way. Dammit duckdeok D: -INnoVation, Jaedong, Polt, MC, MMA, Bomber, TaeJa are the only players who went to BlizzCon last year and will this year. Also, Polt and MMA have the same seed as last year (#4 and #9). -Here's a fun bracket based on last year's results (based on the seeds) : + Show Spoiler +
Yeah but they're P that deserve it considering the year they had (well except SD maybe, but Zest and herO definitely deserve it)
I would say that Zest deserves the finals. hero... semis, at most.
But he's the best player in PL this year. And everyone complained how PL players had no chance of being represented at Blizzcon D:
As far as WCS, PL doesn't count. If we only include Premier events, he had 1 win and 2 runner-ups. For comparison, Bomber had 3 wins and 1 runner-up. That way, Bomber deserves it more (I was only looking at the top side of the bracket)
He knows PL doesn't count, he's saying that lots of people think PL should count, and if it did, herO would be legitimized more than any other player.
I don't know about that. I find it difficult to se how you could implement WCS point into PL. Maybe just have more individual tournamnets in Korea. herOs GSL run was pretty bad this year, and I know that PL could be the reason behind this. But, he did really well in the Kespa cup. I think that it would be better for players on Kespa teams to have more tournaments giving out WCS points in Korea, so they can compete. Or more GSL seasons. Three does seem like a pretty small number
I think that's an endless debate tbh. I mean the obvious solution would be more events in Korea, but these events won't come by themselves. And I believe WCS points for next PL has been confirmed already?
I think it's either that or increase the points of the GSL by a substantial margin
I agree that points should be higher. By at least 50%
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
I fear Legacy could go the way of Starcraft ghost
And I think it won't be, because they have a separate panel for SC multiplayer
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I would guess we will have more details some time after BlizzCon, when they've gathered what opinion they feel that they need et cetera. Last year the info was released 20/11, about two weeks after BlizzCon.
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
Well we know that there will be a reset of all qualified players, which lead me to think that the season will start relatively early considering that they'll need a certain amount of time to do all the qualifiers
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
I fear Legacy could go the way of Starcraft ghost
And I think it won't be, because they have a separate panel for SC multiplayer
WHAT? I don't see any reason why they would cancel it (especially after just cancelling Titan). There were clear reasons for those (titan, ghost, wc adventures) to be cancelled but why would they cancel an expansion (especially when the story is still there for single player)?
On October 20 2014 17:04 OtherWorld wrote: I looked back at last year's BlizzCon, and at the seedings in particular, and it made me realize a few things : -There are the same number of regional representatives in 2013 and 2014 (6 from KR, 5 from AM and 5 from EU), but while last year KR players were in the top half of the rankings (5 of them being in the top8), this year they are clearly towards the bottom half (only one of them being in the top8). EU, Which had no players in the top8 last year, now has 3 ; AM had 3 last year and has 4 this year. -We had even less Zergs last year than this year (2 compared to 4), I forgot that was the case. -Since we're talking about race repartition, Terrans went from 8 to 6 and Protoss still has 6 players. -Surprisingly enough given the disparition of the Season Finals (but I guess Premier Events as well as regional WCS gave more points this year), both Bomber and HyuN (#1 and 2 seeds) have more points than Soulkey (#1 Seed) last year. The sum of all players' points is also slightly higher this year (73425, while it was 73125 last year). However, the last seeds - NaNiwa and Jaedong - have the same amount of points, 3200. -duckdeok was so close to taking out Maru and going all the way. Dammit duckdeok D: -INnoVation, Jaedong, Polt, MC, MMA, Bomber, TaeJa are the only players who went to BlizzCon last year and will this year. Also, Polt and MMA have the same seed as last year (#4 and #9). -Here's a fun bracket based on last year's results (based on the seeds) : + Show Spoiler +
Yeah but they're P that deserve it considering the year they had (well except SD maybe, but Zest and herO definitely deserve it)
I would say that Zest deserves the finals. hero... semis, at most.
But he's the best player in PL this year. And everyone complained how PL players had no chance of being represented at Blizzcon D:
As far as WCS, PL doesn't count. If we only include Premier events, he had 1 win and 2 runner-ups. For comparison, Bomber had 3 wins and 1 runner-up. That way, Bomber deserves it more (I was only looking at the top side of the bracket)
He knows PL doesn't count, he's saying that lots of people think PL should count, and if it did, herO would be legitimized more than any other player.
I don't know about that. I find it difficult to se how you could implement WCS point into PL. Maybe just have more individual tournamnets in Korea. herOs GSL run was pretty bad this year, and I know that PL could be the reason behind this. But, he did really well in the Kespa cup. I think that it would be better for players on Kespa teams to have more tournaments giving out WCS points in Korea, so they can compete. Or more GSL seasons. Three does seem like a pretty small number
I can't tell if you're still disagreeing with the idea of herO deserving to make it to the finals (I don't think he does, but OtherWorld's argument is interesting), or if you've moved on completely to WCS/PL. I agree that there need to be tons more KR events. Tons, tons more. Looking them up by Aligulac, Zest attended something like 7 Premier tournaments in 2014 and Polt attended 18. I might be off by one or two in either case, it's way too early in the AM to be doing math, but the point is the AM/EU globe-trotters have almost double the opportunities to rack up points that Koreans do. That's absurd. It's not Blizzard's fault that Kespa chooses to prioritize PL over WCS, but Blizzard isn't falling over themselves trying to rectify this mess, that's for sure. Blizzcon is supposed to be legitimate in a way that individual tournaments never can by rewarding consistency over the course of a year and devaluing flukey results. Obviously it's got a long fucking way to go if soO is in tenth place and Jjakji and MMA are both ahead of Innovation.
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
I fear Legacy could go the way of Starcraft ghost
And I think it won't be, because they have a separate panel for SC multiplayer
WHAT? I don't see any reason why they would cancel it (especially after just cancelling Titan). There were clear reasons for those (titan, ghost, wc adventures) to be cancelled but why would they cancel an expansion (especially when the story is still there for single player)?
Yeah, especially considering that there are plenty of people that buy SC2 for the campaign and not the MP, and that they will pay 60€ for it
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
Well we know that there will be a reset of all qualified players, which lead me to think that the season will start relatively early considering that they'll need a certain amount of time to do all the qualifiers
Still, I find early or mid November to be quite a late announcement, especially (and what you say makes lots of sense) if the new season starts early (which makes even more sense when you consider the #Dreampool, I don't think season 4 2014 will last very long). I mean a few players will have to move, change countries etc. In France for example, when you leave your place you have to give your landlord notice 3 months before leaving. If you give notice and leave like a month later, you still have to pay the remaining 2 months; leaving you to pay 2 rents (your new place and the old one)... So if forGG was to leave France and go back to Korea (I'm not saying he is, just taking his case as an example...), well, he wouldn't have much time to make arrangements... Idk, just feels late.
On October 20 2014 17:04 OtherWorld wrote: I looked back at last year's BlizzCon, and at the seedings in particular, and it made me realize a few things : -There are the same number of regional representatives in 2013 and 2014 (6 from KR, 5 from AM and 5 from EU), but while last year KR players were in the top half of the rankings (5 of them being in the top8), this year they are clearly towards the bottom half (only one of them being in the top8). EU, Which had no players in the top8 last year, now has 3 ; AM had 3 last year and has 4 this year. -We had even less Zergs last year than this year (2 compared to 4), I forgot that was the case. -Since we're talking about race repartition, Terrans went from 8 to 6 and Protoss still has 6 players. -Surprisingly enough given the disparition of the Season Finals (but I guess Premier Events as well as regional WCS gave more points this year), both Bomber and HyuN (#1 and 2 seeds) have more points than Soulkey (#1 Seed) last year. The sum of all players' points is also slightly higher this year (73425, while it was 73125 last year). However, the last seeds - NaNiwa and Jaedong - have the same amount of points, 3200. -duckdeok was so close to taking out Maru and going all the way. Dammit duckdeok D: -INnoVation, Jaedong, Polt, MC, MMA, Bomber, TaeJa are the only players who went to BlizzCon last year and will this year. Also, Polt and MMA have the same seed as last year (#4 and #9). -Here's a fun bracket based on last year's results (based on the seeds) : + Show Spoiler +
Yeah but they're P that deserve it considering the year they had (well except SD maybe, but Zest and herO definitely deserve it)
I would say that Zest deserves the finals. hero... semis, at most.
But he's the best player in PL this year. And everyone complained how PL players had no chance of being represented at Blizzcon D:
As far as WCS, PL doesn't count. If we only include Premier events, he had 1 win and 2 runner-ups. For comparison, Bomber had 3 wins and 1 runner-up. That way, Bomber deserves it more (I was only looking at the top side of the bracket)
He knows PL doesn't count, he's saying that lots of people think PL should count, and if it did, herO would be legitimized more than any other player.
I don't know about that. I find it difficult to se how you could implement WCS point into PL. Maybe just have more individual tournamnets in Korea. herOs GSL run was pretty bad this year, and I know that PL could be the reason behind this. But, he did really well in the Kespa cup. I think that it would be better for players on Kespa teams to have more tournaments giving out WCS points in Korea, so they can compete. Or more GSL seasons. Three does seem like a pretty small number
I can't tell if you're still disagreeing with the idea of herO deserving to make it to the finals (I don't think he does, but OtherWorld's argument is interesting), or if you've moved on completely to WCS/PL. I agree that there need to be tons more KR events. Tons, tons more. Looking them up by Aligulac, Zest attended something like 7 Premier tournaments in 2014 and Polt attended 18. I might be off by one or two in either case, it's way too early in the AM to be doing math, but the point is the AM/EU globe-trotters have almost double the opportunities to rack up points that Koreans do. That's absurd. It's not Blizzard's fault that Kespa chooses to prioritize PL over WCS, but Blizzard isn't falling over themselves trying to rectify this mess, that's for sure. Blizzcon is supposed to be legitimate in a way that individual tournaments never can by rewarding consistency over the course of a year and devaluing flukey results. Obviously it's got a long fucking way to go if soO is in tenth place and Jjakji and MMA are both ahead of Innovation.
We desperately need more tournaments in KR, but who is going to organize them and with which money?
On October 20 2014 17:42 Sakat wrote: How many pages were there in the LR thread last year before the games started? not counting Naniwa vs Revival
I believe it was around 560
On October 20 2014 17:43 LoneYoShi wrote:
On October 20 2014 17:32 Sakat wrote:
On October 20 2014 17:32 LoneYoShi wrote: Do we have a date for more details about the next season of WCS ? I suppose Blizz's gonna tell us through the "What's next panel" at Blizzcon ?
I hope that's LOTV news to be honest
I sure hope so as well, but it could "only" be their plans for the oncoming season of WCS of which we still don't know anything not much about...
Well we know that there will be a reset of all qualified players, which lead me to think that the season will start relatively early considering that they'll need a certain amount of time to do all the qualifiers
Still, I find early or mid November to be quite a late announcement, especially (and what you say makes lots of sense) if the new season starts early (which makes even more sense when you consider the #Dreampool, I don't think season 4 2014 will last very long). I mean a few players will have to move, change countries etc. In France for example, when you leave your place you have to give your landlord notice 3 months before leaving. If you give notice and leave like a month later, you still have to pay the remaining 2 months; leaving you to pay 2 rents (your new place and the old one)... So if forGG was to leave France and go back to Korea (I'm not saying he is, just taking his case as an example...), well, he wouldn't have much time to make arrangements... Idk, just feels late.
Yeah you're definitely right on that. I think they'll announce it just after BlizzCon though, they don't want the BlizzCon hype to be disturbed by next year's WCS
Doesn't ProLeague start up again relatively soon after BlizzCon? If so I really hope/expect a few things about the WCS changes at the "Whats New" Panel, but of course mostly LotV stuff.
On October 20 2014 18:07 Abradix1 wrote: Doesn't ProLeague start up again relatively soon after BlizzCon? If so I really hope/expect a few things about the WCS changes at the "Whats New" Panel, but of course mostly LotV stuff.
Last year ProLeague started in late december, iirc.
On October 20 2014 18:07 Abradix1 wrote: Doesn't ProLeague start up again relatively soon after BlizzCon? If so I really hope/expect a few things about the WCS changes at the "Whats New" Panel, but of course mostly LotV stuff.
Last year ProLeague started in late december, iirc.
You are right, announcement with details about proleague came in mid december with preseason round and Round 1 started few days before New Year's Day.
On October 20 2014 17:04 OtherWorld wrote: I looked back at last year's BlizzCon, and at the seedings in particular, and it made me realize a few things : -There are the same number of regional representatives in 2013 and 2014 (6 from KR, 5 from AM and 5 from EU), but while last year KR players were in the top half of the rankings (5 of them being in the top8), this year they are clearly towards the bottom half (only one of them being in the top8). EU, Which had no players in the top8 last year, now has 3 ; AM had 3 last year and has 4 this year. -We had even less Zergs last year than this year (2 compared to 4), I forgot that was the case. -Since we're talking about race repartition, Terrans went from 8 to 6 and Protoss still has 6 players. -Surprisingly enough given the disparition of the Season Finals (but I guess Premier Events as well as regional WCS gave more points this year), both Bomber and HyuN (#1 and 2 seeds) have more points than Soulkey (#1 Seed) last year. The sum of all players' points is also slightly higher this year (73425, while it was 73125 last year). However, the last seeds - NaNiwa and Jaedong - have the same amount of points, 3200. -duckdeok was so close to taking out Maru and going all the way. Dammit duckdeok D: -INnoVation, Jaedong, Polt, MC, MMA, Bomber, TaeJa are the only players who went to BlizzCon last year and will this year. Also, Polt and MMA have the same seed as last year (#4 and #9). -Here's a fun bracket based on last year's results (based on the seeds) : + Show Spoiler +
Yeah but they're P that deserve it considering the year they had (well except SD maybe, but Zest and herO definitely deserve it)
I would say that Zest deserves the finals. hero... semis, at most.
But he's the best player in PL this year. And everyone complained how PL players had no chance of being represented at Blizzcon D:
As far as WCS, PL doesn't count. If we only include Premier events, he had 1 win and 2 runner-ups. For comparison, Bomber had 3 wins and 1 runner-up. That way, Bomber deserves it more (I was only looking at the top side of the bracket)
He knows PL doesn't count, he's saying that lots of people think PL should count, and if it did, herO would be legitimized more than any other player.
I don't know about that. I find it difficult to se how you could implement WCS point into PL. Maybe just have more individual tournamnets in Korea. herOs GSL run was pretty bad this year, and I know that PL could be the reason behind this. But, he did really well in the Kespa cup. I think that it would be better for players on Kespa teams to have more tournaments giving out WCS points in Korea, so they can compete. Or more GSL seasons. Three does seem like a pretty small number
I can't tell if you're still disagreeing with the idea of herO deserving to make it to the finals (I don't think he does, but OtherWorld's argument is interesting), or if you've moved on completely to WCS/PL. I agree that there need to be tons more KR events. Tons, tons more. Looking them up by Aligulac, Zest attended something like 7 Premier tournaments in 2014 and Polt attended 18. I might be off by one or two in either case, it's way too early in the AM to be doing math, but the point is the AM/EU globe-trotters have almost double the opportunities to rack up points that Koreans do. That's absurd. It's not Blizzard's fault that Kespa chooses to prioritize PL over WCS, but Blizzard isn't falling over themselves trying to rectify this mess, that's for sure. Blizzcon is supposed to be legitimate in a way that individual tournaments never can by rewarding consistency over the course of a year and devaluing flukey results. Obviously it's got a long fucking way to go if soO is in tenth place and Jjakji and MMA are both ahead of Innovation.
We desperately need more tournaments in KR, but who is going to organize them and with which money?
It's not just about doing "more," it's about doing it "right" (in Kespa's eyes).
Let's open this up further. I think it's safe to say that the main interest for Korean organizers/Kespa in SC2 is not money, but brand recognition. They've got the strongest players, if they just wanted to rake in the cash, it would be in their best interests to send those players out more frequently to gather up those Western dollars. We've seen what happens when they do - sOs takes first and herO takes second. Far more often, we get situations like players under-preparing for their Code S groups because of Proleague considerations, or CJ Entus players infamously not bothering to qualify at all.
This is in stark contrast to the West. Here, there's no emphasis on teams at all and events like ATSC are basically grassroots efforts. It makes sense - SC doesn't naturally lend itself to being a team sport - but it's a pretty serious gap that must factor into the way Kespa perceive foreign events. If, for example, one DH or IEM per year did a 3-day team free-for-all instead of the standard individual league stuff, and there was a big hubbub about different teams, and the words "SKT T1" and "CJ Entus" were repeated fifty times an hour, I think that would cause Kespa to reevaluate their insular ways. Not that it'll ever happen.
The other thing is we just don't know what sort of talks Blizzard and Kespa have had behind closed doors. It's conceivable that Blizzard set a hard cap on how many WCS points KR can give out total. Blizzard has a vested interest in seeing a roughly equal split of players from each region at BlizzCon, probably even skewed towards AM/EU, so would they really allow for the possibility of Kespa making up five new tournaments tomorrow just because Azubu came into a couple of new millions? I don't mean to start any conspiracy theories, but if I were in Blizzard's shoes I'd definitely consider implementing a hard cap.
Is there not enough money in Korean SC2 to fuel more tournaments? I have no idea, I'd love to hear from people who do. Proleague is bigger than ever, so I doubt they're in financial straits.
EPT
(I was only looking at the top side of the bracket)
Bomber and 
HyuN (#1 and 2 seeds) have more points than 
NaNiwa and 
