• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:44
CEST 18:44
KST 01:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly do had match fixing CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 21345 users

Announcing: "The AreNA" KOTH

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
PrOmiseCAST
Profile Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-07 02:35:46
December 06 2013 09:03 GMT
#1


[image loading]


[image loading]


"The AreNA" is a weekly KOTH series designed to draw attention to playing on the North American ladder and create an exciting and motivating environment that makes the NA ladder more competitive and meaningful.

A quote I took from Totalbiscuit when he announced the first season of SHOUTcraft America. I could not agree more...

Totalbiscuit - American StarCraft has struggled to remain competitive and many prominent personalities within the scene have stated repeatedly that there is a need for real American competition; a division in which American players can compete against each other on a regular basis. This would not only assist in developing their skills on a more level playing field, but also expand their fanbase, potential prize winnings, and sponsorship appeal. If we have any hope to bridge the gap between regions, players in America require a healthy eSports ecosystem.


As we all might be aware, there has been a lack of "smaller" tournament and events that focus specifically on the North American scene/ladder. With the drop out of Playhem and other community run events, many of the top players in the NA scene have lost motivation and have become less dedicated to the game. For what reason? well..Koreans. They continue to increase the skill gap between themselves and foreigners (although there are a few exceptions), which is having some switch to other games, playing much less, or just flat out retiring. On the bright side, I have spoken to many of the top players in the North American scene about doing something like this and personally asked them if they would show interest in playing this type of a KOTH. I can gladly say, they agreed.

Let's talk Prize Pool..?


Firstly, when I thought about putting together "The AreNA", I immediately told myself that this has to be done 100% correct, and it has to be content that is attractive, engaging, and most importantly, consistent. This is obviously not a huge prize pool or anything that comes close to the "bigger" tournaments, but what I can guarantee is that this content is not going anywhere anytime soon. Although this is currently being funded from my own pocket, I hope as time goes on sponsors will find this beneficial for themselves and for the StarCraft 2 NA scene.

[image loading]

Best of 1's. Winner continues until they lose. This will be open to the Top 25 players on the North American [image loading] GM ladder.

*All players participating must play on their Top 25 GM account.*

The players will be chosen in no specific order. This means there is not going to be a list. (the reason for this is to diversify game play and matchups and also highlight player story lines.)

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading] PrOmiseCAST

WEEK #1: Monday December, 09, 2013

Time: 2:00PM PST / 5:00PM EST / 11:00PM CET

North American Server / Channel: "TheAreNA"

Games will be played LIVE and shown on stream FREE in 1080p quality.


[image loading]

*Prize pool subject to change based on sponsorship interest.*

$50.00 - for first person to get 5 wins in a row.

$10 - for dethrone (defeating someone who has 5+ wins)


[image loading]


[image loading]

Some of my casting experience includes casting LANHAMMER & EGSuppy's "Bay Area LAN - BATLL XI". I have also worked closely with CSN (Cyber Sports Network), IEM, MLG, Clarity Gaming, and the old Quantic Gaming. In late 2012, I was chosen as the Top 8 of the IGN/IPL Caster Search. Currently I'm partnered with Twitch.TV & SC2Links.com, a site aimed for providing up-to-date VODs for StarCraft 2.

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


[image loading]

[image loading] PrOmiseCAST
[image loading] PrOmiseCAST
[image loading] SC2PrOmise

[image loading] YoanM
[image loading] ToDsc2
[image loading] ToDStarCraft



Professional StarCraft 2 Commentator | twitch.tv/PrOmiseCAST / @PrOmiseCAST on Twitter.
BasetradeTV
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Canada1307 Posts
December 06 2013 09:40 GMT
#2
This is obviously not a huge prize pool or anything that comes close to the "bigger" tournaments


This is neat, but people aren't going to play if there isn't decent $ on the line, and even if there is (Breaking out) does not mean folks will necessarily care/tune in. I think, before this turns into a disappointing waste of time or money for you, you need to make sure you have players available and ready, not just hoping top 25 GM will flock to you. If you already have 5 -10 people set up, fantastic!

I know this post reads a bit negative, but it's meant to be constructive criticism.
Commentator
Eifer
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States138 Posts
December 06 2013 10:56 GMT
#3
GL gaining traction & enough of an incentive to get players to come out.
>Wait time in channel for a game + wait time for game + game time + potential time commitment of future games till you lose turns a couple hours into a shot at $10-50 with a >80% probability of $0 and instead of 15 practice games you get 1-4.
TemujinGK
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States483 Posts
December 06 2013 10:58 GMT
#4
eu player starting? gg.
"Pikachu and Protoss are both yellow, Coincidence?" ~apexMorroW
pXtRoy
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia51 Posts
December 06 2013 11:09 GMT
#5
Awesome idea but i think it needs a bit of work to be honest, Like eifer was saying.
Maybe decide who the 2 starting players will be and have 4-5 players scheduled in to play after, give them a time so they don't have to be sitting around. Would gain hype with people knowing who is coming up to play and will benefit the players more.
thundertoss
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1166 Posts
December 06 2013 13:40 GMT
#6
On December 06 2013 20:09 pXtRoy wrote:
Awesome idea but i think it needs a bit of work to be honest, Like eifer was saying.
Maybe decide who the 2 starting players will be and have 4-5 players scheduled in to play after, give them a time so they don't have to be sitting around. Would gain hype with people knowing who is coming up to play and will benefit the players more.



what a great format that would be. ^_^
Underneath David Kims banelings is another control group of banelings.
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
December 06 2013 14:03 GMT
#7
This could be really interesting if done correctly.
Luck makes talent look like genius.
MaydorK
Profile Joined September 2011
Venezuela23 Posts
December 06 2013 15:23 GMT
#8
Top 25GM for 50$ is too much... Sorry, but great iniciative!
Bonkarooni
Profile Joined October 2010
United States383 Posts
December 06 2013 15:37 GMT
#9
just run it for all GMS but prioritize top 25 when they show
feardragon
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States970 Posts
December 06 2013 17:36 GMT
#10
Awesome ! I'm excited to see where this is headed! Having ToD on is a great touch as well(I would consider taking him out of the spoiler as he will be a big appeal for people). Would to know about the format(map pool, best of x, etc.). Best of luck!
Ok Starcraft 2 Commentator
SirRobin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States269 Posts
December 06 2013 21:26 GMT
#11
If the top 25 GMs are the only ones competing, and you have to win 5 games in a row, then theoretically, the chance of winning $50 is: 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 3.125%. That's under the assumption that top 25 GM players go 50/50 vs each other, which is a fair assessment.

The average time to complete five games, including possible bathroom breaks, pauses, typical technical and loading times is approximately just under 2 hours. In order to get into the king of the hill, setup, etc will most likely take 30min - hour as a competitor. With 2 1/2 hours of time spent for a 3.125% chance of winning $50, it's hard to see players like QXC compete in this. These kind of competitions are just not worth a players time, and do we really want it to be? Are top 25 GM NA players really worth ($50*.03125)/2 hours = $0.78/ hr as the typical competitor? I'd be flat out insulted from this post if I were a top 25 GM.

The max frequency of the $10 pay-out is every 6 games, but with requiring a "dethrown" to award the pay-out, the frequency is much much less. It's a if Given A, then B... A ( $50) has to happen first, before B can happen. Then you also need to take into account the majority of players who won't even be lucky enough to be given the opportunity. The uncertainty of such a pay-out option is so high that as a player the value is near nill.



Although this is currently being funded from my own pocket, I hope as time goes on sponsors will find this beneficial for themselves and for the StarCraft 2 NA scene.


Maybe it's the word hope, or maybe it's this entire post, but I am livid when I hear shit like this. Not because of the out of pocket funding and the uncertainty that creates, but because your view on sponsorship. Sponsorships don't come to you, and they won't watch your shit show, even if it's made by Bill Gates. Create the show, begin grouping numbers, gather Twitch.tv demographics, present said numbers, what makes it worth investing in, etc. to a potential sponsor. The way you word this sentence shows such apathy that I assume it'll last two weeks, be a complete shit show, and you'll quietly walk out of the room.


Thundertoss did this same exact concept but with all GM players. It got around 100-200 viewers, and definitely helped create a better NA GM community. Many higher up GMs would compete because they would be more likely chosen, and have more like a .7*.7*.7*.7*.7 = 16.8% chance of winning. Many lower GMs would compete because 100-200 viewers were watching and no one knew who they hell they were.

And if the low-GM did have a massive upset 5-0 streak, the potential publicity is beyond the typical $50 prize winning. That is the main reason Thundertoss's show was successful. I can understand why you want it to be Top 25 GM's though. It's difficult to get more than 100 viewers when some no-name SirRobin asshat is playing vs some other asshat no-name. There's no tension between the players, no rivalrys to discuss, no predictions to predict. Nothing for the viewer to do but simply watch. As the creator of the AreNA, you want the games to be named vs named players, and for it to be competitive. Therefore, your needs warrant a Top 25 GM requirement. Sadly, your prize pool coupled with such a structure says the opposite.
https://twitter.com/SirRobinSC2
magicallypuzzled
Profile Joined June 2011
United States588 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-07 00:49:15
December 07 2013 00:44 GMT
#12
joy lots and lots of negativity just what i love to see when i see a new show-match/tournament/whatever thread. seriously guys there's plenty of time to be negative after this fails if it does there's absolutely nothing gained by being negative before hand. maybe he doesn't know how your suppose to get sponsors or maybe he does and just recognizes it's never a sure thing. maybe pros wont want to waste their time playing for just a chance at 50 dollars then again isn't that what they do every time they go to any tournament that is already full of Koreans? people like qxc catz puck numerous others tried for wcs with less incentive and harder competition sure they could theoretically gain more money but lets be honest everyone knew they weren't going make it (the fact that puck kind of did is both amazing and proof that counting people or tournaments out before they begin is stupid.). . they really wouldn't take 2-3 hours for a chance at 50 dollars really? i guess catz and petreaus don't regular give up that amount time to try for Saturday showdown that as often as not has some admittedly weak koreans they are Koreans none the less. i guess people didn't try for mlg's king of the hill with just a chance at 100 dollars and stronger competition there as well.


not to mention that the playheim tournaments were less money for a lot more time spent and tons of people including some of the top koreans of the time regularly played in them.
is depressed
Shew
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States460 Posts
December 07 2013 01:47 GMT
#13
Awesome event thanks for doing it!

I think top 25 is too little though, should be top 50 or top 100 considering there isn't even a ladder cutoff between 50 - 26 and 25 - 17.

Also looking @ GM right now, there are plenty of good players in the 100 - 26 rankings atm like SortOf, Crank, hellokitty, jonsnow, vibe, koma, snakehips, bails, etc
http://www.twitch.tv/shew_tv | @ClarityShew on Twitter~
magicallypuzzled
Profile Joined June 2011
United States588 Posts
December 07 2013 19:29 GMT
#14
i can't wait for this especially since i'll actually be able to watch it. its on my day off
is depressed
PrOmiseCAST
Profile Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-09 06:36:40
December 09 2013 06:31 GMT
#15
I realized even before posting this thread that there was going to be controversy about who gets to play in the KOTH. Top 25 GM or Top 50GM ? Pro's or Non-pros? Are players even going to show up only to win 50 dollars (assuming that they win 5 games in a row.)? These are sentiments that I agree with completely..

SirRobin, I know how sponsorships work and I have worked with sponsors in the past with these kinds of events.

Create the show, begin grouping numbers, gather Twitch.tv demographics, present said numbers, what makes it worth investing in, etc. to a potential sponsor.


Maybe I worded it incorrectly, but I am not planning nor wanting sponsors to jump on board the KOTH like this without seeing any high peak of numbers (viewers) or anything that provides them any benefit or incentive.


I have done this kind of KOTH in the past with the HotS BETA (getting advice and feedback from Thundertoss who is a friend of mine.) which allowed anyone in the Top 200 GM ladder to participate, which btw was a success in my books with consistent viewership (hence Clarity Gaming getting involved with the sponsorship providing the prize pool which was increased from $50.00 to $100.00.

I know that limiting it to the Top 25 might sound a bit crazy and its also easy to predict that players like Scarlett, Demuslim, etc might not even waste their time playing in something like this. But something everyone has to realize is that all the ladder they play is for their practice, not for any kind of prize winnings. The people I have spoke to (75-80% of them being in the Top 25 of the NA GM ladder) said that even though $50.00 isn't the best prize pool, it is much better than mindlessly grinding out ladder game after ladder game. Not to put people under the bus for anything, but some that I have spoken to include HuK, Illusion, Minigun, Sarovati, and a few others (players that are consistent with being in the Top 25 NA GM ladder). I know its crazy to think that $50.00 is such a "shit" amount of money that no one will play real competitive games for, but everyone has to realize that right now there is NO incentive for NA players to play ladder unless you are one of the lucky ones participating in WCS, or have a stable team to send you around the world to play in the bigger tournaments.


The format MIGHT change depending on the show of players for this first week. Obviously I am hoping that people in the Top 25 NA GM ladder show up and actually play these games. Even though I know a few of them (which I have met personally at events) doesn't mean they will let their friends know about this, maybe they will.. If the format was to be tweaked I would change it to players sitting in the Top 50 of the NA GM ladder.

This is a big wall of text and I'm not even sure if it all makes sense since I've been studying for finals the past 2-3 hours, but I hope that the community gives this a chance and tunes in. One thing I can guarantee is that I have always been good with production and that's something that will continue with this KOTH.

15 hours from this post (2:00pm pst, 5:00pm est) the games will begin, and I'm excited to see how this first week will pan out

P.S. - Axslav will get on board with The AreNA mid January as well (he currently has no mic and has to figure what he is going to do now that he is no longer involved with MLG.) He's been someone I always wanted to commentate with as I think we would work really well together. Let's get this started soon Nick!
Professional StarCraft 2 Commentator | twitch.tv/PrOmiseCAST / @PrOmiseCAST on Twitter.
intense555
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States474 Posts
December 09 2013 06:48 GMT
#16
It should be top 50 I think, then I would ladder my account back up to that so I could play in this, otherwise Im sticking to kr ladder.
Aspiring Starcraft 2 pro for @mYinsanityEU, follow me on twitter @mYintenseSC
LongShot27
Profile Joined May 2013
United States2084 Posts
December 09 2013 08:56 GMT
#17
Great idea, hope it goes well, i'll definetly watch, but you may want to expand to top 50 or 100 due to players time constraints
If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it.
ratty
Profile Joined July 2011
New Zealand275 Posts
December 09 2013 09:48 GMT
#18
great job man hope it all goes well, this is the kinda thing that keeps a scene alive and if someone doesn't want to play because the prize pool is to low that there problem there is money out there for NA players if they are willing to put in the work.
no. monkeys land on their feet, they're like masturbating cats ~ #~hyvaa~#~
Caliber
Profile Joined August 2010
United States598 Posts
December 09 2013 16:44 GMT
#19
Thanks for doing this, but I would recommend increasing it to top 50 or so. 25 just seems too small of a pool, especially if some of the players don't show up, are busy, uninterested, sick, etc

Will there be a map pool? or anything goes?
PrOmiseCAST
Profile Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
December 09 2013 21:48 GMT
#20
10 minutes left to go for this!

Players in Top 50 GM are welcome to play for tonight's stream. North American server, channel: "TheAreNA".

Professional StarCraft 2 Commentator | twitch.tv/PrOmiseCAST / @PrOmiseCAST on Twitter.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech118
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 8352
EffOrt 1629
Horang2 706
Stork 553
firebathero 174
Snow 161
Sharp 135
sas.Sziky 59
sSak 58
Pusan 52
[ Show more ]
Movie 51
Barracks 50
sorry 42
Hyun 33
Sacsri 30
Rock 27
Terrorterran 26
Backho 16
Dewaltoss 5
Dota 2
Gorgc7830
qojqva3969
syndereN526
Counter-Strike
fl0m5594
olofmeister859
rGuardiaN94
FunKaTv 86
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King71
Other Games
tarik_tv53922
gofns15875
summit1g3574
B2W.Neo1317
Beastyqt705
hiko686
Lowko358
Hui .254
ArmadaUGS181
KnowMe87
Trikslyr70
QueenE66
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream252
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 38
• poizon28 23
• OhrlRock 1
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Rasowy 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4494
League of Legends
• Nemesis2161
• TFBlade1249
Other Games
• Shiphtur270
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 16m
Replay Cast
17h 16m
WardiTV Invitational
18h 16m
WardiTV Invitational
18h 16m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 7h
GSL Code S
1d 16h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.