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On March 01 2014 06:05 radiatoren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 05:40 darkness wrote:
As much as I dislike Russia's foreign policy, EU-US vs Russia war may get very ugly. Hopefully no nuclear bombs this time. Unless USA wants a war, it is never going to happen. EU doesn't care enough about Ukraines national sovereignty to start a world war. No, the real bitch for Russia will be Putin getting sanctioned and hated across the world. Putin is a tyrant and a dictator, but he has never been reckless and stupid. Starting a real invasion of Ukraine is blatantly stupid. I think the US and EU foreign ministers know what they are doing when they are relatively cautious about warning Russia. Crimea is a deeply divided province and so far it hasn't spiraled out of control.
The real bitch will be if the Russian minority in Baltic countries that are already inside the EU and NATO get inspired by any change in Crimea...
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On March 01 2014 07:30 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 06:05 radiatoren wrote:On March 01 2014 05:40 darkness wrote:
As much as I dislike Russia's foreign policy, EU-US vs Russia war may get very ugly. Hopefully no nuclear bombs this time. Unless USA wants a war, it is never going to happen. EU doesn't care enough about Ukraines national sovereignty to start a world war. No, the real bitch for Russia will be Putin getting sanctioned and hated across the world. Putin is a tyrant and a dictator, but he has never been reckless and stupid. Starting a real invasion of Ukraine is blatantly stupid. I think the US and EU foreign ministers know what they are doing when they are relatively cautious about warning Russia. Crimea is a deeply divided province and so far it hasn't spiraled out of control. The real bitch will be if the Russian minority in Baltic countries that are already inside the EU and NATO get inspired by any change in Crimea...
Plus the knowledge for any future state wishing to distance itself from Russia that the EU will sit back when big daddy bear comes knocking.
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On March 01 2014 07:30 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 06:05 radiatoren wrote:On March 01 2014 05:40 darkness wrote:
As much as I dislike Russia's foreign policy, EU-US vs Russia war may get very ugly. Hopefully no nuclear bombs this time. Unless USA wants a war, it is never going to happen. EU doesn't care enough about Ukraines national sovereignty to start a world war. No, the real bitch for Russia will be Putin getting sanctioned and hated across the world. Putin is a tyrant and a dictator, but he has never been reckless and stupid. Starting a real invasion of Ukraine is blatantly stupid. I think the US and EU foreign ministers know what they are doing when they are relatively cautious about warning Russia. Crimea is a deeply divided province and so far it hasn't spiraled out of control. The real bitch will be if the Russian minority in Baltic countries that are already inside the EU and NATO get inspired by any change in Crimea...
Not only that, but a lot of ex soviet countries will be following these developments closely. Lessons being learned so far:
- Don't trust RU, US, UK to uphold international commitments,
- Nuclear non-proliferation is not a good idea.
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On March 01 2014 07:32 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 07:30 Sub40APM wrote:On March 01 2014 06:05 radiatoren wrote:On March 01 2014 05:40 darkness wrote:
As much as I dislike Russia's foreign policy, EU-US vs Russia war may get very ugly. Hopefully no nuclear bombs this time. Unless USA wants a war, it is never going to happen. EU doesn't care enough about Ukraines national sovereignty to start a world war. No, the real bitch for Russia will be Putin getting sanctioned and hated across the world. Putin is a tyrant and a dictator, but he has never been reckless and stupid. Starting a real invasion of Ukraine is blatantly stupid. I think the US and EU foreign ministers know what they are doing when they are relatively cautious about warning Russia. Crimea is a deeply divided province and so far it hasn't spiraled out of control. The real bitch will be if the Russian minority in Baltic countries that are already inside the EU and NATO get inspired by any change in Crimea... Not only that, but a lot of ex soviet countries will be following these developments closely. Lessons being learned so far: - Don't trust RU, US, UK to uphold international commitments, - Nuclear non-proliferation is not a good idea.
If Ukraine had kept its nuclear weapons after coming out of the Soviet Union they would have had the 3rd largest stockpile of nukes in the world. Ukraine having that many nukes is what nobody wanted, it costs a lot of money to be a nuclear power, money better spent on other things.
Of course any country that gives up their nuclear weapons means that in the end, they have very little say in anything.
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On March 01 2014 06:50 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 05:29 mijagi182 wrote:On March 01 2014 01:53 Makro wrote:
starting a nuclear war for ukraine (no offense) seems to be highly over exagerated, i don't think leaders (more, their advisor) are that stupid this is probably a resonable stance, but given your location it gets kind of familiar  ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Die_for_Danzig?well, we all know how it ended back then. throwing things randomly like this without taking the historical context is a cheap move from you
and i think throwing "nuclear war" at this point was... well, lets say premature. tbh i am more interested in where you put the line, when starting it would be ok. Like russians invading Paris or what?
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Nukes aren't all they're cracked up to be imho. At this point in time, the actual use of them would cause so much blowback, as well as risk, that their only value is if people choose to be afraid of them.
It's not clear to me that Ukraine's sovereignty has been actually violated at this point. Obvious Russia might, but it's not yet clear what they will do; and I'm sure there'll be some security council announcement about the matter.
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http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/latest-updates-tensions-in-ukraine/?hp
Bikers and Berkut and some guys who if they're local militia are some really well-equipped local militia.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/28/world/europe/ukraine-politics/
Ukraine accused Russian Black Sea forces of trying to seize two airports in Crimea but said Ukrainian security forces prevented them from taking control.
"This group is making a serious mistake challenging our territorial integrity," Ukraine's ambassador to the United Nations, Yuriy Sergeyev, told reporters following a meeting of the U.N. Security Council...
"We still have a chance to stop the negative developments and separatism," Sergeyev said. "I think we are strong enough to defend ourselves."
Who knows what is really going on over there other than lots of guys in uniform with AKs are running around.
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I don't believe the Crimean issue should be put into a separate thread, and cheerio does not have the authority to declare such.
It's a continuation of the same ongoing issue and should stay in the same thread.
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On March 01 2014 08:52 zlefin wrote:
I don't believe the Crimean issue should be put into a separate thread, and cheerio does not have the authority to declare such.
It's a continuation of the same ongoing issue and should stay in the same thread.
Agreed, everything that is happening in the Ukraine right now is solely the fault of EuroMaidan and the junta that came to power because of it.
edit: its not just Crimea, the whole eastern part of the country wants to protect itself from the black hole in Kiev. Just saying this is about Crimea would be a misrepresentation.
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On March 01 2014 08:54 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 08:52 zlefin wrote:
I don't believe the Crimean issue should be put into a separate thread, and cheerio does not have the authority to declare such.
It's a continuation of the same ongoing issue and should stay in the same thread. Agreed, everything that is happening in the Ukraine right now is solely the fault of EuroMaidan and the junta that came to power because of it.
There is no junta in power in the Ukraine.
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While i agree that it should stay in this thread, to say "everything that's happening in the ukraine right now is solely the fault of EuroMaidan" is incredibly shortsighted, to put it nicely.
How about "everything that's happening right now in the ukraine is solely the fault of janukowitsch and his corrupt regime", which then led to EuroMaidan?
If i punch you in the face and get smacked back, it's not solely your fault, is it now.
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On March 01 2014 09:02 m4ini wrote:
While i agree that it should stay in this thread, to say "everything that's happening in the ukraine right now is solely the fault of EuroMaidan" is incredibly shortsighted, to put it nicely.
How about "everything that's happening right now in the ukraine is solely the fault of janukowitsch and his corrupt regime", which then led to EuroMaidan?
If i punch you in the face and get smacked back, it's not solely your fault, is it now.
How about 'Everything that is happening now in Ukraine is solely the fault of the orange revolution which made the country so shitty to live in the people voted for Janukovych, a man equally as bad, but the former rulers were not done stealing money so they set up euromaiden'
As for the guy above jun·ta
a council or committee for political or governmental purposes; especially : a group of persons controlling a government especially after a revolutionary seizure of power.
I guess pushing through unwritten bills and laws without any debate by a non-elected government is democracy 101
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If you feel that is more accurate, sure. Better than blaming EuroMaidan solely for the almost-war that is at hand now, because it didn't start with them.
Also, in my book a junta has something to do with a gov led by generals n stuff, military. Maybe my definition is off.
edit: not to mention that "weren't done stealing" kinda goes in contrary to wanting to join the EU, since it's alot harder to do so as a member. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it's a lot harder than doing it in, say, russia or the eurasian union at some point (if ever).
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my thread got closed. Can somebody of the moderators help to have it reopened?
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Why do we need two unnecessary threads?
edit: such a short sentence and i still screw up -,-
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On March 01 2014 09:02 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 08:54 zeo wrote:On March 01 2014 08:52 zlefin wrote:
I don't believe the Crimean issue should be put into a separate thread, and cheerio does not have the authority to declare such.
It's a continuation of the same ongoing issue and should stay in the same thread. Agreed, everything that is happening in the Ukraine right now is solely the fault of EuroMaidan and the junta that came to power because of it. There is no junta in power in the Ukraine.
No no, zoe provided us with ample proof that Hitler's reanimated corpse is running everything in Kiev.
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I don't think you ever can point out a sole reason for any major development in a country's history, however convenient for pointing fingers at either side in the conflict. Surely Ukraine's political problems did not instantaneously come to be at any given point and the recent developments are a consequence of her problems stemming from even years before say the Orange revolution?
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Okay, so basicly if I wanna spent my summer holidays on a seashore, I'll have to go in Crim..Russia now? :D
Well, whatever, mentally I'm prepared for everything.
Which country will be ready to take as an "emergency emigrant" except Canada? Cause the reason - running from a war is pretty damn huge :|
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EPT
