|
|
On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace.
Its far more helpful than Russia pressing the Soviet Union button again. And it creates peace in the way that even Putin isn't stupid enough to try and invade a nato nation.
|
On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace.
Why? Putin has threatened the various Baltic states with large populations, he has informed Poland and Czech Republic he will nuke them if they let Americans build bases but yet the worst he has done so far is launch cyber attacks. Ukraine was stupid in (a) giving up its nuclear forces and (b) not joining NATO and now its being invaded
|
On March 04 2014 02:41 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. I don't think Crimea is the end-game here. Most everyone seems to be watching Eastern Ukraine. But who knows what will happen. Its the same idea. Whatever the new border will be of Ukraine, it will be asking to join NATO asap as this crisis is finished, even if lets say Russia takes all the land that voted for Yanukovich that still puts Sumy in Ukraine and that is more East than almost all of Belorus. Anyway, once again, if EU/US wanted to stop this: targeted sanctions against all members of United Russia in the West, their assets could be frozen, their children deported back to glorious mother Russia. Putin wants to pretend like its the Cold War, let the Russian elite live like its the cold war.
I'd rather assume that Putin's goal is to get to appoint the next president of Ukraine. I don't think they care about Crimea at all. As to the method.. who knows.
|
lol
Senator Andrei Klimov: "It's not our job to have bigger & bigger Russia. We are not bad Russian boys. We're normal European people."
|
|
|
All of this confusion in regards to the ultimatum is reminding me of Tomorrow Never Dies lol. It feels like someone is trying to prompt a first shot from behind the scenes.
|
Another nice one. Clearly moving your troops on foreign soil withour their approval isn't a military intervention, stupid propaganda!
|
On March 04 2014 02:43 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:41 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 02:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. I don't think Crimea is the end-game here. Most everyone seems to be watching Eastern Ukraine. But who knows what will happen. Its the same idea. Whatever the new border will be of Ukraine, it will be asking to join NATO asap as this crisis is finished, even if lets say Russia takes all the land that voted for Yanukovich that still puts Sumy in Ukraine and that is more East than almost all of Belorus. Anyway, once again, if EU/US wanted to stop this: targeted sanctions against all members of United Russia in the West, their assets could be frozen, their children deported back to glorious mother Russia. Putin wants to pretend like its the Cold War, let the Russian elite live like its the cold war. I'd rather assume that Putin's goal is to get to appoint the next president of Ukraine. I don't think they care about Crimea at all. As to the method.. who knows.
He has appointed Yanukovich twice, is his bet that three times is the charm? Unless there are actual Russian tanks in Kiev, its hard to see how in democratic elections any Russian-supported candidate is going to survive the acquisitions that he is the puppet of an actual invader of Ukraine.
|
Fucking timely as always:
Can't wait for Bildt to get the position.
|
On March 04 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace. Why? Putin has threatened the various Baltic states with large populations, he has informed Poland and Czech Republic he will nuke them if they let Americans build bases but yet the worst he has done so far is launch cyber attacks. Ukraine was stupid in (a) giving up its nuclear forces and (b) not joining NATO and now its being invaded
Russia also said that Finland is not allowed to join NATO
|
well as someone in this thread already laid out a very post modern explanation: if one side doesnt shoot then its not a war.
|
|
|
On March 04 2014 02:47 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace. Why? Putin has threatened the various Baltic states with large populations, he has informed Poland and Czech Republic he will nuke them if they let Americans build bases but yet the worst he has done so far is launch cyber attacks. Ukraine was stupid in (a) giving up its nuclear forces and (b) not joining NATO and now its being invaded Russia also said that Finland is not allowed to join NATO
Better revoke visas of ethnic Russians before some hooligans make them feel bad and Putin will feel the need to protect the Russian race from Finnish fascism by invading you too.
|
|
|
I'm just glad that the Polish are moving their forces from west to east when you consider the build up of troops and armor by the Russians at the Polish and Lithuanian borders. I hope Russia isn't dumb enough to invade Poland next.
|
On March 04 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace. Why? Putin has threatened the various Baltic states with large populations, he has informed Poland and Czech Republic he will nuke them if they let Americans build bases but yet the worst he has done so far is launch cyber attacks. Ukraine was stupid in (a) giving up its nuclear forces and (b) not joining NATO and now its being invaded
I'm not going to lie here, even if Ukraine had joined NATO, no one in Europe would help them militarily against Russia. It doesn't matter what is on a piece of a paper.
Do we all remember the Anglo-Polish military alliance? ... in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power. They have given the Polish Government an assurance to this effect.
We all know how that turned out. Britain did absolutely nothing to help Poland. Nothing.
All Britain and France are going to do (and currently are doing) is the same thing they did when Hitler took over Czechoslovakia. Nothing. They will suggest and attempt diplomacy because they don't have the will to go to war when necessary. But you can't reason with dictators who use military force to achieve their goals. It cannot be done. It will only embolden them.
So Europe has no credibility.
And it is really sad for Ukraine. I hope Obama is brave enough to lead America in.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Albert Einstein
|
...lead America to where exactly this time? Also FYI you just called the NATO pointless.
|
On March 04 2014 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace. Why? Putin has threatened the various Baltic states with large populations, he has informed Poland and Czech Republic he will nuke them if they let Americans build bases but yet the worst he has done so far is launch cyber attacks. Ukraine was stupid in (a) giving up its nuclear forces and (b) not joining NATO and now its being invaded I'm not going to lie here, even if Ukraine had joined NATO, no one in Europe would help them militarily against Russia. It doesn't matter what is on a piece of a paper.
The Russians have been threatening the Baltics for years now, for years but the most extreme thing they could do was launch hacking attacks. Its not just a piece of paper, its a NATO base with at least some American soldiers on them.
|
France's military (and I'd guess England's is basically the same) would be totally unable to intervene in Ukraine, don't be dilusional. We already couldn't deploy a big infrantry regiment in an ex-colony without americans...
|
On March 04 2014 02:56 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 02:38 Alzadar wrote:On March 04 2014 02:34 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 01:50 Liman wrote:On March 04 2014 01:20 TheFish7 wrote:
So what is Putin hoping to get out of this, annex Crimea, then everyone goes home, and we all have a good chuckle about it at the G8 in Sochi? I think this is Putin saying : This is still Russia's backyard and you are not allowed to take over power in ex soviet republics and put NATO bases there.Im still in charge here and you can go fuck yourselves. Risking sanctions,economic hardship and even war just tells how serious he is. Changing Crimea status is just a bonus,and it helps proving his point. This is something every great power would do.Just imagine what would happen if US enemy tried to take over a nearby country....oh wait Cuban missile crisis,there was almost ww3. What do you think is going to happen as soon as Russia finishes its invasion and annexation? The rest of Ukraine will apply to NATO status, and NATO bases get another 500 KM closer to Moscow. If nothing else, surely this whole crisis shows that Ukraine is far too unstable to join NATO? Personally I'm not sure the trend of having NATO gobble up ex-Warsaw states one by one is all that helpful for ensuring peace. Why? Putin has threatened the various Baltic states with large populations, he has informed Poland and Czech Republic he will nuke them if they let Americans build bases but yet the worst he has done so far is launch cyber attacks. Ukraine was stupid in (a) giving up its nuclear forces and (b) not joining NATO and now its being invaded I'm not going to lie here, even if Ukraine had joined NATO, no one in Europe would help them militarily against Russia. It doesn't matter what is on a piece of a paper. The Russians have been threatening the Baltics for years now, for years but the most extreme thing they could do was launch hacking attacks. Its not just a piece of paper, its a NATO base with at least some American soldiers on them.
Let me clarify what I meant when I said "no one in Europe".
I meant Europeans won't help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
