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On July 31 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:29 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 31 2013 04:24 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:21 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 04:18 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:15 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:03 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 03:55 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 03:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]
A fourth one?
Sure.
[quote]
The task itself is simple and does not change (navigating a maze). When put in a tournament format, the women performed similarly to when they were not in a tournament format, the men performed better in a tournament format.
In that study, the women were neither encouraged nor discouraged by the format of the activity. The men tried harder in the activity. When outside of a tournament setting, both the men and women performed equally. Hence, the only difference is that the men cared more than the women--that's it. Lmao, so it proves my original point that women are less likely inclined to perform in a competitive environment? They are unwilling to participate, and then they don't perform as well. Did you read the reports findings as to what caused that to happen or what happened in the same sex touranments? Because that part does not prove you correct. Clearly you don't read. In single-sex tournaments, women solve more mazes than in mixed tournaments. However, this difference is not signicant.
(The p-value of the two-sided Mann-Whitney U test is 0.1025. Using a one-sided test of course makes the results signicant at conventional levels.) Ah, I missed that part. I apologize for the error. I am still not seeing anything that proves anything though. The study only shows that women do not perform as well as men when completing mazes in a competitive event. But it does not point to any findings that show it is genetics or any predisposition to non-competitive events. The study specifically focuses on the idea of confidence in performing a specific task directly relates to someone performance. And it also states that women were not as confident as men in a competitive event. But is also referenced a previous study and the issues of attrition in science programs and this was caused by a lack of confidence in a male dominated field. The study doesn’t help your argument in any way and mostly hurts it. It only points out that fields that are male dominated seem to have a negative effect on women’s confidence in said field. It doesn’t provide any proof that women are naturally like this and strongly leans toward it being cause by culture and social issues. The whole point is that you asking for males to treat females better isn't going to do anything. It isn't all of a sudden going to get more females into the SC2 community. The fact of the matter is, females for whatever reason on a scientific basis shy away from mixed competitive environments. This is seen in schools, most fields of work that are male dominant, etc. So you and Thieving Magpie telling everyone to 'stop being young men' isn't going to do anything; the reality is that females for whatever reasons (whether it is biological/psychological/social) don't like mixed competitive environments. Period. LOL scientific basis. "I have a study that says people acted this way ergo women genetics bio truths logic". the for what ever reason is not a mystery. its cause we actively reinforce these ideals in every society globally. Give me a study that reinforces what you're saying. My only point is that trying to actively 'fix' the SC2 community isn't going to do anything. It isn't going to change the fact that females shy away from competitive environments (and SC2 is a highly cut throat competitive environment). That's how civil rights, workers rights, voting rights, etc... has always been done. A majority rules, the minority suffers, a few rabble rousers "whine" about the situation for X amount of time until change becomes forced to happen. And why is it so bad to ask the community to treat women better? Even if it doesn't make them play SC2, how exactly are you against treating women better than they are being treated now? Will you only treat them better if they go online and play with you? Like requirements do people have to fit before you start treating them better? As someone who has been doing it for a while, being nice to women is generally how you get them to hang out with you. Normally, the more amusing and nicer you are, while avoiding the creep factors, the more they enjoy being around you. Not being sexist and avoiding commenting on other women's "tits" and physical features is a core tenent in this process and the key to success.
being nice and not creepy is too much to ask!
didn't you know as an adolescent male I'm programmed genetically to hunt bison and objectify women waaaaaa!!!!
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On July 31 2013 04:35 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:29 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 31 2013 04:24 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:21 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 04:18 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:15 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:03 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 03:55 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
Lmao, so it proves my original point that women are less likely inclined to perform in a competitive environment? They are unwilling to participate, and then they don't perform as well. Did you read the reports findings as to what caused that to happen or what happened in the same sex touranments? Because that part does not prove you correct. Clearly you don't read. In single-sex tournaments, women solve more mazes than in mixed tournaments. However, this difference is not signicant.
(The p-value of the two-sided Mann-Whitney U test is 0.1025. Using a one-sided test of course makes the results signicant at conventional levels.) Ah, I missed that part. I apologize for the error. I am still not seeing anything that proves anything though. The study only shows that women do not perform as well as men when completing mazes in a competitive event. But it does not point to any findings that show it is genetics or any predisposition to non-competitive events. The study specifically focuses on the idea of confidence in performing a specific task directly relates to someone performance. And it also states that women were not as confident as men in a competitive event. But is also referenced a previous study and the issues of attrition in science programs and this was caused by a lack of confidence in a male dominated field. The study doesn’t help your argument in any way and mostly hurts it. It only points out that fields that are male dominated seem to have a negative effect on women’s confidence in said field. It doesn’t provide any proof that women are naturally like this and strongly leans toward it being cause by culture and social issues. The whole point is that you asking for males to treat females better isn't going to do anything. It isn't all of a sudden going to get more females into the SC2 community. The fact of the matter is, females for whatever reason on a scientific basis shy away from mixed competitive environments. This is seen in schools, most fields of work that are male dominant, etc. So you and Thieving Magpie telling everyone to 'stop being young men' isn't going to do anything; the reality is that females for whatever reasons (whether it is biological/psychological/social) don't like mixed competitive environments. Period. LOL scientific basis. "I have a study that says people acted this way ergo women genetics bio truths logic". the for what ever reason is not a mystery. its cause we actively reinforce these ideals in every society globally. Give me a study that reinforces what you're saying. My only point is that trying to actively 'fix' the SC2 community isn't going to do anything. It isn't going to change the fact that females shy away from competitive environments (and SC2 is a highly cut throat competitive environment). That's how civil rights, workers rights, voting rights, etc... has always been done. A majority rules, the minority suffers, a few rabble rousers "whine" about the situation for X amount of time until change becomes forced to happen. And why is it so bad to ask the community to treat women better? Even if it doesn't make them play SC2, how exactly are you against treating women better than they are being treated now? Will you only treat them better if they go online and play with you? Like requirements do people have to fit before you start treating them better? As someone who has been doing it for a while, being nice to women is generally how you get them to hang out with you. Normally, the more amusing and nicer you are, while avoiding the creep factors, the more they enjoy being around you. Not being sexist and avoiding commenting on other women's "tits" and physical features is a core tenent in this process and the key to success. I have a friend who is a total asshole to women, calls them stupid, farts on them (I'm not lying), disrespects them, and comes home with a 10 every night.
He wasn't talking about fucking them, he was talking about hanging out with them. To share conversation, interests, and to treat them like a human being.
If you hang in a bar till closing you will always come back with someone. Getting someone to fuck you is easy enough if you simply go to places where women are also looking for men to fuck.
Planxis is talking about creating a community where men and women get to be non-gendered and chat with each other about like passions without it being about getting your dick in her pussy.
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On July 31 2013 04:35 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:29 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 31 2013 04:24 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:21 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 04:18 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:15 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:03 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 03:55 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
Lmao, so it proves my original point that women are less likely inclined to perform in a competitive environment? They are unwilling to participate, and then they don't perform as well. Did you read the reports findings as to what caused that to happen or what happened in the same sex touranments? Because that part does not prove you correct. Clearly you don't read. In single-sex tournaments, women solve more mazes than in mixed tournaments. However, this difference is not signicant.
(The p-value of the two-sided Mann-Whitney U test is 0.1025. Using a one-sided test of course makes the results signicant at conventional levels.) Ah, I missed that part. I apologize for the error. I am still not seeing anything that proves anything though. The study only shows that women do not perform as well as men when completing mazes in a competitive event. But it does not point to any findings that show it is genetics or any predisposition to non-competitive events. The study specifically focuses on the idea of confidence in performing a specific task directly relates to someone performance. And it also states that women were not as confident as men in a competitive event. But is also referenced a previous study and the issues of attrition in science programs and this was caused by a lack of confidence in a male dominated field. The study doesn’t help your argument in any way and mostly hurts it. It only points out that fields that are male dominated seem to have a negative effect on women’s confidence in said field. It doesn’t provide any proof that women are naturally like this and strongly leans toward it being cause by culture and social issues. The whole point is that you asking for males to treat females better isn't going to do anything. It isn't all of a sudden going to get more females into the SC2 community. The fact of the matter is, females for whatever reason on a scientific basis shy away from mixed competitive environments. This is seen in schools, most fields of work that are male dominant, etc. So you and Thieving Magpie telling everyone to 'stop being young men' isn't going to do anything; the reality is that females for whatever reasons (whether it is biological/psychological/social) don't like mixed competitive environments. Period. LOL scientific basis. "I have a study that says people acted this way ergo women genetics bio truths logic". the for what ever reason is not a mystery. its cause we actively reinforce these ideals in every society globally. Give me a study that reinforces what you're saying. My only point is that trying to actively 'fix' the SC2 community isn't going to do anything. It isn't going to change the fact that females shy away from competitive environments (and SC2 is a highly cut throat competitive environment). That's how civil rights, workers rights, voting rights, etc... has always been done. A majority rules, the minority suffers, a few rabble rousers "whine" about the situation for X amount of time until change becomes forced to happen. And why is it so bad to ask the community to treat women better? Even if it doesn't make them play SC2, how exactly are you against treating women better than they are being treated now? Will you only treat them better if they go online and play with you? Like requirements do people have to fit before you start treating them better? As someone who has been doing it for a while, being nice to women is generally how you get them to hang out with you. Normally, the more amusing and nicer you are, while avoiding the creep factors, the more they enjoy being around you. Not being sexist and avoiding commenting on other women's "tits" and physical features is a core tenent in this process and the key to success. I have a friend who is a total asshole to women, calls them stupid, farts on them (I'm not lying), disrespects them, and comes home with a 10 every night.
I know people like that too, but I don't call them friends or talk to them if I can avoid it. I will pass no judgment on the women he is bringing home, except that they can likely do better and its sad that they don't feel that way.
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a lot of popular male casters dont even know what they are talking about half the time, female casters who barely play the game would be even worse.
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On July 31 2013 04:43 aintz wrote:
a lot of popular male casters dont even know what they are talking about half the time, female casters who barely play the game would be even worse.
you're accurate but irrelevant.
because you are talking about doing something no one has suggested.
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On July 31 2013 04:29 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:24 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:21 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 04:18 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:15 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:03 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 04:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 03:55 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 03:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 31 2013 03:42 superstartran wrote:[quote] You clearly read the top lines of the studies and that's it. http://www.stanford.edu/~niederle/Gender.pdfMen perform signicantly higher in mixed tournaments than under both noncompetitive incentive schemes, the piece rate and
the random pay. The p-value of the two-sided Mann-Whitney U test that compares performance of men in mixed tournaments with the piece rate is 0.001, while for the comparison to the random pay treatment it is 0.006. In a mixed tournament situation, men perform significantly higher than the women did. That's exactly the same situation that you have in the caster/pro gamer/etc. world. Men and women in the same setting, competing against each other for tournament winnings, job positions, etc. Every single study will tell you that men perform significantly higher when there is an incentive to perform. Women generally do not, especially in a mixed gender situation. A fourth one? Sure.
In the benchmark treatment, the pay- off to participants depends only on their own performance: each one
is paid a xed piece rate for every maze solved over a period of fteen minutes. We nd no statistically signicant gender difference in performance.
The task itself is simple and does not change (navigating a maze). When put in a tournament format, the women performed similarly to when they were not in a tournament format, the men performed better in a tournament format. In that study, the women were neither encouraged nor discouraged by the format of the activity. The men tried harder in the activity. When outside of a tournament setting, both the men and women performed equally. Hence, the only difference is that the men cared more than the women--that's it. Lmao, so it proves my original point that women are less likely inclined to perform in a competitive environment? They are unwilling to participate, and then they don't perform as well. Did you read the reports findings as to what caused that to happen or what happened in the same sex touranments? Because that part does not prove you correct. Clearly you don't read. In single-sex tournaments, women solve more mazes than in mixed tournaments. However, this difference is not signicant.
(The p-value of the two-sided Mann-Whitney U test is 0.1025. Using a one-sided test of course makes the results signicant at conventional levels.) Ah, I missed that part. I apologize for the error. I am still not seeing anything that proves anything though. The study only shows that women do not perform as well as men when completing mazes in a competitive event. But it does not point to any findings that show it is genetics or any predisposition to non-competitive events. The study specifically focuses on the idea of confidence in performing a specific task directly relates to someone performance. And it also states that women were not as confident as men in a competitive event. But is also referenced a previous study and the issues of attrition in science programs and this was caused by a lack of confidence in a male dominated field. The study doesn’t help your argument in any way and mostly hurts it. It only points out that fields that are male dominated seem to have a negative effect on women’s confidence in said field. It doesn’t provide any proof that women are naturally like this and strongly leans toward it being cause by culture and social issues. The whole point is that you asking for males to treat females better isn't going to do anything. It isn't all of a sudden going to get more females into the SC2 community. The fact of the matter is, females for whatever reason on a scientific basis shy away from mixed competitive environments. This is seen in schools, most fields of work that are male dominant, etc. So you and Thieving Magpie telling everyone to 'stop being young men' isn't going to do anything; the reality is that females for whatever reasons (whether it is biological/psychological/social) don't like mixed competitive environments. Period. LOL scientific basis. "I have a study that says people acted this way ergo women genetics bio truths logic". the for what ever reason is not a mystery. its cause we actively reinforce these ideals in every society globally. Give me a study that reinforces what you're saying. My only point is that trying to actively 'fix' the SC2 community isn't going to do anything. It isn't going to change the fact that females shy away from competitive environments (and SC2 is a highly cut throat competitive environment). That's how civil rights, workers rights, voting rights, etc... has always been done. A majority rules, the minority suffers, a few rabble rousers "whine" about the situation for X amount of time until change becomes forced to happen. And why is it so bad to ask the community to treat women better? Even if it doesn't make them play SC2, how exactly are you against treating women better than they are being treated now? Will you only treat them better if they go online and play with you? Like requirements do people have to fit before you start treating them better?
Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'.
Good example is Ricky Ortiz and the FGC, as well as various other 'standout' players. There are plenty of 'non-standard' gamers in the FGC, and yet no one gives them shit about it. Why? Because they don't make a big deal about it. And believe me, when Ricky Ortiz initially got into the FG scene, he was called all sorts of drivel and nonsense. That stopped pretty quickly though, because people realized that it didn't matter about who he was, he could beat the best of the best in most FGs.
Initially yes, women are going to have a rough road starting out. It's inevitable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Is it unfair that women get more attention just because they are women? I guess. Remember, it goes both ways. Sure, women get increased negative attention, but they also get more positive attention too. When you standout, you are subject to increased criticism or praise. That's just how popularity works. Welcome to the real world.
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Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'.
So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them 
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On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them
Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender.
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Why is this thread still alive?
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On July 31 2013 01:47 Opera wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 01:38 shmget wrote:
Also, boys/girls bands are incredibly sexists.
yes they are indeed... but that is not to say that they are evil and should be banned from the world. There are _plenty_ of entertainment form that I find anywhere from disgusting to indifferent... but to each its own. thankfully no one forced me to go to a Patrick Bruel concert, or to a Spice Grils one either for that mattter :-). Yes it is. At least in the form they always existed. If there was a band which was incredibly racist or antisemitic there would be pitchforks everywhere and they would be banned form performing anywhere (just look at what happened with Dieudonné). I know it's hard to proceed because of the world we live in, especially as a male, but sexism is as bad as racism. Sexism is not just sexual harassment or kitchen jokes, just as racism is not just KKK or nazism.
Then you should be banned with a pitchfork too, because you just made a sexist comment ( 'especially as a male' )
I know it is hard to proceed because of the world we live in, but sexism, like racism is not a one way street. it bite both ways.
so be _very_ careful before deciding that it is OK to ban speech or activities on the ground that it offend _you_, because if _that_ is the bar then your own speeches and activity will be subject to the same... and anything you say or do is bound to offend someone, somewhere....
I do find boys/girls band 'sexist' but I am not in one, and I do not go to their concert... what other consenting adult choose to do on their free time is not mine to moralize.
Btw, you can ban all the Dieudonne of the planet from performing... but that does not does anything wrt to racism.
And as I said that cut both ways : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/FranSSe (just a random example picked-up out of a quick google search)
Should the Calendrier Aubade be banned as 'porn' ? (yep, in the US, the content of it is described, by the same people that are crusading for PC everywhere, as 'porn'. look-up 'CouchDB talk 2009)
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On July 28 2013 18:59 Gnusnu wrote:
There just aren't that many. I don't see the big deal about it.
kellyMILKIES casted the GSL briefly in 2011.
broo frame herrions everywhere.
to be fair that was the metagame and TvT was everywhere.
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On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender.
No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender.
You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple.
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On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple.
lol scarlett gets the most hate
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On July 31 2013 05:09 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. lol scarlett gets the most hate
We just dont' see it on TL because the mods slap that shit down hard and people report it instantly. But it is out there, reddit has some choice stuff hidden in the down votes.
On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple.
Damn it I just read this. So your ok with females being part of the scene, as long as they don't talk about sexism, even if it exists(to be clear, I am not saying it does or doesn't)? The key is not to make a big deal about it, because that would cause a shit storm.
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On July 31 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:09 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. lol scarlett gets the most hate We just dont' see it on TL because the mods slap that shit down hard and people report it instantly. But it is out there, reddit has some choice stuff hidden in the down votes. Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. Damn it I just read this. So your ok with females being part of the scene, as long as they don't talk about sexism, even if it exists(to be clear, I am not saying it does or doesn't)? The key is not to make a big deal about it, because that would cause a shit storm.
So you basically proved my point that the whole community isn't out to get female players. In fact, you just proved that the SC2 community in general actually frowns down upon insults towards females. Why else would they downvote such comments?
Two, if they are causing a shitstorm just because of a few select trolls who are going to troll them regardless of race, gender, fat/skinny, ugly, pretty, etc., then yes, I do have a problem with that. If there was an issue where a vast majority of the community was out to get them, sure, I'd have an issue. But we all know that's not true.
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On July 31 2013 04:15 Plansix wrote:
But is also referenced a previous study and the issues of attrition in science programs and this was caused by a lack of confidence in a male dominated field.
you do not get to make stuff up. nowhere does it says that the lack of confidence has anything to do with the so-called 'male dominated field'
In fact it reverse the causality, since it is said that the lact of confidence is the cause of the attrition rate hence 'causing' the filed to be so-called 'male-dominated' (a purposeful play on the double sens of the word, it seems to me)
Or what this guy said. They don't compete because they are told not to.
Again, to dispel that 'blank slate' argument:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0tg8_hjernevask-brainwashing-english-part-1-the-gender-equality-paradox_news
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On July 31 2013 05:32 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 05:09 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. lol scarlett gets the most hate We just dont' see it on TL because the mods slap that shit down hard and people report it instantly. But it is out there, reddit has some choice stuff hidden in the down votes. On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. Damn it I just read this. So your ok with females being part of the scene, as long as they don't talk about sexism, even if it exists(to be clear, I am not saying it does or doesn't)? The key is not to make a big deal about it, because that would cause a shit storm. So you basically proved my point that the whole community isn't out to get female players. In fact, you just proved that the SC2 community in general actually frowns down upon insults towards females. Why else would they downvote such comments? Two, if they are causing a shitstorm just because of a few select trolls who are going to troll them regardless of race, gender, fat/skinny, ugly, pretty, etc., then yes, I do have a problem with that. If there was an issue where a vast majority of the community was out to get them, sure, I'd have an issue. But we all know that's not true.
what units are you measuring sexism in to determine when it is too much?
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On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple.
startran, if this was the thesis driving you the whole time, you need to reexamine why you're arguing about social justice issues. (In this context that label is a bit vaunted but it's the umbrella term I'm gonna use.)
@nazca, Thanks for the insight. Do you have a link to your shows? I don't know my way around the millenium site and my french is bad. =\
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On July 31 2013 05:37 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 05:32 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 05:09 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. lol scarlett gets the most hate We just dont' see it on TL because the mods slap that shit down hard and people report it instantly. But it is out there, reddit has some choice stuff hidden in the down votes. On July 31 2013 05:04 superstartran wrote:On July 31 2013 05:00 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Because it's a non-factor. Women will be treated properly if they simply make their gender a non-factor. It's when you start bitching and crying about how people are saying nice tits/slut/etc. that it becomes a big deal, and the shitstorm begins. Other streamers that have other 'stand out' factors regularly get insulted/hate mail all the time. Women just so happen to be a nice big target for trolls because there's a significant population, though not quite enough of them to make them 'common/bland/oh i've seen that already'. So here's the solution. Women start casting and streaming in Nixon masks and then we will stop being assholes to them Clearly if they don't bring up their gender or make us aware they are a girl, then the issue will go away. And they should stop complaining about people talking about their bodies in mean ways, because that only fuels the problem. Sure, I mean, we could blame the people making the comments and I would get in a fist fight with anyone who said that to my sister in person, but why do that? Its easier to put the burden on the woman, because she is the one causing it with her gender. No; the point is that those who troll the shit out of other females troll other people for various reasons. They are going to be jackasses to be jackasses, and there's no point in making a big deal out of it, because it just makes for a gigantic shitstorm for an essentially non-existent problem for most of the community that treats each other with a decent level of respect. If you're trying to be a professional gamer, then prove to me you are worthy of my time watching you. If you're good at what you do, I could give two rats ass about your gender. You ever wonder why someone like Scarlett gets so little hate compared to other female personalities? Want to know why? Because Scarlett is good at what she does, and as such, no one really gives a flying fuck if she's a female or not. When you start making your 'standout' feature an issue, it becomes one. If you don't make it an issue, it doesn't become one. It's that simple. Damn it I just read this. So your ok with females being part of the scene, as long as they don't talk about sexism, even if it exists(to be clear, I am not saying it does or doesn't)? The key is not to make a big deal about it, because that would cause a shit storm. So you basically proved my point that the whole community isn't out to get female players. In fact, you just proved that the SC2 community in general actually frowns down upon insults towards females. Why else would they downvote such comments? Two, if they are causing a shitstorm just because of a few select trolls who are going to troll them regardless of race, gender, fat/skinny, ugly, pretty, etc., then yes, I do have a problem with that. If there was an issue where a vast majority of the community was out to get them, sure, I'd have an issue. But we all know that's not true. what units are you measuring sexism in to determine when it is too much?
Just replace that with "How much Racism is enough to get upset about" and you will have your answer.
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On July 31 2013 05:36 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 04:15 Plansix wrote:
But is also referenced a previous study and the issues of attrition in science programs and this was caused by a lack of confidence in a male dominated field.
you do not get to make stuff up. nowhere does it says that the lack of confidence has anything to do with the so-called 'male dominated field' In fact it reverse the causality, since it is said that the lact of confidence is the cause of the attrition rate hence 'causing' the filed to be so-called 'male-dominated' (a purposeful play on the double sens of the word, it seems to me) Again, to dispel that 'blank slate' argument: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0tg8_hjernevask-brainwashing-english-part-1-the-gender-equality-paradox_news
I quote directly from the study for those to lazy to read it:
While the reasons for the attrition rate of women in science
and engineering remain unclear, there exists mounting evidence
that the women’s low feelings of condence and competence play
a key role. A recent report titled “Women’s Experiences in College
Engineering” [Goodman, Cunningham, and Lachapelle 2002]
shows that women are not dropping out of engineering programs
because of poor performance. Many women who left mentioned
negative aspects of their school’s climate such as competition,
lack of support, and discouraging faculty and peers. Positive
perceptions of self-condence were highly associated with staying
in the program, and increased with the existence of mentor programs,
opportunities for networking with practicing female engineers
and clubs like the society for Women Engineers. In general,
condence in one’s abilities and optimism have been shown to be
strongly related to academic performance [Chemers, Hu, and
Garcia 2001]. Furthermore, in male-dominated graduate programs,
female students show lower feelings of competence than
male students show [Ulku-Steiner, Kurtz-Costes, and Kinlaw
2000].
I cited this section a page ago and in the post you quoted.
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EPT
