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shmget
118 Posts
On July 29 2013 10:20 bigbadgreen wrote: Edit: Just dug up a quick 2012 list.[..] anna K isn't even on the list. anything else you'd like to discuss? John McEnroe, Stephi Graf, Ivan Lendel and Martina Hingis are not on the 2012 list either... what's your point ? | ||
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shmget
118 Posts
On July 29 2013 11:10 bigbadgreen wrote: His endorsements are not skill based. He has his dad's name and for a long time was single and a heart throb marketed towards the female audience of NASCAR. Good, so your are establishing the point that the behavior is not just a 'male' thing. the public reacting to sexual attribute of an athlete of the opposite sex is _not_ just a 'male' or 'immature' thing... it is 'nature'. That is how the species manage to survive for that long... Note that all that horrible unwanted sexual attention does not seems to discourage Nascar male drivers from participating... | ||
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On July 29 2013 15:11 shmget wrote: Good, so your are establishing the point that the behavior is not just a 'male' thing. the public reacting to sexual attribute of an athlete of the opposite sex is _not_ just a 'male' or 'immature' thing... it is 'nature'. That is how the species manage to survive for that long... Note that all that horrible unwanted sexual attention does not seems to discourage Nascar male drivers from participating... This is a very broad generalisation. There is appreciating an athlete's looks, and then there is "lol nice tits" and "I'll do that". Are you sincerely making the argument that the latter two are perfectly mature and appropriate thing to say? | ||
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Hok
Canada42 Posts
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derthy
United States79 Posts
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shmget
118 Posts
On July 29 2013 15:27 levelping wrote: This is a very broad generalisation. There is appreciating an athlete's looks, and then there is "lol nice tits" and "I'll do that". Are you sincerely making the argument that the latter two are perfectly mature and appropriate thing to say? No, that is not my argument.... I will dispute however that such similar comment are absent of chat between girls of similar age. The main difference is that teenage boys find the 'courage' to say that on the internet under the cover of anonymity/pseudonym, when they would be terrified to simply say 'hello' to that same person in real life... My argument is that people complaining by proxy about so called 'unwanted' attention -- for 'caster' to boot -- is hypocritical at best. My argument is that people that claim that looks and other unrelated to the skill relevant to the performance at hand is only a factor for women are just mysandre. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17750 Posts
On July 29 2013 15:27 levelping wrote: This is a very broad generalisation. There is appreciating an athlete's looks, and then there is "lol nice tits" and "I'll do that". Are you sincerely making the argument that the latter two are perfectly mature and appropriate thing to say? you really think only guys say things like that? lol | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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ChosenBrad1322
United States562 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
For whatever reason females don't have the same interest in pro gaming. | ||
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Opera
France469 Posts
On July 29 2013 16:09 Gamegene wrote: i don't understand why there's a "need" for female casters, just like there's a "need" for female gamers, outside of obvious reasons. Because it's good for the community as a whole. It helps showing that nerds/gamers are not just a bunch of male teenagers living in their parents basement. There ARE female gamers. They are probably more than we think, even on RTS or FPS, but they tend to hide their gender because of the sexism of the community. By promoting the gaming community as a respectful one (and there is a LOT of work to do), the demographic of the community, and the community itself will evolve to one much more worth being a part of. Also, if you want eSports to become more mainstream, we need women to be a 50% part of it. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
On July 29 2013 16:28 papaz wrote: What's so strange that there are almost no female casters? There are almost no female progamers so why would there be any more female casters? For whatever reason females don't have the same interest in pro gaming. This. Why create issues where there are none? Any woman who puts enough work and dedication like the rest of the casters/players she WILL gets noticed, there simply aren't any and that's that. I swear topics like this are simply to stir a hornets nest of internet crusaders. If a woman encounters a stone wall of sexism in her path to becomming a caster/player, let her speak out and namedrop them. I'm tired of having others do the speaking for them.... | ||
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shmget
118 Posts
On July 29 2013 17:11 Opera wrote: Because it's good for the community as a whole. says who ? base on what metric of 'good' ? It helps showing that nerds/gamers are not just a bunch of male teenagers living in their parents basement. That is a sizeable part of the demographic, the extremely immature cross-section of them being used in this thread to pain everyone... that is a strawman. But then if people are ready to disregard logic for the sake of a political argument there is nothing you can do to reason... There ARE female gamers. They are probably more than we think, even on RTS or FPS, but they tend to hide their gender because of the sexism of the community. No one argued that there are _none_. Since I do not know what _you_ think or even less what _we/one_ think... I can't tell if there is more or less than that. All I can do is look at any pro/semi-pro-level competition and count... By promoting the gaming community as a respectful one (and there is a LOT of work to do), the demographic of the community, and the community itself will evolve to one much more worth being a part of. That is _your_ idea of what is worth being part of. Some may prefer meritocracy over affirmative action... to each its own. Also, if you want eSports to become more mainstream, we need women to be a 50% part of it. So soccer is not mainstream in europe right ? | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
On July 29 2013 17:11 Opera wrote: Because it's good for the community as a whole. It helps showing that nerds/gamers are not just a bunch of male teenagers living in their parents basement. There ARE female gamers. They are probably more than we think, even on RTS or FPS, but they tend to hide their gender because of the sexism of the community. By promoting the gaming community as a respectful one (and there is a LOT of work to do), the demographic of the community, and the community itself will evolve to one much more worth being a part of. Also, if you want eSports to become more mainstream, we need women to be a 50% part of it. Why are so many people hellbent on making esports main stream? You honestly want all the politics and other bullshit that comes with mainstream? You guys want to become alienated from the pros as they become more and more popular? You want BM and cursing to disappear? I've never understood this whole mainstream craze. Personally, I prefer a smaller scene, where good analyst and pro-player casters are still appreciated, and things like Gameheart don't butcher the ui to make it easier to watch for casual players. As long as I can watch players like Innovation and Flash straight up beast on nerds, I'm more than happy with the scene. I don't worry about all the outside bullshit like so many others seem to do. What happened to just loving starcraft? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 30 2013 02:51 Rhaegal wrote: Why are so many people hellbent on making esports main stream? You honestly want all the politics and other bullshit that comes with mainstream? You guys want to become alienated from the pros as they become more and more popular? You want BM and cursing to disappear? I've never understood this whole mainstream craze. Personally, I prefer a smaller scene, where good analyst and pro-player casters are still appreciated, and things like Gameheart don't butcher the ui to make it easier to watch for casual players. As long as I can watch players like Innovation and Flash straight up beast on nerds, I'm more than happy with the scene. I don't worry about all the outside bullshit like so many others seem to do. What happened to just loving starcraft? Thats fine if the people bringing you the starcraft 2 can all make a living on broadcasting the game, but right now many of them can't(or can't do it long term, ei: can't have kids or retire). Without the ability to do that, the long term prospects of SC2 is pretty limited and might be short lived. If your ok with that, great, but other folks would like to see it do more. Also, players like Flash and Innovation only became as good as they are because BW was main stream in Korea. They have female caster, avoid BM and cursing and try to make the game enjoyable for everyone. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
She had a really good voice, and was quite knowledgeable about the game, very confident and easy to listen to. It's unfortunate that she received very little attention, she was genuinely better than a number of male casters that rose to some prominence later on. Edit: Elaine Sun! | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
If a woman encounters a stone wall of sexism in her path to becomming a caster/player, let her speak out and namedrop them. I'm tired of having others do the speaking for them.... what is the wall in a path to diamond/master league? because I don't see many women there neither | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 30 2013 03:53 xuanzue wrote: what is the wall in a path to diamond/master league? because I don't see many women there neither Does your SC2 client tell you what gender your opponent is? Because I don't think I have that feature on my client. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On July 30 2013 03:53 xuanzue wrote: what is the wall in a path to diamond/master league? because I don't see many women there neither A substantial number of women choose gender-neutral IDs, honestly how would you tell if lIIIlllI is male or female? You can't, if anything, you just assume they are male. | ||
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