EPTThe 2014 NHL Season - Two Accounts, No Cups - Page 8
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On July 21 2013 22:52 QuanticHawk wrote: What??? Miller had one season where he was most people would consider him to be in the top 5 discussion and since then he's never been more than average or slightly above. I dont doubt that part of that reason is that there has been varying degrees of shit in fornt of him for a defense, but guys like Lu and Vokoun thrived for years in FL under much worse conditions. And while he did play great in the olympics, there were several other players who brought their A game to get them there thrived is a subjective term though. Playing in the weakest division in hockey, against other lame teams behind a porous defense that lets scrubs take 40 shots a game at you really does inflate your stats. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On July 22 2013 05:41 Sub40APM wrote: thrived is a subjective term though. Playing in the weakest division in hockey, against other lame teams behind a porous defense that lets scrubs take 40 shots a game at you really does inflate your stats. wasnt he the goalie for team 'Muricah at the Olympics?? Miller isnt bad. He's a douche. Hes the kind of guy to throw his d men under the bus after a bad goal. thats his problem. I mean hes probably top 10 in the league. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Thallis
United States314 Posts
Rinne Quick Rask Lehtonen Goalie numbers year to year can be deceiving due to a bunch of factors, but career numbers usually give a better picture. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32130 Posts
their stats while playing for other teams also indicate that lu and vokoun have had pretty solid careers and didnt just earn their keep turning aside 40 perimeter shots a night. when your defense blows, youre getting 40 a night and theyre quality 40s, not the kind of perimeter stuff that someone like rask sees more frequently since he has studs ahead of him. i think whenever youre talking top 5 current, youve gotten look at the last three years or so. that eliminates one year flash in the pan stuff, but it isnt too long that you get dudes like miller in there, who havent been that good in ages. If you just leave it to one year, esp in a lockout shortened year, you're gonna get a lot of flash in the pan stuff. so for me, the criteria for top 5 now is basically how theyve performed over the last 3 years. top 5 is really hard. hank and renne are 1-2 for sure. backbone of the franchise type of players. quick stunk this year, but was lights out last year and really good the year before that. he is somewhere 3-5. totally disagree about crawford. dude finally had a good season after several years of playing behind a crazy team. but the fact that ray emery posted similar stats makes me feel that has a lot more to do with the team than him. outside of vancover and boston as recent examples (Rask in in the top 5 for sure btw) , if your backup is posting similar stats, it is probably indicative of a good team rather than having two good goalies. maybe crawford does continue to evolve into a good goalie, but as it stands right now, he finally had a good year after being the weak link for the prior two. def not enough to be in a top 5 discussion anderson, while i think he has a lot of skill, he has never posted those amazing stats that he posted this year and a couple other times when he actually plays more than 30 games. he has a couple of above average-good full 60+ game season. I think that is the player he is if you saw him for 60 games this year instead of 22. for a fifth guy, that can honestly rotate between a bunch of dudes, but i kinda wanna say jimmy howard. he's posted some really nice stats the past two years, esp when you think of how much the redwings have slid as a team as of late, particularly in their own end. .920+ without Lidstrom. Pretty good in my book. there are a couple of other dudes who could be in the discussion at 5. niemi has been an under the radar good goalie for the past three years. he's got two .920+ season now, and his third season besides that was above average. i think if schneider was actually the starter in a full season rather than getting 30 some odd games each of the past three years, he'd probably be up there. i think he is that good but the proof isnt quite there yet. rask is very similar in development, just a little bit more ahead having started this year, and one full year, and poisting great stats in every situation. lu a year or two ago would be in this for sure, but i think he dipped quite a bit this year, though that could be just a symptom of having to deal with gillis' bullshit. so i'd say Lundqvist Renne Quick Rask Howard | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
Lundqvist Rask Rinne Quick the remaining goalie... I'd still take Luongo in a vaccuum, but obviously that's not the case. Crawford has a great team in front of him, so it's hard to tell with him. Schneider looks to be in the discussion if he plays a lot. I can't put Anderson in just because he was a backup for so long, and it might come crashing down at some point. Howard seems like above-average, but not top 5. The guys in the upper echelon are the type that can drastically change any game on a consistent basis. Outside of the top 4, I don't think you can say any goalie has that quality. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32130 Posts
honestly i thought price would have been there by now, but idk what the hell this past season was about. the team as a whole played well, but he did not. the last two years prior, i thought he stood on his head to support a shitty team. niemi isnt really young (oh god he is 2 years older than me fuck my life) but hes still fairly newish in the pros. he might be one of those late bloomer type of guys. i thought crawford was younger too, but he's 29 himself. honestly not high on him much at all. his glove looked like shit a lot in the playoffs and i think most people arent like timmy thomas and turn into studs late in their careers. but going back to anderson and awy frm this convo, if he plays 50+ this season and still posts a .920+, then we can start talking about him being legitimately good and yeah the bar for what is pretty good has raised. after the first lockout, if someone was above .910 or so, you could consider them to be upper half of goalies. unless someone regularly posts .920s now, they're not good, period. 13 guys this season hit or beat that mark; 11 last year. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
Anderson Lundquvist Rinne Rask Year to year this order can change but these are the top 5 in my books. Sam Gagner gets 3 years $14.4 Million ($4.8m AAV). Year two contains a full no trade/movement clause. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On July 22 2013 23:06 JimmiC wrote: Thats interesting. Who's everyones top 5 goalies in the league currently? Lunquist Rask Quick Anderson Crawford Its harder then you think. You look at the numbers and anderson seems like #1 before checking I wouldn't think that. And Quick is like #25 on Save %. So I'm not sure. Most of the big name goalies didn't perform super well last year. I'd pick Rinne over Crawford as well. Top four does seem pretty easy. | ||
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EiBmoZ
Canada235 Posts
an he only avg'd 0.75 giveaways / game far from a giveaway machine datsyuk avg'd more giveaways then doughty this year 0.81 / game | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On July 23 2013 06:46 EiBmoZ wrote: funny, drew doughty has the 5th best defensive stats among blueliners that played 40+ games in 2013 according to behindthenet.ca an he only avg'd 0.75 giveaways / game far from a giveaway machine datsyuk avg'd more giveaways then doughty this year 0.81 / game by every measure on behindthenet he is a worse player now than he was two years ago. in playoffs he is downright abysmal. | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
On July 23 2013 06:46 EiBmoZ wrote: funny, drew doughty has the 5th best defensive stats among blueliners that played 40+ games in 2013 according to behindthenet.ca an he only avg'd 0.75 giveaways / game far from a giveaway machine datsyuk avg'd more giveaways then doughty this year 0.81 / game While I agree that Doughty's stats prove him to be an elite player, comparing his turnovers to a forward doesn't really work. And it's doubly unfair because it's per game, instead of per 60 min. There's also a fair amount of rink bias for how turnovers/takeways are awarded. | ||
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EiBmoZ
Canada235 Posts
On July 23 2013 08:12 Sub40APM wrote: by every measure on behindthenet he is a worse player now than he was two years ago. in playoffs he is downright abysmal. based on what? his -8 vs chicago? gee lets fault someone for losing the the best team in the league this year an two of la's top defenseman were hurt quit it man b/c stats show you're talking out of your ass | ||
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EiBmoZ
Canada235 Posts
On July 23 2013 09:10 sharkeyanti wrote: While I agree that Doughty's stats prove him to be an elite player, comparing his turnovers to a forward doesn't really work. And it's doubly unfair because it's per game, instead of per 60 min. There's also a fair amount of rink bias for how turnovers/takeways are awarded. how many times has datsyuk won best defensive forward in the league? 3 times just using the comparison b/c everyone that knows anything about hockey knows datsyuk is one of the best defensive players in the league, an he happened to be right there in giveaways with doughty i'm just getting sick of that guy talking shit about doughty an everyone else on la for that matter, quick is good but he isn't the only think la has going for them. i'm done talking about this now, b/c it's clear now this other guys is going to talk shit about la an doughty without posting any kind of stats to back it up. PS la allowed the 3rd least amount of shots in 48 games this past season | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
On July 23 2013 09:37 EiBmoZ wrote: how many times has datsyuk won best defensive forward in the league? 3 times just using the comparison b/c everyone that knows anything about hockey knows datsyuk is one of the best defensive players in the league, an he happened to be right there in giveaways with doughty i'm just getting sick of that guy talking shit about doughty an everyone else on la for that matter, quick is good but he isn't the only think la has going for them. i'm done talking about this now, b/c it's clear now this other guys is going to talk shit about la an doughty without posting any kind of stats to back it up. PS la allowed the 3rd least amount of shots in 48 games this past season Again, I'm in agreement on the end product here. Datsyuk also is among the leaders in total giveaways, but that's because he has the puck a lot and has a lot of ice time. My point remains that giveaways/game are as flawed a statistic as any out there. Using Datsyuk as a benchmark still means nothing. Players like Datsyuk are more likely to be credited with a "giveaway" due to playstyle as well, as he tends to hold possession of the puck instead of dumping if pressured. | ||
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EiBmoZ
Canada235 Posts
On July 23 2013 10:37 sharkeyanti wrote: Again, I'm in agreement on the end product here. Datsyuk also is among the leaders in total giveaways, but that's because he has the puck a lot and has a lot of ice time. My point remains that giveaways/game are as flawed a statistic as any out there. Using Datsyuk as a benchmark still means nothing. Players like Datsyuk are more likely to be credited with a "giveaway" due to playstyle as well, as he tends to hold possession of the puck instead of dumping if pressured. la had the best puck possession numbers as a team in the league http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=201213&sit=5v5&sort=CFPCT&sortdir=DESC an doughty also avg's more then 6min of ice time / game then datsyuk, an doughty was 4th in minutes played this season not putting datsyuk down b/c he makes up for it with 56 takeaways that lead the league with toews an the only reason i'm even talking about the giveaways stat is b/c that guy called doughty a giveaway machine, which should be reserved for phaneuf @ 53 giveaways now if you want to see how doughty's defensive numbers stack up to other blueliners you can check out the stats, which i've already posted, which shows doughty as 4th http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f4=D&f7=40-&c=0 1 3 5 4 6 7 8 13 14 29 30 32 33 34 45 46 63 67 doughty night in an night out sees every other teams top line, an he still has the 4th best defensive numbers | ||
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